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dex3108

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,004
Well there it is
Q) So that means it's not going to launch on Steam or GoG? What gives?

A) Yes, Rebel Galaxy Outlaw is going to be exclusively on the Epic Store for a while. Eventually it'll make its way elsewhere. (Console releases are not tied to this)

Q) You're being a coy bastard. How long, and don't be a weasel.

A) 12 months from launch.

Q) Exclusives are anti-consumer, why would you do this? (you monster)

A) OK, so that's a little complicated. And our answer is long-winded. Bear with us.

So, before Valve and the 70/30 split it was pretty darn rough to be an indie (both in terms of royalty share and in terms of the ability to sell things without a publisher). We can all thank Valve for using their leverage to make that happen, and usher in the era we have now. We think it's safe to say that a large percentage of the games made today wouldn't exist without it.

Epic is using their leverage to push that even farther, to 88/12. That's another whole strata of developers who can survive.

Would we like that to become the new standard?
Yes.

Can that be done without leverage?
No.

Is some form of exclusive content required to get the momentum to make that happen?
Yes.

And we're willing to get on board to make that happen. The only way this gets any traction is with some exclusive content and we're willing to be one of the canaries in the mineshaft.

Do we hope there is a big upside for us? Sure. That'd be amazing. But we also hope this is the start of establishing a new standard.

Q) OK, maybe this is good for developers, but how is this good for customers? (still a monster)

A) From our standpoint as customers, a curated store with a more limited selection of quality games is a plus. Having the ability for you to share your emails with us (optionally) so we can communicate directly with you is hopefully also a plus for you. Competition for Steam is a plus. And in the longer term, achieving Epic's goals on the royalty front means more developers succeeding and surviving and making more good stuff. That's a longer play, but we think it's still meaningful.

Moreover, it doesn't remove Steam or other stores from the equation. We've all got big Steam libraries that aren't going anywhere. Yes, this is exclusive right now, but that's all sort of bound up in the store's launch and this specific point in time.

https://rebel-galaxy.com/rebel-galaxy-outlaw-launching-on-epic-games-store-qa/

Tnx sk2k
 

Arulan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,571
It's time to vote with our wallets and refuse to support these bullshit practices on our platform.
 

Faabulous

Member
Oct 27, 2017
255
Usual Steam apologist and heavy user here:

I see nothing wrong with this. It's fine. Steam should feel the pressure and maybe cut out some better deals to devs.

I don't know if this is enough, since those devs taking the exclusivity might feel the heat in the form of reduced sales, but I'm all in for more competition on PC space.

The only thing that irks me a little about this is the 'curated' thing. Are you pro developers or against them? If you are pro-devs why would you arbitrarily limit who gets on your platform? To me it looks like they are more pro-'our friends' and less pro-devs
 

Thrill_house

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,727
Eh do what you gotta do but I'll stick with steam. See ya there eventually if your game interests me that much
 

Wigdogger

Member
Oct 27, 2017
529
Stepping back and trying to look at it dispassionately, it's hard to argue with the numbers. If you're a small dev, 88/12 is just better than 70/30. You'd hope other ethical signposts would give them pause, but if you're trying to survive, more money is going to help you do that. You're not going to care about a small exclusivity window.

And let's be blunt: this has happened with plenty of other games in other spaces, so it's hard to pick on them fully here.
 

Hasney

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
19,153
I'd be alright with this if I could buy keys elsewhere and have competition that way, but that's not looking like it will happen. Can't even remember the last Steam game I bought through Steam itself.

Guess if I'm waiting 12 months, may as well wait for a steep discount too.
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
54,768
It's time to vote with our wallets and refuse to support these bullshit practices on our platform.

They are pretty transparent that their hope is to pressure Steam into a more favorable royalty split. You can "vote with your wallet" in order to use whatever leverage you have to pressure companies, but understand that this is effectively no different from what this developer is doing.
 

tuxfool

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,858
The only thing that irks me a little about this is the 'curated' thing. Are you pro developers or against them? If you are pro-devs why would you arbitrarily limit who gets on your platform? To me it looks like they are more pro-'our friends' and less pro-devs
"My game is one of the good ones"

Also "Fuck you, got mine"
 

OMEGALUL

Banned
Oct 10, 2018
539
A) From our standpoint as customers, a curated store with a more limited selection of quality games is a plus.

Its good for you, not the consumer. I remember when Indie devs complained that Valve was gate keeping too much games from it store and when it opened the floodgates, they still complained. I wonder what will happen to the Epic Store when it also gets flooded by indie games :thinking:

Having the ability for you to share your emails with us (optionally) so we can communicate directly with you is hopefully also a plus for you

????????????????????????????????????????????
 

Zephy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,213
I like the no bullshit attitude this studio has had thus far, and I want to support them. They've been pretty honest so far as far as I could tell, so I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
 
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dex3108

dex3108

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,004
They are pretty transparent that their hope is to pressure Steam into a more favorable royalty split. You can "vote with your wallet" in order to use whatever leverage you have to pressure companies, but understand that this is effectively no different from what this developer is doing.

I would like them to put that same pressure on all platforms if they need money. But i guess when other platforms can say "we don't need you" than that is wast of time so you just bow your had down and release it.
 

Hasney

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
19,153
They are pretty transparent that their hope is to pressure Steam into a more favorable royalty split. You can "vote with your wallet" in order to use whatever leverage you have to pressure companies, but understand that this is effectively no different from what this developer is doing.

But the part where I get lost is that they could generate Steam keys, sell them through their own site and Steam wouldn't take a cut at that point. Just encourage people to support them and buy through them for the same price.

Rather than "pressure Steam", it feels a lot more like hoping the smaller selection of games helps them stand out put and the deal Epic cut them for marketing if money didn't change hands will also offset not being on the #1 platform.

More power to them, but I've yet to see any compelling reasons that consumers have benefitted from anything they've done yet. Just reduced options.
 

FoneBone

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,832
They're being more transparent about their decision than other devs (and kudos for that), but their case for Epic exclusivity being pro-consumer is... lacking.
 

Durante

Dark Souls Man
Member
Oct 24, 2017
5,074
They were doing really well until they started trying to sell it as an improvement for consumers.
 

Sabin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,721
So when will they start boycotting Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft with their 30/70 split. :thinking:
 

Saint-14

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
14,477
Epic have money and going hard, I wonder if they will do this with some big games as well, they need people to use their store and money clearly isn't a problem.
 

okay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
589
What is more money: 40k at 88% or 100k+ at 70%?

I feel like some devs are a little optimistic about the Epic Game Store customer base
 

HockeyBird

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,722
Definitely skirted around why it is good for consumers. I understand that visibility is a problem for many indies on Steam. But I not sure that putting something exclusively on Epic's store is going to bring them more sales. They're still going to have to compete with the glut of indie releases from Steam and other places. You're not selling a product on an island without any influence from the outside.
 

Edge

A King's Landing
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,012
Celle, Germany
God, this shit spread like a wildfire. Epic is waving with their money and forcing people to buy at their new place and some people still celebrate them cause "it's more money for the developers" when even this, true fact, is nothing more than a manipulative power game to get this exact reaction and still some people can't look behind it.

Jesus, this whole thing, the shop, the "good news" about more money for developers and now the forced exclusive games are exactly like big evil dominating companies in movies or series are, it's almost laughable how close this comparison even is. Everything about this new shop is manipulative and people, in masses, fall for it.

Where are the big articles about this shit, Kotaku and co?
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27,738
They're trying to support a better revenue split, nothing wrong with that. And hopefully this starts the ball rolling where Steam and others have to make their split comparable.
No offense to them but if they think them tanking their own game will convince steam to change policy i have a bridge to sell them.
 

Damaniel

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,550
Portland, OR
I'm shocked that there's so much salt around having alternative game markets. Monopolies aren't good for anyone (and yeah, Steam isn't technically a monopoly, but they do have the vast majority of the market). If devs think they can get themselves a more fair split of the revenue by going elsewhere, then fine. If enough devs do it, maybe they can get Steam to cut their royalty share too.

(Plus, officially curated markets are a good thing. Nothing sucks more than having to flip full of pages of asset flips and hentai games just to find the diamonds in the piles of shit.)
 
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dex3108

dex3108

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,004
I'm shocked that there's so much salt around having alternative game markets. Monopolies aren't good for anyone (and yeah, Steam isn't technically a monopoly, but they do have the vast majority of the market). If devs think they can get themselves a more fair split of the revenue by going elsewhere, then fine. If enough devs do it, maybe they can get Steam to cut their royalty share too.

(Plus, officially curated markets are a good thing. Nothing sucks more than having to flip full of pages of asset flips and hentai games just to find the diamonds in the piles of shit.)

Ask developer of Cook, Serve, Delicious what he thinks about curated stores.
 

tuxfool

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,858
(Plus, officially curated markets are a good thing. Nothing sucks more than having to flip full of pages of asset flips and hentai games just to find the diamonds in the piles of shit.)
I've yet to have to do that on steam.

Plus it is easy to argue for curation when you're one of the *special* few that gets in. They'll soon be whining again about visibility when there more than just 10 games on a client that lacks even basic features like search.

I still remember game developers complaining about how difficult it was to get on steam, quite rightly.
 

Sabin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,721
(Plus, officially curated markets are a good thing. Nothing sucks more than having to flip full of pages of asset flips and hentai games just to find the diamonds in the piles of shit.)
Ah the good old shit post classic.
Im still waiting for someone to show me proof that the steam storefront is filled with hentai games and asset flips. Guess i will die of old age before that happens. Oh and btw if Steam would still be curating games, Stardew Valley as an example would have not passed the bar and im pretty sure there are countless other game that would never made if it wasn't for the openness of Steam.
 

DSP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,120
Is this game using UE4? I think if you're building a game with UE4, publishing on epic store must be very attractive, it's practically free unreal engine license. Looking at their lineup, a lot of those titles are on ue4. If you're small developer that's a big expense for you covered.
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,116
But the part where I get lost is that they could generate Steam keys, sell them through their own site and Steam wouldn't take a cut at that point. Just encourage people to support them and buy through them for the same price.
This would complicate the purchase enough to ensure lost sales. A big portion of the value of storefronts is that they make paying for a game easy for players.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,514
Stepping back and trying to look at it dispassionately, it's hard to argue with the numbers. If you're a small dev, 88/12 is just better than 70/30. You'd hope other ethical signposts would give them pause, but if you're trying to survive, more money is going to help you do that. You're not going to care about a small exclusivity window.

And let's be blunt: this has happened with plenty of other games in other spaces, so it's hard to pick on them fully here.



Stepping back and looking at it dispassionately: The more places sells your product, the better.

Let's be honest: Moneyhatted for a year.
 

mercenar1e

Banned
Dec 18, 2017
639
God, this shit spread like a wildfire. Epic is waving with their money and forcing people to buy at their new place and some people still celebrate them cause "it's more money for the developers" when even this, true fact, is nothing more than a manipulative power game to get this exact reaction and still some people can't look behind it.

Jesus, this whole thing, the shop, the "good news" about more money for developers and now the forced exclusive games are exactly like big evil dominating companies in movies or series are, it's almost laughable how close this comparison even is. Everything about this new shop is manipulative and people, in masses, fall for it.

If you think this is bad imagine what it could be if Epics store is near or on the level of Steam.

hopefully Fortnite dies ASAP.
 

Hasney

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
19,153
This would complicate the purchase enough to ensure lost sales. A big portion of the value of storefronts is that they make paying for a game easy for players.

Not really, because they'd have to be on Steam as well on that scenario. So they could just talk about their own store or the like and take sales there for people that want to give them a better cut, and you still get the easy Steam transaction where needed for those guys
 

Deleted member 1041

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,725
What is more money: 40k at 88% or 100k+ at 70%?

I feel like some devs are a little optimistic about the Epic Game Store customer base

What is more money: 40k at 88% or 40k at 70%?

We can play the "Im gonna make numbers up" game all we want, but the truth is indie devs are trying to get a better deal. Especially after valve spit in their face with their changes last week that were pretty much "if you're a AAA company and you make millions off your AAA title you get a higher cut. Not you, indies."

And Im all for indie devs getting paid.
 

Edge

A King's Landing
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,012
Celle, Germany
I'm shocked that there's so much salt around having alternative game markets

And I'm shocked that people are really shocked about that.

Is it so hard to understand that people, including me, just want to have one gaming library on one place instead of 15 games on steam, 12 on origin, 5 on Ubisoft, 12 on GOG, 5 on Microsoft store, 5 on Bethesda, 6 on Blizzard and now, because they f'n force you to, the next bunch only on Epic.

Do you really care so little for the stuff that you buy/own? Who can keep track of all their games when maybe even more shops with exclusive shit open in the future? Is it really so shocking that people just don't want that?

Specially when like in this case, EPIC is so disgustingly aggressive forcing people to come the new store.
 

Rodjer

Self-requested ban.
Member
Jan 28, 2018
4,808
Can't wait to see them selling few copies and go back to Steam when they have 90 million monthly users available.
 
Oct 26, 2017
23
User banned (permanent): Troll account in junior phase
I'm shocked that there's so much salt around having alternative game markets. Monopolies aren't good for anyone (and yeah, Steam isn't technically a monopoly, but they do have the vast majority of the market). If devs think they can get themselves a more fair split of the revenue by going elsewhere, then fine. If enough devs do it, maybe they can get Steam to cut their royalty share too.

(Plus, officially curated markets are a good thing. Nothing sucks more than having to flip full of pages of asset flips and hentai games just to find the diamonds in the piles of shit.)
Then why's that shitty game Hello Neighbor on the epic fail store then? But muh curation.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,514
What is more money: 40k at 88% or 40k at 70%?

We can play the "Im gonna make numbers up" game all we want, but the truth is indie devs are trying to get a better deal. Especially after valve spit in their face with their changes last week that were pretty much "if you're a AAA company and you make millions off your AAA title you get a higher cut. Not you, indies."

And Im all for indie devs getting paid.



You know what's more money ?
40k at 88% + 40k at 70%.
I'm all for indie devs getting paid. But if they dont want my money, that's on them !
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,191
Pretty decent answers, I think transparency about this is better for all parties.

I'm still curious if they're getting an advance or upfront payment or similar. We've seen one set of figures for revenue share, but also seen epic allude to additional funds.
 
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