ResetEra Staff Meeting with the Black Community

Mist

Love & Respect
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
3,324
Hello everyone, and welcome. The purpose of the meeting today is for ResetEra staff and BCC members to meet and discuss concerns and issues that the BCC has so that staff can work to create a more welcoming and safe environment for you all.

A few things, though. We ask that no one uses this meeting to air grievances against specific individuals. The purpose of this meeting is to discuss general concerns, and come up with solutions with you all to address them. It's more than fine to bring up examples of the kind of posts you'd like to see moderated more harshly or that you see as a problem that isn't currently addressed, but we'd kindly ask that you do not attach names to these posts. More specific concerns about users can be brought directly to staff, or reported. This also has the benefit of not bringing unwanted off-site attention to said users, as well as yourselves.

Secondly, we ask that no one bring up generic staff actions they disagree with if they have nothing to do with the issue of handling black-specific issues (i.e. don't try to relitigate unrelated bans).

With that said, we're here to listen and have a constructive dialogue, and we're hopeful that this meeting will lead to positive change. Thank you to everyone attending today.
 

B-Dubs

Oh well, what the hell?
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
18,517
As of late, I feel like we haven't been doing enough to push back against racism on ResetEra. We've banned the more blatant examples, but there have been threads where I look back on and feel we could have done better. The reason I wanted to speak with all of you in this, or any, setting is so that we can better figure out how to improve and what exactly we should be looking for.

I recognize a lot of you from threads where we have discussed things in the past. I came away from those threads with a lot of respect and do want to know what you all think and what more we can do to be responsive and address your issues.

Appologies for the delay, I need to work out the posting permissions for those taking part and then we can get started.
 

B-Dubs

Oh well, what the hell?
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
18,517
Ok, permissions should be active now. Everyone on the list should be able to post.
 

Numb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,876
For black history month
Wonder if this has been in the works for a while or in the spirit
 
OP
OP

Mist

Love & Respect
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
3,324
That's a ton of language that is dismissive.
I'm sorry, which parts did you feel were dismissive? That definitely wasn't the intention. We just want to make sure this goes as smoothly as possible, and for the focus to be on the concerns of the black community at large rather than unrelated bans. Let me know if I can clarify further.

For black history month
Wonder if this has been in the works for a while or in the spirit
It's been planned since the meeting with TransEra.
 
Oct 25, 2017
826
All I will say is that there seems to be a lot of dogwhistling done on this board. And it feels futile at times reporting it because well, it's a dogwhistle and most people not privvy are going to realize it is one.
 

Urban Scholar

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,917
Miami, FL
Hi.

For one, I personally don't appreciate this thread in in hangouts. The last community related threa was on etc. I.e where everyone could see. I would appreciate the same respect and gesture because we're talking about racism and I need everyone to see that.

Plus our other Black members will see the thread in etc
 

B-Dubs

Oh well, what the hell?
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
18,517
Hi.

For one, I personally don't appreciate this thread in in hangouts. The last community related threa ldwas on etc. I.e where everyone could see. I would appreciate the same respect and gesture because we're talking about racism and I need everyone to see that.

Plus our other Black members will see the thread in etc
Sorry, it's supposed to be dittoed in that forum. We're fixing that as we speak.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,390
I guess it's hard to put into words, but at least for me I always feel this clash in what I believe should be allowed to be discussed and what should be moderated (as in resulting in warnings/bans) because it's unacceptable. And maybe it's because there aren't too many general purpose communities like this elsewhere that even discuss race with any level of civility (at least none that I'm a part of) that I feel the staff actually does a fairly good job at making that distinction. And it's usually in cases where it's clear the person said some egregiously racist shit. But then there are times when the staff lets certain posts go and I find myself wondering if it's better to give bans to those people or whether to let them get dogpiled on for what they said. Which is actually better for the health/sanity of the black community members? Which is better for getting those people to change their views and actually listen to what people are saying? I honestly have no idea. I might just sit back and see what people say in here, but those are my two cents
 

Faustek

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,718
Well for starters, this aint about getting back Member but about making sure y'all realize you're way off when you ignore the offsite drama shit. Member saying he is clearly affected by that shit and is afraid of the doxxing, you ban him, temp ban this time, and then the wastes walk in doxxing him.
It's like this damn bubble you assume we should be in ain't the same for your asses and ours.

Oh and can we come to an agreement that dumbasses in Europe saying shit ain't racism because Europe deserve a whipping straight away?

D i Z I feel ya.
 

Darryl M R

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,088
Thanks for the open conversation. Over the last year there has been missteps, but I want to voice my gratitude for when actions have been taken swiftly to strike down racist clowns.

I've reported posters who spewed diet or OG-cane sugar racism, but actions were slow. I think I understand the reporting process enough to know that decisions are made as a group, but I would like to know where the team lands on communication before bans are issued out. Often times, I felt that the staff was tied up with other issues while a thread dived into filth, but I can imagine that discussions are happening silently in the background. Would the staff be against providing report updates to users before a final decision is decided?


Also as it relates to doxxing, can the staff actively track which user "follow" another user and take that into consideration for future bans? If a poster follows 10 BCC regulars and only has 70 posts since 2017 and then posts some diet racist stuff, can we look holistically at that user to decide that their ban should be longer than a random first offender?

Lastly, is the site able to change memberID/userID of users to prevent off-site doxxing that tracks users' posts?
 

Urban Scholar

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,917
Miami, FL
I was thinking a lot about what I wanted to say. It all boils down to the fact I don't want to create threads or hell even bother posting outside the Black Community Thread.

Do you know why that is? I know better because all the things I want to discuss are race related and show how oppressive society is. Or you know Black & Brown folks doing dope shit.

The reason *I* don't is racism around here. See it maybe for those of whom aren't minorities. But I won't bother explaining because it's 2020 if you never Googled its whatever.

Racism isn't blatant words it's particular kind of responses, languages, and I'm just asking questions kinda bullshit. Or my favorite deflection: haha we don't have that here in Europe you silly Americans. *If you're European and reading this, you're racist like the whole globe is*

Anyway I'm sure you mods know what microagressions are. And we see experience them daily on here. Asking for less white protags in triple A games? We get it. Ask for more game devs whom aren't white about diversity in games? We get it.

So you maybe wondering what am I asking? Get stricter bans for racism. I also ask that the mods (the white ones especially) learn to recognize with someone is throwing thinly veiled racism like its confetti because jesus people throw that stuff around like snow here.
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,679
Hi.

For one, I personally don't appreciate this thread in in hangouts. The last community related thread was on etc. I.e where everyone could see. I would appreciate the same respect and gesture because we're talking about racism and I need everyone to see that.

Plus our other Black members will see the thread in etc
Agreed. I'd appreciate this being being stickied or something so it's everywhere and not just in the hangouts.
 
OP
OP

Mist

Love & Respect
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
3,324
All I will say is that there seems to be a lot of dogwhistling done on this board. And it feels futile at times reporting it because well, it's a dogwhistle and most people not privvy are going to realize it is one.
You're right that it's easy for people who don't have a lived experience and perspective on an issue often miss dogwhistles - it definitely happens to us sometimes. It's why we try our best to have a diverse staff roster. Whenever there's a report on a sensitive issue (or even a specialised issue that some won't understand), we tag the relevant staff, both in the report, and in our staff discord, but there's definitely room to improve. We've been looking for new black mods to help further flesh out our perspective for this reason. We have a number of black staff at the moment that lend their voice, but we definitely do need more, and are looking earnestly.

That isn't to say that you as the users, don't have a say either. You absolutely do. Your perspective matters too. I find that detailed reports that explain the issue, even briefly, can help us out a lot.

Is there anything else you think we could be doing that would help with this? This question is open to other members too.
 

Urban Scholar

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,917
Miami, FL
More importantly and yes I'm very serious. And yes I do want this answered out of respect.

Are mods aware of their own biases? *we all have them*

I'm not saying your racists or anything like that. Do you honestly know what you need to work on in regards to minorities when they need to speak up? Because that unpacking will help you get where we're coming from.

The thing about this place is its suffocating whiteness and how it will easily paint an angry minority as a bad guy.

Because I don't need someone white tone policing me when I'm popping off about society and whiteness pervasiveness.
 

Numb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,876
Thanks for the open conversation. Over the last year there has been missteps, but I want to voice my gratitude for when actions have been taken swiftly to strike down racist clowns.

I've reported posters who spewed diet or OG-cane sugar racism, but actions were slow. I think I understand the reporting process enough to know that decisions are made as a group, but I would like to know where the team lands on communication before bans are issued out. Often times, I felt that the staff was tied up with other issues while a thread dived into filth, but I can imagine that discussions are happening silently in the background. Would the staff be against providing report updates to users before a final decision is decided?


Also as it relates to doxxing, can the staff actively track which user "follow" another user and take that into consideration for future bans? If a poster follows 10 BCC regulars and only has 70 posts since 2017 and then posts some diet racist stuff, can we look holistically at that user to decide that their ban should be longer than a random first offender?

Lastly, is the site able to change memberID/userID of users to prevent off-site doxxing that tracks users' posts?
I was also wondering if mods even look into someone's posting history when deciding on a ban or depend on users who are familiar pointing them out or suing some warnings they used in the past
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,898
I'll just sit back and watch right now, others are already bringing up some big points. European shitheads with their, "ain't no racism here" polluting threads with no bans is just the tip of the iceberg.
 

Hypemaster

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
852
Space
Thanks for the open conversation. Over the last year there has been missteps, but I want to voice my gratitude for when actions have been taken swiftly to strike down racist clowns.

I've reported posters who spewed diet or OG-cane sugar racism, but actions were slow. I think I understand the reporting process enough to know that decisions are made as a group, but I would like to know where the team lands on communication before bans are issued out. Often times, I felt that the staff was tied up with other issues while a thread dived into filth, but I can imagine that discussions are happening silently in the background. Would the staff be against providing report updates to users before a final decision is decided?


Also as it relates to doxxing, can the staff actively track which user "follow" another user and take that into consideration for future bans? If a poster follows 10 BCC regulars and only has 70 posts since 2017 and then posts some diet racist stuff, can we look holistically at that user to decide that their ban should be longer than a random first offender?

Lastly, is the site able to change memberID/userID of users to prevent off-site doxxing that tracks users' posts?
It's pathetic it's gotten to the point where folks are getting doxxed but I'm not surprised.
 
Last edited:

B-Dubs

Oh well, what the hell?
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
18,517
Shy getting doxxed was the limit. He wasn't the first either. Doesn't matter how much we say it nothing will be done.
We can't stop people from other sites doxxing people simply because we have zero power over the sites that do things like that. What we can, do, and will always do, is permanently ban those who do attempt to doxx people on the site itself. If we can link any outside actors attempting to doxx members to people on the site, they will also get permanently banned as well. We have a zero tolerance policy for anyone attempting to doxx anyone.

For Shy, eventhough he is banned, if anyone attempts to doxx him they will be gone for good. I've made that clear in the past and I will make it clear here: anyone doing any doxxing will eat a permanent ban.

As for the affected users, we will help them out as best we can. Whether that's a new account or an account closure. That is up to them.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
7,286
I've reported posters who spewed diet or OG-cane sugar racism, but actions were slow. I think I understand the reporting process enough to know that decisions are made as a group, but I would like to know where the team lands on communication before bans are issued out. Often times, I felt that the staff was tied up with other issues while a thread dived into filth, but I can imagine that discussions are happening silently in the background. Would the staff be against providing report updates to users before a final decision is decided?
We now have more leeway to ban first and ask questions later. It's bit us in the ass a few times but I honestly prefer that because it allows us to better keep up with the speed of heated threads, versus pre Trans-Week where it was the opposite. Sometimes (assuming mitigating circumstances aren't a thing, like if mods are just away or there's other threads requiring attention), a hold-up can be because we're trying to establish clearly what we're banning for and who is crossing the line before we go in. Like, we can know when shit deserves a ban on sight immediately, but we can't have the banner be "Being a piece of shit." We gotta refer back to the books and precedent.

Also as it relates to doxxing, can the staff actively track which user "follow" another user and take that into consideration for future bans? If a poster follows 10 BCC regulars and only has 70 posts since 2017 and then posts some diet racist stuff, can we look holistically at that user to decide that their ban should be longer than a random first offender?
I went to your profile as a test, and I can't see anything regarding follows. That might be an administrative thing, tho.

I was also wondering if mods even look into someone's posting history when deciding on a ban or depend on users who are familiar pointing them out or suing some warnings they used in the past
We look at post history, infraction history, and notes, and try to escalate from there. So that's why infractions might seem a little weird. Like, someone who posts something racist the first time is going to get a smaller infraction than the asshole who can't keep from going on and on about Blue Lives Matter shit by default. And we do know when members have a history of aggravating behavior.
 

Darryl M R

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,088
Is the staffing willing to help certain users who feel or know that they are being track to deactivate their current account and create a new one with the same user name (and possibly the original joining date)? I'd imagine all future tracking of their posts would show us as "Deactivated-user-###"

I was also wondering if mods even look into someone's posting history when deciding on a ban or depend on users who are familiar pointing them out or suing some warnings they used in the past
Good point. I think it's clear for some that a user deserves a long ban based on their past posts that flew under the radar.

It's pathetic it's gotten to the point where folks are getting doxxed but I'm not surprised.
Hobby enthusiasts forum is big boy serious tier for some people.


We now have more leeway to ban first and ask questions later. It's bit us in the ass a few times but I honestly prefer that because it allows us to better keep up with the speed of heated threads, versus pre Trans-Week where it was the opposite. Sometimes (assuming mitigating circumstances aren't a thing, like if mods are just away or there's other threads requiring attention), a hold-up can be because we're trying to establish clearly what we're banning for and who is crossing the line before we go in. Like, we can know when shit deserves a ban on sight immediately, but we can't have the banner be "Being a piece of shit." We gotta refer back to the books and precedent.


I went to your profile as a test, and I can't see anything regarding follows. That might be an administrative thing, tho.
Thanks for sharing more about the process. Hmm I'm not sure if it is because of my security setting (but I'd assume you would be able to view it regardless, if you had access), so it may be something only admins can view. I think it would be smart to allow mods to view such a list. I'm not a high profile voice, but I've definitely seen lists of users. It could just be another tool for the mods to swiftly determine the seriousness of a report.
 
OP
OP

Mist

Love & Respect
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
3,324
Agreed. I'd appreciate this being being stickied or something so it's everywhere and not just in the hangouts.
I actually tried to sticky the thread and that made it disappear from the main section (I had to undo that action to get it to re-appear). This is a new software feature that we implemented for the meeting, and it's the first time it's being used on our forum.

We will however have a thread with a summary of the meeting, that links to this thread, once the meeting is over (it should be up within a few days after). That thread will be not have special permissions, so there won't be any issues there. We'll be sure to leave the thread stuck for a long time so it gets the necessary exposure it needs.
 

Numb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,876
We look at post history, infraction history, and notes, and try to escalate from there. So that's why infractions might seem a little weird. Like, someone who posts something racist the first time is going to get a smaller infraction than the asshole who can't keep from going on and on about Blue Lives Matter shit by default. And we do know when members have a history of aggravating behavior.
Good to know
--

Alot of users seems to downplay or pretend racism in europe isn't a thing like Faustek and BossAttack have brough up
And they seem to coast by easily to the point other users don't even care as much except black people and those in europe
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,286
Houston
We can't stop people from other sites doxxing people simply because we have zero power over the sites that do things like that. What we can, do, and will always do, is permanently ban those who do attempt to doxx people on the site itself. If we can link any outside actors attempting to doxx members to people on the site, they will also get permanently banned as well. We have a zero tolerance policy for anyone attempting to doxx anyone.

For Shy, eventhough he is banned, if anyone attempts to doxx him they will be gone for good. I've made that clear in the past and I will make it clear here: anyone doing any doxxing will eat a permanent ban.

As for the affected users, we will help them out as best we can. Whether that's a new account or an account closure. That is up to them.
the harassment of Shy and some others was like 900x then what most of us have to deal with. the reason Shy kept getting warning or ban and then eventually perm was b/c he couldn't deal with that shot all the time when nothing was really being done to stop people from coming at him all the time.

I forgot who but someone in our group has been changing passwords for a hot minute now from shit started here and GAF
 

Darryl M R

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,088
Actually the more I think about it, if a user wanted to deactivate their account to end any tracking and start a fresh account, how would they go about that?

essential question: what is being served at this meeting here?

are there rolls
C'mon bro. You know I love you, but you decided to post this?

We all know since the staff team is hosting us, we will eat gluten free bread with a smidgen of dairy-free butter.

I jest.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,286
Houston
also I don't know how my only ban happened the way it did but fuck that nonsense in that I had to get Nep to do anything to sorts almost fix it from it telling me I had a 3 day ban that was 7 days in length only to be fixed to 5 days. like I was some repeat offender who caught a break
 

Z-Beat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,209
Oh and can we come to an agreement that dumbasses in Europe saying shit ain't racism because Europe deserve a whipping straight away?
Definitely feels like people are using racism in the US to distract from racism elsewhere, like when you watch reality TV to distract you from family members doing stupid shit.
 

Numb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,876
Funny enough, if you have something to say even in support of moderation as a black person you eat those weeks.
Is it to seem like they ain't picking sides?
Seems like there are clear right and wrong sides in there tho
C'mon bro. You know I love you, but you decided to post this?

We all know since the staff team is hosting us, we will eat gluten free bread with a smidgen of dairy-free butter.

I jest.
Don't forget Slay
He will add some newports
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
7,286
Just to let people know: Something happened with the permissions and it may have booted a bunch of you. I let tech support know and they're gonna fix it if it hasn't been fixed already. Just sit tight.
 

Darryl M R

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,088
For those who have experiences dealing with posters who say "racism/transphobia/homophobia/x-phobia doesn't exist here" can the staff consider updating the ToS to include dismissive language around large societal issues that affects others.

Just because someone who lives in Sweden doesn't interact with those who could face -isms for being different, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. We all have biases, and we have not been given any proof to assume that certain countries are immune to them.
 

Pirate Bae

The Wolf of Turnip Street
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
4,765
??
We're aware of the technical issues with permissions right now and we're working to get them sorted out ASAP.

Oops Nep beat me to it :)
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,390
The denial of racism in Europe...like I'd be more mad at it not resulting in moderation if it didn't allow me to just shit on them for it. Relentlessly. But that's probably not the most constructive or useful behavior for discussion
 

Poodlestrike

It's salt.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
6,893
I guess it's hard to put into words, but at least for me I always feel this clash in what I believe should be allowed to be discussed and what should be moderated (as in resulting in warnings/bans) because it's unacceptable. And maybe it's because there aren't too many general purpose communities like this elsewhere that even discuss race with any level of civility (at least none that I'm a part of) that I feel the staff actually does a fairly good job at making that distinction. And it's usually in cases where it's clear the person said some egregiously racist shit. But then there are times when the staff lets certain posts go and I find myself wondering if it's better to give bans to those people or whether to let them get dogpiled on for what they said. Which is actually better for the health/sanity of the black community members? Which is better for getting those people to change their views and actually listen to what people are saying? I honestly have no idea. I might just sit back and see what people say in here, but those are my two cents
Figuring out that exact balance - what posts are better refuted, what posts are better off responded to with a lengthy vacation - is a big part of why we wanted to have this meeting in the first place. Setting where to draw the lines is important. One thing we've previously committed to, and want to continue working on, is going harder on microaggressions and JAQing off and other subtler forms of misery that clearly have a high cost on our minority communities.
 

Pirate Bae

The Wolf of Turnip Street
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
4,765
??
Actually the more I think about it, if a user wanted to deactivate their account to end any tracking and start a fresh account, how would they go about that?


C'mon bro. You know I love you, but you decided to post this?

We all know since the staff team is hosting us, we will eat gluten free bread with a smidgen of dairy-free butter.

I jest.
Just PM us or use the Contact Us form.