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Reetae reviews the ending of LOST by comprehensively reviewing the series.

jayu26

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,094
I will get to this review some time next week. Thanks OP.

Lost was fun to watch while it was on the air. Even in the last season I will cherish the discussions that were had with friends and total strangers. But ultimately I felt like the fans put more thought into the show and it's mythos than the writers did. The writers were only interested in keeping the audience engaged by creating a faux mystery rather than a logical mythology. With having a group that you can discuss and pick apart an episode with this series looses lot of its appeal for me in last couple of seasons.
 

Stoney Mason

Member
Oct 25, 2017
345
Watched all of the videos also and they are good. It's a very nice takedown if you fundamentally always had issues with the direction the show took especially that final season and that finale but never spent the time to articulate the individual little parts in your head about why it felt so disingenuous.

I don't always agree with him on specific points with things like the numbers needing to have a larger meaning but the producers themselves kept feeding into such things by creating unnecessary mystery after unnecessary mystery to drive the show. It was such a bad way to handle things and I go back to Walt as the original sin and prime example in the show that the producers were never particularly honest or fair with that character. It's how they handled a lot of the show. Deny, sweep under the rug, or do a shell game kind of thing where you keep moving it to confuse people.

There are a lot of things I do agree with him on and none moreso than that ending which always struck me as some sort of candy coated placebo to try to make people feel something when it was all just a con job. An ending should have consequences. It should be the ultimate expression of consequences. But if your ending is don't worry so much. We all get in to the heaven. It's cool. For that to be the ending of this show (and the direction of the final season) is never what I expected/desired/or yearned for when the show began. It's the worst example of a greatest hits compilation.

So good thought piece on the show. It doesn't ruin the show for me. It doesn't make me hate the show. It didn't really change anything about my opinion on the show other than illuminating why the disappointing aspects of the show were disappointing. I still like the show a lot. I just understand a bit better why I didn't like parts of it.
 

Helio

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,236
It’s fucked up that Cuse and Lindelof lied to throw Charlottes actress under the bus because they couldn’t do a mea culpa and say they just overlooked the birthdates
 

WrenchNinja

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,493
Canada
Getting into part 6, and man, I am pretty stupid. I never really realised that their reasoning for going back to the island was so flimsy. And Jack's characterisation completely changed for the weakest of reasons.
 

Helio

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,236
Seriously, Jacob is really bad, characteristically and morally. Its sadistic that he brings people to the island just to play morality games. And that’s just for the games, the candidate bullshit is just as bad

Oh and Jacob is the leader of a group that kills moms and kidnaps children, but he removes Kate from candidacy because she became a mother. And as the dude says, once he removes that candidacy, Jacob definitely put her in danger without his protection.

Getting into part 6, and man, I am pretty stupid. I never really realised that their reasoning for going back to the island was so flimsy. And Jack's characterisation completely changed for the weakest of reasons.
Lol at jack saying that Claire probably wouldn’t have put her kid up for adoption and whatever she does, it would be her choice as he’s about to nuke a hole to erase people and events from reality.
 
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ibyea

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,000
Haha, it's funny how the smoke monster is a way more sympathetic character than Jacob, who is just an asshole. Seriously, the morality of this show is so messed up.
 

Kaswa101

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,579
Wow, how did I forget that all those other people died on the second plane. The oceanic 5 are sociopaths.
Iirc, they were killed on the island by Widmore, no? The actual plane landed on the island safely. Also, Hurley had purchased a ton of extra tickets to avoid having as many innocents on-board as possible.
 

Tesseract

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
2,644
i always tell people who ask about lost, watch seasons one through three and then quit.

don't go back to the island, there's absolutely nothing for you there.
 

Erigu

Member
Nov 4, 2017
472
Wow, how did I forget that all those other people died on the second plane. The oceanic 5 are sociopaths.
The fact Widmore just showed up in his sub afterwards makes it even better. Guess they didn't really need to sacrifice innocents after all, huh? Ah, well! They came back to the island, and that's really all that matters (to the characters, the writers, and sadly, most of the audience, it seems)!

And I love how the writers didn't even bother to explain how all those people who survived that second plane crash died soon after at all. Who murdered them? Why? Nobody gives a fuck, apparently. I guess those flaming arrows that took care of the extras from the first plane still weren't lazy enough for Lindelof and Cuse.


Iirc, they were killed on the island by Widmore, no?
No explanation was ever given. Sawyer accused Widmore, Widmore said that wasn't him, and that was it. Never mentioned again.

WIDMORE: Do you know who I am?
SAWYER: Of course I do. You're the fella that sent a freighter to the island loaded with guys to kill us all.
WIDMORE: It's sad, really... how little you actually know.
SAWYER: Well, I know you murdered all them people out there and dropped 'em in a ditch.
WIDMORE: We didn't murder those people. But I don't expect you to believe that.
SAWYER: Good, I don't
[Incidentally, gotta love that "it's sad, how little you actually know" bit... "Yeah, let's hint at there being some kind of deeper motive for Widmore to send those mercenaries... and just stop there, because eeeh, writing good plots and coherent character motivations is haaaard, man... why not simply try and trick our audience into believing we did, as usual?"]

The actual plane landed on the island safely.
I'm not sure if some of the passengers died (seems a bit odd that they'd all survive, especially considering the idea was to reenact the circumstances of the first plane crash as much as possible ("which is why we really need your father's shoes, Jack!"), and a bunch of people died then... but let's say). but the co-pilot absolutely did.
Besides, our "heroes" should know how dangerous that island is, and that even if you somehow survive the crash, you might still die a violent death later on anyway. So... that's really fucked up no matter how you look at it. Especially considering their reasons for coming back to the island were extremely flimsy (and it turns out the Man in Black needed to kill the candidates, so simply keeping those off the island would have been the better idea... guess Hawking just didn't know what the fuck she was talking about, huh?)...

Also, Hurley had purchased a ton of extra tickets to avoid having as many innocents on-board as possible.
How sweet of him.
 
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firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,826
I'm still surprised by the hate Lost have even after 7 years, but GOT season 7 got a pass for many inconsistencies.
I think both are bad, if that helps. lol

It doesn't at all, because the mysteries are not central. The series is about the characters and their relationships and struggles first and foremost. I don't know how anyone can watch more than a few episodes of The Leftovers and think that they are going to get answers to any of the mysteries, that is simply not the point at all.
.
The funny thing is that the LOST island basically IS just Purgatory, since it basically involves every character coming to terms with what they did before the crash. It's just that it was executed very poorly due to the WTF moments being front and centre, which meant that the series had no focus.
Yeah, I totally agree. I despised Lost by the end, and I was totally ready to hate The Leftovers, but the final season was just great because they focused on the characters instead of the mysteries.
 

Helio

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,236
EVIL MAGIC WATER

They ruined everything about the character
Hurley shouldn’t have made him number 2 after all of the shit Ben has pulled. Locke shouldn’t have forgiven Ben after all the shut he has done either.


Reetea has been building up to the end for a long time but I predicted his issue with it: half of season 6 doesn’t matter at all. The flash sideways do not matter. They have no stakes.
 

Helio

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,236
Oh man, I totoally forgot about that they showed the clips of the beach wreckage with no survivors during the finale credits which implied that it was all purgatory. No wonder people thought all of the events on the island was purgatory.
 

Altazor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,175
Chile
Just finished watching Part 7. As much as I like the show, I find myself agreeing with a lot of points this guy is making, tbh.

I loved how he totally eviscerated the "YOU JUST DIDN'T GET IT" excuse. God I hate fanboys/girls.

magic magic magic magic magic magic magic magic
 

oatmeal

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,618
Whoa this is so far up my alley it's not even funny.

Thanks for posting...this thread will be great.
 

WrenchNinja

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,493
Canada
Nearing the end of part 6. Jack's motive for arming the nuke was because Kate dumped him? What the fuck is this shit? Totally forgot that the nice old couple turned into apathetic assholes.
 

Helio

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,236
Nearing the end of part 6. Jack's motive for arming the nuke was because Kate dumped him? What the fuck is this shit? Totally forgot that the nice old couple turned into apathetic assholes.
Who cares if Jack wants to destroy the island with a nuke in the off chance it resets reality and basically conducts cosmic abortion on a couple of kids?
 

Agent Unknown

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,656
Ok spoilers below.

Season 1&2 were really enjoyable, the overall concept had so much potential. By the time season three was finished it steadily became one of the most arrogant, condescending, incompetently written and worst series in TV history with completely stupid and absolutely unsympathetic characters. It felt like a case of TV showrunners seriously having no idea what to do in the face of hype and initial success other than constantly pushing a narrative they at least had a loosely defined arc when clearly they didn't and were just spinning their wheels to keep the paychecks coming in. The Hatch stations, the Others, none of it matters. It's all just one endless red herring after another.

It's impossible to buy into the over emotional schlock Cuse, Lindelof and the writing staff try to force on the viewer constantly when nothing major anybody does in the series matters and "noble" sacrifices just end up enabling more misery or showing you how dumb the characters are. One example is Charlie sacrificing himself to get the distress signal to the "rescue" ship. Before dying there is the flashback where Charlie rescues a woman in an alley from being assaulted. The woman tells Charlie something to the effect "You are a hero! Don't let anyone tell you anything differently." It's a very touching scene, especially coupled with Charlie's death. Which is allllll completely undermined when of course Charlie signaling the rescue ship sent by Penny brings a bunch of mercenaries to the island (apparently Penny is an idiot who was completely oblivious that her rescue ship was manned by a bunch of killers) who murder a bunch of people including Danielle and Ben's daughter. So in the interest of offing yet another major character for little more than shock value, Charlie is not a hero, he's just an unwitting sap like everyone else on the show.

Then whenever fans would complain about a major character death Cuse and Lindelof would go on some condescending spiel on their podcast about "Oh you silly TV viewers who get so attached to characters, this isn't one of your cute little water cooler soaps, ok? We're trying to make a SERIOUS show here and sometimes people have to die in order for a show to be SERIOUS ya know??" when the problem wasn't people being "overattached" it was people being annoyed that another character had died with no meaningful plot payoff or just as said character had just started to evolve and become interesting (Shannon).

And nobody on the island on either side of the "conflict" knows what's going on. When it's revealed not even sub-immortal Richard Alpert knows what the point or purpose of the island is then why should the viewer be invested in the show's plot at that point when both sides are essentially just a bunch of mindless chess pieces with no end game or tangible goal other than ending up dead in a church in one of the most unauthentic "feel good" moments of all time (hey look! Jack's horrible alcoholic dad who constantly put patients' lives in danger is opening the door to heaven or something, isn't that nice?).

Edit: Oh yeah, forgot that not even Jacob could explain what was really going on with the island!

Oh yeah also gotta love the treatment of John Locke who goes from being a great character espousing the power of "faith" to nothing more than a patsy for the Smoke Monster which is retconned from being a "defense system" (which before the "Flocke" plot is what Cuse and Lindelof used to hint as to what the Smoke Monster essentially was supposed to be) to the embodiment of Jacob's "brother" rival, whatever who takes on Locke's appearance. John Locke, ladies and gentlemen! Just another dumb patsy on McGuffin Island who in the end accomplished nothing!

Just several examples of why this show is a hot mess. And then Lindelof and Cuse had the gall to characterize everyone who complained as "internet basement dwelling nerds who should try to write something themselves." Then writer George R.R. Martin in an interview dumps all over Lost's ending calling it a "steaming" mess. What's funny is Lindelof said that Carlton Cuse actually politely "confronted" Martin about this in person at an event later saying "Oh sorry, did we leave a steaming mess on your door, haha?" Martin didn't back down and told Cuse to his face that he still hated the ending. Oops.

I honestly can't think of a reason as to why anyone would rewatch Lost or what the value of rewatching it would be. I can go back and rewatch a show like Babylon 5 (one of the best arc based shows ever and one that Lindelof said was an influence) and always get something I missed in the plot the first time. With Lost what would a person get out of a rewatch other than endless cliffhangers that go nowhere and seeing a bunch of tragically stupid characters fighting for a non-existent cause that has no purpose other than "the island is this mysterious thing with a bunch of energy and stuff"?
 
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Altazor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,175
Chile
It's impossible to buy into the over emotional schlock Cuse, Lindelof and the writing staff try to force on the viewer constantly when nothing major anybody does in the series matters and "noble" sacrifices just end up enabling more misery or showing you how dumb the characters are. One example is Charlie sacrificing himself to get the distress signal to the "rescue." Before dying there is the flashback where Charlie rescues a woman in an alley from being assaulted. The woman tells Charlie something to the effect "You are a hero! Don't let anyone tell you anything differently." It's a very touching scene, especially coupled with Charlie's death. Which is allllll completely undermined when of course Charlie signaling the rescue ship sent by Penny brings a bunch of mercenaries to the island (apparently Penny is an idiot who was completely oblivious that her rescue ship was manned by a bunch of killers) who murder a bunch of people including Danielle and Ben's daughter. So in the interest of offing yet another major character for little more than shock value, Charlie is not a hero, he's just an unwitting sap like everyone else on the show.
Sorry man, I know what you're getting at with your post and all but I gotta nitpick: it literally wasn't Penny's boat - the mercenary team was sent by her father to capture Ben and kill everyone else (because of reasons). Penny's boat did make an appearance at the end of S4, when they rescue Desmond + the "Oceanic Six". So Charlie's sacrifice did mean something good: it alerted Penny that there were survivors of Oceanic 815, that they were on "an Island" and that Desmond was alive and with them. The mercenary team was coming anyway but the destruction of the Looking Glass inadvertently meant they could have the door open, so to speak.
 

Agent Unknown

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,656
Sorry man, I know what you're getting at with your post and all but I gotta nitpick: it literally wasn't Penny's boat - the mercenary team was sent by her father to capture Ben and kill everyone else (because of reasons). Penny's boat did make an appearance at the end of S4, when they rescue Desmond + the "Oceanic Six". So Charlie's sacrifice did mean something good: it alerted Penny that there were survivors of Oceanic 815, that they were on "an Island" and that Desmond was alive and with them. The mercenary team was coming anyway but the destruction of the Looking Glass inadvertently meant they could have the door open, so to speak.
Thanks for the clarification on that bit, but in the end Charlie's sacrifice still just ends up getting a bunch of people killed ya know? And I really didn't like how they killed Danielle and Alex, their deaths felt so cheap and meaningless like most of the deaths on the show. "Hey what are those flies swarming over? Oh it's just the corpse of Danielle who was supposed to be one of the most important and intriguing characters in the show who was unceremoniously killed off screen." But hey, at least Penny got to find out her boyfriend was alive. :/
 
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Altazor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,175
Chile
While watching Part 8 I'm reminded of how much I hated "Across the Sea". I really hate that episode - most disappointed I've been at a TV show ever.

Goddamit that episode's such a colossal, pretentious, insufferable waste of time.
 

Agent Unknown

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,656
I just watched the detailed breakdown in one of the videos about how Cuse and Lindelof totally lied and tried to blame Charlotte's age gaffe on Rebecca Mader, wow those two really were indeed a couple of hardcore, lying jerks. First I'd heard of this until this thread. I knew they'd lied constantly about having a set plan and concrete explanations for the show but the fact they were willing to publicly throw one of their own actresses under the bus in order to perpetuate this false narrative of theirs blows my mind.
 

Helio

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,236
While watching Part 8 I'm reminded of how much I hated "Across the Sea". I really hate that episode - most disappointed I've been at a TV show ever.

Goddamit that episode's such a colossal, pretentious, insufferable waste of time.
That episode was just pure garbage. It’s been so long since I’ve seen that episode, but it was such a letdown. An episode that is supposed to illuminate our understanding of everything just makes it more unclear. And it makes us sympathize with the MiB when he is supposed to be the ultimate evil. Dude just wanted to leave the island. That’s it.

I just watched the detailed breakdown in one of the videos about how Cuse and Lindelof totally lied and tried to blame Charlotte's age gaffe on Rebecca Mader, wow those two really were indeed a couple of hardcore, lying jerks. First I'd heard of this until this thread. I knew they'd lied constantly about having a set plan and concrete explanations for the show but the fact they were willing to publicly throw one of their own actresses under the bus in order to perpetuate this false narrative of theirs blows my mind.
They did it again by blaming the plane wreckage without survivors clips that aired after the series finale on ABC and then admitted years later that it was them. These guys are dicks.
 

Agent Unknown

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,656
They did it again by blaming the plane wreckage without survivors clips that aired after the series finale on ABC and then admitted years later that it was them.
Wow, just wow.

Neither of those two have done a lot of major projects of note afterwards, all this makes me think they created at least some bad blood in the industry behind the scenes considering how untrustworthy they obviously are.
 

gforguava

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,791
I just watched the detailed breakdown in one of the videos about how Cuse and Lindelof totally lied and tried to blame Charlotte's age gaffe on Rebecca Mader, wow those two really were indeed a couple of hardcore, lying jerks. First I'd heard of this until this thread. I knew they'd lied constantly about having a set plan and concrete explanations for the show but the fact they were willing to publicly throw one of their own actresses under the bus in order to perpetuate this false narrative of theirs blows my mind.
I just watched this part as well and it painted quite a negative image of those two. Like all of their duplicitous shit was largely known to me but that was really, really gross.

And great review thus far.

I don't always agree with his view on everything, I have a much more positive outlook on season 5 and he dissed Jack spiking the football in season 3 which is one of the greatest moments in LOST history, but I think he nails exactly the flaws of the show, even when the show was good. Can't wait 'til I get to the end of this 'cause my gods is that final season terrible.
 

Erigu

Member
Nov 4, 2017
472
Regarding the Rebecca Mader thing, for those who may be wondering, that's mentioned in part 5.

And yeah, Lindelof and Cuse's apology was absolutely full of shit, even beyond what's mentioned in the video...
They claimed they always meant for Charlotte's character to be in her late 30s, but before that whole debacle, they also said they originally had Kristen Bell in mind for that part. Kristen fucking Bell. Fresh out of Veronica Mars. As a woman in her late 30s. Riiiiight.
And those are the character bios /casting calls that leaked before Faraday and Charlotte's characters made their debut on the show:
Russell
Late 30s, a brilliant mathematician and deep thinker who is capable of great insights and has a tremendous knowledge across various scientific fields. He sometimes struggles socially by being too direct and disconnected in his interpersonal relationships. While an empiricist by trade he is humbled and fascinated by the magic and mystery of all in this world that cannot be explained by science.

Charlotte:
Late 20s. Very attractive in a naturalistic, athletic way, her looks are only one small part of charms. Precocious, loquacious, and funny, Charlotte a very successful academic who also knows how to handle herself in the real world. On a personal level it is hard to crack the hard shell of poise and certainty around her, but when it DOES crack its like an egg; lots of repressed and pent up emotions spill out.
(emphasis mine)


Neither of those two have done a lot of major projects of note afterwards
That might be true for Cuse, but Lindelof seems to be doing fine. Failing upwards.
 
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Sblargh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,503
I can enjoy the characters and the emotional beats of the show without having the answers, but man, everything about this show marketing at the time, and also the way it was written, screamed that the answers were important and coming.

And then on the final episodes they did a complete change of tone for "answers don't matter".
 

Altazor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,175
Chile
I can enjoy the characters and the emotional beats of the show without having the answers, but man, everything about this show marketing at the time, and also the way it was written, screamed that the answers were important and coming.

And then on the final episodes they did a complete change of tone for "answers don't matter".
and then, after the show, it became "answers never mattered, it was always about the characters" (something that blind fanboys/girls love to parrot together with "you just didn't get it, go watch something dumber")
 

Sblargh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,503
and then, after the show, it became "answers never mattered, it was always about the characters" (something that blind fanboys/girls love to parrot together with "you just didn't get it, go watch something dumber")
I won't confirm nor deny saying one or two of those things at the time.
 

Helio

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,236
Disagree. While the final season had a number of issues, I think the final episode is one of the best endings to any show ever. Beautifully done.
It’s an ending that makes half of the season worthless. Half of the season was a literal waste of time. That’s not a good ending.
 

Jam

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,750
Watched the first few episode and it just flooded back memories and made me irrefutably angry at the show all over again. The sheer brazenness of the writers and producers in how they handled the show.

They knew exactly what they were doing. No not having a finely tuned long term plan. But making it up as they went along and baited and teasing viewers with continuous mysteries and lies and moving the goalposts over and over. Like a gameplay loop. They played every single one of their viewers and they knew they were doing it.

Enjoyed the review so far will keep watching. It's just kind of cathartic to see the show dismantled.

Loved the show. Yet also hated it. Then I just felt sad about it.
 

Sblargh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,503
What other show has an ensemble this big where every character is this interesting? I think there is merit in saying you like the show despite all the problems because of the characters and so I think there is merit in the end because despite all the bullshit, it is a very proper goodbye to these people we grew to like so much.
 

GMM

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,703
What other show has an ensemble this big where every character is this interesting? I think there is merit in saying you like the show despite all the problems because of the characters and so I think there is merit in the end because despite all the bullshit, it is a very proper goodbye to these people we grew to like so much.
Fantastic characters like Nikki and Paolo.



A lot of the characters where pretty interesting, it’s just a shame how poorly some characters were used.