M.O.B.A. Network acquires ResetEra.com - one of the world's largest gaming forums
M.O.B.A. Network has today acquired ResetEra.com, one of the world's largest gaming forum and
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ResetEra Ownership Update
- Thread starter Cerium
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I miss my custom title. It disappeared after I requested a temp ban for a few months when my mental health slammed through the floor and I completely forgot to ask for it back, lol.
For newcomers and anyone actually taking part sincerely after reading the OP:
Can add and adjust things like linking the quoted hate speech examples from mmo-champions, but been up forever and have a long drive and day ahead with being out of town. Can try to repost every page if folks are happy with it, or people can quote it to post themselves if the thread runs away from my availability as I won't be much for the rest of the day. Probably a waste though with how some carry on.
I'm curious to see how it plays out in practice since I don't have a great understanding of the EU GDPR. Like, do new privacy agreements have to be made because of new management, or are those still binding to either end since it was an agreement under the wing of ResetEra and not Cerium? Would it fall under legitimate interest, so long as the data remains within the operation of ResetEra? Or has ResetEra not followed the EU GDPR at all so far in the first place, and what would it take for us to do so?
Sorry if those details were covered by you earlier. A lot of noise and pages where things can get missed even if posted multiple times (not talking about the fun derail, the 90 pages prior). If anything, you may have a better chance in the Constructive Community Discussion thread since this incorporates more than the purchase itself. Hecht and B-Dubs are in there pretty often and is slower to where they'll catch it easier. But again, idk how well equipped staff are currently to answer that. If they can though, be sure to quote the post over here too since there is a relation and this has more visibility.
- Cerium alone made the sale as sole owner of ResetEra. Some on staff were aware ahead, but otherwise had ZERO control or involvement in the sale, and nothing can change it.
- Staff are volunteers. They aren't paid. The majority who have spoken aren't looking to be paid, and disagreements there are between them and the new owners to figure out. There's no 'bottom line' to consider for them as they don't own this forum. They know what pay is. They know the difference between jobs and volunteering. They are capable of making their own choices. No, they don't want to be lectured on the concept of payment or that they don't know how to take care of themselves.
- The staff and other users aren't Cerium. If you're actually mad at the seller, don't bring others into it. None of us (as in staff and users alike) are your swappable punching bags.
- M.O.B.A. Network is claiming to let ResetEra operate independently as far as moderation and operation is concerned. Ads though are in their corner and stated interest, so those will likely become more prominent and intrusive.
- A number of [read: probably all] other forums under M.O.B.A. Network are hateful cesspools this community wishes to avoid. Hateful as in transphobic, racist, sexist...you get the gist. This is likely due to them having the similar autonomy that was promised to us, rather than M.O.B.A. Network mandating alt-right/GG/hate speech tolerance.
- ResetERA membership and moderation is independent of others on M.O.B.A. Network, as many of those likely are as well if they were brought in independently of each other. Users and policies of those other sites will not automatically be a part of this place.
- M.O.B.A. Network sites tend to have a banner at the bottom showcasing the various sites under that umbrella. This is the next likely change after ad considerations. This means those other sites are more visible to our community, and we're more visible to their communities if our name/link is added. Again, ResetEra membership is still separate, but this does mean more sign ups from these communities that don't hold the same values ours strives for. The result could be increased trolling at best.
- Everyone, EVERYONE, is in the same boat here. We're all waiting to see what happens to ads and how well the claim of independence holds. No one can claim with a straight face that most staff and users who are waiting, instead of chomping at the bit, are for any of the garbage present in M.O.B.A. Network's other sites.
- IF M.O.B.A. Networks decide to push for relaxed moderation or replace staff to achieve the same effect in order to increase traffic (another stated interest) down that avenue, staff will inform us so we can figure out the next step. If all are somehow unable to (ex. all are banned), the change should be apparent enough that we will know to figure out the next step.
- That next step is likely to be labor intensive and costly if it's moving the entire community. I'm not aware of the means available by our fellow community members who splintered off, but there's likely a traffic and size difference that makes it difficult to do without a Cerium or other affluent individual(s). Or without a good number of people able to provide those same resources collectively in a timely and trusting manner. Either way, that's going to take a lot of time to where if the interest and will is there it may be discord organizing and such as last time.
Can add and adjust things like linking the quoted hate speech examples from mmo-champions, but been up forever and have a long drive and day ahead with being out of town. Can try to repost every page if folks are happy with it, or people can quote it to post themselves if the thread runs away from my availability as I won't be much for the rest of the day. Probably a waste though with how some carry on.
I'm not sure if staff would currently know.
I'm curious to see how it plays out in practice since I don't have a great understanding of the EU GDPR. Like, do new privacy agreements have to be made because of new management, or are those still binding to either end since it was an agreement under the wing of ResetEra and not Cerium? Would it fall under legitimate interest, so long as the data remains within the operation of ResetEra? Or has ResetEra not followed the EU GDPR at all so far in the first place, and what would it take for us to do so?
Sorry if those details were covered by you earlier. A lot of noise and pages where things can get missed even if posted multiple times (not talking about the fun derail, the 90 pages prior). If anything, you may have a better chance in the Constructive Community Discussion thread since this incorporates more than the purchase itself. Hecht and B-Dubs are in there pretty often and is slower to where they'll catch it easier. But again, idk how well equipped staff are currently to answer that. If they can though, be sure to quote the post over here too since there is a relation and this has more visibility.
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A recap to the best of my ability for those just joining or wanting to discuss certain "important" bits:
1) Cerium sells site to MOBA network for 4.5 million and the site made 700k this year up till August. Valuation and such shows that the site could've sold for more so Cerium wanted to sell fast or he saw declining or stagnating growth opputunity. Either way, website is owned by MOBA Network. Cerium (and the mods) have had assurances that MOBA Network will be hands off regarding this place and moderation with no current plans to change anything.
2) MOBA Network have a bunch of sites and forums around MMO and MOBA games and the moderation on those forums seems shit. Like, ranging from what you expect from capital G Gamer forums to worse (like one of their OTs banning discussion about inclusion and race etc on the same level of posts of graphic gore). So while the forums seem like shit holes, MOBA Network may just be hands off with them too, like they may just not care and want the forums to generate views and ad revenue while they just ignore the forums. Mods have said they would walk if MOBA Network interferes negatively.
MOBA Network sites also have a lot of ads and link to each other in the footers. Problems for some but Era also has a lot of ads (if you're not logged in) and I bet very few will actually see the footer stuff or bother to explore it (though I agree, it is worrying to be associated with those shit hole forums but if everything stays as it is, ideally it's like how there are good and bad Discords and sub-reddits. They don't cross police.)
3) A LOT of people angry that Cerium got paid because they thought this was a cooperative and don't like the idea of a website making someone money directly as they felt lied as they weren't told each time Cerium bought out a staff members shares (we don't know who had shares. Not the Mods, probably the technical staff).
4) A LOT of people got mad because Cerium should've paid the mods as he's making bank.
5) Mods come in and say "actually we're ok, we knew about this, Cerium is a decent guy, we're ok not getting paid as we do this for you, the users, not as a job, not to make money". This annoyed some user's because how dare the mods not want to get paid! Lots of user's being jerks towards moderation staff for this and showing a lack of basic respect when asked directly. Obviously the mods HAVE made mistakes before (and in the recent past) but they also get near constant shit on the best of days. Either way, a LOT of back and forth against the mods for what they've done.
6) Lots of back and forth regarding the communities that have left because they felt they were over modded or under modded, some for (in my opinion) fairly petty reasons or stemming from a misunderstanding from the mod side that then exploded when things were said in a private discord to vent while some were more valid such as the minority communities feeling they weren't being heard (and before someone twists my words again and doesn't read my posts like they did earlier I'm saying that the minority communities that felt unheard are valid, their feelings are valid and we all , not just the mods, need to be better there. I'm saying console specific communities leaving feels a bit petty to me.)
7) Lots of back and forths with user's wanting to leave, wanting account deletions etc.
8) I wasn't hear for this and skimmed over it but a user made a post about this thread in Etc which was quickly locked and they were juniored because of it then started erasing their previously made OPs saying the same stuff as what was in the thread they made and they were banned and the OPs restored. This sparked debate on right to be forgotten and if posts (specifically OPs of OTs or community threads) are personal or owned by the forum as they contribute value to the community and site.
I don't know where I stand on this as I agree we should be able to delete our accounts and posts but also feel that user's should work with Mods and communities if they want their OT OP removed as those usually hold value to the discussion in that thread (whether it's a nice game OP with details about the game or a community OT with links and resources relevant to discussion). Feels like a shame to lose that stuff when a user goes especially when their reason is citing community.
9) Because of that Mods faced another backlash here (Could've been avoided? I dunno, not a mod, don't know what happens there but they are clearly overworked right now because of this sale so likely more stressed or more prone to mistakes, lashing out or errors in judgement. Again, not privvy tot hat stuff so can only speculate based on how I'd feel in that position).
10) then at some point it became a tag free for all as a way to bring some levity to the ones still here in this thread when pretty much everything that can be said has been said. We haven't heard back from Cerium (we won't). We haven't heard from MOBA Network (which I feel if we want things to stay as they are, or an idealised version of how they are, we shouldn't hear from them). Mods have given their thoughts on the sale, Cerium, MOBA Network, being paid, our new "sister" sites (*shudder*) and a variety of other things related to and unrelated to the sale of the site.
If you want more detail ask and someone will hopefully fill you in or read the whole thing and see the bits where stuff is just repeated over and over for pages.
Again, best of my ability/care. Obviously missed thing and glossed over things and it contains my biases. I'm firmly on team "wait until MOBA Network fuck us up before screaming to leave". Also on team "the mods are people too so you can disagree with how they run things but treat them with some fucking respect, like you're treat any user here. They aren't fucking cops."
EDIT: And of course I'm beaten to the punch with a better post.
1) Cerium sells site to MOBA network for 4.5 million and the site made 700k this year up till August. Valuation and such shows that the site could've sold for more so Cerium wanted to sell fast or he saw declining or stagnating growth opputunity. Either way, website is owned by MOBA Network. Cerium (and the mods) have had assurances that MOBA Network will be hands off regarding this place and moderation with no current plans to change anything.
2) MOBA Network have a bunch of sites and forums around MMO and MOBA games and the moderation on those forums seems shit. Like, ranging from what you expect from capital G Gamer forums to worse (like one of their OTs banning discussion about inclusion and race etc on the same level of posts of graphic gore). So while the forums seem like shit holes, MOBA Network may just be hands off with them too, like they may just not care and want the forums to generate views and ad revenue while they just ignore the forums. Mods have said they would walk if MOBA Network interferes negatively.
MOBA Network sites also have a lot of ads and link to each other in the footers. Problems for some but Era also has a lot of ads (if you're not logged in) and I bet very few will actually see the footer stuff or bother to explore it (though I agree, it is worrying to be associated with those shit hole forums but if everything stays as it is, ideally it's like how there are good and bad Discords and sub-reddits. They don't cross police.)
3) A LOT of people angry that Cerium got paid because they thought this was a cooperative and don't like the idea of a website making someone money directly as they felt lied as they weren't told each time Cerium bought out a staff members shares (we don't know who had shares. Not the Mods, probably the technical staff).
4) A LOT of people got mad because Cerium should've paid the mods as he's making bank.
5) Mods come in and say "actually we're ok, we knew about this, Cerium is a decent guy, we're ok not getting paid as we do this for you, the users, not as a job, not to make money". This annoyed some user's because how dare the mods not want to get paid! Lots of user's being jerks towards moderation staff for this and showing a lack of basic respect when asked directly. Obviously the mods HAVE made mistakes before (and in the recent past) but they also get near constant shit on the best of days. Either way, a LOT of back and forth against the mods for what they've done.
6) Lots of back and forth regarding the communities that have left because they felt they were over modded or under modded, some for (in my opinion) fairly petty reasons or stemming from a misunderstanding from the mod side that then exploded when things were said in a private discord to vent while some were more valid such as the minority communities feeling they weren't being heard (and before someone twists my words again and doesn't read my posts like they did earlier I'm saying that the minority communities that felt unheard are valid, their feelings are valid and we all , not just the mods, need to be better there. I'm saying console specific communities leaving feels a bit petty to me.)
7) Lots of back and forths with user's wanting to leave, wanting account deletions etc.
8) I wasn't hear for this and skimmed over it but a user made a post about this thread in Etc which was quickly locked and they were juniored because of it then started erasing their previously made OPs saying the same stuff as what was in the thread they made and they were banned and the OPs restored. This sparked debate on right to be forgotten and if posts (specifically OPs of OTs or community threads) are personal or owned by the forum as they contribute value to the community and site.
I don't know where I stand on this as I agree we should be able to delete our accounts and posts but also feel that user's should work with Mods and communities if they want their OT OP removed as those usually hold value to the discussion in that thread (whether it's a nice game OP with details about the game or a community OT with links and resources relevant to discussion). Feels like a shame to lose that stuff when a user goes especially when their reason is citing community.
9) Because of that Mods faced another backlash here (Could've been avoided? I dunno, not a mod, don't know what happens there but they are clearly overworked right now because of this sale so likely more stressed or more prone to mistakes, lashing out or errors in judgement. Again, not privvy tot hat stuff so can only speculate based on how I'd feel in that position).
10) then at some point it became a tag free for all as a way to bring some levity to the ones still here in this thread when pretty much everything that can be said has been said. We haven't heard back from Cerium (we won't). We haven't heard from MOBA Network (which I feel if we want things to stay as they are, or an idealised version of how they are, we shouldn't hear from them). Mods have given their thoughts on the sale, Cerium, MOBA Network, being paid, our new "sister" sites (*shudder*) and a variety of other things related to and unrelated to the sale of the site.
If you want more detail ask and someone will hopefully fill you in or read the whole thing and see the bits where stuff is just repeated over and over for pages.
Again, best of my ability/care. Obviously missed thing and glossed over things and it contains my biases. I'm firmly on team "wait until MOBA Network fuck us up before screaming to leave". Also on team "the mods are people too so you can disagree with how they run things but treat them with some fucking respect, like you're treat any user here. They aren't fucking cops."
EDIT: And of course I'm beaten to the punch with a better post.
Ah, doing alright.
As for your questions, I not really 100% on all that many of them. But let's see...
1. MOBA's statement is threadmarked on the first page, I don't know the history of prior statements, if they made any; we're a lot bigger than most of their acquisitions.
2. They're apparently very hands off, which is part of the appeal of them as a seller, per Cerium's statement. Ad strategies are sort of an open question at this point, but they seem to use a very similar ad server and setup to the one we use (assuming you're logged out), which is somewhat encouraging.
3. We're feeling alright overall with the sale, but folks have posted their thoughts in here piecemeal, and I'll leave representing them to themselves. No direct contact yet with the swedes.
4. We're working on a few ideas for expanding the team. Always looking for good mods. We don't have an applications process because honestly sorting through them and trying to figure out who's sincere and who's applying because they're under the profoundly deluded belief that it'd make for a nice power trip (it does NOT, believe you me) is too much of headache. I'll leave off going into our longer-term plans until we've hammered out the details.
5. Cerium goes over his impression of the owners in the OP. If you're looking to address specific concerns, this is the thread for it, but as I've said, we don't have a ton of concrete answers as yet.
6. I would actually reference some of Kyuuji 's posts in here on #6, they line up well with my own personal beliefs - that this is a place worth keeping going, and coming here does not really analogize well to buying a product from a bigot. But this is ultimately a personal decision; I can't tell you or anybody else how to feel about it.
7. Sure, I can threadmark, uh, myself.
8. Not sure how things are getting divvied up on the tech/administration front yet.
9. Yes, you can still report problematic or malicious ads. Like I said, they seem to use a similar ad setup to us, so it shouldn't be too much of an issue. Only so much can be done there, though; just like now, ad servers have their own processes and people get around them on the regular.
Not remotely. You must've missed the election night (week) superthreads.
I wanted to wait 30 minutes for a response of B-dubs on if it is guaranteed that nothing will change in the future. Nothing in my post includes wrong information. I am quite frankly baffled that that is given as the reason. I took Resetera's Privacy Policy and held that against the privacy policy of the company under which the majority of the community sites of M.O.B.A Network AB fall.
I'm just going to post it here, because again I did NOT post any wrong information. I just state the differences in privacy policies, with a big asterisk on the one of Magic Find which basically states another privacy policy supersedes the partnered sites policy. I put a lot of hours into this post so again here it is:
Opening statement
This post is purely for informational purposes. Considering the values this community has been built upon and how important your personal data is in those values, it seemed important to me to look into the company that has bought this forum. Do note that this post is NOT made to discuss any moderation decisions on other partner sites, and/or other topics not relating to your user data. Again this post is made to inform you what will happen under the new umbrella, and give you options to protect your data.
I kindly ask you all to not derail this thread with other topics. These topics can be discussed in Cerium's thread about the new ownership here.
1. Introduction
Ever since Cerium made his thread announcing the sale of Resetera LLC to M.O.B.A Network AB one of the more important questions that came up was how the new company will handle our user data. The current privacy policy under Era Network LLC, which operates Resetera.com, can be found here and will be used as a baseline to compare it to the policy's of the new owners. Under the new owners most of their community sites seem to fall under the umbrella of Magic Find Inc. Which is where you are linked to once you click on their individual privacy policy links in the footer of these sites.
2. The good news
Going over the privacy policy of Magic Find and you'll notice broadly the same policy applies as it is now under Era Network LLC. Though a big asterisk applies here which will be discussed in the next paragraph. For now this means the following:
- Any information you provide is collected (this includes but is not limited to; email address, personal identifying information, messages shared through use of this forum)
- Information that is automatically collected (this includes but is not limited to your IP address, pages you visit, browser type, software type, etc.)
- User generated content (any content you submit to this forum can be used, replicated, prepare derivative works, royalty free, and for commercial use)
- Company does not sell, lease, or otherwise transfer your information to third-parties for profit.*
These points are already disclosed under the old ownership and remain the same under the new ownership, no surprises here. The following points are not disclosed under Era Network LLC's privacy policy. These can be considered as additional and include:
- Geo-location
- Third party provided information (this is seemingly included because they have the option to like you Battle.net, Facebook, etc. accounts)
So for the most part there are no big surprises here. Most of it aligns with is already in place on Resetera, also including the use of Cookies. However there isn't an asterisk for nothing on the fourth point which will now be discussed.
3. The catch
Going over Magic Find's privacy policy one of the things that stands out is under point six "advertising". It states the following:
Now for the most part this goes over the way Cookies are implemented. The big thing here is that CafeMedia's privacy policy supersedes that of Magic Find. Now again, this mostly covers the way cookies are implemented. However there's a big catch here and that's the way they are partnered with certain other parties that do different stuff with you user data:
As you can see a lot of personal information is sold here for profit. Especially LiveRamp might concern some of you. Also the fact CafeMedia's privacy policy supersedes the privacy policy of the partnered site is questionable at best.
4. What options do you have to protect your data
Considering Resetera's application method, you are probably using a personal email address. This can be changed as has been stated by admins in the announcement thread:
Furthermore you still have an option to opt out of certain data collector through the use of Network Advertising Intiative's cookie (ironic I know).
You can also opt-out individually at the designated partners mentioned under paragraph 3. once the forum has been completed integrated under new ownership.
Users from the EEA have the right to ask for their data, delete their data, etc. under the GDPR.
5. Closing statement
All in all, we all have options to protect our data. Beginning with changing your email if you are not comfortable with sharing that. Through the use of a technicality M.O.B.A Network AB can state they will not sell your data but it is clear that through the use of a loophole this can happen.
Hopefully this helps you with some of the questions you may have had regarding your personal data. Anymore questions or discussions regarding our user data can be posted below. Again please do not derail this thread with other topics relating to the sale.
We've updated the Privacy Policy and ToS to change the company names and the legal jurisdictions (making them M.O.B.A. Network and Sweden respectively). Nothing else has been changed.
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