[Reddit] Removing your support items in Anthem massively increases melee/combo/proc/ult damage

AntiMacro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,175
Alberta
Lack of content can maybe be blamed on EA, but the game is full of questionable designs that have nothing to do with MTX or anything elae a publisher might force on the devs. I doubt EA would go "here, use this method to calculate damage scaling".

Would love to see how many creative positions developers from Bioware's golden years are still there.
A lot of the bugs are stupid little calculation things that shouldn't happen at a developer that's done RPGs for years...but then again, DA:I did have things like assassin archers that were just STUPIDLY overpowered early on due to skills applying to it that were apparently not supposed to. Maybe they just don't have anyone there doing 'big picture' overview of skills/equipment interaction like they should.

So, this is a good thread to ask, as I don't feel like it's quite worth a thread on its own, so I'm gonna risk it getting completely burried and skipped past, but here's a question:

I have never really been that big on these loot games. It's not that I never played or enjoyed them, that'd be a lie. I played diablo 2 back in the day, I played borderlands games in recent decades. But, I was never super into it. I was basically jsut deep enough to understand why other people like it so much. It's gathering all the loot, that makes you stronger and builds you can make out of it. All sorta min-max funsies fro people that are into it.

So, with Anthem, I am starting to question that understanding. Cuz, what is even the point of the loot, if it doesn't actually make you stronger? If there's just super aggressive scaling that boosts me to be on the level with top dogs? If I were to buy anthem today, why would I bother grinding items if there's systems at every corner that ensure I don't actually need to, as I'd just get scaled up?

Now, it's easy to just chalk up this to Bioware fucking it up, but I just have to make sure... Is this kinda scaling common and bioware is just being really bad at ironing out the specifics? Or is this scaling mostly unique to Anthem and is just asign of utter misunderstanding of the genre by Bioware?
If it's the former, than... what is actually teh appeal of loot games, if not what I always thought it was? Is it literally just seeing numbers go up, even if they don't actually matter and affect anything? I always thought numbers needed to represent something tangible from gameplay standpoint to hook people,
Outside of the bugs - which are just that, bugs...it's not meant to work the way it does...it's the same as every other loot treadmill game. You get loot and get more powerful, then you fight more powerful things that still provide a challenge to get better loot to fight still MORE powerful things... In most games like this you go back to a starter area and can wipe out the stuff there with trivial effort or attention, but that's changing a bit these days - with some games using scaling so it's not just a cakewalk wasted area once you've outleveled it.

I mean when I'm playing Diablo 3 and my character does a 3k fireball to kill creatures early on with 3K health, then does a 30k fireball later on to kill creatures with 30k health on a jacked up difficulty, the number is bigger but you're not really all that much more powerful feeling aside from that. That's where the treadmill games like looter shooters/dungeon crawlers/mmo's lose some people - they see the treadmill for what it is and lose interest.
 
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stan423321

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,703
This game was forced out the door way too early. Battlefront 2 was. Battlefield V was. Mass Effect Andromeda was. It's a bad pattern.
DICE games were in entirely different situations than BioWare ones. BFV was light on content from what I hear, sure, but what really broke it was CoD having a good year and extreme course corrections from prior titles. (SWBF2 launch MTX hell happening to blow the controversy up, SWBF1 going for $110 online BF3 formula without any SP, etc.)

Nowhere near SP Star Wars or BioWare insanity, at any rate.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
16,444
DFW, Texas
Why do people keep saying this? Who cares if they only worked on this actual build for 2 years? If that's the case what the fuck were they doing for the other 5 years? This game wasnt rushed lol
A game needs to be released when it's done. If it's not done yet and it gets forced out anyway then that is the game being rushed.


There is no set amount of time for a game to be developed. It's done when it's done. And this clearly wasn't done.
 

Meffer

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,370
Why do people keep saying this? Who cares if they only worked on this actual build for 2 years? If that's the case what the fuck were they doing for the other 5 years? This game wasnt rushed lol
Because it is an important distinction. They likely made several builds before this one that weren't good or acceptable. And with this build they HAD to meet the deadline, no exceptions. Which means they didn't have enough time to properly work on the game. The bugs, glitches and messed up stats and scaling is proof of that.
 

Zips

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,197
At this point, I just can't do anything but roll my eyes and sigh.

C'mon BioWare. Be better.
 

Uthred

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,897
Because it is an important distinction. They likely made several builds before this one that weren't good or acceptable. And with this build they HAD to meet the deadline, no exceptions. Which means they didn't have enough time to properly work on the game. The bugs, glitches and messed up stats and scaling is proof of that.
This doesn't excuse the games fundamental flaws which stem from problems with design not polish.
 

Hubologist

Member
Nov 1, 2017
991
This is so fucked. I say this as someone who's enjoying the game in spite of its deeply fundamental shortcomings.

No one knows what happened.

There's only one man who can crack the case, a certain press sneak fuck.

*presses x*
JASON! JASON! JASON!!!
I saw him post on Reddit yesterday that he's working on an exposé. At least, I think it was him.

Gonna be a fascinating read, I'm sure.
 

Maneil99

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
4,824
A game needs to be released when it's done. If it's not done yet and it gets forced out anyway then that is the game being rushed.


There is no set amount of time for a game to be developed. It's done when it's done. And this clearly wasn't done.
It’s nobody’s fault but Bioware employees and EA managers though
 

Skux

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,367

One of the dumbest things I've ever seen. In a game based on loot and maximising calculations, the core gameplay is completely fraudulent.
 

gothmog

Member
Oct 28, 2017
216
NY
Honestly I put the blame on EA. I sincerely doubt Bioware was super hyped about releasing their brand new IP in a broken and unfinished state.
Anthem's release date of Feb 22nd, 2019 was announced at E3 back in June 2018. I find it hard to blame EA for the state of the game with a known launch date that far in advance. BioWare just couldn't get it done.
 

klauskorp

Member
Oct 27, 2017
298
Minnesota
I saw him post on Reddit yesterday that he's working on an exposé. At least, I think it was him.

Gonna be a fascinating read, I'm sure.
I really hope he is digging into it. I'd like to read something like that. Some of the decisions they made in this game are baffling and I would like to know if it's as simple as the game changed dramatically recently and they had to rush out what they had, or if it's something else such as severe staff turnover or whatever.
 

jviggy43

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,564
A game needs to be released when it's done. If it's not done yet and it gets forced out anyway then that is the game being rushed.


There is no set amount of time for a game to be developed. It's done when it's done. And this clearly wasn't done.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/according-to-jason-schreier-making-anthem-was-bioware-idea-ea-actually-gives-the-studios-autonomy-and-more.105408/

I mean it was obvious but again this wasnt a rush job, this wasnt ea. This game got more time and resources than 99% of other games and it still came out like this. Theres no way in hell under any definition that this was a rush job. This was just a bad job. By bioware.
 

Perona

Member
Oct 31, 2017
244
Enemy health scales based on the weapon you have equipped. So no matter what, gun X will just kill an enemy in "four shots"? And they don't actually have set HP pools? What?
I think that was a bug that only affected level 1 guns/abilities. Doesn't work this way with even level 2 stuff.
 

Gamer @ Heart

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,033
They designed a loot game where the numbers are all a lie.

How far into development were they until they rationalized that the scaling bandaid was acceptable enough to ship I wonder.
 

0ean

Member
Jan 30, 2019
21
So much for "the destiny killer". Anthem killed itself. This game is definitely in Fallout 76s league of "Dead on arrival AAA games". Shame on Bioware.
 
More explanation on scaling

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,123
I'm not an anthem player, just a bioware fan watching this trainwreck from the sidelines with a vague sense of concern for the company, but this is the latest hotness from Reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/AnthemTheGame/comments/b1bcbx/powerscaling_why_loot_doesnt_matter_anymore_math/

This isn't exactly new, since it's more of a detailed explanation of why removing your stuff increases your damage, but it does mean that as of this new patch, you have no reason to collect more loot from your looter shooter.

You just need one legendary weapon, and that's it.
 
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MechaBreaker

Member
Jun 26, 2018
1,433
I'm not an anthem player, just a bioware fan watching this trainwreck from the sidelines with a vague sense of concern for the company, but this is the latest hotness from Reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/AnthemTheGame/comments/b1bcbx/powerscaling_why_loot_doesnt_matter_anymore_math/

This isn't exactly new, since it's more of a detailed explanation of why removing your stuff increases your damage, but it does mean that as of this new patch, you have no reason to collect more loot from your looter shooter.

You just need one legendary weapon, and that's it.
That’s amazing, holy shit!
 

gothmog

Member
Oct 28, 2017
216
NY
I'm not an anthem player, just a bioware fan watching this trainwreck from the sidelines with a vague sense of concern for the company, but this is the latest hotness from Reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/AnthemTheGame/comments/b1bcbx/powerscaling_why_loot_doesnt_matter_anymore_math/

This isn't exactly new, since it's more of a detailed explanation of why removing your stuff increases your damage, but it does mean that as of this new patch, you have no reason to collect more loot from your looter shooter.

You just need one legendary weapon, and that's it.
Ugh. This is why band aids usually don't help. I was hoping this game would be fixed in a few months, but it seems like the problems are worse than we thought. IMO, BioWare still hasn't come to terms with the fact that this game needs a long term plan to be fixed which stretches the timeline even further.
 

Skittles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,490
Ugh. This is why band aids usually don't help. I was hoping this game would be fixed in a few months, but it seems like the problems are worse than we thought. IMO, BioWare still hasn't come to terms with the fact that this game needs a long term plan to be fixed which stretches the timeline even further.
Since they seemingly faked all the stats in the game. It's gonna be a good year or more before we get a system which is good
 

kadotsu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,138
They also need a Bungie or Massive level realization that their game needs that kind of work. Right now they seem to be fixated on short term fixes.
Even after the logic is fixed you still have a barren open world patrol area and the equivalent of 3 strikes as your endgame material. That is simply embarasing and also way harder to fix.
 

Legacy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,583
Every week it's something new with this game, it will be a miracle if they manage to turn this around and keep a reasonable playerbase
 

darkwing

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,458
I'm not an anthem player, just a bioware fan watching this trainwreck from the sidelines with a vague sense of concern for the company, but this is the latest hotness from Reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/AnthemTheGame/comments/b1bcbx/powerscaling_why_loot_doesnt_matter_anymore_math/

This isn't exactly new, since it's more of a detailed explanation of why removing your stuff increases your damage, but it does mean that as of this new patch, you have no reason to collect more loot from your looter shooter.

You just need one legendary weapon, and that's it.
lol imo this is a more serious problem than the OP
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,123
lol imo this is a more serious problem than the OP
Well, that's what I mean, it's the SAME problem as the OP, just better explained. And that's understandable, because they just discovered the problem, so they don't know how it works.

This post goes into detail explaining why and what that means for the endgame loot chase. It's the same problem, but in greater detail.

Anthem didn't just die, it was MURDERED
Isn't there some youtuber that uses that for every failed game?
 

LordofPwn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,327
Looter shooters must be cursed or something.
BL, BL2, BL TPS were all fine. Destiny launched without issues and the raid was a success the end game was not deep though. Destiny 2 didn't really have any issues at launch, the loot progression was just shallow. The Division had a pretty smooth launch but the end game wasn't really there. The Division 2 seems to be doing fine but it's still too early to tell.

That being said I get what you're trying to say and I blame it on studios not getting enough time to work on the game and being overly ambitious with the scale/scope and bringing an always online component to it.

"but Anthem took 6 years" yeah and it obviously had development problems and then EA needed it out of the door by the end of the fiscal year. myself and others raised flags about the private alpha being so close to release and then how do you warn people about an alpha build of a game when there's an NDA. It needed more time.
 

Mona

Member
Oct 30, 2017
12,170
how the hell does BIOWARE forget how to make basic RPG mechanics

wtf is going on over there