• The GiftBot 2.0 Launch Giveaway Extravaganza has come to a close with an astounding 8073 games given away to the community by 696 members, a huge success thanks to you! The gifting now continues with more official prizes in the new Gaming Giveaways |OT|. Leftover Steam codes are also being given away to the PC Gaming Era community.

Reparations for black folk, how should we do it

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
7,513
Two wrongs don't make a right.
You can present anything as a wrong though.
It's the only thing conservative thinking is good for even.
It's not even shameful to have people fighting for the right to own people so miss me with how some things are somehow wrong because it doesn't maintain ill gotten gains.
I don’t know what you mean by this, I’m talking specifically about black people who married into families that owned slaves, who have children that are black/mixed and are also direct descendants of slave owners.
I mean that you include them in the tax break brackets because mixed or black children will suffer discrimination in the same way slave descendants will.
 

MOTHGOD

Avenger
Dec 8, 2017
546
Buttfuck Nowhere
I don't think it will work at all unless given to not just one race. I think it should be things like tax breaks, free (in the most optimistic sense) or highly discounted education and transportation, idealistically free Healthcare for everyone but in this sense free or super discounted Healthcare. And it should apply for those that make under a certain amount of money per year and/or live in disenfranchised communities. Also make it easier for people to get loans for houses and to start businesses. Maybe even a small amount of money (like up to 10k) for things like a car or for house repairs or whatever is needed to move ahead.
 

datbapple

Member
Nov 19, 2017
336
Tax exempt status if you aren't going to give us land. Free/reduced tuition to level the education gap. Homeowner credits for up to two home purchases. Basically hits the problem of ownership being the biggest barrier to entry to the middle class and out of poverty and out of the rent/land baron cycle. I am sure there are other more clever ideas but I think these are the least likely to make everyone else bitch up a storm about reparations.
 

TheMango55

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,739
I mean that you include them in the tax break brackets because mixed or black children will suffer discrimination in the same way slave descendants will.
But they still materially benefit from the wealth accumulated by their white ancestors.

Isn’t that the whole point in wanting to tax slaveholding families specifically?

Overall it’s just a really terrible idea.
 

reKon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,384
Anything healthcare related would be a must, but ideally it would something that would allow black wealth to be supercharged and sustainable while taking into account all the major roadblocks we will be facing in the future (i.e. automation).
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,463
There’s a lot that should be policy normally related to social services, but otherwise I think direct monthly payment over a period of time for financial relief would be a good start.
 
Mar 16, 2019
109
I’m not sure what the best way would be.

I don’t really like tax exemption though, since that disproportionately benefits the wealthy, while doing relatively little for those who need help the most
 

Parch

Member
Nov 6, 2017
3,076
Tax breaks for low income families, social programs like free healthcare, scholarships.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
7,513
But they still materially benefit from the wealth accumulated by their white ancestors.

Isn’t that the whole point in wanting to tax slaveholding families specifically?

Overall it’s just a really terrible idea.
Ideally the tax on succession takes care of that but for some reason the US really loves inequality so...
 

Heshinsi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,050
They were giving out land at one point to white settlers right, with many of these lands still held by the descendants of these settlers, and we all know how valuable land possession is to wealth staying within families. So I think people whose ancestors were in the United States when these land transfers were going on, and were legally barred from participating, they should be compensated for that on top of some of the suggestions in this thread.
 

reKon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,384
Tax breaks for low income families, social programs like free healthcare, scholarships.
Tax breaks to low income families don't mean too me because often they already don't have to pay much of anything in tax after applying standard deduction, earned income child credit, etc. There has to be something more to be able to generate wealth and that seems to be targeted and education all across the board. Targeting healthcare is also must because many low income families are can be medical emergency away or two from being in financial ruin.
 

samoyed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,974


Give black Americans the red bits. Set up a new interim government with Coates as Prime Minister. Law of Return for all diaspora blacks.
 

Trup1aya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,729
At this point, I don't think I can get behind the idea of direct reparations... In the long run those checks will do nothing of the system is still designed such that we are most likely to fail.

I want laws that end disenfranchisement. I want an end to inequity in schooling, housing, law enforcement, Healthcare, hiring practices and lending practices. I want college/trade school to be free.

I think investing this way would be more beneficial in the long run. As long as the system itself is racist, the the benefit of reparations will be short lived.
 

Valiant

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,345
By the way, anytime I think about us not paying taxes as part of reparations I think of Patrice O'Neal's bit, just truth:

The problem there is Patrice starts off by calling federal taxes slavery... which you know is right next door to comparing federal taxes to theft.

Anyway. I would be down for no federal taxes (still gotta pay into medicare and social security tho) for a period of time. Free college/trade school education and probably some black community infrastructure project.
 

TSM

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,796
I think the biggest issue with adequate reparations is that the longer it takes to do it the more unworkable the logistics of it get. At this point it would be an astronomical sum of money for even $100,000 each person which will likely quickly be separated from the receivers in our current capitalist environment. And that's even if an agreement could be reached to establish eligibility.
 

Salamando

Member
Oct 25, 2017
255
I don't think it will work at all unless given to not just one race. I think it should be things like tax breaks, free (in the most optimistic sense) or highly discounted education and transportation, idealistically free Healthcare for everyone but in this sense free or super discounted Healthcare. And it should apply for those that make under a certain amount of money per year and/or live in disenfranchised communities. Also make it easier for people to get loans for houses and to start businesses. Maybe even a small amount of money (like up to 10k) for things like a car or for house repairs or whatever is needed to move ahead.
That would not be reparations then. That would be a social safety net, which I'd still be all for. Reparations in need to be compensation towards specifically black people for the wrongdoings of the United States as a whole.
 

Parthenios

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
3,865
There's a ton to untangle in reparations (outside of "should we or shouldn't we") that makes it interesting from a policy perspective.

First: who is eligible?

Descendants of slaves? But then you'd need a burden of proof that could prove too costly or expensive for many descendants to sufficiently qualify for.

Black Americans? Well, does this include recent immigrants from Africa, like Somali refugees? If not, we'd be back to the burden of proof problem. But if we say "all black Americans" well then how do we define "black?" Currently, the US Census lets people self-identify their race. That obviously wouldn't be a sufficient threshold for determining reparations eligibility. But then we have to let the government define "blackness" and then also set heritage percents (all black ancestry? Half? Quarter? "One drop" rules?).
 

Soda

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,601
Dunedin, New Zealand
As I read this thread, I'm really digging the idea of not giving outright cash, but providing benefits, such as reduced taxes. Here are a few ideas I really like:

1) Create a new classification of IRA. Name it whatever (Reparations IRA?) open only to black Americans. Anything put into it is tax exempt and anything withdrawn is tax exempt. Cap at $25,000/year. Basically, combine the taxation benefits of a Roth and Traditional IRA into a single IRA, and make the cap about 5x the current $5,500 limit. This will provide a reliable means for black Americans to save for retirement, assuming they have money to save (more on that soon). The goal here is to provide long-term retirement opportunities.

2) Open up a huge number of grants for public institutions AND certified technical/trade schools (e.g. electricians). Make the applications simple (one page) simply to collect information about the applicant, not to select who is worthy. The ultimate goal is to open up education opportunities to provide long-term educational benefits.

3) No federal taxes on black Americans for X amount of time (50 years?), including no federal income tax or social security/Medicare. This should provide a significant boost in income and allow for more individuals to take advantage of the school grants and the retirement account.

4) Healthcare should be single-payer anyway which will be such an improvement that I think I'm fine with that being the solution for all Americans.

5) Invest in black communities on a state and federal level. The demographics are already well known in major cities including how those cities are segregated, so start there. Improve infrastructure, move some government facilities closer to those areas to increase job opportunities, etc.

The trick, as always, is figuring out where the money comes from - I can think of some places we can move money from, but I'm well aware that it'd be s fight tooth and nails to make something happen given our extremely partisan government.
 

Funyarinpa

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,690
Not black nor American, so all I really have to offer is that maybe it'd be good to have a task force of several hundred sociologists, economists etc. of color that actually researched into the how of it.
 

Antrax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,491
A few good options. I'd personally like to see US treasury bonds given out (no different than any other; there shouldn't be any way to distinguish reparation spending from any other form of income or currency so that once it's out there, it's not gonna be taken away).

And also, yes we should fix the system of racial inequality that exists today, but reparations are about righting a wrong already committed. It's like a punitive award in a civil trial. The US should try to realize full equality for all its citizens (and honestly, all people regardless of citizenship), but it should also still pay damages to the people it's wronged along the way.
 

Gobias-Ind

Banned
Nov 22, 2017
2,811
Our GDP is estimated at around $21 trillion. Black Americans make up 13% of our population. 13% of GDP gives us $2.7 trillion which is a number to go from. Hard to justify anything much less than that from a moral perspective, imo. It's at least where the negotiation should unapologetically start. I imagine a more thorough methodology than "napkin math" could justify much larger numbers, though.

Education and healthcare should be universal. These are givens in most developed nations and if our democracy was more functional, they'd already be a given here as well. That should obviously happen but under no circumstances should anyone recognize it as "reparations."

I've been thinking that a large portion of this initiative could ride alongside the GND (with awareness of how exclusionary the original "New Deal" branding was, of course). That vast mobilization will require heavy subsidies to build industries to scales they don't exist at yet. I think these subsidies should be heavily focused toward placing the hearts of these industries in communities of color and that includes conditions meant to ensure the wealth generated by these industrial centers stays in these communities from top to bottom. No "General Electric gets $200 million grant for solar panel facility in Flint, Michigan" bullshit. My ideal would be co-operative firms created in and of the community from the start, with an agreement that they receive continued subsidies for whatever number of years to ensure they can operate at low margins.

Also, create a fund for black home ownership that is independently managed either by the CBC, or by individuals appointed by the CBC. I know this next point will be shitted on by liberals with process fetishes, but I'd also like to see this coupled with a mechanism to oversee and potentially seize repossessed homes if they run foul of predefined rules or, like, just if someone needs a house and there's an empty one literally right there. This shouldn't be scary to any person who doesn't also happen to be a bank, imo.
 
Nov 16, 2017
428
Tokyo
Adopt an improved version of South Africa's Broad Based Black Economic Empowerment (BBB-EEE also known as BEE). Put a sunset clause at a certain date, say 2050. BEE seeks to attain partial/total black owner ship of major businesses and mantain employment quotas at a level proportional to the demographics of the population; to give black people access to ownership and high level work in the companies that were built on their back.

The black community in America lacks generational wealth, and the owning of assets is the only way to solve this, not a once off cheque.
 

Parch

Member
Nov 6, 2017
3,076
Adopt an improved version of South Africa's Broad Based Black Economic Empowerment (BBB-EEE also known as BEE).
I was wondering what other countries have as reparation programs. Canada have tax breaks, specialized social programs, subsidized housing among other things for First Nations people.
There are probably other countries as well with some sort of historical or current reparations that would be reasonable considerations for what could happen in the US.
 

Don Fluffles

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,172
The execution of all killer cops. If they're deceased, their families pay the debt to the victim's families.
 

Master Of Illusion

Alt Account
Banned
Mar 18, 2019
856
Sorry, I'm a little slow today. If universal healthcare and free education (again, by taxes) become a thing then black people not paying taxes would be great for reparations, I agree.
I'll agree on outlawing private prisons and better low income housing, but having the rest of our taxes go up exponentially to fund something like this is batshit absurd and I want no part in it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,106
There's a ton to untangle in reparations (outside of "should we or shouldn't we") that makes it interesting from a policy perspective.

First: who is eligible?

Descendants of slaves? But then you'd need a burden of proof that could prove too costly or expensive for many descendants to sufficiently qualify for.

Black Americans? Well, does this include recent immigrants from Africa, like Somali refugees? If not, we'd be back to the burden of proof problem. But if we say "all black Americans" well then how do we define "black?" Currently, the US Census lets people self-identify their race. That obviously wouldn't be a sufficient threshold for determining reparations eligibility. But then we have to let the government define "blackness" and then also set heritage percents (all black ancestry? Half? Quarter? "One drop" rules?).
Why would a recent immigrant be entitled to slavery reparations come on now dude.

People would have to trace their lineage back to a certain point. Not even going back is that hard. My great grandfather was borin in 1906 and his grandparents were slaves. We have documents of his birth and their history

Also trust, ancestry.com or whoever would be salivating at the chance to sell people find your heritage services and they’d make a killing

There’s going to be people who seemingly appear out of nowhere and have no way of tracing their history and that’s unfortunate
 

samoyed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,974
Why would a recent immigrant be entitled to slavery reparations come on now dude.
This is not really my stance but... the slave trade devastated native African communities. It's not just the slaves who were hurt by the slave trade, it's every country from which slaves were poached and sold. The entire global north owes the entire global south an uncountable material debt.

I do believe we should have cross-country reparations sooner or later but this is a much bigger and more complex problem than reparations for slavery.
 

Aztechnology

Community Resettler
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
7,578
For all newborns, something along the lines of an UTMA from the state to the child redeemable at 18. Start with a few thousand (10k?) and let it earn interest and grow. Give young black youth an opportunity to start their lives with some breathing room.
At 6% that can grow to 28k. At 8% it can grow to 40k.
This is a good one. I think this is a practical and implementable one. Obviously other investments in community/education too. But this is a pretty grounded idea.
 

HomokHarcos

Member
Jul 11, 2018
1,599
Canada


Give black Americans the red bits. Set up a new interim government with Coates as Prime Minister. Law of Return for all diaspora blacks.
So you want ethnically cleansing? Seeing India-Pakistan and Israel-Palestine being split into different states makes me think there will be nothing but trouble between a White American state and a Black American one.
 
Dec 31, 2018
1,285
I’d say:

- Free healthcare
- Free tuition
- Investment in Black entrepreneurs
I think education and health options could go a long way. Backing minority entrepreneurs with innovative ideas also. I also agree with the posters who have mentioned rebuilding neighborhoods and elevating cities like Detroit and others would go a long way
 

Dyle

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
8,664
Wisconsin
Start with the 10-20-30 plan that's been presented in the Senate before and then move on to more specifically targeted measures like increasing federal college financial aid for underrepresented populations, increasing federal housing aid money, top to bottom justice system reform, health care reform with a focus on preventing patient mistreatment on the basis of race, increased local, state, and federal funding and opportunities for entrepreneurs in failing areas, and sensible tax breaks for working families etc.

At this point, we're more than 150 years away from slavery and in that long delay, it is no longer feasible to solve the problems of slavery on a personal, individual basis. What remains from that era, and from the decades of abuse and persecution since, is effectively a policy problem and a failure of our systems of government at the most basic level. In order to solve that, we need a policy based solution that not only addresses problems that exist today but puts into place standards that will prevent these problems from resurfacing in the future.

I also think it's important that reparations isn't focused just on black people, the same opportunities have to be given to the Native American and Latino populations at the very least. All of the countless injustices this country has brought upon its people must be repaid and these policies are most likely to become reality and succeed if they address everyone who deserves economic and social justice. The only way any of this happens is if a broad coalition of people makes their needs and demands known and to do that we have to widen our focus. The American political conscience is on the whole too weak willed to make proper amends otherwise
 

Blue Skies

Member
Mar 27, 2019
2,959
If you think reparations will ever happen then you don’t understand the current American racial situation.

We have brown children in cages, and some think that it’s possible for black kids and adults to get cash checks?

Literally never going to happen.

If I were to do it tho, like as in some sort of magical law that would pass Congress, I would call it the Racial Equality Act, I would make it so that racial profiling and killing of unarmed folk would be a federal crime.
Also banks would be braking the law if they were found to have a racial bias.
Also, immediately expunge, forgive, and release ANYONE with drug offenses.


We are over a hundred years apart from slavery and the longer we wait the less that reparations are going to happen.

What if a white man who descends (and profits) from slave owners, married a black person who descends from slaves?
What do their kids get?
 

Wiped

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
2,096
The huge reparations bill levied on Germany by the rest of Europe for starting World War I was the single biggest contributory factor which helped fuel the rise of Hitler and nationalism in Germany which led to WW2 (Hitler marshalled and fed off that bitterness).

Are you trying to start a race war?
 

Seik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,777
Québec City
In the US, one very basic nice first baby step would be to at least to condemn white supremacy, criminalize it and take it out of the 'free speech' territory.

Imagine how basic and common sense this goal is, yet so far. This isn't even compensation or anything, this is like basic shit that should've been done since before most of us were born.