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Oct 25, 2017
4,127
London, UK
Those are the kind of prices that the enthusiast market would pay. The thing is that Nintendo will have to deliver a premium hardware experience to ask that kind of price and I think it's one of the missing components of the Switch ecosystem right now. If they deliver on it, it will be another move to expand the market of the Switch.
And if they did this do you think they will bother to go back and update all previous switch games for free?
Of course they won't. They charged £3 per game to 'uograde' from Wii to wiiu VC
All the old games will look the same and they will release 2 games that take advantage of better hardware then stop.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
IF there is a Pro module I very much doubt any third parties would make exclusive ports for it but situations like Hyrule Warriors Legends wouldn't surprise me:

The game kind of worked on 3DS but you needed the N3DS to get a good experience.
games on switch are more cpu and memory bound than gpu, which is why all the gpu talk is kinda boring. I'm hoping the Pro has 6 A76s, so even with a "compatibility mode" at 1GHz, games will still perform much better thanks to the better performance over the A57
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,127
London, UK
The New 3DS came out end of 2014/beginning of 2015. Around 4 years after launch and 2 years before the Switch.

End of this year for some kind of enhanced model would be right on the same schedule, even if it's not in "Pro" form.

What's the point of an enhanced version ?
The new 3ds had better 3d tracking but it didn't make games not optimised for it run better . So what's the point?
 

Hermii

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,685
Nintendo has literally been relying on old hardware years past it's relevency and it's worked pretty well for thrm with the Wii and 3DS.
Beyond minor bumps there will be no switch pro. There will be a switch successor in around 2/3 years
They gave never released any kind of pro model before - the new 3DS had hardware improvements but not graphics hardware.
Also it came out around 5 years after the 3DS which is when a switch successor is likely
It doesn't matter how much you want a better version of the switch - Nintendo will always skew towards quantity and more profit per device sold
They never had a hardware agnostic API/ dev environment before. When they went into a long term partnership with nvidia, developing a brand new tool chain, it's probable they were taking following Iwatas vision and going for a hardware agnostic approach. They knew they werent going to atick around with the x1 forever.

They used Vulcan as a base for their api for a reason.
 

Nostremitus

Member
Nov 15, 2017
7,777
Alabama
I knew someone would bring up Control. So you think because of PS4 Pro/1X, Remedy greenlit the game even tho it would be on base consoles too?

no. They planned to have it for the PS4 and Xbox one because they had to, those are the major consoles for what they were trying to make. Having Pro/1X did not make a difference in deciding to make it at all, same way having a Pro Switch won't convince devs who can't get their games to run decent on 2017 switch to make their game for the platform either.

they either will make it if the base platform can work it or they won't. There is no way Pro consoles convince devs to start making an entire game or port a game if the base model can't run it in an acceptable way. Obviously, Remedy thought it was acceptable and while it's bad, it's not like they wouldn't have released it without Pro consoles.

and after beating the game on my PS4 Pro, it still has plenty of performances issues all around
I was just answering your question. You claimed developers wouldn't bother with a game if it didn't run well on the base console.

Do you think control would be the game it is today if the base consoles were the only option? They'd have either reeled in the scope of the game to fit within base console performance metrics or it would have been PC only.
 
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ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
What's the point of an enhanced version ?
The new 3ds had better 3d tracking but it didn't make games not optimised for it run better . So what's the point?
this is one of the benefits with moving up the CPU ladder, as well as better memory bandwidth and more SMs. even at the same clock speeds, everything will inherently run better
 

Oregano

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,878
games on switch are more cpu and memory bound than gpu, which is why all the gpu talk is kinda boring. I'm hoping the Pro has 6 A76s, so even with a "compatibility mode" at 1GHz, games will still perform much better thanks to the better performance over the A57

Memory and CPU is exactly what Nintendo would change going by the DSi and N3DS.

In terms of GPU I'm sure Nintendo will just encourage developers to use the higher power profiles when undocked, now that the Mariko Switch SKUs are out there.
What's the point of an enhanced version ?
The new 3ds had better 3d tracking but it didn't make games not optimised for it run better . So what's the point?

That's a question for Nintendo. GBA is the only handheld that didn't get a spec boosted version(due to its shortened lifespan); GB had Gameboy Colour, DS had the DSi and 3DS had the N3DS.

It could even just be something OS related. Smash Bros 4 and MH4U both had to disable the 3DS' OS but could run normally on the N3DS.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
Memory and CPU is exactly what Nintendo would change going by the DSi and N3DS.
the DSi and n3DS had the same CPU but more of them at higher clocks. that's why there wasn't any benefit for games that didn't take advantage of new hardware. you can't get an A57 and an A76 to perform the same at the same clock speed. the A76 will always be more performant than the A57. and the ram in the n3DS didn't have more bandwidth, it just had more memory but at the same bandwidth. anything that was bandwidth-starved stayed that way
 

Mr.Gamerson

Member
Oct 27, 2017
906
Why do you think Serkan Toto said that there was no doubt in his mind that a switch pro was coming out this year even before the digi-times rumor came out? He then went on to highlight the rumor once it was reported and even pointed out these guys have a sketchy past. Seems weird to highlight a inconsistent source, unless you have your own sources backing up enough of what they are saying.




Nate seems pretty confident that a Pro is not coming this year, and other reliable sources haven't chimed in yet to agree or disagree. If the switch continues to sell well this year or better than expected, i could see Nintendo delaying the Pro even if it was planned for this year to Q1/Q2 2021 just because it makes more business sense. The next few months will be fun in this thread.
 

Oregano

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,878
the DSi and n3DS had the same CPU but more of them at higher clocks. that's why there wasn't any benefit for games that didn't take advantage of new hardware. you can't get an A57 and an A76 to perform the same at the same clock speed. the A76 will always be more performant than the A57. and the ram in the n3DS didn't have more bandwidth, it just had more memory but at the same bandwidth. anything that was bandwidth-starved stayed that way

True, was bandwidth ever actually an issue though with 3DS stuff?
 

hyouko

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,217
Nintendo has literally been relying on old hardware years past it's relevency and it's worked pretty well for thrm with the Wii and 3DS.
Beyond minor bumps there will be no switch pro. There will be a switch successor in around 2/3 years
They gave never released any kind of pro model before - the new 3DS had hardware improvements but not graphics hardware.
Also it came out around 5 years after the 3DS which is when a switch successor is likely
It doesn't matter how much you want a better version of the switch - Nintendo will always skew towards quantity and more profit per device sold
It's not totally correct to say the New 3DS had no graphics hardware improvements. The PICA200 chip itself was the same, but it has 10MB of VRAM rather than the 6MB in the original. Wikipedia also claims it was clocked higher (204mhz vs. 133mhz), but I don't know if that's accurate. The extra VRAM definitely did get used; I believe that MH4U had notably higher-res textures when played on the New 3DS variant.

The New 3DS also didn't launch 5 years later, it launched about 3.5 years later (Feb 2011 -> Oct 2014 in Japan).

I'd generally agree that it's wise not to expect much from a possible Switch mid-gen upgrade, though. Nintendo will probably mostly pick up upgrades that they get for "free" as we saw with the Mariko Switch variants.
 

jsnepo

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,648
This is silly. Leaving in the dock isn't wasting the screen. It has a screen and you have the option to never use it. It's built with that function in mind. You choose how you want it to play. Find a solid second hand switch if you want it cheap. Offer up has em for 150 bucks with games included.

If you're waiting for a tv only switch that's cheaper than the base model. You're gonna be waiting a while.

Why is it silly? I rather not have the option to make it cheaper since I know I will never use it as a handheld.
 
Nov 8, 2017
6,315
Stockholm, Sweden
Come on nintendo, give us a big o'l powerful box and leave the handheld stuff with the regular switch for those who want it.

I know nintendo isn't focused on cutting edge performance anymore, and their games look great due to strong art design and good understanding of their hardware, but their games could look so much better on powerful hardware, i have been playing breath of the wild in 4k 60fps on emulator and it looks fantastic but it is still obviously a last gen game, it would be amazing to see a nintendo game running on true next gen hardware.
 
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Naga

Alt account
Banned
Aug 29, 2019
7,850
Why do you think Serkan Toto said that there was no doubt in his mind that a switch pro was coming out this year even before the digi-times rumor came out? He then went on to highlight the rumor once it was reported and even pointed out these guys have a sketchy past. Seems weird to highlight a inconsistent source, unless you have your own sources backing up enough of what they are saying.




Nate seems pretty confident that a Pro is not coming this year, and other reliable sources haven't chimed in yet to agree or disagree. If the switch continues to sell well this year or better than expected, i could see Nintendo delaying the Pro even if it was planned for this year to Q1/Q2 2021 just because it makes more business sense. The next few months will be fun in this thread.
Serkan Toto was absolutely sure of it last year as well.
Wouldn't be the first time he's wrong on a prediction tbh.
 

Herb Alpert

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,033
Paris, France
Come on nintendo, give us a big o'l powerful box and leave the handheld stuff with the regular switch for those who want it.

Maybe you should give up your Dreams about a "big old powerful" box by Nintendo...
You Seriously expect they would try to go head on against Playstation and xbox ?
That's not their strategy at all, and it won't be in the future either...
 

AndrewGPK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,827
Nintendo has literally been relying on old hardware years past it's relevency and it's worked pretty well for thrm with the Wii and 3DS.
Beyond minor bumps there will be no switch pro. There will be a switch successor in around 2/3 years
They gave never released any kind of pro model before - the new 3DS had hardware improvements but not graphics hardware.
Also it came out around 5 years after the 3DS which is when a switch successor is likely
It doesn't matter how much you want a better version of the switch - Nintendo will always skew towards quantity and more profit per device sold


I tend to agree that I don't expect Nintendo to release a Pro model in the sense that it would have big improvements to performance and they are somewhat limited in design as they will have to make the old joycons compatible. However, we just saw new Switch hardware last year and Nintendo has a history of making revisions mid cycle on portables. Things like a bigger screen/no bevel, d-pad joycon, simplified dock, better battery and modest performance upgrades would very much fit in with what Nintendo has done typically.

They usually make money on hardware sales and it would be a good way to maintain excitement in the console and make it feel cutting edge even with the release of next gen from the competitors. If N wants to stay with the Switch concept next gen then they need to release Switch 2 closer to mid cycle - that is a long way off, so I expect something in between.
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
Because every time a person asks me about a Pro they ask if RE2R/RE3R/FF7R and such will come to the Switch Pro since they think a Pro will suddenly close the gap and get PS5 ports that the Switch OG cannot handle.

I've always been of the opinion that nobody would put exclusive games on a pro, but devs would have far more incentive to port games like RE2R/RE3R/FF7R to both the base Switch and the pro if a pro exists because they can market it using pro footage.
 

Kevinception

Alt Account
Banned
Jan 18, 2020
303
Yeah between this and what z0m3Ie has said it looks like it might be pushed to 2021. Unless things change, which of course happens all the time.

Well, this tweet is basically saying a "pro Switch" doesn't exist, because they are implying a revision is coming just not a "pro" kind of revision. So, it's not implying a "pro" is being pushed to early 2021, just that such a thing doesn't exist.

Yea I don't believe their speculation either :P
 
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UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
If its not a real hardware upgrade, I'd say probably we're looking at a model with a larger screen (reducing that bezel size) and a sturdier main body.

Think this year is going to be peak Switch sales though and you'll start to see decline in 2021 and 2022.
 

NateDrake

Member
Oct 24, 2017
7,500
Well, this tweet is basically saying a "pro Switch" doesn't exist, because they are implying a revision is coming just not a "pro" kind of revision. So, it's not implying a "pro" is being pushed to early 2020, just that such a thing doesn't exist.

Yea I don't believe their speculation either :P
I'm specifically talking about one in 2020. In other tweets not posted here, I've said 2021 is a better possibility and one I wouldn't dismiss.
 

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
Yea sorry, I see It was further discussed later in the thread, was about to edit my post...I see what you are saying now.
Yeah, and I'm saying there is a small chance it happens this year like seems to have been planned, but it looks like it was delayed, probably out of the year, though it seems to still be trying to come this year in Q4.
 
Oct 27, 2017
20,760
I was just answering your question. You claimed developers wouldn't bother with a game if it didn't run well on the base console.

Do you think control would be the game it is today if the base consoles were the only option? They'd have either reeled in the scope of the game to fit within base console performance metrics or it would have been PC only.
Yes, they would have reduced scope of it if base consoles were the only option but idk I think if a dev releases the game like that even with Pro consoles they'd still release it in the same sorry shape if Pro consoles didn't exist.

and sorry I was confusing my responses. You replied to a comment of mine where I was arguing against the existence of a Pro console encouraging a dev to make their game for a platform just because the Pro version will run better even if non-Pro version doesn't which was what the user I had quoted was saying I believe.

my main point is I don't think any devs will be swayed to suddenly support the Switch if they aren't already just because a slightly more powerful model exists
 

Kevinception

Alt Account
Banned
Jan 18, 2020
303
I find it weird people still asking for a powerful Nintendo home console-only machine (which is what a docked-only Switch would be) or asking for more power to compete with Xbox/Sony.

One...the whole reason Nintendo consolidated their hardware into a hybrid and combined their software development because they were done spending time and resources to make Nintendo games for their platforms that had very small userbases (basically their traditional home consoles)

They won't cater to that declining market any more. So there is no incentive for them to construct a very powerful docked-only version of Switch and spend time developing Nintendo games to take full advantage for that, when the market and demand for that is so minimal

Two...ports of modern/timely AAA multiplats to the Switch is irrelevant. (As is with most Nintendo systems). The Switch has been a huge success the past 3 years without any. It doesn't need need them during the next 3 years either.

What the Switch needs in terms of 3rd party are exactly what it's getting...indies, 3rd party exclusives, AA titles, and ports of much older AAA multiplats. The most "timely" port of a AAA multiplat was, what, Doom?

3rd party publishers of popular Xbox/ps AAA multiplats don't ignore Nintendo because they can't get their games to run on the hardware...they ignore them because they don't want to spend the time and resources to port their expensive game on a platform where there is very little demand for it by the userbase.

Having a Switch Pro or a Switch 2 with 4-6x the power isn't going to change this.

Anyone who cares about fidelity of AAA multiplat gaming already owns a PC or an Xbox or a playstation...so when these titles release, they will always choose those platforms. Therefore, demand for the Nintendo port is too small for most publishers to care spending time and effort on.

The only reason to get the Switch version of a AAA multiplat is for the portability option. That's it. Which is why porting much older AAA multiplats makes the most sense, because portability trumps graphical fidelity over time.

Will a million gamers choose to play GTA6 on a portable machine with reduced graphics and reduced LOD and reduced draw distances and low framerates instead of buying the PC/Xbox/ps version? Most likely, no. But would millions choose to play the 6 year old GTA5 on a Switch if released today? Possibly

So asking for a Switch that would attract timely AAA multiplat support of games that are popular on the pc/Xbox/ps is a doomed scenario even before you ask the question.
 
Oct 27, 2017
20,760
If its not a real hardware upgrade, I'd say probably we're looking at a model with a larger screen (reducing that bezel size) and a sturdier main body.

Think this year is going to be peak Switch sales though and you'll start to see decline in 2021 and 2022.
I wonder how wide the switch screen can get while still maintaining the same joy cons rails.

6.5, 7, 7.5 inches? If so, I could see that be the model, just an XL. And maybe an increase in battery life or a 1080p screen for docked performance on the go, hence "Pro" as it's the best settings available for switch games but now in portable mode. Bigger size, node shrink allows this to be possible at 5-6 hour battery life, etc. $299 or Ideally $250 March 2021 for 4th anniversary and hell, BOTW2 alongside it.

Lite model for $179/XL (Pro) model for $250 would do pretty good to curb the end of gen decline as Switch enters years 4-6 imo.
 

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,326
I wonder how wide the switch screen can get while still maintaining the same joy cons rails.

6.5, 7, 7.5 inches? If so, I could see that be the model, just an XL. And maybe an increase in battery life or a 1080p screen for docked performance on the go, hence "Pro" as it's the best settings available for switch games but now in portable mode. Bigger size, node shrink allows this to be possible at 5-6 hour battery life, etc. $299 or Ideally $250 March 2021 for 4th anniversary and hell, BOTW2 alongside it.

Lite model for $179/XL (Pro) model for $250 would do pretty good to curb the end of gen decline as Switch enters years 4-6 imo.
I think around 7 inches, perfect screen size for the size system it is
 
Oct 27, 2017
20,760
I think around 7 inches, perfect screen size for the size system it is

yeah I'm fine with 7. I'd love to see a 6.5 or 7 inch foldable Switch, like Galaxy Fold Z, TCL or Razr phones, that way it can be pocketable when folded.
I want a switch mini.
If I never get my dream foldable Switch, I'd take one with a sub 5 inch screen. Even 4.5. Don't mind it on my new 3DS and I wish the Lite had been, well lighter and more portable.
 
Oct 27, 2017
20,760
Why do you think Serkan Toto said that there was no doubt in his mind that a switch pro was coming out this year even before the digi-times rumor came out? He then went on to highlight the rumor once it was reported and even pointed out these guys have a sketchy past. Seems weird to highlight a inconsistent source, unless you have your own sources backing up enough of what they are saying.




Nate seems pretty confident that a Pro is not coming this year, and other reliable sources haven't chimed in yet to agree or disagree. If the switch continues to sell well this year or better than expected, i could see Nintendo delaying the Pro even if it was planned for this year to Q1/Q2 2021 just because it makes more business sense. The next few months will be fun in this thread.
Honestly I could see all of these people getting good information but with different POV.

a Switch XL with a bigger 1080p screen and docked performance in portable mode may seem like a Pro to one, but another person may have only been told it had a bigger screen and doesn't know about docked in portable mode, or something like that. Idk just guessing
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
Honestly I could see all of these people getting good information but with different POV.

a Switch XL with a bigger 1080p screen and docked performance in portable mode may seem like a Pro to one, but another person may have only been told it had a bigger screen and doesn't know about docked in portable mode, or something like that. Idk just guessing
a 1080p screen is only gonna make a lot of games look way worse due to the upscaling
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
I wonder how wide the switch screen can get while still maintaining the same joy cons rails.

6.5, 7, 7.5 inches? If so, I could see that be the model, just an XL. And maybe an increase in battery life or a 1080p screen for docked performance on the go, hence "Pro" as it's the best settings available for switch games but now in portable mode. Bigger size, node shrink allows this to be possible at 5-6 hour battery life, etc. $299 or Ideally $250 March 2021 for 4th anniversary and hell, BOTW2 alongside it.

Lite model for $179/XL (Pro) model for $250 would do pretty good to curb the end of gen decline as Switch enters years 4-6 imo.

They could enlarge the screen but making it 1080p would be pointless as almost no Switch games run 1080p undocked. Don't think such a revision would do that much for sales honestly.
 
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Misterhbk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,313
Why is it silly? I rather not have the option to make it cheaper since I know I will never use it as a handheld.
Waiting for a product that has 0 evidence pointing towards its existence, for the sake of 50 saved dollars at best even if it did exist? When you can save much more than that On the used market, if price is that much of a factor for you, and still get the exact desired experience you're looking for and not wait at all. Just seems silly.
 
Oct 27, 2017
20,760
Folding switch would be good for switch 2
a 1080p screen is only gonna make a lot of games look way worse due to the upscaling
They could enlarge the screen but making it 1080p would be pointless as almost no Switch games run 1080p undocked.

true, I guess 1080p wouldn't work. Could see it be XL size at 6.5 + but 720p then.

And I really want switch 2 to be foldable.

Galaxy S20 should be coming with 16GB RAM next month, so I'd hope by holiday 2022 or spring 2023 when Switch 2 would release that a foldable could pack 16GB, 8 ARM cores @2Ghz, and 1.–2TFs in a $300 body.

considering the new Galaxy Foldable phone is going to be $800ish, and S20 will be $900ish with 16GBs, I think costs should come enough in 3 years for each to be affordable for Nintendo. Of course whether they'd actually do it is another thing lol.
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
true, I guess 1080p wouldn't work. Could see it be XL size at 6.5 + but 720p then.

And I really want switch 2 to be foldable.

Galaxy S20 should be coming with 16GB RAM next month, so I'd hope by holiday 2022 or spring 2023 when Switch 2 would release that a foldable could pack 16GB, 8 ARM cores @2Ghz, and 1.–2TFs in a $300 body.

Yeah I don't see foldable happening ever. That's the 90s-2000s design philosophy.
 
Oct 27, 2017
20,760
Yeah I don't see foldable happening ever. That's the 90s-2000s design philosophy.
Well idk if Nintendo will do it but phone companies are trying real hard. Samsung is about to release a smaller foldable with a glass layer above screen and prices are coming down to $800 or less, literally half of what they were selling for 1 year ago

TCL's new foldable, which I believe doesn't put a crease in screen since screen doesn't fold entirely, looks modern and not 90s.

reduce screen from 7.2 to 6.2/6.5, slap some joy con rails on the side, and I'd love it. Joy cons would need to have circle pads or sticks that didn't protrude too much

tcl-foldable-phone-prototype-30-1.jpg

tcl-foldable-phone-prototype-20-1.jpg
 
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m.i.s.

Member
Oct 30, 2017
243
England, UK
a 1080p screen is only gonna make a lot of games look way worse due to the upscaling
They could enlarge the screen but making it 1080p would be pointless as almost no Switch games run 1080p undocked. Don't think such a revision would do that much for sales honestly.

Hardware just needs better quality IPS screens imo rather than increased resolution.

Just by way of example, this IPS panel below retrofitted to GBA SP really is something special -- and just 240x160 res.

 

T002 Tyrant

Member
Nov 8, 2018
8,965
720p is fine for handheld. Especially when you're limited to 720p you can get better visual effects at 720p. At 1080p the GPU is going to have to work harder to get the same visual effects. Keeping things at 720p seems more sensible.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
Hardware just needs better quality IPS screens imo rather than increased resolution.

Just by way of example, this IPS panel below retrofitted to GBA SP really is something special -- and just 240x160 res.


I think they should go OLED with HDR. I know OLED has problems, but if this device is meant to be a stop gap between the OG switch and the Switch 2, then they won't have to worry too much about long-term issues like burn-in and degradation
 

Devil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,662
I think they should go OLED with HDR. I know OLED has problems, but if this device is meant to be a stop gap between the OG switch and the Switch 2, then they won't have to worry too much about long-term issues like burn-in and degradation

OLED has been used in most smartphones and PS Vita for years now with no problems. It's not exactly the same as on TV as far as I understand but it hasn't been problematic for mobile devices in the past.

I don't think that Nintendo would use OLED though but we'll see.

Written from a phone with an OLED screen while sitting in front of an OLED TV.
 
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