Realistically, how is Microsoft expected to compete with Sony next generation? Can they?

[Iwao]

I'd be surprised if we saw Horizon before Motorsport, Horizon builds on top of Forzatech, so you'd expect Playground to want to wait until Turn 10 had got the engine up and running. Plus, we've seen Motorsport but not Horizon. It'd be odd to show off the game that was further out first.

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Good point about seeing the game further out first, but they tend to announce Horizon games the E3 of the same year it's releasing, so they may be holding out to announce that next year for release next year. I would have expected the Playground team to have been working on the next Forza Horizon game since 2018. We got those rumours it was going to be set in Japan. I can't see them waiting until 2021 to begin working on the next game.

Factors suggesting FH5 won't be 2021

FH builds off Forzatech so motorsport normally goes first
Playground working on Fable (yes two teams but maybe they need to prioritise Fable)
We've not seen anything of FH in MS events
FH released more recently
FH4 being updated around XSX launch suggests not to expect FH5 soon
Spencer's comments about two years cross gen suggesting no XSX-only until 2H 2022

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Some very good points, but not being present at MS events doesn't seem to matter because Forza Horizon is usually announced at the time of E3 the same year of release.

 

[space_nut]

I was away doing stuff until recently, but just a few friends I have in the industry working on games for both platforms and a few other insiders I know. More than one source. The basic gist of what I've heard is the PS5 is really good to work on for games exclusive to it, but in practice the specs kinda' get weird for multi-platform games. If multi-plat the usage of PS5's SSD systems does help a bit, but not to the fullest, and I've heard some dev friends talk a bit about the struggle PS5 has for 1080p games running 60fps still, while Xbox X doesn't have the same problem and can push above that even in most cases. Of course, this is a small selection of people I've talked to, there's more to it, but I hear something that's going to make this generation a bit interesting is the PS5 & Xbox X's focus in other areas are going to make multi-platform games "interesting" this generation, to the point we may actually see less of them and far more games coming to one platform or the other (plus PC), as it's actually kinda' hard to make a game optimal for both platforms due to where they're a bit differently focused.

But again, this is coming from the small pool of developers I've heard this from, there may be unique challenges to the games they're specifically making in this area and that isn't lost on me.

That said, I am going to dip on this as I just like sharing a bit of what I hear, I'm not super invested, but I knew something I could share could make this discussion a bit more interesting to where current feelings lie. I can promise you I'm not saying this based off of nothing, There's probably more on the tech side specifics I'm spacing on here/don't fully understand myself, if I'll be honest. But things will be reflective here when both consoles are out and multi-platform games are out there.

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That's great to hear! :) I'm excited to see the XSX in action

 

[Iron Eddie]

Good point about seeing the game further out first, but they tend to announced Horizon games the E3 of the same year it's releasing, so they may be holding out to announce that next year for release next year. I would have expected the Playground team to have been working on the next Forza Horizon game since 2018. We got those rumours it was going to be set in Japan. I can't see them waiting until 2021 to begin working on the next game.

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I honestly think they need to take a bit of a break from Horizon. Put Forza Motorsport out in 2021 and maybe reboot Horizon as well and put it out in 2022. I think both will turn into GaaS models anyways, it kind of makes sense to. There is probably little chance of Playground's Fable coming out soon but late 2021 would be great timing but I'm expecting late 2022.

 

[Axel Stone]

I honestly think they need to take a bit of a break from Horizon. Put Forza Motorsport out in 2021 and maybe reboot Horizon as well and put it out in 2022. I think both will turn into GaaS models anyways, it kind of makes sense to. There is probably little chance of Playground's Fable coming out soon but late 2021 would be great timing but I'm expecting late 2022.

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Motorsport makes perfect sense as a GaaS, but not Horizon, IMO. The location is a huge part of what makes each Horizon game feel unique.

 

[dlauv]

I think for the international market, they're hoping xCloud will help reintroduce the Xbox ecosystem. We know that Korea had more usage in the Beta than the US. Fiber optic is more common overseas from what I've seen.

 

[Iron Eddie]

Motorsport makes perfect sense as a GaaS, but not Horizon, IMO. The location is a huge part of what makes each Horizon game feel unique.

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I guess you're right, doesn't really make sense to add other city's on the main map. But I do hope they take a bit of break, I feel kind of fatigued playing FH4.

 

[MrKlaw]

Yeah, sure, I can see that, but Dusk Golem has chosen to not give a good explanation and has since bailed

Edit: Oof, that timing


Thank you for responding. Is there anything more you could share about why the PS5 struggles at 1080p 60FPS while XSX doesn't? Have any of your sources said that the GPU gap is larger than the spec sheets would imply? Why would such devs struggle with 1080p 60FPS when Deathloop and GT7 run at native 4K 60FPS? Both even supposedly have ray tracing on top. Furthermore, Matt also asked why you would say this earlier, implying he didn't hear the same story.

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possible the narrow vs wide impacting some engines more than others? Although normally you'd think faster, fewer CUs should be fine - lots of PC engines aren't that well multithreaded - although thats CPU - but if your GPU job system isn't similarly well scaled to go wide you would perhaps think just making them work faster would be good.

Or ram?

I can't see anything in the high level overview of both systems that suggests what would make PS5 'difficult' particularly. Fascinating if true. Also fascinating if not true, and its just some developers having issues.

 

[litebrite]

Throughout the whole current gen Microsoft has not created one new AAA ip that sold well where they can build on

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Sea of Thieves

 

[Iron Eddie]

Sea of Thieves

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I'm not sure if it actually sold well though. Game Pass has certainly helped keep the exposure high. I just don't know if we will ever see a Sea of Thieves 2?

 

[Uzupedro]

So who is verifying Dusk on the PS5 info? I am really curious about this.

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.
Not even about the XSX performing better part, but the ''PS5 struggling with 1080P 60FPS''.
This is bad stuff if true.

 

[Axel Stone]

I'm not sure if it actually sold well though. Game Pass has certainly helped keep the exposure high. I just don't know if we will ever see a Sea of Thieves 2?

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It seems to have done great on Steam.

 

[Iron Eddie]

It seems to have done great on Steam.

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Willing to bet that Xbox + Steam sales alone sold more than FF7R has as of this moment.

We may never see a SoT2 but I doubt that has anything to do with sales. GAAS games don't need sequels super often.

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Ok, so they have 1 new ip they can possibly build on.

 

[JoJoBae]

I'm not sure if it actually sold well though. Game Pass has certainly helped keep the exposure high. I just don't know if we will ever see a Sea of Thieves 2?

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Willing to bet that Xbox + Steam sales alone sold more than FF7R has as of this moment.

We may never see a SoT2 but I doubt that has anything to do with sales. GAAS games don't need sequels super often.

 

[Toriko]

Checks out with Sony trying to moneyhat everything in existence to ensure Digital Foundry can't compare multiplats.

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These console warriors are the worst. Just spoils discussions here with inane conspiracy theories.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Motorsport makes perfect sense as a GaaS, but not Horizon, IMO. The location is a huge part of what makes each Horizon game feel unique.

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I agree make Motorsport a platform and use it for the whole gen with updates .
In fact that is how i think both MS and Sony will do for there racing games but Horizon is different unless you add a whole different country \area by update .

 

[litebrite]

I'm not sure if it actually sold well though. Game Pass has certainly helped keep the exposure high. I just don't know if we will ever see a Sea of Thieves 2?

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Sea of Thieves was already a big success that's only gotten bigger due to it launching on Steam. It may not get a sequel due to it being a platform that get's constant updates as well as an XSX version.

 

[dep9000]

So who is verifying Dusk on the PS5 info? I am really curious about this.

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He's been right on enough stuff that he deserves the benefit of the doubt. With news that Ono is leaving Capcom, he appears to have been right again.

I know it's not what you want to hear, but there may be some validity to it. We'll see how this shakes out in practice though.

 

[Alek]

I think you make a reasonable point in the case of a studio like Compulsion, or The Initiative... but you're mentioning other studios that are not new. 343i and The Coalition have both developed two games already. Rare are celebrating their 35th anniversary. Obsidian and inXile have been around for 17 years.

Now, it's possible that some of those studios staffing up for bigger game development will come with it's own risks and pitfalls, but it's not like these are newborn babies learning to crawl before they can walk, lol.

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My point is that it takes a long long time to produce a consistently high pedigree of games. It feels like Rare have only fairly recently been been taking the risks they needed to take, and making the games they really wanted to, and much off the staff at Rare are not the same as the staff that were there 10 or even 5 years ago. It's still a studio that's figuring out what type of games they're making, and how to be consistently successful with their titles.

343i are still figuring what they're doing with the Halo series, which I know sounds odd because it's been a long time now, but if you look at the reception of recent Halo titles, and Infinite, its certainly true. They've neither figured out their own formula, or successfully replicated Bungie's.

The reason there's such a barrier to making successful games as a studio is because it's not just about putting 400 talented people together in a room. Many of Sony's studios have been producing middling titles for over 10 years before they struck success, and those middling titles aren't selling systems.

If you look at Guerilla games as an example, while I'll admit that Killzone 2 was a great game, Killzone 1, 3 and Shadowfall are all either average, or rather bad (Shadowfall especially). Even Killzone 2's sales figures are only modest.

It's only because Sony funded that studio and allowed them to make mistakes for literally 20 years, that they were able to get to Horizon Zero Dawn, a game that's received universal critical acclaim since its launch, and sold more than 10 million units. That's an investment from 20 years ago finally paying off, and now Guerrilla are leading Sony's push into the PS5 supporting other studios such as Kojima productions with the decima engine. That's a 20 year investment that's finally paying off for Playstation and that's the reality for a lot of these investments. Studios like 343i still need their 'Horizon Zero Dawn' or 'Uncharted 2' moment, and it usually takes more than a few years to get there.

 

[Deleted member 29249]

If the Ps5 rumor is true would make the Avenger stuff make sense, next gen worse version will be the Ps5 so gotta drop them hats to get some sales.

 

[PoeticProse22]

The info about power seems nonsensical. The specs are known at this point. The difference this gen is considerably smaller than the difference between the Pro and X. Of course third party games will, by and large, perform better on the Series X, but these consoles are too similarly specced to produce a massive performance delta. Moreover, I'm confident we'll never see a game struggle to hit 1080/60 on the PS5.

 

[Uzupedro]

He's been right on enough stuff that he deserves the benefit of the doubt. With news that Ono is leaving Capcom, he appears to have been right again.

I know it's not what you want to hear, but there may be some validity to it. We'll see how this shakes out in practice though.

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It's not a matter of trust, we are curious precisely because Dusk have a good track record, and of course we don't want to hear that, how anyone would like to hear that a console is struggling with 1080P lol

 

[iareec]

From 2018 to 2020 don't expect already top tier games like Playstation has. Xbox will have more games (thankfully) and we just should wait if they are going to be good or not. Same for Playstation, PS4 was amazing but things can change for bad or good.

 

[Conor]

I think 343 are still there and their new trailer is showing that. So that's a big studio in the position I described, and it's their flagship studio really. I think Playgrounds new studio is in the same position, I think Compulsion are in that position, Undead Labs too and I think the Coalition will be in that position if they ever step away from Gears of War. I think Rare are still growing too, Sea of Thieves wasn't exactly a hit on release, and they've turned it around which is great, but I don't think they're in a position where they have a reputation for putting out consistent high quality titles.

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I think it's a bit premature to make a call on the quality of Halo Infinite. The majority of Halo fans seem very excited by what was shown in terms of gameplay, myself included, despite the poor visuals in the reveal. I don't really understand why The Coalition would stop being a good studio if they didn't work on Gears. Both games they've shipped have been technically impressive and have been received well.

 

[Alek]

I agree with a lot of what you said but the problem for Microsoft has always been they directly compete against Sony. Nintendo found out years ago they simply cannot or don't want to and rely far more on their own ip's to keep them relative. Microsoft and Sony have always fought over the same audience but it is the global brand that keeps Sony competitive even when they fail (such as the PS3).

It would take something monumental such as buying Ubisoft to turn the tides. I don't think it is wise to continue this pissing content with third party deals. All those games they had in their favor such as Bioshock, Mass Effect, Oblivion, they don't own those. Which brings us back to your point and that is nurturing your own studios. Which again like you said takes time.

So here we are about to start another genertion with Microsoft looking like they are not prepared. Momentum is key and Halo Infinite is doing the exact opposite. Throughout the whole current gen Microsoft has not created one new AAA ip that sold well where they can build on and all those resources put into Halo Infinite looks like wasted opportunity.

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I don't disagree with you. In general it feels like this entire generation has been a wasted opportunity for Microsoft. They had the smaller market share but they could have spent the time taking risks and developing their internal studios. Now it looks like we're going to see another hardware cycle before most of their studios can really put their best foot forward.

I think Halo Infinite is finally 343 doing what they should have done with Halo 10 years ago, and looking at how they can meaningfully evolve the series, but that's not an instantaneous process and it's unfortunate that Halo 5 wasn't that game for them, as it would have allowed them to make mistakes, then go into this upcoming generation from a really strong position. As is I think we're going to see Microsoft's studios making big mistakes for the next 5 or so years, but so long as they're making the right moves to evolve their studios and games for the better that will lead to better titles in the long term.

As is, I expect Microsoft to see fruits of their investments and closer to the end of the next generation of hardware, but if they play that correctly they can finally carry some momentum into the next cycle, in 5 or so years time. I agree that the third party pissing contest needs to stop, I think as we both discussed in the other thread, it never works out in Microsoft's favour, and while Sony will take advantage of their position, third party exclusivity rarely benefits Microsoft to anywhere near the same degree because in reality, those deals come cheap for Sony as the market leader.

 

[MrKlaw]

I mean, saying "pay 10 bucks, here's 100 games to play" can be a hell of a hook, especially to those that aren't heavily invested in an ecosystem yet.

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Slightly less of a hook for a brand new $400-500 console when all of those games except a couple are XB1 games. Still a good value but right now gamepass is more a value for XB1 buyers than next gen, unless you're taking a longer term view of things

 

[dlauv]

Maybe Dusk meant 1800p.

 

[Iron Eddie]

These corporate astroturfers and warriors are the worst. Just spoils discussions here with inane conspiracy theories.

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Don't act for a second you're so innocent. A topic about The Medium you only expressed how you can't wait for it to come to the PS5. So how do you propose Microsoft to compete with Sony if you just want every game to come to the PS5?

I'm noticing what happens quite frequently in Microsoft/Xbox threads, many just don't have any interest but feel compelled to post that really isn't condusive to what the topic is.

I don't disagree with you. In general it feels like this entire generation has been a wasted opportunity for Microsoft. They had the smaller market share but they could have spent the time taking risks and developing their internal studios. Now it looks like we're going to see another hardware cycle before most of their studios can really put their best foot forward.

I think Halo Infinite is finally 343 doing what they should have done with Halo 10 years ago, and looking at how they can meaningfully evolve the series, but that's not an instantaneous process and it's unfortunate that Halo 5 wasn't that game for them, as it would have allowed them to make mistakes, then go into this upcoming generation from a really strong position. As is I think we're going to see Microsoft's studios making big mistakes for the next 5 or so years, but so long as they're making the right moves to evolve their studios and games for the better that will lead to better titles in the long term.

As is, I expect Microsoft to see fruits of their investments and closer to the end of the next generation of hardware, but if they play that correctly they can finally carry some momentum into the next cycle, in 5 or so years time. I agree that the third party pissing contest needs to stop, I think as we both discussed in the other thread, it never works out in Microsoft's favour, and while Sony will take advantage of their position, third party exclusivity rarely benefits Microsoft to anywhere near the same degree because in reality, those deals come cheap for Sony as the market leader.

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It also feels like they spent too much time on the hardware and BC and neglected what should have been the bigger priority, getting quality games out there.

 

[Alek]

I think it's a bit premature to make a call on the quality of Halo Infinite. The majority of Halo fans seem very excited by what was shown in terms of gameplay, myself included, despite the poor visuals in the reveal. I don't really understand why The Coalition would. stop being a good studio if they didn't work on Gears. Both games they've shipped have been technically impressive and have been received well.

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I personally think Halo looks fine, but I think it's a far cry from the flagship title that it used to be. In any case, the point isn't really that it looks good, or bad, it's that Infinite finally feels like 343 making large innovations for the series (especially with the 'open world'), but the reality is that you rarely strike gold on your first attempt. So in all likelihood, Infinite will be an on-going learning experience for the studio, a game that hopefully improves substantially over time.

 

[Dusk Golem]

I'll clarify a point, I'm speaking from a small pool of people's experiences. The 1080p60fps comment comes from one game in particular, it's not a detail I made up and is based on something factual, but I also could see some potential reasons behind it. IE, the engine for example is a developer-specific engine (homemade engine), maybe something about that engine works better for Xbox X than PS5 specifically or something.

That isn't the only dev I've talked to a bit about this, but the one where that comment came from. I meant to use it as an example of a singular case, but I should've clarified that better. As I said earlier, I realize I'm speaking to a small subset of all people, and different devs may have different experiences. I've even specifically heard since last March that the PS5 is pretty simple to develop for and a big advantage to it is one can develop very quickly & efficiently for it with less concern to certain time-consuming processes they previously had to optimize for (specifically with loading is what I've heard most), but an issue is the two consoles have some very different strengths, so optimizing for both takes a bit more work and "personalization" for both platforms. There probably will be some interesting development on that front as a result.

If I made anything confusing, I do apologize. I more meant to comment passively but I unintentionally made it more about what I said, and that's on me. I still have heard what I've heard, but I want to make it clear I'm speaking not as someone who has specifically gone out of his way to collect data from multiple people in a research fashion, just someone with some friends/acquaintances who are making games for PS5 & Xbox X right now and their personal experiences. And I thought that tidbit would be interesting to throw out as I tend to think many are being a bit too down on Xbox, but I think the climate when some more details come out will be more interestingly even between the two than so one-sided.

 

[Scottoest]

My point is that it takes a long long time to produce a consistently high pedigree of games. It feels like Rare have only fairly recently been been taking the risks they needed to take, and making the games they really wanted to, and much off the staff at Rare are not the same as the staff that were there 10 or even 5 years ago. It's still a studio that's figuring out what type of games they're making, and how to be consistently successful with their titles.

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Sure, but that kind of churn is pretty normal for any studio that's been around as long as them. They were "victims of their own success" to a degree, as a lot of people from the Nintendo era left to go start their own studios.

But even modern Rare, aside from the brief sojourn in the Kinect wilderness, never really stopped making creatively interesting, "risky" games. Viva Pinata, Kameo, Sea of Thieves - even their Banjo game became a really neat and underappreciated concept around building vehicles to achieve goals.

Rare's post-Nintendo problem was always that their games didn't sell well enough, and the studio culture seemed like it went through some serious growing pains as they became bigger. In the last ~3-4 years, it feels like they've emerged out the other end of that tunnel, and seem like they are in a really positive place.

 

[litebrite]

I personally think Halo looks fine, but I think it's a far cry from the flagship title that it used to be. In any case, the point isn't really that it looks good, or bad, it's that Infinite finally feels like 343 making large innovations for the series (especially with the 'open world') design, but the reality is that you rarely strike gold on your first attempt. So in all likelihood, Infinite will be an on-going learning experience for the studio, a game that hopefully improves substantially over time.

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Yes but you're jumping the gun because the game hasn't even been released yet, so we have no reception to assess as of yet or any idea of what needs to be improved besides the visuals and 343i is well aware of that and hopefully will be addressing that before the game releases.

 

[Scottoest]

I'll clarify a point, I'm speaking from a small pool of people's experiences. The 1080p60fps comment comes from one game in particular, it's not a detail I made up and is based on something factual, but I also could see some potential reasons behind it. IE, the engine for example is a developer-specific engine (homemade engine), maybe something about that engine works better for Xbox X than PS5 specifically or something.

That isn't the only dev I've talked to a bit about this, but the one where that comment came from. I meant to use it as an example of a singular case, but I should've clarified that better. As I said earlier, I realize I'm speaking to a small subset of all people, and different devs may have different experiences. I've even specifically heard since last March that the PS5 is pretty simple to develop for, but an issue is the two consoles have some very different strengths, so optimizing for both takes a bit more work and "personalization" for both platforms. There probably will be some interesting development on that front as a result.

If I made anything confusing, I do apologize. I more meant to comment passively but I unintentionally made it more about what I said, and that's on me. I still have heard what I've heard, but I want to make it clear I'm speaking not as someone who has specifically gone out of his way to collect data from multiple people in a research fashion, just someone with some friends/acquaintances who are making games for PS5 & Xbox X right now and their personal experiences. And I thought that tidbit would be interesting to throw out as I tend to think many are being a bit too down on Xbox, bu I think the climate when some more details come out will be more interestingly even between the two than so one-sided.

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Don't worry about it. I think anyone being reasonable understood you were just relaying a few anecdotal accounts given to you, not declaring some kind of universal scoop or truth about either console.

People are just jumping on it because of which direction your particular anectode cuts.

 

[JasoNsider]

Good grief @ this power difference talk.

why would you say this

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^

Anyway, actually on topic - I think we've all been saying/thinking similar things recently, which is that all these companies are just looking to profit and MS has found a new avenue for that through Game Pass. I'm still skeptical about its growth if it can't actually compete on the same terms with PS5 and Switch, but there's a reasonable argument to be made that all 3 major platform holders will be extremely successful in the next 5 years. We really are looking at an era where there are no clear "losers" (except for maybe Stadia)

 

[Toriko]

Don't act for a second you're so innocent. A topic about The Medium you only expressed how you can't wait for it to come to the PS5. So how do you propose Microsoft to compete with Sony if you just want every game to come to the PS5?

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GTFO with this bullshit.how does me being happy a timed exclusive eventually coming to another platform the same thing. MS will get 99 percent of the third parties just like this gen so they will be able to compete just fine.

The other poster says they are nabbing times exclusives because sony wants to look good in DF videos. Wtf is that conspiracy theory.

Stop being insecure about plastic boxes.

 

[Alek]

Sure, but that kind of churn is pretty normal for any studio that's been around as long as them. They were "victims of their own success" to a degree, as a lot of people from the Nintendo era left to go start their own studios.

But even modern Rare, aside from the brief sojourn in the Kinect wilderness, never really stopped making creatively interesting, "risky" games. Viva Pinata, Kameo, Sea of Thieves - even their Banjo game became a really neat and underappreciated concept around building vehicles to achieve goals.

Rare's post-Nintendo problem was always that their games didn't sell well enough, and the studio culture seemed like it went through some serious growing pains as they became bigger. In the last ~3-4 years, it feels like they've emerged out the other end of that tunnel, and seem like they are in a really positive place.

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I do agree with you and I think Rare are really close to that turning point but I think they need to demonstrate that with a follow up to Sea of Thieves. Irrespective of what it is now, Sea of Thieves wasn't a hit at launch and some of the success appears to have stemmed from the viral nature of its gameplay, and I worry that that could be something that ends up being difficult for the studio to replicate.

If you compare to a title like Naughtydog, their success is much more of a known quality. They invest in big budget, cinematic experiences. They know what the conditions are for their games to succeed, and they know how to fulfil them consistently. I'm not yet convinced that Rare are there.

 

[dobahking91]

Someone should make a thread.
PS5 have problems doing 1080@60fps

 

[Hermii]

Someone should make a thread.
PS5 have problems doing 1080@60fps

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Which would be locked in an instant due to console warring.

 

[Alek]

Yes but you're jumping the gun because the game hasn't even been released yet, so we have no reception to assess as of yet or any idea of what needs to be improved besides the visuals and 343i is well aware of that and hopefully will be addressing that before the game releases.

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I just think it's hard to make good and successful games, and unless a studio has really figured out what makes their brand successful and how to replicate it, it's more reliable to assume that their game won't find universal success. You're completely right that we need to wait and see, though, it could be that Infinite is 343's turning point, and honestly I think it will be, I just think as a GaaS game that's likely being pushed out quite early to coincide with the XSX launch, it's going to take a fair bit more time to get there.

 

[Conor]

I personally think Halo looks fine, but I think it's a far cry from the flagship title that it used to be. In any case, the point isn't really that it looks good, or bad, it's that Infinite finally feels like 343 making large innovations for the series (especially with the 'open world'), but the reality is that you rarely strike gold on your first attempt. So in all likelihood, Infinite will be an on-going learning experience for the studio, a game that hopefully improves substantially over time.

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I understand where you're coming from but I personally see Halo Infinte as the culmination of the learning process they already went through with Halo 4 and 5. It seems like they are returning to Halo's roots if anything, after trying to take the series in a different direction, which didn't work. For sure it's going to be a learning process in how to run a game as a service and keep people engaged for years, but they've already learned lessons from what I can see.

A lot of the studios have also been talking up the benefits of sharing information, learnings and technology with each other across the first party organisation. I don't know how much substance there is in that though.

 

[litebrite]

I just think it's hard to make good and successful games, and unless a studio has really figured out what makes their brand successful and how to replicate it, it's more reliable to assume that their game won't find universal success. You're completely right that we need to wait and see, though, it could be that Infinite is 343's turning point, and honestly I think it will be, I just think as a GaaS game that's likely being pushed out quite early to coincide with the XSX launch, it's going to take a fair bit more time to get there.

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There's no question as Halo Infinite will be a platform that's on a new engine that will get constant updates and the engine evolves that the game will improve over time regardless of how it releases. However Halo Infinite is very likely to have the highest engagement of any Halo game due to it's availability and access on Xbox One S, Xbox One X, Xbox Series S, Xbox Series X, PC (Windows Store, Steam), Game Pass on PC and console, and XCloud and crossplay between all of them.

 

[rntongo]

I think for the international market, they're hoping xCloud will help reintroduce the Xbox ecosystem. We know that Korea had more usage in the Beta than the US. Fiber optic is more common overseas from what I've seen.

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South Korea has arguably the best high speed internet access in the world. Not a very good example for the rest of the world. Many parts of the world with huge numbers of gamers don't have the best high speed internet access.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I'll clarify a point, I'm speaking from a small pool of people's experiences. The 1080p60fps comment comes from one game in particular, it's not a detail I made up and is based on something factual, but I also could see some potential reasons behind it. IE, the engine for example is a developer-specific engine (homemade engine), maybe something about that engine works better for Xbox X than PS5 specifically or something.

That isn't the only dev I've talked to a bit about this, but the one where that comment came from. I meant to use it as an example of a singular case, but I should've clarified that better. As I said earlier, I realize I'm speaking to a small subset of all people, and different devs may have different experiences. I've even specifically heard since last March that the PS5 is pretty simple to develop for and a big advantage to it is one can develop very quickly & efficiently for it with less concern to certain time-consuming processes they previously had to optimize for (specifically with loading is what I've heard most), but an issue is the two consoles have some very different strengths, so optimizing for both takes a bit more work and "personalization" for both platforms. There probably will be some interesting development on that front as a result.

If I made anything confusing, I do apologize. I more meant to comment passively but I unintentionally made it more about what I said, and that's on me. I still have heard what I've heard, but I want to make it clear I'm speaking not as someone who has specifically gone out of his way to collect data from multiple people in a research fashion, just someone with some friends/acquaintances who are making games for PS5 & Xbox X right now and their personal experiences. And I thought that tidbit would be interesting to throw out as I tend to think many are being a bit too down on Xbox, but I think the climate when some more details come out will be more interestingly even between the two than so one-sided.

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Thanks for the update .
Yeah i can understand a homemade engine having trouble .
Yeah the console do have very different strengths when looking at them as a whole .

 

[Kapten]

Someone should make a thread.
One game, from one studio, with a custom engine they themselves built has problems with 1080p60fps on PS5.

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Fixed it for you.

 

[Merc]

Why is that? They are a global company.

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Because there an American company and the United States is the biggest market. Microsoft is BIG in the United States besides Xbox and have a good culture here.

 

[sleepr]

If the Ps5 rumor is true would make the Avenger stuff make sense, next gen worse version will be the Ps5 so gotta drop them hats to get some sales.

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The avengers PS5 version is confirmed to be 4K60.

 

[rntongo]

Someone should make a thread.
PS5 have problems doing 1080@60fps

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I think he clarified that it was just one developer with a specific engine that made it harder for the PS5. He was just trying to show an example of how things will be when it comes to multiplats.

 

[AllBizness]

Trust me, it's not. I have no real tail in this race as I'm not planning to pick up either platform in the long-run, I'm primarily a PC gamer and pick consoles up down the line (and will end up getting both when budget and interest allows it).

PS5 is easier to develop for overall and Sony has very talented studios behind it that will get the most out of the PS5, that I have no doubts about either, but this topic is about how Microsoft will compete so what I'm focused on. But when it comes to cross-platform games, they will end up performing a lot better on Xbox X. Xbox X will have the tech advantage over PS5, and it will be more than marginable.

A lot of the time this stuff sounds fake, but it keeps being said for reason. Months ago I and others were trying to tell people the price for both consoles weren't set and both Sony and Microsoft were waiting for the other to pull the trigger before prices would be announced. Many back then said the same thing you just did, "of course they know the price of the platforms," and yes they do have a range of how low they can go and how high they think they can get away with, but here we are months later and look where we're at. Truth is stranger than fiction sometimes.

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Is your source an indy dev or AAA dev? How can you verify Series X will be cheaper? Devs don't know that stuff.

 

[brokenswiftie]

I'll clarify a point, I'm speaking from a small pool of people's experiences. The 1080p60fps comment comes from one game in particular, it's not a detail I made up and is based on something factual, but I also could see some potential reasons behind it. IE, the engine for example is a developer-specific engine (homemade engine), maybe something about that engine works better for Xbox X than PS5 specifically or something.

That isn't the only dev I've talked to a bit about this, but the one where that comment came from. I meant to use it as an example of a singular case, but I should've clarified that better. As I said earlier, I realize I'm speaking to a small subset of all people, and different devs may have different experiences. I've even specifically heard since last March that the PS5 is pretty simple to develop for and a big advantage to it is one can develop very quickly & efficiently for it with less concern to certain time-consuming processes they previously had to optimize for (specifically with loading is what I've heard most), but an issue is the two consoles have some very different strengths, so optimizing for both takes a bit more work and "personalization" for both platforms. There probably will be some interesting development on that front as a result.

If I made anything confusing, I do apologize. I more meant to comment passively but I unintentionally made it more about what I said, and that's on me. I still have heard what I've heard, but I want to make it clear I'm speaking not as someone who has specifically gone out of his way to collect data from multiple people in a research fashion, just someone with some friends/acquaintances who are making games for PS5 & Xbox X right now and their personal experiences. And I thought that tidbit would be interesting to throw out as I tend to think many are being a bit too down on Xbox, but I think the climate when some more details come out will be more interestingly even between the two than so one-sided.

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So is the Series X significantly more powerful than PS5 like you said?
or it is just for this one engine?

 

[Dusk Golem]

Is your source an indy dev or AAA dev? How can you verify Series X will be cheaper? Devs don't know that stuff.

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Okay, so I guess I'll just come clean here... I'm talking about Resident Evil Village. The game's terrible performance at the PS5 reveal event with the terrible frame rate present in the trailer was kinda' the current status of the game on PS5 as of a few months ago. The thing is, apparently the game runs perfectly on Xbox X, they've been having some troubles getting the frame rate stable on PS5 (which as Sony had a rule to record the PS5 event gameplay on PS5, lead to the weird frame showing in that trailer). But it's running in the RE Engine, and they'll be making more optimizations to take advantage of the game there.

The price stuff is from different sources, I said that earlier but will clarify here.

 

[Sia]

I think probably the Xbox has a traditional pc friendly architecture and I am betting the ps5 has a few quirks that are unique to it. For multiplats I am guessing a few ps5 tech features will go largely unused making the power gap seem larger