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Dictator

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
4,930
Berlin, 'SCHLAND
and one caused by having too much fps, mainly prevelant on high end intel cpu's.
One thing about that kind of stutter is that it is really easy to see any game do that. If you unlock FPS in many modern AAA games that use tons of threads and let the CPU get thrashed you can see worse frametimes on average, like greater stutter, than if you let the game cap at 70 or 80 fps or something.

We noticed this pretty handidly when testing ultra hi fps in battlefield 5. The frametime graph when you let the CPU get saturated completely in that game goes to shit with a much worse subjective experience then just capping it and letting the CPU breathe.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,510
Thought about giving it a shot today.
Crashed right at the end of the mission, and I took Auto Save off.

giphy.gif
 

ken_matthews

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
838
Yeah I kinda wish I had researched that more when I got my 55" Vizio, albeit I got it largely as a "hold over" for 2-3 years until VRR sets hit so I went the cheap route. The black frame insertion makes a noticeable difference in clairty, but it's not a great implementation -definite flicker and lower contrast. I would keep it on all the time if this wasn't the case.

The black frame insertion does dim the screen a bit, and there is a slight strobing effect that is more apparent on lighter parts of the screen, but after playing for an hour or so with it on, you no longer notice any of that stuff and it makes the games look amazing.
 

ken_matthews

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
838
Also, I installed "Graphics Tools" from the Windows features and now the DX12 api works! Now I am getting better performance (about 5-10 fps more in camp), with no stutters. Thanks to whoever figured that one out.
 

h00jraq

Member
Mar 21, 2019
28
Well if anyone is interested it apparently looks that Map is fucked up using Vulkan in many different ways. Scrolling does not work properly and in general map movement is fucked up, just does not work. I will try to record a video to show it because this kind of bug is soo pathetic...
 

jorimt

Member
Mar 8, 2018
41
FYI, new Nvidia 441.20 driver apparently addresses (page 19):
[Red Dead Redemption 2][Vulkan]: G-SYNC disengages when disabling V-Sync on the game. [2740479]

Also, indirectly related to this game, but still possibly relevant to some C9 users:
[HDR]: HDR black levels are grey on LG OLED55C9. [2738708]

EDIT:
I can confirm G-SYNC is working for me in Vulkan now with in-game V-SYNC disabled.
 
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exodus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,943
One thing about that kind of stutter is that it is really easy to see any game do that. If you unlock FPS in many modern AAA games that use tons of threads and let the CPU get thrashed you can see worse frametimes on average, like greater stutter, than if you let the game cap at 70 or 80 fps or something.

We noticed this pretty handidly when testing ultra hi fps in battlefield 5. The frametime graph when you let the CPU get saturated completely in that game goes to shit with a much worse subjective experience then just capping it and letting the CPU breathe.

That must only be in some games or with some API's though? Or maybe only in games that can effectively max all CPU threads.

CS:GO is heavily CPU limited for me but I don't seem to experience any frametime issues when running at 250+ fps.

If it's a case of the CPU getting hammered maybe it could be fixed with updates to the Windows scheduler or by limiting core usage. Specter/Meltdown fixes might also have a larger impact since they really hurt performance when it comes to context switching IIRC.
 

Forceflow

Member
Nov 5, 2019
139
Belgium
That must only be in some games or with some API's though? Or maybe only in games that can effectively max all CPU threads.

CS:GO is heavily CPU limited for me but I don't seem to experience any frametime issues when running at 250+ fps.

If it's a case of the CPU getting hammered maybe it could be fixed with updates to the Windows scheduler or by limiting core usage. Specter/Meltdown fixes might also have a larger impact since they really hurt performance when it comes to context switching IIRC.
In BFV, every frame, it has to do physics sim and update positions of 63 other players. I have to cap my fps at 120 fps in BFV too, otherwise my CPU can't keep up and I get horrible spikes when there's an explosion. You can see this really well on the PerfOverlay graph (a diagnostics tool every released game should have :) )
 

Hojaho

Member
Mar 26, 2018
41
That must only be in some games or with some API's though? Or maybe only in games that can effectively max all CPU threads.

CS:GO is heavily CPU limited for me but I don't seem to experience any frametime issues when running at 250+ fps.

If it's a case of the CPU getting hammered maybe it could be fixed with updates to the Windows scheduler or by limiting core usage. Specter/Meltdown fixes might also have a larger impact since they really hurt performance when it comes to context switching IIRC.

Alex said it happens in games that use tons of threads. CS:GO is probably mono threaded or close to.
 

jorimt

Member
Mar 8, 2018
41
One thing about that kind of stutter is that it is really easy to see any game do that. If you unlock FPS in many modern AAA games that use tons of threads and let the CPU get thrashed you can see worse frametimes on average, like greater stutter, than if you let the game cap at 70 or 80 fps or something.

We noticed this pretty handidly when testing ultra hi fps in battlefield 5. The frametime graph when you let the CPU get saturated completely in that game goes to shit with a much worse subjective experience then just capping it and letting the CPU breathe.
That must only be in some games or with some API's though? Or maybe only in games that can effectively max all CPU threads.

CS:GO is heavily CPU limited for me but I don't seem to experience any frametime issues when running at 250+ fps.

If it's a case of the CPU getting hammered maybe it could be fixed with updates to the Windows scheduler or by limiting core usage. Specter/Meltdown fixes might also have a larger impact since they really hurt performance when it comes to context switching IIRC.
In BFV, every frame, it has to do physics sim and update positions of 63 other players. I have to cap my fps at 120 fps in BFV too, otherwise my CPU can't keep up and I get horrible spikes when there's an explosion. You can see this really well on the PerfOverlay graph (a diagnostics tool every released game should have :) )

While the aforementioned causes here could certainly be the case in many instances, I'll add that in my personal observations over the years (subjective, not objective, mind you; no in-depth testing), I've also noted that some engines appear to not handle variable frametime targets very well, and prefer sustained and/or even interval framerates (30, 60, 120), regardless of CPU capability, sync configuration, physics, tick rate, etc.

For instance, I was recently playing The Witness, and even though my CPU and GPU weren't even close to being saturated (8700k and 1080 Ti @1440p), and I had a 141 FPS RTSS limit (with G-SYNC @144Hz), I was getting recurring stutter. It wasn't until I limited the FPS to 120 that the stutter disappeared.

This issue probably depends on the given engine, regardless of system capabilities in certain instances, and RDR2 does not seem to like variable framerate (currently), period.
 
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TheRed

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,658
So there seems to be a vignette effect at the edges of the screen or especially noticeable to me at top of screen. Is there a way to disable that?
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,329
Finally got to play in DX12 mode last night for the first time, played about 4 hours (made it to Chapter 3 finally), no crashes...only problem was the Windows Mouse Cursor staying on the screen at all times which I remedied a bit by using an Xbox Elite controller so at least the cursor was acting like the in-game reticle instead of having two reticles with one being useless (the Windows Mouse Cursor) and going all over the screen.

Edit: I forgot that when I switched over to my 4K HDTV the Windows Cursor went away when using a controller.

So, maybe it was coincidence or maybe not, who knows as the game could crash 10 times in the next 30 minutes of play but DX12 seemed more stable than my Vulkan experience while performance seemed about the same or even smoother for me.
 

Nugnip

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,744
Hey, this is not really about graphics but still a technical question: is there an easy way to handle multiple profiles/playtrough in this version? Both me and my girlfriend are playing this right now, on the same PC, but it's been a hassle.
You have to launch to game, figure out if that's your playtrough or not, and if not, select your last hard save from within the game, with no real way to name them or identify them easily, just a timestamp. It sucks.
 

Isee

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,235
Installed the newest Nvidia Driver:

-Vulkan + G-Sync now works as expected (no need for V-Sync)

-Stuttering in Vulkan is not fixed, but significantly better (less spikes, less strong spikes)

-3D Audio no works! WTF?! I'm using Dolby Atmos for Headphones and had more or less good Stereo Sound in the game and was actually a bit dissapointed. But now, out of nowhere I'm getting proper 3D Audio. Why Nvidia and HOW Nvidia?
 

Slackbladder

Member
Nov 24, 2017
1,145
Kent
Tried on my LG C8. HDR doesn't seem too bad. Not washed out but lacking punch in the colours. Had it as the same on my 21:9 monitor except 4K at .834 but .875 gave me a weird graphic artifact like coloured blocks on the bottom of the screen. Seemed good for locked 60fps, even in St Denis.

So far in 20hrs I've had two crashes - one when minimized and the other in camp talking to npc's. So lucky there, perhaps.
Oh, did have a weird thing. The map icons were 'floating' above the map making it impossible to use it. Not sure when it happened as i thought it worked initially. I did alter UI safe zone. But when I went to default the map still had floating icons. Weird.
 

Jamrock User

Member
Jan 24, 2018
3,161
My day off is Thursday I would be such a happy sob if we get a crash fix for dx12. But seeing how big this game is..prob nah. It'll probably be months before we see a major patch.
 

Dan L

Tried to PM someone for a tag
Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,177
Regina, Saskatchewan
Great to see Rockstar working on hard on fixes, release notes today:
[November 12, 2019] – New Content

  • A new Legendary Bounty has been added to Red Dead Online:
    • Red Ben Clempson
  • Weekly Collectible List – Herbalists Collection
    • Blood Flower
    • Chocolate Daisy
    • Creek Plum
  • New Permanent Clothing items have been added to the Wheeler, Rawson & Co. Catalogue:
    • Dunaway Coat
    • Lebetter Hat
    • Fuentes Poncho
    • Kiliman Vest
    • Parson Boots (Male Only)
    • Rowland Boots (Female Only)
    • Purkiss Hat
    • Cerrada Boots
    • Farley Shirt (Male Only)
    • Tillson Sweater
    • Pearrow Hat
    • Union Cap
    • Cibola Boots
  • A new Time-Limited Clothing item has been added to the Wheeler, Rawson & Co. Catalogue:
    • Cardozo Vest

😐
 

WGMBY

Member
Oct 27, 2017
515
Boston, MA
I've been having crashes during story missions, normally when talking to someone or during cutscenes, but besides those two things it's been mostly smooth sailing since the last patch.
 

CelticKennedy

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Sep 18, 2019
1,881
Great to see Rockstar working on hard on fixes, release notes today:


😐
They said that they would be releasing Online updates for all platforms at the same time moving forward. That doesn't mean that they have given up fixing all the issues on PC.

I bet if they didn't release the same weekly updates on PC that were on console, PC players would also be pissed about that.
 

laxu

Member
Nov 26, 2017
2,782
They said that they would be releasing Online updates for all platforms at the same time moving forward. That doesn't mean that they have given up fixing all the issues on PC.

I bet if they didn't release the same weekly updates on PC that were on console, PC players would also be pissed about that.

Exactly. Plus content teams and programming teams will do completely different things.

I do hate how everything is rolled as an update because eventually you will have to keep updating the game just for some stupid online content you might not even play. That's what happened with GTA V and it made using mods pretty awkward as they would constantly break.

On another note, updating to the latest Nvidia drivers did nothing for the crashes I'm experiencing. My motherboard has an AGESA 1.0.0.4 BIOS out so I will try that next - if Gigabyte just managed to fix the damn download link!
 

Deleted member 16136

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,196

Nekrono

Member
May 17, 2018
563
For the people that play with Vulkan have you experienced any texture/asset streaming issues even when on Ultra?

I had to enable virtual memory paging on my system in order to stop Vulkan from crashing but I noticed really bad textures and assets on the benchmark so I went back to DX12.
 

Hadoken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
306
If you install Nvidia DCH drivers it doesn't come with the control panel. You had to get it from the MS Store if that's what you guys are referring to. Games Ready Driver has everything. I read it's something to do with MS new policy to have only bare bones drivers (DCH) and anything extra is on the MS Store.
 

Cyanity

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,345
Exactly. Plus content teams and programming teams will do completely different things.

I do hate how everything is rolled as an update because eventually you will have to keep updating the game just for some stupid online content you might not even play. That's what happened with GTA V and it made using mods pretty awkward as they would constantly break.

On another note, updating to the latest Nvidia drivers did nothing for the crashes I'm experiencing. My motherboard has an AGESA 1.0.0.4 BIOS out so I will try that next - if Gigabyte just managed to fix the damn download link!
At least you have a BIOS update for your mobo. I have the gigabyte Z170x Gaming 6 and afaik the last BIOS rev came out in 2018?
 
Oct 29, 2017
909
For the people that play with Vulkan have you experienced any texture/asset streaming issues even when on Ultra?

I had to enable virtual memory paging on my system in order to stop Vulkan from crashing but I noticed really bad textures and assets on the benchmark so I went back to DX12.
No, I actually had that issue with DX12. Objects and even landscapes were popping in far after camera transitions and for some reason loading took forever. Even the benchmark took almost 5 minutes to load one time. It's so strange how many seem to have issues on either vulkan, dx12 or both in this game with no rhyme or reason to it all.
 

R.T Straker

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,715
For those with heavy freezing with i5, turning on the async compute even with an Nvidia card helps for some reason.

Makes no sense.
 

Cyanity

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,345
For those with heavy freezing with i5, turning on the async compute even with an Nvidia card helps for some reason.

Makes no sense.
How do you go about doing that? I've been avoiding certain towns in RDO because the freezing has a habit of kicking me off the server with an error.
 

Pwnz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,279
Places
It installed this after I installed my drivers (from GFE), got the notification from the Windows Store saying so -

2019-11-122hkrc.png

Probably not an update install yet.

Microsoft probably won't have everything from Control Panel in Settings until 2026 at the rate they're going. I hope they don't kill the old one because honestly it's way more elegant in layout than all of that white space for fat fingers.
 

laxu

Member
Nov 26, 2017
2,782
If you install Nvidia DCH drivers it doesn't come with the control panel. You had to get it from the MS Store if that's what you guys are referring to. Games Ready Driver has everything. I read it's something to do with MS new policy to have only bare bones drivers (DCH) and anything extra is on the MS Store.

DCH is afaik a new driver format for Windows. Even if you download that it will still install everything if I remember correctly. I don't remember having to download NVCP separately. And yeah, it's the same clunky piece of crap it has been for the last decade or more.
 

Acrano

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,141
Germany
I give up. It took me days to get it to start and now it keeps on crashing. Tried different Nvidia drivers, updated BIOS, reinstalled the whole system. Nothing is working, at least I got the game for free AND already played it on PS4 at release, otherwise I would be furious.

AMD Ryzen 5 2600X
Gigabyte B450 AORUS PRO-CF
Nvidia GTX 1070 Ti
My System
 

Flappy Pannus

Member
Feb 14, 2019
2,340
For those with heavy freezing with i5, turning on the async compute even with an Nvidia card helps for some reason.

Makes no sense.
Only older Kepler/Maxwell cards should maybe not turn on async compute in certain games, for Turing cards there is no reason to disable async compute in games unless you want worse performance.
 

Dan L

Tried to PM someone for a tag
Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,177
Regina, Saskatchewan
It installed this after I installed my drivers (from GFE), got the notification from the Windows Store saying so -

2019-11-122hkrc.png
You installed the DCH driver, the Standard driver still bundles the NVCP installer with driver installer.
Microsoft requires all DCH drivers to not include additional applications and just be the driver.

Functionally the drivers are the same, you can use DDU to remove the DCH driver and install the Standard (download from nvidia.com/drivers) if you want the bundled NVCP. They are the same just installed differently.

 

inner-G

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
14,473
PNW
My laptop only has a 1060 but has a 144hz screen

instead of trying to hit 60, I used RTSS to lock at 48fps (exactly 1/3 of 144) and am playing at native 1080p on low-mediumish settings. Feels surprisingly smooth for me, maybe because of the screen, not sure how 48fps would feel on a 60hz panel.
 

dgrdsv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,846
It installed this after I installed my drivers (from GFE), got the notification from the Windows Store saying so -

2019-11-122hkrc.png
It's likely that the update failed and Windows tried to install the driver from WU which is a DCH one with WinStore CPL these days. Happened to me a couple of times.

Uninstall anything related to NV driver from Apps, download DDU, disable network adapter, reboot into safe mode, clean with DDU, reboot, run the 440.20 installer again, enable network adapter. Isn't it just great when MS just silently install stuff in Windows 10?

Or, as others said, you've downloaded the DCH installer in the first place.
 

Slackbladder

Member
Nov 24, 2017
1,145
Kent
Soooooooo...after many hours of near faultless play I am no longer able to start the game. It crashes at launch when I try to start from a save. If I start a new game it's fine. So that's nearly 30hrs down the shitter.