Redfall campaign progress is tied to the host in co-op and persistent only for that host [This needs to stop]

[dex3108]

Yesterday Arkane clarified that Red Fall story/mission progress is tied to host and character progress carries over. And this is just one of the latest games that continue this trend. On other big one that does this is Far Cry. And honestly this is BS and needs to stop. If you are making drop in/drop out coop game in year 2022 then story/mission progress needs to carry over. Look at the Saints Row, you can play any mission with a friend and if your friend is far ahead of you and you finish late game mission with your friend, when you reach that point on your save you can skip mission or replay it because it will be marked as finished.

By keeping progress tied to host in most cases you actually make people not want play it in coop.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Someone out there prefers it this way. But who is that person? And why?

there must be a good reason for it from a dev standpoint. So add a poll, and I will vote to keep it as "host-only progress"

 

[LetalisAmare]

Yeah its fucking annoying. If the none host player carries on in their own game it should just ask if they want to skip a mission they have already done. This game design has ruled out a bunch of co-op games me and a friend want to do.

 

[Deleted member 93062]

I legit thought this was pretty common in co-op games, I now learned it isn't, and it's really dumb.

 

[Kunka Kid]

It's like, I get the thinking behind why they do this but at the end of the day who cares. Just let people do what they want and play any level/mission whenever.

 

[KeRaSh]

Yes. Please.
Hate that shit.
I'd love it if it worked like that in Souls games as well...

 

[LossAversion]

Yep. It's the worst.

 

[FlanjeUK]

Only reason I can think of is to try and encourage/force people to play through it multiple times.

 

[Thera]

Only reason I can think of is to try and encourage/force people to play through it multiple times.

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[Vico]

This completely killed any interest I had with the game.

Like, I was planning on playing with friends, but the reality is that we won't always be on at the same time, so hearing that I have to be constantly with the same host is killing my hype

 

[PlanetSmasher]

I think it's borne of a desire for friends to buy the game and play it together as a "locked pair" so to speak. They really aren't designed for drop-in-drop-out co-op with strangers or different people, you're supposed to buy the game at launch with your buddy and both of you play through it together one time.

They think it'll increase sales if you HAVE to have a "buddy" to play the game with.

 

[Jawmuncher]

I know this is for an old game and in the reverse but COD: World at War would not save your progress if you played in coop first.
I beat the whole game in co-op and had to play the entire game again for SP. Was dumb.

 

[FlanjeUK]

ButWhy.gif

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[Finale Fireworker]

I wonder how difficult it might be to incorporate a "match progression with host" toggle. I guess it would have some complications and consequences when it comes to things like item pickups (does only one player get them? Do both players get them?) or NPC interactions. I imagine there would also be consequences for certain events or interactions becoming unavailable in your game if your host skips them but otherwise advances the world state. There's also the question of how coop would work if you're in totally different parts of the game, say if your host is in level 5 and you are in Level 2. Would it allow them to summon you at all? Would it advance your game to Level 5?

I think I've talked myself out of it.

 

[Kiro]

This completely killed any interest I had with the game.

Like, I was planning on playing with friends, but the reality is that we won't always be on at the same time, so hearing that I have to be constantly with the same host is killing my hype

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Honestly this for me as well.

I either need to accept this is as a solo game. Accept that my character will always have to play with my friend and we ony play together. Or have my friend accept that I'm always the host and never play with out them.

All those options are trash.

 

[dstarMDA]

For the few wondering, the main reason is simplicity and costs. It adds quite a lot of complexity to progress management to handle the player having completed later missions, not to mention QA to make sure nothing breaks in transition.

No excuse for big AAA coop-focused games though.

 

[oni-link]

ButWhy.gif

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Probably so they can sell you boosters and time savers or better weapon packs etc as MXTs

 

[Namtox]

When I had an interview with the Saints Row devs a month ago, this topic was brought up. So that game will let you play co-op even for creating your character. It has the standard full character progression you'd expect to carry over.

Difference is, when you go back and play your game, each mission will recognize if you've played it before, and give you the option to skip it or replay it. Not perfect, but a lot better than having to replay the entire experience.

 

[ChrisJSY]

The Ascent did this and as soon as I found out I just dropped the game, couldn't be fucked not being able to do stuff alone and then come back to my friends save. I had 3.9 hours in it so couldn't refund. Sometimes, it just a really terrible idea.

Co-op games really need to put the effort into making it seamless, drop in/drop out, no alternate saves etc etc.
Some do it amazingly, some don't do it at all.

 

[Kopite]

I think it's borne of a desire for friends to buy the game and play it together as a "locked pair" so to speak. They really aren't designed for drop-in-drop-out co-op with strangers or different people, you're supposed to buy the game at launch with your buddy and both of you play through it together one time.

They think it'll increase sales if you HAVE to have a "buddy" to play the game with.

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Who are these people out there with friends like that?

 

[Pikagreg]

I bounced back and forward with friends in Elden Ring and it was annoying but whatever. When we started Stranger of Paradise it was so much fun to be able to actually play the story together and progress at the same time. I have been looking up Nioh 2 stuff and it seems even better on that game and I really want to finally get around to it.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

Who are these people out there with friends like that?

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I don't fucking know, none of my friends have time to play co-op anymore. I've tried for like two straight years during the pandemic and it never works out. We all just wind up playing games on our own and texting about them after the fact.

 

[Nec]

Dude, I was thinking this just now because I'm playing Far Cry 5 co-op and after 10 hours I just realize that only the host unlocks most of the progress, we are going to do 100% but now I'm bummed because of this. So I probably gonna have to use some trainer to keep up the progress.

 

[Jawmuncher]

I'm grateful at least some games like Borderlands know better than to do this. If you're playing with a buddy from the start together, it really should check off that you're in the same spot story wise.

 

[platocplx]

All I got is that this is a technical issue at times for some games, and they didnt make it a priority to allow for This to be setup that way.
I would like to see more games that have Co-op actually take that into account. I mean hell take a page from Monster Hunter World. They got the co-op working perfect with your progress, only dumb thing was having to watch a cutscene separate lol

 

[Deleted member 93841]

I don't fucking know, none of my friends have time to play co-op anymore. I've tried for like two straight years during the pandemic and it never works out. We all just wind up playing games on our own and texting about them after the fact.

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I've got the feeling that younger people all have large groups of friends that they can hit up at a moment's notice to play games with them.

Often when new co-op games come out and people ask about matchmaking, you'll see posts along the lines of "just play with your friends" like it's just taken for granted that that option is available to everyone. All of my friends have families, work and other responsibities that makes scheduling something like that an absolute nightmare. Might as well tell me to just herd cats or to just use a fork to drink my water. xD

 

[BananasWithGuns]

Easily the biggest negative of the game so far for me. Why would I want to play several hours of the campaign with my friends just to have to replay it again after we're done. It makes no sense.

 

[Valcrist]

That sucks if you want to play through it with the same group of people. I'm turned off.

 

[Streusel]

i think being an open world game might make the implementation difficult.

 

[The Albatross]

I usually trust Arkane, and I'm going to wait to see how it comes out. I wonder if there's challenges with having these narrative/design-driven games that they insist Redfall still is despite being multiplayer, and having a sort of distributed progress system. I dunno, waiting to see how it plays out. Pretty much every time I've been skeptical of Arkane they've ended up impressing me with their design decisions (Dishonored 2 having two characters, Corvo speaking, rebooting Prey, Deathloop's design)... I think I've learned my lesson to wait to doubt them till actually trying it.

 

[Nif]

This is always the worst in coop-centric games.

 

[gabegabe]

It sucks because I might play sometimes with a friend but I'll probably play the most part solo and I didn't wanted to play for hours with him and have to replay again solo...

 

[PlanetSmasher]

i think being an open world game might make the implementation difficult.

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I don't think it should be. Like if it's an open world game where the missions and collectibles are specific map points, just clear the points off of both players' maps when they complete the tasks. And if you do a mission you haven't unlocked yet in solo play, just put a marker on the co-op player's map so they know it's one they've already cleared.

 

[SpottieO]

Arkane addressed it in their IGN interview, they said the flow of the game as weird if all of a sudden you could skip story progression because you had done it in someone else's co-op game. Whether that's right or wrong that's what their opinion on it is.

 

[Rhaknar]

I legit thought this was pretty common in co-op games, I now learned it isn't, and it's really dumb.

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it is common, and it's also dumb.

 

[Det]

Yeah not a fan of this. Hard enough lining up specific times to play in the same timezone, but the majority of my gaming friends are in a timezone that differs by 8 hours. Makes it impossible to coordinate outside of weekends.

 

[Lord Bandi]

Played Elden Ring with 2 other friends, cleaning out dungeons 3 times, back to back to back. We just did it.

Didn't hear one complaint about this on that game.

 

[Helix]

yeah I read about this and it's hilarious dumb.

 

[Jawmuncher]

If anything they need to go for the compromise route. Where it'll say something like "This player is ahead of you, so campaign progress will not be saved" while that isn't an issue if you're playing on the same exact missions.

Arkane addressed it in their IGN interview, they said the flow of the game as weird if all of a sudden you could skip story progression because you had done it in someone else's co-op game. Whether that's right or wrong that's what their opinion on it is.

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Did they address if you play from a friend from the start? That's the aspect I find odd.
If me and a friend play day one and they host and we beat the game together but I want to go back to it. Feels odd I would have to then start from the beginning if there were things I wanted to do solo (Even if I thankfully keep my gear and such).

Like I couldn't imagine having to restart a playthrough of Borderlands because I wanted to do some endgame content solo after beating it in coop.

 

[gabegabe]

Arkane addressed it in their IGN interview, they said the flow of the game as weird if all of a sudden you could skip story progression because you had done it in someone else's co-op game. Whether that's right or wrong that's what their opinion on it is.

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But I played that part with someone, why would it be considered that I "skipped" it? Weird.

 

[Brando]

What are the technical limitations that prevent shared progress in coop games like this and Far Cry? I'd argue you that if you can't make progress sharable then your game should be single player only and designed around that.

 

[Deleted member 2595]

A lot of things which appear very easy to do in multiplayer are actually incredibly difficult to pull off.

That said, I don't know too well specifically what development of systems like these are looks. But they're probably not as easy as people think. The Saints Row team probably invested a massive, massive amount of resources to make their experience so seamless for non-hosts.

Arkane addressed it in their IGN interview, they said the flow of the game as weird if all of a sudden you could skip story progression because you had done it in someone else's co-op game. Whether that's right or wrong that's what their opinion on it is.

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If all we're talking about is tracking mission progress, interesting and fair enough.

 

[Greywaren]

I was gonna play it alone anyway (none of my friends seem interested in it), but this sucks for people who were looking forward to co-op play.

 

[Hasney]

It's on GamePass, so I'll at least try it out, but man does this kill any hype and interest.

 

[eek]

Did they address if you play from a friend from the start? That's the aspect I find odd.
If me and a friend play day one and they host and we beat the game together but I want to go back to it. Feels odd I would have to then start from the beginning if there were things I wanted to do solo (Even if I thankfully keep my gear and such).

Like I couldn't imagine having to restart a playthrough of Borderlands because I wanted to do some endgame content solo after beating it in coop.

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No he didn't mention that at all. I feel like everything is just retroactive reasoning for cutting a feature that can be complex to implement and test.

 

[Broadbandit]

I really don't understand this decision ever.

If 4 of my friends all play the game from the start and then go our separate ways... we should have progress up until that point.

Dying light 2 killed me with this decision to play co-op with anyone. If my friend and I played 10 hours and I was host, that friend got no story progression at all and had to start from the beginning on his own machine.

Fine don't let me start a mission that is further along than where I am but anyone connected to my game should get progression if they are on the same mission.

Then when we complete the game it should give us no issue on missions/collectibles etc.

 

[SpottieO]

If anything they need to go for the compromise route. Where it'll say something like "This player is ahead of you, so campaign progress will not be saved" while that isn't an issue if you're playing on the same exact missions.



Did they address if you play from a friend from the start? That's the aspect I find odd.
If me and a friend play day one and they host and we beat the game together but I want to go back to it. Feels odd I would have to then start from the beginning if there were things I wanted to do solo (Even if I thankfully keep my gear and such).

Like I couldn't imagine having to restart a playthrough of Borderlands because I wanted to do some endgame content solo after beating it in coop.

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No I don't think they specifically addressed that situation. I guess as long as the same host is always starting the game then it wouldn't matter because it is their progression? Your characters keep their upgrades.

 

[J-Skee]

Lately, I've been using the phrase "I'd like to see the marketing data that points that this is a good thing" because genuinely....

 

[jonjonaug]

Played Elden Ring with 2 other friends, cleaning out dungeons 3 times, back to back to back. We just did it.

Didn't hear one complaint about this on that game.

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This is a very common complaint. There's a "seamless co-op" mod for PC with nearly 200 thousand unique downloads.

 

[BeeDog]

I can imagine it's a technical and logistical nightmare to pull off especially for narrative-driven games, but then again I rarely play coop games. Though this sucked badly in Dying Light 2, that's for sure.