The reputation of Into Darkness has significantly decreased over time and this is in no way an Era-only thing.
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REPORT: Star Trek 4 has been Canceled.
- Thread starter IDontBeatGames
- Start date
The general public perception of Into Darkness has definitely dipped as time has passed on. And it's hard to argue that it didn't impact Beyond. Look at how sharp the decline was in US domestic box office from Into Darkness to Beyond. Or if you want another smaller example, look at how the number of user ratings for Beyond on Rotten Tomatoes dropped like a rock compared to Into Darkness. Plus you can scour the internet for one year later type articles that talk about how the movie doesn't actually hold up.
Public perception of a movie can change over time, you know. If we only went off of kneejerk critical reception, Empire Strikes Back wouldn't be the best Star Wars movie.
The amount of time between each film and Star Wars coming back (even the announcement before Into Darkness) was what hurt the most IMO.
Funny we only had movies from the beginning to end of the Obama years.
...None of this proves that Into Darkness public reception dipped and resulted in Beyond being a flop because of it.
The Enterprise has given as good as it's gotten in the past. In the new movies, it just gets flat out demolished.
I mean if you're looking for an article that 100% points out the correlation you're never going to find it but there's plenty of supporting information available to show that there was a reason why Beyond's box office numbers fell across the board despite the positive word of mouth about the movie.
There's also a reason why Beyond's story avoids acknowledging anything from Into Darkness
Even JJ thinks he could of done better
https://www.buzzfeed.com/kateaurthur/jj-abrams-and-the-long-road-to-star-wars
So where's the information you say supports this claim? Because you still haven't provided a single piece of evidence.
Also, please provide evidence that Beyond was written that way. Thanks.
Thank you for admitting you didn't actually read one of my earlier posts
The director himself said he was "politely ignoring" Into Darkness.
Edit - here's the article i'm actually talking about. He tries to be polite about it by drawing a parallel to the "episodic nature" of Star Trek but he pretty much drives home the idea that Beyond was going to not talk about Into Darkness at all.
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I read it. It literally just said "less people saw it, thus less people rated it." How can you PROVE that those numbers were CAUSED by the "waning" Into Darkness public reception?
Because all you threw out were numbers that you, in no way, attempted to prove were caused by Into Darkness.
So again, I ask you, to provide all this evidence. And the evidence that Beyond was written to pretend Into Darkness never happened. Because you keep pulling shit out of your ass.
again, please actually read my posts to completion before you respond
I did. You can't keep saying this and purposely avoiding the argument because you can't connect the numbers with Into Darkness OR provide evidence that Beyond was written to throw Into Darkness into non-existence.
I am still waiting. If you're going to pull shit out of your ass, please do so with evidence. Otherwise, don't reply.
Literally from that article:
"No, but we don't discount it. We don't sit there and say it doesn't exist, it's part of this universe now. "
Did you even read it? They aren't ignoring anything or pretending it doesn't exist, they are doing their own take on it.
"We aren't going to talk about it in our movie" and "were going to do our own take on it" are basically super polite ways of saying they are setting aside the stuff Into Darkness laid out and are essentially pressing a reset button because they didn't care for what happened before. I don't understand how you can't see that and I also don't really understand why you are so defensive about Into Darkness
So you're making stuff up based on stuff they didn't say. You can't pretend they are throwing something into non-existence just because you think you can read someone's thoughts. That's not what they said. At all.
And I'm not defensive. I'm annoyed by your inability to actually provide a reasonable argument with facts rather than stuff from your ass.
I'm done here, you're being unnecessarily hostile and claiming I'm making stuff up despite me trying my best to make you see what I'm seeing here.
Sure, that's one way to get out of providing a reasonable argument.
A good example of this is Spock and Uhura's relationship, 2009 and Into Darkness spent a lot of time trying to make that happen, with less than stellar results. Beyond throws that sub plot away in the first 5 minutes, while also creating a small plot device used successfully later in the film. (That rare mineral necklace Spock gave to her)
and lol @
"pulling shit out of your ass"
"pull shit out of your ass"
"stuff from your ass"
"I'm not defensive"
Look at the bright side. Less star trek means we might get less star trek references from Mike in RLM
I'd probably throw most of Into Darkness's plot away too since the movie is a stupid 9/11 truther movie
Into Darkness didn't cause Beyond to bomb. The worst job of advertising I've ever seen in a major motion picture did. Someone in Paramount sabotaged that movie's release.
Let it stay on TV until new blood emerges that realizes Trek's potential as an incredible cinematic universe.
Let it stay on TV until new blood emerges that realizes Trek's potential as an incredible cinematic universe.
With regards to the discussion on Star Trek films needing big action and whatever, let's keep in mind that Interstellar made near 700m on the back of weird sci-fi, interesting visuals, and character drama. These movies don't need to be dumb as shit to make money, they just need to not be complete nerd fests with people standing around talking about dilithium crystals for an hour.
As far as why Beyond bombed, I think it has less to do with Into Darkness, and more to do with the movie looking really lame in commercials and previews. Into Darkness still holds a high score from cinema goers.
As far as why Beyond bombed, I think it has less to do with Into Darkness, and more to do with the movie looking really lame in commercials and previews. Into Darkness still holds a high score from cinema goers.
Damn, I was hoping for the series to continue but at least we got a good reboot trilogy out of it!
I'm not going to complain.
Star Trek is a TV show, I never liked ST movies.
Good. Beyond was okay but overall I was very disappointed in the reboot franchise. Just didn't feel like Trek at all. Into Darkness is a terrible movie.
Glad that Trek has a future again on TV, even though my feelings were mixed on Discovery.
Glad that Trek has a future again on TV, even though my feelings were mixed on Discovery.
Dude, please tone down the hostility. You are acting like an ass.
As to ST4 being cancelled, what a damn shame. I liked '09 ST, didn't care for ID, but I absolutely LOVED Beyond. I was hoping ST4 would be more like Beyond, oh well. :(
Why did the sequel to Into Darkness bomb if people liked it so much? The movie did not excite audiences for more.
How did Into Darkness bomb? It grossed more at the box office than the other 2 movies.
I didn't think Beyond was that great.
Into Darkness was more fun, but that wasn't that great either.
The first movie was good because it was almost like a prequel, showing you how they all came together. Felt more nostalgic.
Eh. I don't mind this "generation" of Star Trek movies coming to an end. The more I think about it, it just felt like your run-of-the-mill Popcorn Movie trilogy.
Into Darkness was more fun, but that wasn't that great either.
The first movie was good because it was almost like a prequel, showing you how they all came together. Felt more nostalgic.
Eh. I don't mind this "generation" of Star Trek movies coming to an end. The more I think about it, it just felt like your run-of-the-mill Popcorn Movie trilogy.
While it sucks that Star trek 4 won't happen, I vastly prefer TV series Star Trek over movie Star Trek so hopefully the revived TV interest in Trek means we get more of that.
Plus The Orville does a really good job of scratching that TNG itch.
Plus The Orville does a really good job of scratching that TNG itch.
loved the cast, just wish there was more star trek in it
deep space 9 should be next up on the list of reboots, just give me something with a Sisko
Although I wouldn't want his character to be dragged down by non-stop action and movie theater explosions, so cancel that.
deep space 9 should be next up on the list of reboots, just give me something with a Sisko
Although I wouldn't want his character to be dragged down by non-stop action and movie theater explosions, so cancel that.
That's the way I see it too. Despite the hate boner that a lot of this forum seems to have for Into Darkness, I've yet to see a scrap of evidence that the general audience disliked it to the extent that they avoided Beyond. What I did see, however, was a terrible marketing campaign for Beyond that excited no-one, and behind the scenes leaks that even had me expecting it to be a complete mess.
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While watching the last one, I felt sorry for every actor in the movie. It was so bad, I was cringing through half the movie. I knew the series was over as soon as the credits rolled. All these actors, and the IP itself, deserve so much better.
Jesus Christ that movie was bad.
Jesus Christ that movie was bad.
I sort of feel like DS9's magic is something that will never fully be recreated. Part of what made DS9 work for me was that it was very against the grain compared to what Trek was up until that series.
Marketing was a huge part of it. It had very bad marketing from the start, with that terrible Sabotage trailer than no one liked. Even Simon Pegg blames Beyond underperforming on the marketing.
I'm sure the gigantic Star Wars resurgence had something to do with it as well. Star Trek has a history of performing best when Star Wars is out of the picture , while it performs worse when Star Wars is around.
Agreed although I can't really explain why
I think it was just how DS9 was such a mix of cultures and wasn't purely Federation. Its a special series, that is for sure.
I think we have, what 5 Trek tv shows in the works?
Discovery
Picard series
Lower Decks animated series
Kid friendly animated series
Michelle Yeoh spin-off series