I won't. A reseters more up to this page began to watch it, and said he stopped because he didn't want to feel bad because he loves Lost, by watching videos saying how it was bad.
That doesn't encourage me to watch it.
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Reetae reviews the ending of LOST by comprehensively reviewing the series.
- Thread starter Arta
- Start date
I won't. A reseters more up to this page began to watch it, and said he stopped because he didn't want to feel bad because he loves Lost, by watching videos saying how it was bad.
That doesn't encourage me to watch it.
Exactly, I'm in the same boat. It was all about the journey and I'd honestly be interested in someone analyzing the show from that point of view instead of hearing one more time "they didn't have any answers/they made it up as they went along, they're hacks" like always.
Then, there can't be any discussion, and I'm not sure why you keep posting.
I was thrilled by any reference from previous episodes this show had.
From "don't tell me what i can"t do" phrase (or whatever happened, happenned :p ) to other little sneakpeak details.
It was a giant "19" from The Dark Tower, but not only with numbers but also with situations and phrases.
And this is truly big and awesome (only Breaking Bad did it).
Does anyone remember how they felt after that Desmond episode when he lived again his flashback? With that Eloise Hawking scene in the jewelry? This scene was awesome because the writers were telling us "Guys flashback aren't just made to know characters, they are linked to the island, and it's important".
The true purpose of the show is to tell the audience "you will make mistakes in your life, you need to let go if that happen, and accept it."
That's why the "whatever happened, happened" or Hawking scene "no you can"t change the past. You won't take the ring, and you will NOT marry Penny. THAT'S IT!'
I understand people being frustrated with the flashsideways, but create an alternative timeline when people have the life they want without mistakes would truly eraze the whole point of the show which is:
"Don't look back to the civilisation. You have to move forward".
If the point of this topic is watching a video telling us they didn't answer Walt mystery and that writers create a BIG BIG sceenario and at one point they was Lost in this but they continue to tell the audience they know what they were doing
I'm aware of that.
But like is said, i would respond "if their purpose was to tell us to move forward in our life even if it's truly difficult, then they did the job for me.
I will never know what the Tampa Job was, or what happened between 1977 and 2000 on the island but...whatever. I know why the Oceanic 815 guys were on this island, and that matters."
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Well, I binge-watched this entire thing yesterday. It was basically my entire day, lol.
Great stuff. He brings up a ton of valid points (many of which I had noted myself, some that I hadn't) that show how poorly/not planned out this show really was. There are so many moments of "why are they actually doing this?". I remember thinking that at the time as well, but probably thought I had just missed something so I didn't get it. But no, so much of this stuff simply has no logic or reason behind it. Stuff just happens, people just do stuff. There was never a grand plan, no meaning behind most mysteries.
I still love Lost for what it once was, for the experience of following it back when we all thought it was going somewhere, but as he said in the review it could have been looked back on as one of the greatest shows ever created. Shame.
Great stuff. He brings up a ton of valid points (many of which I had noted myself, some that I hadn't) that show how poorly/not planned out this show really was. There are so many moments of "why are they actually doing this?". I remember thinking that at the time as well, but probably thought I had just missed something so I didn't get it. But no, so much of this stuff simply has no logic or reason behind it. Stuff just happens, people just do stuff. There was never a grand plan, no meaning behind most mysteries.
I still love Lost for what it once was, for the experience of following it back when we all thought it was going somewhere, but as he said in the review it could have been looked back on as one of the greatest shows ever created. Shame.
But they made mistakes in the afterlife dream. Constantly. It wasn't all perfect in this dream they created for themselves. And then it turned out that it all didn't matter.
Why the afterlife "dream" didn't matter?
It's cool that you have a response to what you imagine is the only argument of a series of videos you're not willing to watch.
Because it's a dream. There's a reason why "it was all a dream" endings are reviled. There are no stakes. None of it mattered, not even to the characters. Remember, Jack left his son because he wasn't real.
Man I just finished part 8. What a fucking ride. This really was a fantastic series of videos. Definitely going to subscribe. I see he has a forty minute Final Fantasy XV review, interested to see what he has to say about it.
But...it had a meaning. A purpose.
During 6 seasons, Jack is having daddy's issues. It was the mose miserable character of all of them. The most Lost in his life.
Giving him a son was to make him realise that he will never be a good dad to prove himself that he's better than Christian was. Because he didn't have a son.
This will not going to happen.
The afterlife was a fantasy for all characters for what they truly want but if they stay in it, they will be stuck in this dream forever and they will never move forward.
I mean, if your girlfriend broke up with you because you cheated, you can regret it. You can mourn this pain. But you will NEVER be able to go back to change this. Whatever happen, happened. This is the whole true point of the island purpose!
Helio, rewatch this scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZGa98vNvY8
This is the whole point of LOST. A guy that want to fix things so bad that he can even let his friends die to fix things.
This is the whole point of LOST. A guy that want to fix things so bad that he can even let his friends die to fix things.
I don't understand your sentence about Jack.
The fantasy is not about what they want most. Locke is paralyzed. Sayid isn't married to the love of his life. Keamy is still threatening to kill some of the main cast. Jack and Juliett are married with a son, but the two of them are paired off with different people at the end... I don't think you're interpreting it correctly.
And yes, it did not matter. Once you say something is all a dream, the stakes ceases to matter. Why should I care about any of the "problems" in the afterlife when it is all a dream and their mistakes will result in absolutely no consequences?
Consequence here equals to "they didn't learnt anything from the island if they are stuck here"
The purpose of the island adventures is to make them understand they need to move forward.
Why Jacob would choose someone to be the protector of the island if he didn't want to stay on it?
That's why Kate name was crossed during the show because she "became" a mother with Aaron.
I think you are blocked by "it was a dream so this doesn't exist" but the whole point is that , that "dream" exist because they had to pass this to go to the afterworld
I mean, the show specifically said that the light on that cave ARE the flash sideways
I'm not talking about the island adventures. I'm talking specifically of the afterlife stuff. The point of the dream stuff is so they spend more time with each other before moving on. They created it themselves. Even so, it renders all of the stakes presented in that afterlife moot.
Did it?
"Like after that bunker exploded", you also said. But Desmond didn't go to the flash-sideways then, did he? He went back in time. Maybe the light / electromagnetism just allows him to do amazing stuff, like going back or forward in time (the so-called "flash-sideways" really were flashforwards, in the end)? To claim that light is the flash-sideways is a leap.
In any case, you claimed the show specifically said that the light of the Heart of the Island was the flash-sideways, but I don't believe that's true, and you apparently have no quote to offer...
Are you implying that there is different light pocket under the island and each one of them would go into an alternative universe like a Fringe plot? =o
I mean... During the flashsideways, especially at the end, losties relived their whole life when they "wake up" .
Isn't that what Desmond did after the bunker explode?
MIB prove it was the same energy since the light behind that "wheel" have electromagnetism (he use his weapon to show that)
EDIT: And desmond said it during the series finale to Jack! He went to the afterlife!
I'm not sure how you got that from my post, but it doesn't look like you're paying attention.
Arguing that the light is the afterlife itself because the light allowed Desmond to experience the flash-sideways (when it doesn't make him go back in time, kill pregnant women, move the island... the light does so many things, really!), is akin to arguing the bullet that killed Ana-Lucia is the afterlife because it's what got her there.
Not that we'd need to talk about all that if the show actually specifically stated that the light of the cave was the flash-sideways, but as far as I know, it never did.
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Will you please stop? First, you keep bringing up GoT when it isn't relevant. Second, you aren't even honest about your discussion of S7 or GoT, since yes D&D did have most things planned from the start because they had the books to follow. And, post-S4 has received plenty of criticism and backlash now that they've run out of books and have relied further on their own original writing. Still, it's clear they know where and how the series ends. Dalton routinely LIED about planning the series out, lied about future plot points, lied about simple mistakes they made, and insult fans for caring about mysteries they built and hyped up.
Lastly, you haven't even watched the video and are basically upset the show is being criticized at all. Watch the video or just stop.
Well i'm out of this topic.
I dont' want people to force me accept that Lost was a bad tv show.
I really hope for you that the season 8 of GoT will tell you who gave LF knife to the assassin who tried to kill Bran.
Because if the book did, the tv show didn't yet.
There goes that persecution again and second "well I'm out" statement. You are being disingenuous with your posting in this thread. You try to argue points people aren't making. You keep bringing up GoT when it has nothing to do with this thread and the thinnest connection is moot because that show also receives plenty of criticism.
I think you can't handle the criticism of a show you love. No one is trying to force you to stop loving Lost. We are just presenting reasons as to why it's bad and why we don't like it. You can keep loving all you want; no one is going to stop you. But stop with the persecution complex.
First, you keep holding to this view that the video creator hates LOST, which he doesn't. People generally don't make hours long videos about things they hate. In fact, when all is said and done he STILL would reccommend LOST to newcomers, just with a huge caveat regarding the mysteries and the ending.
Second, your GoT example is funny because it is answered in the book. Again, it's why fans tend to get upset when they, for the sake of TV, abandon plot threads they consider tertiary in a race to finish the big plot. Everyone can see clearly they have an end set and planned in mind, the upsetting part is that it no longer feels natural but more forced due to their source running out.
LF gave Joffrey the knife who hired an assassin to kill Bran because he heard his father drunkenly speak about how Bran would be better off dead. And, Joff always just wanted to please his father.
Yes, you already said that was why you didn't want to watch the videos this thread is about, and you apparently don't realize how silly that stance is. You're basically ignoring / cowering from others' arguments as soon as you fear they might be effective.
For all your posturing earlier in this topic ("I don't even need to watch those videos because I've heard it all", "challenge me", etc), it really doesn't look like you can take part in this discussion, so yes, unless you're willing to change your attitude a tiny bit, you should probably stop posting here.
Glad someone took the time to summarize Lost's flaws especially in the context of what the showrunners were saying (for years!) about their intentions and designs. It's a long analysis but the last chapter where Reetae tries to bring all of the threads and contradictions together to make sense of the ending is epic.
All that said, I still have a soft spot for Lost. It's such an amazing and simple premise for television show - never has such nonsensical writing been acted out with such sincerity by such a good-looking cast with such a divine score.
All that said, I still have a soft spot for Lost. It's such an amazing and simple premise for television show - never has such nonsensical writing been acted out with such sincerity by such a good-looking cast with such a divine score.
Lost is a very good show that did many, many things right. The ending, and the construction leading to the ending is supremely dissatisying.
This video series meticulously dissects the ending and explains why it has a bad ending, and how the show manipulates characterizations to arrive at it.
I think if Season 6 somehow was never made for whatever reason, the show would have attain mythical status. Its easy to promise things and hard to deliver.
I havent watched these yet (due to time), but let me ask this.
I see comments about the showrunners answers and comments on the series. Are these reviews taking what the showrunners said about the series and applying that somehow? That sounds unfair, the work should be only criticized by what was made, not what may or may not have been said about it.
I see comments about the showrunners answers and comments on the series. Are these reviews taking what the showrunners said about the series and applying that somehow? That sounds unfair, the work should be only criticized by what was made, not what may or may not have been said about it.
I think the show runners comments are fair game because those comments led to severe disappointment. People stuck with Lost on the promise that it would provide answers but it turned out that it was a lie. There was so much surrounding the show at the time. You had to watch it as it aired.
But the review isn't only about that. It goes into character motivations and development as well.
But the review isn't only about that. It goes into character motivations and development as well.
He critiques the show in and of itself. But he also critiques the show in relation to what the showrunners said about what they were doing at the time and after the fact. Imo its fair. What they say should reflect in the show.
His biggest argument is the flaws of the show are because they generally made it up as they went along. The clear position of the showrunners and the show is that in general there was a very long term gameplan and early things were done for a reason to setup longer term things.
So one informs the others. If you had a long term plan and said you had a long term plan then why doesn't X,Y, or Z issue make sense. And in fact it makes more sense for X,Y, and Z issue to be that way because you did make it up as you went along.
But he also flat out critizes X, Y, Z issue immertial of whether it was planned or not. That some decisions were just bad decisions or bad directions just in making a coherent TV show in general based on what was established in earlier seasons.
Great, I plan on watching during the weekend when I have time. I understand critiquing the showrunners but their comments on the series shouldn't change the series. Most people won't engage with that, most people just watch the TV. So expectations set anywhere outside of the show even by the creators shouldn't be taken into a wide account.
I also think the idea that "making it up as you go along" is dumb. Everything is made up as the creator went along, no one has a grand vision unless they are regurgitating a complete work. it's all fiction, but I will wait to see the way in which that concept is portrayed in this.
Like I've said before, I'm not the world's biggest stickler when it comes to having a grand vision. That being said, I think the showrunners for this show were always a little shady about how they handled the truth about how they did this show. And that's how I felt back in the day before even watching the video. They definitely did some things that aren't cool imo when it comes to being truthful and misleading.
I think Ron Moore and how he handled fan "backlash" with BSG was more honest and that goes a long way for me. It doesn't change the reception or how a person feels about the show in general but its nice to be treated more like an adult having an honest conversation versus being kind of treated like a consumer.
The issue is that the showrunners swore again and again that they had a grand master plan, that it was all planned out, that we were getting answers. Then that turned out not to be true, and people were understandably disappointed. That's fair to criticize, IMO.
Actually, their grand vision was their Show Bible. TV shows always change. None of them will adhere fully to whatever plan the creators come up with, but they do try to stick with their vision. The Wire stuck to its vision throughout its entire run. So did Battlestar Galactica and Breaking Bad. Lost didn't. Lost was supposed to be more grounded than what we got. Still, just because they changed from science fiction to fantasy isn't bad in itself. What was frustrating is that they kept piling mysteries upon mysteries with no regard as to the resolution to these mysteries. That's the "making it all up as they go along."
Yeah if this video series focus's more on the showrunners then I probably won't finish it. They are not the context in which the series was made to be watched. Also grand plans will always disappoint you, things are not born into reality as complete works. It will never be the case.
Yes but not within the context of the show. Most people dont engage with this stuff, I understand it's a part of the series as a cultural point, but not for the show. The show was the product they made, and it should be broken down based on those elements only. I'm not interested in hearing more arguments about being misled by showrunners who were constantly harassed for half a decade and tried to keep their series a mystery.
There's also the issue of not knowing what something is when they introduce it. I don't expect them to know on season 2 what Jack or Sawyer will be doing on season 5, but I expect that if they introduce the Others on Season 2, they know, on season 2, who the Others are, that if they worship Jacob on season 2, that they know, on season 2, who Jacob is, you know?
Stuff like the smoke monster, they definetly had no idea of what was making those trees fall down, it was just a cool scene, and it was, and it was effective, and as an isolated moment it is perfect television, but how do you write, produce, film and air a scene where "something tears down trees while making a mechanical roar" and you simply doesn't know what it is. Then you go "oh, it's a smoke monster" and, again, you writge, film, air and you don't know what *that* is. And he is judging people by making them see the past, so again, write, produce, air, not knowing why he is judging people, and so on.
Isn't it reasonable to expect that the showrunner knows what is going on with the things that they are putting on screen? I guess that's why people like me were in such a heavy denial during the show that it was obvious they weren't making it up on the fly, because you can't possibly be spending all that hollywood dollars putting something on the screen and not knowing what it was.
Stuff like the smoke monster, they definetly had no idea of what was making those trees fall down, it was just a cool scene, and it was, and it was effective, and as an isolated moment it is perfect television, but how do you write, produce, film and air a scene where "something tears down trees while making a mechanical roar" and you simply doesn't know what it is. Then you go "oh, it's a smoke monster" and, again, you writge, film, air and you don't know what *that* is. And he is judging people by making them see the past, so again, write, produce, air, not knowing why he is judging people, and so on.
Isn't it reasonable to expect that the showrunner knows what is going on with the things that they are putting on screen? I guess that's why people like me were in such a heavy denial during the show that it was obvious they weren't making it up on the fly, because you can't possibly be spending all that hollywood dollars putting something on the screen and not knowing what it was.
Fine, but it still points to the underlying issue. They didn't know where pretty much anything was going, and in the end it's mostly a confusing mess where nothing makes sense, nothing happens for any logical reason, and there are no answers.
Like, the entire ending (on the island) is just... wow. I actually didn't remember how incredibly dumb it all is before watching this review. Nothing that happens in the final few scenes makes any sense. At all.
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The best example I can give is Walt. Walt was something that was always handled terribly. Just terribly from every conceivable angle but especially from a plot perspective. So that's a nasty black mark on the show from the very beginning to the very last episode. So that's bad.
It's even worse imo because the producers constantly always lied about it. Up until the very end.
For me something like that goes hand in hand. Not only did you bungle something. But you kept lying to try to excuse your bungle. That's not cool. That's not adult. And its a flaw of the show. It's not enough to make me not like the show. But its definitely a bad thing.
The showrunners did that with a lot of stuff. And while it may not bother some people it definitely bothers others, especially when the lie coinicides with a sub-par plot element.
It's even worse imo because the producers constantly always lied about it. Up until the very end.
For me something like that goes hand in hand. Not only did you bungle something. But you kept lying to try to excuse your bungle. That's not cool. That's not adult. And its a flaw of the show. It's not enough to make me not like the show. But its definitely a bad thing.
The showrunners did that with a lot of stuff. And while it may not bother some people it definitely bothers others, especially when the lie coinicides with a sub-par plot element.
Why do people pop into this thread to chime in on criticism that's already addressed in the video series that they haven't watched
To be fair it is 10 hours of video but yeah watching the video would help deter a lot of criticisms. Not that a person can't have other criticisms or not agree with some of the criticisms in the video but all the easy low hanging fruit stuff has already been covered. The video is not just some random hater dude that spews on about nothing which is so common in youtube videos. It's 10 hours of pretty solid material even if ultimately you come to a different conclusion about the show.
It does suck that it is a 10 hour review. A fifth of its runtime and we'd be getting more discussion rather than peeps popping in and not engaging on issues brought up in the videos.
just like the series itself funnily enough, it could've done with some trimming. Reetae sometimes spends a bit too much time making the same point over and over again so it feels like nitpicking, when a simpler, shortest statement could've worked just as well. His exaggerated delivery at points also does him no favors IMHO, taking away from the idea of a comprehensive, in-depth review/critique into the realm of YOUTUBER SCREAMING AT THE SCREEN FOR ATTENTION LOL! And I sometimes cringed at his sense of humor.
Though that last couple of things might be more of a "NO FUN ALLOWED" thing from me, heh.
In any case, I think the videos are totally worth it - even for LOST fans, as long as it's understood that it's alright to like flawed things -because everything is- and it's alright for other people to not like those things. That it's OK for people to like this series despite its glaring flaws and obvious (IMHO) shortcomings, but here's a chance for you to understand why other people don't, instead of just rushing to the "YOU JUST DIDN'T GET IT/2DEEP4U" excuse.
EDIT: And that's from a perpsective of a LOST fan. I fucking love the first 4 seasons (except for, like, half of S2 and the first bunch of episodes of S3, which were a drag), and I still think "Through the Looking Glass" and "The Constant" are some of the best things I've ever seen on TV.
Reetea did linger on some issues that I consider insignificant way too long like the numbers being on the side of the hatch and not in the hatch itself. It's a production mistake and while he did address that production mistakes happen, I don't think that much time should've been given to it.
If you're a fan of anything, you should be willing to listen to criticism about it without it damaging your love of that piece. No one should be afraid that their bubble will burst from watching these videos. Acknowledge the shortcomings and then say "But I still love it." There's nothing wrong about loving things others dislike or hate or are critical. Sometimes shows and movies and games hit us at the right moment emotionally.
The pilot is some damn good television. I have love for The Constant and Ab Aeterno. The latter was a gem in the final season.
If you're a fan of anything, you should be willing to listen to criticism about it without it damaging your love of that piece. No one should be afraid that their bubble will burst from watching these videos. Acknowledge the shortcomings and then say "But I still love it." There's nothing wrong about loving things others dislike or hate or are critical. Sometimes shows and movies and games hit us at the right moment emotionally.
The pilot is some damn good television. I have love for The Constant and Ab Aeterno. The latter was a gem in the final season.
This is seriously your first reply after this?
You ignore the video the topic is about and make incorrect claims that are covered in the video. When people correct you on it you stop replying for a bit and start up like nothing has happened? I enjoyed a lot of lost when it aired and I enjoyed watching these videos and reading this topic but the way you are acting is really derailing this topic for me.
I finished the review, entertaining to say the least, and appreciate the time he put into this.
Man, as someone that really never followed the podcasts or producer interviews, I am kind of flabbergasted how many times they lied throughout and how many contradictions he was able to point out. Would it really have been the worst thing in the world if they said "we are making this up as we go along, but we're doing our best, please bear with us"? I'm guessing ABC said you better not say shit like that or the ratings will go down. The "master plan" with regards to the mysteries and what the island is what drew viewers in droves.
My favorite is when Darlton said things like "there are reveals in season 6 that will be definitive proof that we had the whole show mapped out from the beginning". LOL, if anything, it disproved that notion. Adam and Eve are Mother and MIB? Mother is introduced in one of the last episodes of Season 6 and MiB the season 5 finale. If there was ever a hint or dialogue in the previous 4 season of their existence, then maybe, you could give them credit. But nope. They obviously had written themselves in a corner and had no way out as the reviewer explains. Especially since its a glaring continuity error.
Another thing that bothers me is the stakes of the show. He says because of the purgatory reveal, there are no stakes, but I somewhat disagree with that. There are none that are shown, because we keep hearing that MiB is horrible and will destroy everyone off the island, but there is not even a threat of that. He becomes human with no powers after the source/cork stuff, so what would he even do when he is off the island? His backstory in Across the Sea actually makes him sympathetic because he'd been living a lie his whole life when he discovered he wasn't even from the island. What a mess.
This review did it bring it into perspective for me, as someone that loved the show (and still do and hold it in high regard), because when watching it, some of the nonsensical things going on were given a pass just based on wanting to get to the final scene and see how it wraps up. I still think the final episode itself is a good one, just not a good finale for a show that upped the ante like LOST.
Man, as someone that really never followed the podcasts or producer interviews, I am kind of flabbergasted how many times they lied throughout and how many contradictions he was able to point out. Would it really have been the worst thing in the world if they said "we are making this up as we go along, but we're doing our best, please bear with us"? I'm guessing ABC said you better not say shit like that or the ratings will go down. The "master plan" with regards to the mysteries and what the island is what drew viewers in droves.
My favorite is when Darlton said things like "there are reveals in season 6 that will be definitive proof that we had the whole show mapped out from the beginning". LOL, if anything, it disproved that notion. Adam and Eve are Mother and MIB? Mother is introduced in one of the last episodes of Season 6 and MiB the season 5 finale. If there was ever a hint or dialogue in the previous 4 season of their existence, then maybe, you could give them credit. But nope. They obviously had written themselves in a corner and had no way out as the reviewer explains. Especially since its a glaring continuity error.
Another thing that bothers me is the stakes of the show. He says because of the purgatory reveal, there are no stakes, but I somewhat disagree with that. There are none that are shown, because we keep hearing that MiB is horrible and will destroy everyone off the island, but there is not even a threat of that. He becomes human with no powers after the source/cork stuff, so what would he even do when he is off the island? His backstory in Across the Sea actually makes him sympathetic because he'd been living a lie his whole life when he discovered he wasn't even from the island. What a mess.
This review did it bring it into perspective for me, as someone that loved the show (and still do and hold it in high regard), because when watching it, some of the nonsensical things going on were given a pass just based on wanting to get to the final scene and see how it wraps up. I still think the final episode itself is a good one, just not a good finale for a show that upped the ante like LOST.
I watched the whole videos.
I understand the critics about Darlton. I never denied thhat
But reading those reactions on this topics it's like they are the worst of all.
I will keep loving this show and this story and i don't find inconsistencies about the Lost story. Sorry about that.
Btw, we can still see the kind of "Lost vibe" in many shows.
I understand the critics about Darlton. I never denied thhat
But reading those reactions on this topics it's like they are the worst of all.
I will keep loving this show and this story and i don't find inconsistencies about the Lost story. Sorry about that.
Btw, we can still see the kind of "Lost vibe" in many shows.