It's an ending that makes half of the season worthless. Half of the season was a literal waste of time. That's not a good ending.
Anything that involves plugging a giant wine cork into an island's hole isn't a good ending
It's an ending that makes half of the season worthless. Half of the season was a literal waste of time. That's not a good ending.
just checking in to say that I love Lost, warts and all. A thing a lot of people forget is that the air surrounding the show had built up so much hype over the answers that there was nothing they could do to deliver a satisfying ending. It may seem easier in retrospect, with all these years we have to look back upon the show and it's faults, but man, Lost was caught between a rock and a hard place. I found myself really empathizing with the direction it took because it tried to focus on being emotionally satisfying instead of trying to please those hooked on the lore, like I had been for so long. It would have been an impossible task.
And it set up things and then properly paid them off.Babylon 5.
And it has an amazingly tight story arc to go with its great characters not to mention a tear jerker of an ending that treats both the show and its viewers with respect.
It is also an ending you can put at the end of any show and it work just as well. It is a feel-good curtain call of an ending and nothing else.It's an ending that makes half of the season worthless. Half of the season was a literal waste of time. That's not a good ending.
They shouldn't have piled up so many mysteries in the first place. Weird island, monster, coincidences, faith VS facts, all of those are good. They created the problem themselves and did it to fool us.
I mean, you can argue you were entertained being led by people who had no idea what they were doing, but you were still being led by people who had no idea what they were doing.
I mean, I really cannot empathise with the people behind the show at all. Cuse and Lindeolf shouldn't have encouraged this hype for 5 seasons and then went and had an about turn with season 6. They should not have lied constantly. They should have just admitted they had no idea what they were doing, or admitted they had made mistakes and that there was no master plan at work here.just checking in to say that I love Lost, warts and all. A thing a lot of people forget is that the air surrounding the show had built up so much hype over the answers that there was nothing they could do to deliver a satisfying ending. It may seem easier in retrospect, with all these years we have to look back upon the show and it's faults, but man, Lost was caught between a rock and a hard place. I found myself really empathizing with the direction it took because it tried to focus on being emotionally satisfying instead of trying to please those hooked on the lore, like I had been for so long. It would have been an impossible task.
I mean, I really cannot empathise with the people behind the show at all. Cuse and Lindeolf shouldn't have encouraged this hype for 5 seasons and then went and had an about turn with season 6.
How about just not lying? There's like shit in this video series that is really illuminating on how often they did it. Everything will have a logical and reasonable explanation? Nope. There won't be time travel in the show? Nope. There won't be alternate universe shit cause that would hurt the stakes of the show? Nope. Dead means dead? Nope. We killed Libby off but we have some huge reveals about her later? Nope. And it just goes on and on and on. It's ridiculous that there is all of this evidence of them doing this.What did you want them to say? "Watch our show! Expect nothing!"? ABC would fire them, lmao.
How about just not lying? There's like shit in this video series that is really illuminating on how often they did it. Everything will have a logical and reasonable explanation? Nope. There won't be time travel in the show? Nope. There won't be alternate universe shit cause that would hurt the stakes of the show? Nope. Dead means dead? Nope. We killed Libby off but we have some huge reveals about her later? Nope. And it just goes on and on and on. It's ridiculous that there is all of this evidence of them doing this.
Dead did mean dead though. Characters never came back to life. We just saw spirits and visions.
I find it personally interesting as a creator that people assume creators have everything figured out from day one and nothing ever changes ever. It's a very immature look at the creative process with a very shackling set of expectations that storytellers would loathe to have imposed on them. And that if you ever deviate from a plan in favour of one you find more interesting, it's called "lying", now. Christ.
Dead did mean dead though. Characters never came back to life. We just saw spirits and visions.
I find it personally interesting as a creator that people assume creators have everything figured out from day one and nothing ever changes ever. It's a very immature look at the creative process with a very shackling set of expectations that storytellers would loathe to have imposed on them.
Sayid comes back to life.Dead did mean dead though. Characters never came back to life. We just saw spirits and visions.
I find it personally interesting as a creator that people assume creators have everything figured out from day one and nothing ever changes ever. It's a very immature look at the creative process with a very shackling set of expectations that storytellers would loathe to have imposed on them. And that if you ever deviate from a plan in favour of one you find more interesting, it's called "lying", now. Christ.
And S6 Sayid was just... what... faking dead?
People probably assumed that here because the creators themselves repeatedly stated as much. And, no, generally I don't expect that, but when you drop things like Jacob's cabin or tease at things like Libby having more significance, I do expect you to know the payoffs for those things. If you deliberately introduce a mystery and call attention to it, you better know what you're doing.
I don't assume that at all. Saying you're not doing a thing and then doing the thing, and having this scenario repeatedly play out, sure sounds like compulsive lying. Blaming one of your actresses for a mistake and then it coming out after the actress calls you out that you made it up sounds like a fucking a lie.
I'm not a mind reader, I just bothered to watch these videos.
I actually forgot about Sayid in S6. It's been a while. Chalk that up to my bad. But I think I'm getting beside the point here, and was beside the point by even bringing that up in the first place.
Anyway. The show did know what it was doing. It just changed what it was doing when the showrunners found an answer they thought was better or more satisfying. Even then, It is entirely normal in the creative process of a several year project for creators to become interested in different things, or become less interested in following up on something else later. Storytelling like this is a constantly evolving and changing process, and Lost had more freedom than most shows because it held back it's full hand whenever things happened. That means that the contents of what it was holding back changed.
This is backed up by an essay from someone who was actually in the writer's room of lost itself. http://okbjgm.weebly.com/uploads/3/1/5/0/31506003/lost_will_final.pdf
It is incredibly naiive to hold writers to something as strictly as you appear to be. The process is always evolving, and always changing, as the people behind the process itself constantly evolve and change.
But it's not a lie. The fact that it wound up to be untrue does not make it a lie. Lying requires intent to mislead. The point is that what the creators wanted to do with the show changed. Whatever they said when they said it, they had the intention of sticking to it.
Lost was on the air for six years. Six. Years. That's over half a decade. Expecting the creator's intentions or plans or whatever to never deviate over that time is fucking insane.
I largely agree. It's not realistic to expect things not to change and I'm all for giving creatives some slack on that.
The problem is, and this is where we differ obviously, I absolutely believe there was intent to mislead. I realize the video series in the OP is really really long, but I would encourage you to watch it, as part of the point of the length is just the sheer number of times they mislead, either intentionally or not, and the promised x but didn't deliver. It's really hard to see all of it laid out and believe they weren't intentionally deceiving on some level.
The attempts in this thread to twist the writers of this show's intent into something malicious are ridiculous.
The video review has numerous interviews, audio from the Lost podcasts, behind the scenes footage, audio commentary, etc juxtaposed with what happened on the show as evidence of them trying to mislead viewers. Like you can handwave this if you want to since no one's forcing you to watch, but there's absolutely no way you're convincing me that they werent straight up lying about Charlotte's actress telling them to lower the age of the character and then lying some more when they got called out on it blaming the continuity consultant.Appealing to the videos doesn't mean you wouldn't have to be a mind reader to say that the creators intended to "lie".
I wish everything could end with a light cave and a cork in the ground.Anything that involves plugging a giant wine cork into an island's hole isn't a good ending
The video review has numerous interviews, audio from the Lost podcasts, behind the scenes footage, audio commentary, etc juxtaposed with what happened on the show as evidence of them trying to mislead viewers. Like you can handwave this if you want to since no one's forcing you to watch, but there's absolutely no way you're convincing me that they werent straight up lying about Charlotte's actress telling them to lower the age of the character and then lying some more when they got called out on it blaming the continuity consultant.
It's telling that there's only one example that everyone seems to be pointing to, whereas everything else is just vague gesturing in the direction of a many-hour long video essay that they expect everyone to watch before arguing with them.
It's telling that there's only one example that everyone seems to be pointing to, whereas everything else is just vague gesturing in the direction of a many-hour long video essay that they expect everyone to watch before arguing with them. "The creators were dicks once, that means that they were dicks all of the time!".
There is also the time they clearly lied about ABC putting in those buffer footage for the end credit of the final episode when they were the ones who did it.It's telling that there's only one example that everyone seems to be pointing to, whereas everything else is just vague gesturing in the direction of a many-hour long video essay that they expect everyone to watch before arguing with them. "The creators were dicks once, that means that they were dicks all of the time!".
I generally expect people who enter a thread about a video review series to at least try to watch some of it before posting about it.It's telling that there's only one example that everyone seems to be pointing to, whereas everything else is just vague gesturing in the direction of a many-hour long video essay that they expect everyone to watch before arguing with them.
Not only were they lying but the fact that tried to blame the actress for that plot hole is one of the most dick head moves I've seen. All just to cover up the idea that they goofed writing the consistency of the timeline.The video review has numerous interviews, audio from the Lost podcasts, behind the scenes footage, audio commentary, etc juxtaposed with what happened on the show as evidence of them trying to mislead viewers. Like you can handwave this if you want to since no one's forcing you to watch, but there's absolutely no way you're convincing me that they werent straight up lying about Charlotte's actress telling them to lower the age of the character and then lying some more when they got called out on it blaming the continuity consultant.
Many of us watched the series months ago. And I actually rewatched that segment to pull out those examples earlier for a very similar reason.
You denied there was any malicious attempt to deceive. A malicious intent to deceive is then pointed out, which you're handwaving away because it goes against your narrative. It doesn't matter how many examples we have, as you didn't mention you needed a specific number before.
People are pointing to it because you're handwaving the more plothole esque contradictions as leeway that should be afforded to creatives. Like, fine, you like the series and you believe them. That's great, but if you aren't going to actually watch the vids the thread is based on, I'm not sure what other discussion can take place here. I respect that it takes a lot of time to watch the vid, but you should also respect that those of us who already watched it don't won't to waste our time transcribing all the points from a 10 hour video series when you could just watch the vids themselves to get them.
Then, bye, this thread isn't for you.I watched the series as it aired and was heavily invested in all of the gossip and talk surrounding the show at the time. I don't need to watch a 10 hour recap to be qualified to talk about Lost.
It does matter how many examples you have because you are arguing that the showrunners were malicious in their intent throughout the entirety of the show and one example just doesn't back that up, bucko. I'm sorry if those standards are too high for you, but you guys are the one to bring it to that level, not me.
The attempts in this thread to twist the writers of this show's intent into something malicious are ridiculous.
One example...It does matter how many examples you have because you are arguing that the showrunners were malicious in their intent throughout the entirety of the show and one example just doesn't back that up, bucko. I'm sorry if those standards are too high for you, but you guys are the one to bring it to that level, not me.
I watched the series as it aired and was heavily invested in all of the gossip and talk surrounding the show at the time. I don't need to watch a 10 hour recap to be qualified to talk about Lost.
Many people have posted in this thread and have given opinions about the show without watching a 10 hour review. Those people were actively involved in the discussion at hand and posted their thoughts on the show itself, because it's not just about the review, it's also about the show it's reviewing.
It's telling that there's only one example that everyone seems to be pointing to, whereas everything else is just vague gesturing in the direction of a many-hour long video essay that they expect everyone to watch before arguing with them. "The creators were dicks once, that means that they were dicks all of the time!".
Many people have posted in this thread and have given opinions about the show without watching a 10 hour review. Those people were actively involved in the discussion at hand and posted their thoughts on the show itself, because it's not just about the review, it's also about the show it's reviewing.
The difference is, as far as I know, they didn't ignore evidence when it countered a claim they baselessly made
I said that they were dicks once and that didn't make them dicks for all time. That's hardly ignoring evidence. That's pointing out that I can't extrapolate a thesis behind the mentality of the show itself from a single incident.
There are countless instances of them deliberately lying over and over, many in that same video! But since you refuse to watch it...
And as a person who actively consumed Lost and all of it's behind the scenes content including a lot of rumors and fan theories (I was basically an addict, lmao), as well as a lot of stuff over the way the show has been talked about by it's creators and participants post-mortem, appealing to the ten hour video essay isn't as big of a point of concern as you think it is.