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Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
Also, I find this notion of "Remakes" that aren't really remakes (like FF7) incredibly odd. Just because one company (Square Enix) is taking an awful approach to remaking a classic game, everyone else should too? They can just make an old game into whatever they want, and it will still be considered a remake??

The primary qualifier to be considered a remake instead of a reboot is following the same loose plot. It's the difference between Thunderball and Never Say Never Again vs Neverending Story > Sharkboy and Lavagirl. One is the same story being told in a different way. The other is a different story that transparently lifts elements from an earlier story. That thin line between homage and massive ripoff. (Aka, 90% of the storyline in Mass Effect and Halo.)

Tomb Raider: Anniversary is a remake of Tomb Raider that makes some pretty significant design changes. It's still the same loose story and setting, but with heaps of alterations.

Far Cry: Instincts was a remake of Crytek's Far Cry for Xbox. It has major, major plot and gameplay differences. But it's still a remake. It's someone else making the same game in a different way.

An example of this that comes to mind is how EA's Bond games sometimes had two (or more) games from different developers. Gearbox's Nightfire and Eurocom's Nightfire are completely different games. They're basically... "adaptations" of a shared source material created by EA in the form of concept art and all that stuff. They look and play very differently. But if they were released years apart they would be considered remakes of each other.

Let's imagine the film Quantum of Solace were a videogame, right? Then two companies "remade" that videogame. Treyarch's "remake" was literally Call of Duty. It used the CoD engine and played like CoD. Eurocom's "remake" was a third person shooter with heavy stealth elements. Very different game. Both games follow the same loose plot, but they play very differently.

I know some people are purists, but sometimes games are made better by genre shifts. It really comes down to the game.
 

Deleted member 8593

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
27,176
Also, I find this notion of "Remakes" that aren't really remakes (like FF7) incredibly odd. Just because one company (Square Enix) is taking an awful approach to remaking a classic game, everyone else should too? They can just make an old game into whatever they want, and it will still be considered a remake???

So, if Nintendo decided to, let's say, remake Super Mario 64 (again) as an FPS where you mow down Goombas with a machine gun, blow those bunnies away with a shotgun instead of just catching them, blow Bowser to smithereens with a rocket launcher, and the game ends with Mario french kissing Peach and telling her it's time for her to give him his "cake" (not that any of this would ever happen), that would still be considered a remake??? C'mon now.

I think that the idea that remakes are beholden to some arbitrary rules a bit flawed. A remake is a new game in the first place. There have been tons of remakes that change graphics, music, controls and expand levels, add completely new content etc. Drawing a line at the camera seems weird.

I get the notion that it goes against the "spirit" of the game but one must realize that with games getting ever more complex, the "spirit" of a game can mean something entirely different to someone else. There's lots of people that love the characters and scenarios of Final Fantasy VII but don't regard the turn-based battles as integral to their experience.

And the same goes for Resident Evil 2.
 

ParsnipForest

Member
Oct 27, 2017
571
Australia
I hope they keep the A, B scenario. It increased the replay value imo.

The A/B scenarios were cool for the time but it would make way more sense to create 2 canonical scenarios, one for Leon and one for Claire, that are both fully fleshed out and combine all the best bits from the original 4 scenarios. That's the RE2 remake I want. Of course I'd like fixed camera angles (with the same control options found in REmake HD), but RE4-style wouldn't be the end of the world.
 

Akibared

Member
Oct 25, 2017
445
New Jersey
Yeah, that's a nice sentiment, but the problem with that is OG RE2 looks like garbage nowadays (which is why a lot of people wanted it remade in the first place). I want a game in the style of the original RE2 with visuals up to modern standards.

Also I agree that RE2 needs a facelift! After playing the Darkside Chronicles scenario I got a taste of what a RE2 remake could look like and I've wanted one since.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,511
Where did i say I didn't like the opinion? I have no problems with action re and consider re4 to be the best game in the series by quite a bit.

There is prolly more action RE fans than classic though, safest bet would be go action. I would prefer they experiment with the formula more.

Then go lobby capcom for what you want out of RE8 and quit complaining about a game by definition not being what you want for not being what you want. Go play tew or last of us again and quit trying to force the square peg that is RE2 into the round hole of the shooter genre.

============

This doesn't really stop me from pointing out the absurdity of walking into a thread about a remake of a game, ask for the game to be utterly destroyed, then get confused and upset when some one points out the reasonable reading of such logic resulting in a new game then why are you not asking for a new game entirely because you obviously dont want RE2.

That is your opinion and it is respected , but in a wishlist thread the same thing you see as " destroying the game " is for someone else a dream enhancement to the game and in a wishlist thread you can't blame or accuse people of their wishes

The fact thst not a single one of you have actually contested this perfectly reasonable argument and have instead resorted to ad hominem attacks and circular reasoning is quite strange, and more than a little telling. I mean please if you even can, tell me why it is you even want the game being remade?

If by you you include me I suppose , then since when a wish in a wishlist became an argument or even a discussion

In a wishlist thread wishing Remake 2 to be an Open world Dark souls game is just a personal wish , you can't blame or accuse people of their wishes
In a discussion thread Saying that Game X is for them better than Game Y is a personal opinion and tastes , you can't blame or accuse people of their tastes
In a discussion thread Saying that Game X sold or have a MC score more than game Y while the truth is the reverse , then thats where you can reply and correct people with truth and tell them they are wrong
 

Deleted member 1067

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,860
Dr. Caroll

Holy shit it only took like 3 pages but someone finally pulled the context card I was hoping for since the start of the thread!

This is ultimately why I in actuality dont really give a shit what direction they ultimately take it in.

If people were really looking at my posts before i started tearing down badly formed arguments because I was bored, it's clear that more than anything else I just don't want them to walk halfway between two styles in order to not kick up too much ruckas and end up with a half assed game no one is happy with. Introducing new mechanicaltwists on old concepts in order to recontextualize them is as old as art itself, and if done well ends up with genius work like re4.

What I more than anything other tban the above from them if they do make a change is to not just take an easy way out and copy re4 or rev. Do something interesting and unique that fits the feel and style of re2.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,155
Remember now guys, try and keep it civil and respectful than having a good at someones difference of opinions. We are all entitled with our own wishes and likes to see in this series, no matter how different that can be.

The series has evolved into a big sand box of different mechanics that there's going to be a diversity of loves and hates with what's been done in the years gone by.
Please don't force an opinion over a user for being different but be more considerate and debate in a good manner of respect both in views and understanding why they are as it is.

We're all civilians and not Ganados here!
 

Tetsujin

Unshakable Resolve
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,466
Germany
Look at REmake. Do exactly that but with RE2. Done.

This.

REmake is considered by many to be a great example of a remake done right. It's recognizably RE1 with a fresh coat of paint and enough new shit thrown at you to keep veteran players on their toes and a few cool new story/"lore" expansions.
If you remake a game of a series that is home to one of the best game remakes already, why wouldn't you take direct inspiration from that? I don't really wish for a "reimagination" remake Ă  la FFVII (as much as I'm also excited for that one!)

Folding RE3 into the mix would be amazing although that would be too good to be true.
Maybe a short Ada Wong scenario like Separate Ways in RE4 though?

I hope they keep the two scenarios intact. Even though Claire A / Leon B is my preferred one and iirc also canon the other one should remain for replay value. Maybe even throw in additional alternative "what if" endings.

I want most of the soundtrack to stay intact with higher quality recordings/arrangements. RE2 probably has my favorite soundtrack of the series.
Keep the e-guitars for the true ending credits :D
 

Potterson

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,416
OT, can you add a poll about TPP vs FPP? I'm curious...

I would love it to be TPP survival-horror as close (gameplay wise) to RE4 as possible. Or Dead Space.

Don't change the story, just build all locations from ground up so we have no problems with camera. Also do NOT make it open-world or even semi open-world. I want my linear experience. And you can get rid of some weird puzzles.
 

Deleted member 1067

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,860
Remember now guys, try and keep it civil and respectful than having a good at someones difference of opinions. We are all entitled with our own wishes and likes to see in this series, no matter how different that can be.

The series has evolved into a big sand box of different mechanics that there's going to be a diversity of loves and hates with what's been done in the years gone by.
Please don't force an opinion over a user for being different but be more considerate and debate in a good manner of respect both in views and understanding why they are as it is.

We're all civilians and not Ganados here!
I still dont understand why they're taking such offense at me labeling their arguments as hostile and destructive when they absolutely are. The thing I really wanted to hear from them that Dr. Caroll so aptly made clear is that so fucking what it's hostile and destructive! Great art is usually almost always destructive in some way. Embrace it! It's not a bad thing. Stand up for your convictions and eludicate why, dont cower in a corner and shout insults.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,155
I still dont understand why they're taking such offense at me labeling their arguments as hostile and destructive when they absolutely are. The thing I really wanted to hear from them that Dr. Caroll so aptly made clear is that so fucking what it's hostile and destructive! Great art is usually almost always destructive in some way. Embrace it! It's not a bad thing. Stand up for your convictions and eludicate why, dont cower in a corner and shout insults.

If you want to make enemies, try and change something.
The series is big enough to allow sub genres that give game experiences around a certain range of audiences needs that still fit with what makes Resident Evil. Innovation and experimentation is a part of what makes a long running series keeps going and not become stagnate and become redundant in sales and brand health that can risk of being stopped.

However, when a game is too different and doesn't fit what the brand and series is suppose to be about in a huge drastic way then it might as well be a new IP all-together. That is what you have to consider and all of the different games and styles done in this universe still keep the spirit of what makes Resident Evil. You have to understand that form of way to know that anything too different without any of the series DNA shown at all it might as well be called something else and the fan base will be heavily alienated at such a foreign object.

That's where the idea of this is going wrong.
 

Include

Member
Oct 25, 2017
836
I want it to be the same as RE2 but with today graphics. That's all I am asking for to be honest.

If they really wanna appeal to the RE7 crowd they can add FPV in the options.

And hey if they are crazy they can add a mode with Co-op, obviously the story will not be the same but they can make it so it's just someone inviting themselves in another player story without being relevant to it.
 

Deleted member 1067

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,860
If you want to make enemies, try and change something.
The series is big enough to allow sub genres that give game experiences around a certain range of audiences needs that still fit with what makes Resident Evil. Innovation and experimentation is a part of what makes a long running series keeps going and not become stagnate and become redundant in sales and brand health that can risk of being stopped.

However, when a game is too different and doesn't fit what the brand and series is suppose to be about in a huge drastic way then it might as well be a new IP all-together. That is what you have to consider and all of the different games and styles done in this universe still keep the spirit of what makes Resident Evil. You have to understand that form of way to know that anything too different without any of the series DNA shown at all it might as well be called something else and the fan base will be heavily alienated at such a foreign object.

That's where the idea of this is going wrong.
Of course, which is why I said a few posts up just like i did in the REera discord earlier this week that I really don't have a strong preference either way. I just want them to be headstrong and bold whatever direction they take it in. Personally my heart yearns for another REmake type game, but if they do something weird and crazy with it i won't complain either.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,155
Of course, which is why I said a few posts up just like i did in the REera discord earlier this week that I really don't have a strong preference either way. I just want them to be headstrong and bold whatever direction they take it in. Personally my heart yearns for another REmake type game, but if they do something weird and crazy with it i won't complain either.

Now that's a good respectful way to keep it as that and I am all for experimentation and different perspectives but as a sub title that is cleverly done in the series DNA.

I want REmake 2 to be the same REmake in every way with design and expansion with an advanced further RE engine. That's my default wish to have and it's a very likely one with all things considered to go in its favor.
 

Claymore

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2
London, UK
This.

REmake is considered by many to be a great example of a remake done right. It's recognizably RE1 with a fresh coat of paint and enough new shit thrown at you to keep veteran players on their toes and a few cool new story/"lore" expansions.
If you remake a game of a series that is home to one of the best game remakes already, why wouldn't you take direct inspiration from that? I don't really wish for a "reimagination" remake Ă  la FFVII (as much as I'm also excited for that one!)

Folding RE3 into the mix would be amazing although that would be too good to be true.
Maybe a short Ada Wong scenario like Separate Ways in RE4 though?

I hope they keep the two scenarios intact. Even though Claire A / Leon B is my preferred one and iirc also canon the other one should remain for replay value. Maybe even throw in additional alternative "what if" endings.

I want most of the soundtrack to stay intact with higher quality recordings/arrangements. RE2 probably has my favorite soundtrack of the series.
Keep the e-guitars for the true ending credits :D

All of what you've just said.
 

kc44135

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,722
Ohio
I think that the idea that remakes are beholden to some arbitrary rules a bit flawed. A remake is a new game in the first place. There have been tons of remakes that change graphics, music, controls and expand levels, add completely new content etc. Drawing a line at the camera seems weird.

I get the notion that it goes against the "spirit" of the game but one must realize that with games getting ever more complex, the "spirit" of a game can mean something entirely different to someone else. There's lots of people that love the characters and scenarios of Final Fantasy VII but don't regard the turn-based battles as integral to their experience.

And the same goes for Resident Evil 2.
Conversely, I find the idea that remakes shouldn't be beholden to the original source material in some way to to be flawed. What's the point in remaking a game, if it doesn't resemble the original at all? Just to capitalize on the nostalgia people have for the name, rather than the game itself? Why not just make a new game at that point, if the intent of a remake is not to take an older game and modernize it? Why not just create a game with a first-person perspective and call it RE8, or a game with an over-the-shoulder perspective, and call it Revelations 3?

That's essentially what you'd be asking for with an RE4 style RE2. It would be RE2 in name only. I draw the line at the perspective, because changing the perspective changes everything. Let's just look at how combat changes, for starters.

When you give the player an over the shoulder perspective, you give them the ability to aim. This also means you give them the ability to miss. You must now balance the game around this, giving the player more plentiful ammo, implementing dynamic difficulty, etc. You must now make the enemies move more quickly and attack more aggressively to make them challenging to foght, and must give the player more movement options to give them a fair chance as well. You must create more open environments to accommodate all of this (as opposed to the claustrophobic corridors of the original RE2). All of this (and so much more) just from changing the perspective alone.

I have no issue with changes of other sorts to the game. By all means, add in new areas, new enemies, new characters, new weapons, more story, more bosses, more everything. I'm 100% fine with all of that. But if Capcom wants to call this game Resident Evil 2, I think there should be some degree of respect and faithfulness to original game. You shouldn't remake a sidescroller as a 3D platformer, you shouldn't remake Mario 64 as an FPS, and you shouldn't remake a classic like RE2 as a TPS. I think they should follow the REmake model, essentially (tons of changes, but faithful to the core concepts of the original game's design).
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,865
I'm afraid that RE2 will add the same kind of corny fluff as the latter REs. RE2's story made the game for me, it was to the point, it had incredible characters and a lot of charm. RE2 did more for the story of the series than every RE combined coming after it. More than a decade has passed in the timeline of RE and characters hardly evolved from RE2, that's how good it was.

I'd like to relive the love story between Ada and Leon, the guardian relation between Claire and Sherry, it was a Hollywood movie made as a game without the budget but with even more charm. You wanted to know more about them, and even as a horror game it took the time to be considerate and lovely at times. I want to see more of that in the remake.
 

kc44135

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,722
Ohio
I'm afraid that RE2 will add the same kind of corny fluff as the latter REs. RE2's story made the game for me, it was to the point, it had incredible characters and a lot of charm. RE2 did more for the story of the series than every RE combined coming after it. More than a decade has passed in the timeline of RE and characters hardly evolved from RE2, that's how good it was.

I'd like to relive the love story between Ada and Leon, the guardian relation between Claire and Sherry, it was a Hollywood movie made as a game without the budget but with even more charm. You wanted to know more about them, and even as a horror game it took the time to be considerate and lovely at times. I want to see more of that in the remake.
While I'm somewhat doubtful about the direction they're going to take this game, I really doubt they're going to change the core of the story or tone of the game. They may add to it (similar to the Lisa Trevor subplot in REmake) and it will surely have better voice acting and writing, but I do think the plot will largely remain faithful to the main beats of the original RE2.
 

emir

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,501
New character models. Not the old and terrible one, especially Leon's. Non-static environment and fixed camera perspective.
 
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Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
Conversely, I find the idea that remakes shouldn't be beholden to the original source material in some way to to be flawed. What's the point in remaking a game, if it doesn't resemble the original at all? Just to capitalize on the nostalgia people have for the name, rather than the game itself? Why not just make a new game at that point, if the intent of a remake is not to take an older game and modernize it? Why not just create a game with a first-person perspective and call it RE8, or a game with an over-the-shoulder perspective, and call it Revelations 3?
The guiding factor with Resident Evil 2 is established Resident Evil canon. This is what binds all the Resident Evil games together. Whatever changes they make, Resident Evil 2 Remake can't contradict Resident Evil 6, for example. I think this is a sticking point. Resident Evil as a series is unified by its narrative, not its gameplay. To be a Resident Evil game, a game must take place in the established Resident Evil universe. Otherwise it's just an unrelated game wearing a brand.

Games are a bit unique because with film you don't generally remake individual entries in a series and slot the new versions into continuity. Usually remakes are standalone works. John Carpenter's The Thing was a remake that took a lot of liberties with its source material. But it wasn't required to slot into a 20+ year running continuity. Imagine going back and remaking Terminator 3. (Which is a darn good film, BTW.) Should it be a faithful remake of Terminator 3, practical effects and all? Or should it be a fresh take that tries to, for example, be tonally closer to Terminator 2? I don't think there's a "right" answer there.
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,865
While I'm somewhat doubtful about the direction they're going to take this game, I really doubt they're going to change the core of the story or tone of the game. They may add to it (similar to the Lisa Trevor subplot in REmake) and it will surely have better voice acting and writing, but I do think the plot will largely remain faithful to the main beats of the original RE2.

Well I feel like the audience expects a meatier game than REmake considering today's expectations, so I can easily see Capcom dramatically expanding on the story further than a subplot.

Like, for a huge production like RE2, in today's world, a REmake bis wouldn't cut it for anyone outside the bubble we're in you know ? They'd have to make something big i feel
 

Musou Tensei

Guest
I want it to be what REmake was to RE1, no 1st person like RE7, no 3rd Person like RE 4-6, but tbh I doubt I will get what I want.
 

Deleted member 8593

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
27,176
Conversely, I find the idea that remakes shouldn't be beholden to the original source material in some way to to be flawed. What's the point in remaking a game, if it doesn't resemble the original at all? Just to capitalize on the nostalgia people have for the name, rather than the game itself? Why not just make a new game at that point, if the intent of a remake is not to take an older game and modernize it? Why not just create a game with a first-person perspective and call it RE8, or a game with an over-the-shoulder perspective, and call it Revelations 3?

That's essentially what you'd be asking for with an RE4 style RE2. It would be RE2 in name only. I draw the line at the perspective, because changing the perspective changes everything. Let's just look at how combat changes, for starters.

When you give the player an over the shoulder perspective, you give them the ability to aim. This also means you give them the ability to miss. You must now balance the game around this, giving the player more plentiful ammo, implementing dynamic difficulty, etc. You must now make the enemies move more quickly and attack more aggressively to make them challenging to foght, and must give the player more movement options to give them a fair chance as well. You must create more open environments to accommodate all of this (as opposed to the claustrophobic corridors of the original RE2). All of this (and so much more) just from changing the perspective alone.

I have no issue with changes of other sorts to the game. By all means, add in new areas, new enemies, new characters, new weapons, more story, more bosses, more everything. I'm 100% fine with all of that. But if Capcom wants to call this game Resident Evil 2, I think there should be some degree of respect and faithfulness to original game. You shouldn't remake a sidescroller as a 3D platformer, you shouldn't remake Mario 64 as an FPS, and you shouldn't remake a classic like RE2 as a TPS. I think they should follow the REmake model, essentially (tons of changes, but faithful to the core concepts of the original game's design).

Obviously, if you stretch the definition of it too far, you'll eventually end up with a product that barely resembles the original and that point will vary from person to person. For me making it third person and changing everything around it to preserve the general feeling of playing RE2 is still within the realms of reason while someone might take umbrage at additional elements as you suggest. For them RE2 is a specific story with specific gameplay.

What I'm saying is, a remake is already in a sense an adaptation of the original. It's not the same game anymore anyway and it's unreasonable to expect everyone to agree on which changes are within the confines of the source material.
 

MrS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,085

Mr_Zombie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
971
Poland
Fixed camera angles are a product of technical limitation that don't really belong anymore. They're... awkward. Not "bad", just awkward. If Resident Evil 1 had been an N64 game instead of an PS1/Saturn game, it would have been an FPS or an over the shoulder TPS. The fixed camera angles were a result of the Saturn/PS1 just not being powerful enough.

Yes, and no.

IIRC the first concept of RE1 was a game with first person perspective, but technical limitations of PS1 didn't allow the team to create the game - with the level of details in the environment - they wanted, hence the prerendered backgrounds and fixed camera angles.

HOWEVER, nowadays fixed camera angles can still be valid as a simple artistic decision. Silent Hill 2, 3 and 4 had 3D environments and yet decided to use a mix of static and dynamic camera angles for the atmosphere sake. Same with CODE: Veronica or the "hookman" version of RE4. Fixed camera angles allows you to play with players expectations, to focus on some details in the environment that would be lost otherwise, to control what the player sees and what stays hidden.

It was especially obvious in the RE2 remake fan project, where when you played with over the shoulder camera, the environment lost a lot of its soul, since you were constantly focused on whats directly in front of you, and not whats around you. It diminished the whole "zombie apocalypse" feel of destroyed city since the game couldn't show you the bigger picture (e.g. dead bodies somewhere in the background).

Fixed camera angles are particularly glaring when you play games with a mouse and keyboard because with a KB+M, 90% of your directional control comes from moving the camera. Which is impossible if you have fixed camera angles. Ironically, tank controls are somewhat better suited if you're playing such games with a keyboard.

I've played all traditional (RE1-CV, REmake, Zero) games on keyboard and had zero problems with them. Moreover, I liked them better on PC than on consoles due to the controls. If the RE2 remake plays just like REmake and Zero, then controls on PC are the least of the games problems.
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
Well I feel like the audience expects a meatier game than REmake considering today's expectations, so I can easily see Capcom dramatically expanding on the story further than a subplot.
My guess is that RE2 Remake will heavily flesh out Ada Wong's story. Remember that RE6 established that "The Family", namely Derek Simmons, were responsible for the nuking of Raccoon City. Simmons also took custody of Sherry immediately after the events of RE2. An Ada Wong campaign isn't unlikely, as well as the usual journal entries and the like smoothing over the retcons.
 

AuthenticM

Son Altesse Sérénissime
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,085
Good thread, TC. I'm very glad you loved the original RE2!

Basically, everything that was applied to the original game when doing REmake, every thought process, every design decision: they need to be applied again with REmake 2. REmake is the high bar of how to properly remake a classic. It's a masterpiece. And it's the perfect template for a remake of RE2.

I also very much hope that they use the RE7 engine for it. Christ that game looks good. You don't need pre-rendered backgrounds anymore with that engine. Just fixe camera angles.
 

King Dodongo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,026
Unpopular opinion, but I thought RE2 kinda sucked compared to the others (to be fair I didn't play OG RE1) So a remake would go a long way to fix this iteration.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
70
Vienna
RE 2 like all the other classic RE games are adventures. The focus lies on puzzle solving,item and time management.(speedruns)

The Enemies are only there as obstacles, they are not the focus of the game. If Capcom would change it to a third person perspective it would become a shooter, like RE4.

I have nothing against RE4, but a remake needs to stay true to the original. What Capcom did with the first remake serves as a perfect blueprint.

I would be amazed if they manage to fuck this up.
 

Jawmuncher

Crisis Dino
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
38,506
Ibis Island
I just don't want it first person. I've already accept RE7-9 will be that. So we don't need any other games like that. If they wanna make it a separate mode or bonus sure. But FPS does not need to be every RE game going forward.

Regardless of that. I don't think making it Third Person will all the sudden make it a pure action game. The mechanics at play and design of the environment play a factor into the game as well. A lot of post here make it sound like third person will automatically equal RE6 king fu.

I guess it's slighty understandable. Easier to be skeptical than put any faith in capcom. Hell I do it now. But I think they'd be able to pull it of with a new mindset. Especially if older devs from RE2 are indeed working on it
 

Mr_Zombie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
971
Poland
As for the wishlist:
- better puzzles; RE2 puzzles were far too easy
- more time spent in the city itself
- make the A/B scenarios dependencies more meaningful; if you do something in scenario A, the character in scenario B should really feel the consequences of your actions
- add the "randomness" feature from RE3 (two or three variants of puzzle solution, enemies placement, weapons placements etc.)
- return to Ada being a more tragic character than the sarcastic "I'm above you all" one from RE4 / Damnation / RE6 (I love Ada, but her monologues in RE6 were tiresome after a while)
 

kc44135

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,722
Ohio
The guiding factor with Resident Evil 2 is established Resident Evil canon. This is what binds all the Resident Evil games together. Whatever changes they make, Resident Evil 2 Remake can't contradict Resident Evil 6, for example. I think this is a sticking point. Resident Evil as a series is unified by its narrative, not its gameplay. To be a Resident Evil game, a game must take place in the established Resident Evil universe. Otherwise it's just an unrelated game wearing a brand.

Games are a bit unique because with film you don't generally remake individual entries in a series and slot the new versions into continuity. Usually remakes are standalone works. John Carpenter's The Thing was a remake that took a lot of liberties with its source material. But it wasn't required to slot into a 20+ year running continuity. Imagine going back and remaking Terminator 3. (Which is a darn good film, BTW.) Should it be a faithful remake of Terminator 3, practical effects and all? Or should it be a fresh take that tries to, for example, be tonally closer to Terminator 2? I don't think there's a "right" answer there.
So, as long as it fits established canon, anything goes? I really can't agree with that. With movies, it's the story that's most important. With games (which are an interactive medium), it's the interactive elements, the gameplay mechanics, that are most important (for most games). RE2 without fixed camera angles isn't really RE2.

Regardless of the reasons for their implementation, the camera angles influenced every aspect of RE2's design. To remove them would result in something truly unrecognizable. I also don't feel fixed camera angles are "bad" or "obsolete" , or that they can't contribute something unique to the experience of a game, but that's a completely discussion.
Well I feel like the audience expects a meatier game than REmake considering today's expectations, so I can easily see Capcom dramatically expanding on the story further than a subplot.

Like, for a huge production like RE2, in today's world, a REmake bis wouldn't cut it for anyone outside the bubble we're in you know ? They'd have to make something big i feel
What do you mean? Content? REmake was about 8-10 hours, with a decent amount of replayability. I think that would actually be pretty good for RE2, especially if it had four different scenarios at the same length.

If you're referring to the story, then yeah, they're probably going to add a lot to it. I still don't think they would change the tone of the game tho, or do anything crazy like clones or whatnot, tho.
Obviously, if you stretch the definition of it too far, you'll eventually end up with a product that barely resembles the original and that point will vary from person to person. For me making it third person and changing everything around it to preserve the general feeling of playing RE2 is still within the realms of reason while someone might take umbrage at additional elements as you suggest. For them RE2 is a specific story with specific gameplay.

What I'm saying is, a remake is already in a sense an adaptation of the original. It's not the same game anymore anyway and it's unreasonable to expect everyone to agree on which changes are within the confines of the source material.
Yeah, but that's my point, tho. Changing the camera angles is going too far. You can't "change it to third-person and change everything around it" and preserve re original experience in the process. It's not possible. Changing the perspective on RE2 is essentially the same thing as changing it's genre. The fixed camera angles are too engrained into every aspect of the game.
 

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Yes, and no.

IIRC the first concept of RE1 was a game with first person perspective, but technical limitations of PS1 didn't allow the team to create the game - with the level of details in the environment - they wanted, hence the prerendered backgrounds and fixed camera angles.

HOWEVER, nowadays fixed camera angles can still be valid as a simple artistic decision. Silent Hill 2, 3 and 4 had 3D environments and yet decided to use a mix of static and dynamic camera angles for the atmosphere sake. Same with CODE: Veronica or the "hookman" version of RE4. Fixed camera angles allows you to play with players expectations, to focus on some details in the environment that would be lost otherwise, to control what the player sees and what stays hidden.

It was especially obvious in the RE2 remake fan project, where when you played with over the shoulder camera, the environment lost a lot of its soul, since you were constantly focused on whats directly in front of you, and not whats around you. It diminished the whole "zombie apocalypse" feel of destroyed city since the game couldn't show you the bigger picture (e.g. dead bodies somewhere in the background).

First off, I agree with your general assessment about fixed camera angles. I posted earlier in this thread that an approach like God of War would probably work great. A dynamic but guided camera would probably the best modern approximation of old RE. The advantages of such a system are obvious because they let you do a lot that you can't do with a player controlled camera.

At the same time, a player controlled camera also has its advantages as it allows for greater and more independent exploration and examination of the environments. Arguably, it also makes for a more immersive experience since it is more direct. Using the RE2 fan remake as an argument against it is a bit flawed because I don't think anyone is asking for the same game, 1:1, with RE4 style camera. Obviously, such a game would have to modify the environments from the original and I think that games like TLOU perfectly showcase what's achievable in third person. That doesn't mean it's easy though.
 

Mr_Zombie

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So, as long as it fits established canon, anything goes? I really can't agree with that. With movies, it's the story that's most important. With games (which are an interactive medium), it's the interactive elements, the gameplay mechanics, that are most important (for most games). RE2 without fixed camera angles isn't really RE2.

Theoretically, yes.

Memories of Lost City from Darkside Chronicles - even though it changes the gameplay completely, plays in fpp, puts Leon and Claire together for the whole journey, changes a lot of elements etc. - could still replace the original RE2 since all the story beats and references are there. If you only played that game (scenario) instead of the original RE2 you wouldn't be lost whenever someone mentions RE2 events, characters, monsters, places in post-RE2 games.

Not that I would like that, of course. I would prefer for Capcom to went the REmake route - take RE2, fix all its problems, update the graphic and story, add some new mechanics and enemies, play with veteran's expectations (e.g. the dogs-through-the-window moment from REmake) and, above all, just be a good game ;)
 

kc44135

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First off, I agree with your general assessment about fixed camera angles. I posted earlier in this thread that an approach like God of War would probably work great. A dynamic but guided camera would probably the best modern approximation of old RE. The advantages of such a system are obvious because they let you do a lot that you can't do with a player controlled camera.
Now, this I actually agree with, and would be OK with. Real-time environments and dynamic camera angles that follow the player through environments would be absolutely fine. It would allow for easier/better implementation of analog controls, make camera angles transitions less disorienting since they wouldn't be happening constantly, and still preserve the core of RE2's design. They would still retain the original games atmosphere and cinematic sensibilities (and wouldn't allow the player control over the camera), and would allow for a similar style of combat and gameplay to the original game.
 

stone1024

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Wow, great thread... I'm really looking forward to RE2 Remake, can't wait for more info. I did not know about that interview you posted, puts my heart at rest some in regards to graphical direction, I want the game made in the vein of Resident Evil Remake (prerendered, more areas to explore. more story). Maybe tomorrow we'll learn more (Sony Paris Games Week)? Hope so. My most wanted game on the PS4 (heck any platform) at this point.
 

Jawmuncher

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Curious where the discussion goes once the camera gets out. We might potentially see the game this year and get an answer. Hopefully there isn't a lot of shunning the game for a change in perspective. Especially if said person was alright with RE7
 

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Yeah, but that's my point, tho. Changing the camera angles is going too far. You can't "change it to third-person and change everything around it" and preserve re original experience in the process. It's not possible. Changing the perspective on RE2 is essentially the same thing as changing it's genre. The fixed camera angles are too engrained into every aspect of the game.

Yeah but you are also proposing changes that change the "RE2 experience". It's just that your definition of "RE2 experience" differs from mine.
 

kc44135

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Theoretically, yes.

Memories of Lost City from Darkside Chronicles - even though it changes the gameplay completely, plays in fpp, puts Leon and Claire together for the whole journey, changes a lot of elements etc. - could still replace the original RE2 since all the story beats and references are there. If you only played that game (scenario) instead of the original RE2 you wouldn't be lost whenever someone mentions RE2 events, characters, monsters, places in post-RE2 games.

Not that I would like that, of course. I would prefer for Capcom to went the REmake route - take RE2, fix all its problems, update the graphic and story, add some new mechanics and enemies, play with veteran's expectations (e.g. the dogs-through-the-window moment from REmake) and, above all, just be a good game ;)
I get what you're trying to say, but... Darkside Chronicles replacing RE2? Ewww...

Also, yes, what you want from RE2 is exactly what I want from it as well. Essentially, a new game with plenty of additions/changes/surprises, but in the same style, and with the same premise/setting as the original. REmake 2, for all intents and purposes, is what I'd want.
 

Jawmuncher

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It's all gonna depend on the budget. If this is a smaller project I could see them keeping fixed. If they're going big budget and essentially treating this like RE8. Sorry but fixed just ain't gonna happen. If people thought FPS was a hard sell for the series than fixed camera Is another matter entirely.

Now I know someone'll go "but the sales of REmake HD and RE0". Yeah those were good. The budgets for them were also drastically lower since theyre just ports. 2 million for a new entry that's a big budget affair (current total sales of REmake HD) would not be a good look on a big budget.

Currently as much as some dislike the news. More evidence is piling on it being Third Person and a big budget remake with lots of changes like FF7R.
 

Hank Hill

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I just hope it's more like REmake and less like RE 4.
 

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What's up with the nostalgia? I'd prefer the game without tank controls and fixed camera angles and I think the game would be better for it, otherwise why even release a remake as opposed to an HD remaster? The remake should incorporate new ideas from later iterations as long as they aren't in conflict thematically within RE2 and I don't think Over the Shoulder Aiming and modern controls are in conflict with the original game but rather complement it.

I just hope it's more like REmake and less like RE 4.
I'm of the completely opposite opinion. RE4 has inspired a number of other great titles that have improved on its formula, Dead Space 2, The Last of Us and The Evil Within 2 for example. I'd like to see REMake2 to be a further refinement of that formula while still retaining the essence of the original.
 

Jawmuncher

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At this point it's best to just leave your expectations at the door. I say that coming from having some strong expectations on what I thought RE7 would be. It'll just end up making you jaded for awhile until the game is closer to release and you're finally not blinded and willing to give it a chance whatever it'll be.

Part of the reason at this point I don't care what style it is (as long as it's not first person lol).
 

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At this point it's best to just leave your expectations at the door. I say that coming from having some strong expectations on what I thought RE7 would be. It'll just end up making you jaded for awhile until the game is closer to release and you're finally not blinded and willing to give it a chance whatever it'll be.

Part of the reason at this point I don't care what style it is (as long as it's not first person lol).

Can't wait to find out that the RE2 boardgame Kickstarter is Capcom comissioned.
 

kc44135

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Curious where the discussion goes once the camera gets out. We might potentially see the game this year and get an answer. Hopefully there isn't a lot of shunning the game for a change in perspective. Especially if said person was alright with RE7
Well, the difference with RE7 is that it was a new game, tho. RE4-6 are my favorite RE's by far, and I thought 7 was great, too. I'm not opposed to change/innovation within the franchise (quite the opposite, in fact). But, even so, I still don't want RE2 to play anything like them. I just want RE2 to play like RE2 because... well, it's supposed to be a remake of RE2.

That said, I won't shun it. Whatever it ends up being, I will still play it. It will essentially be a new RE game even if it doesn't resemble the original, and I won't pass that up. I'm just trying to express what I want from RE2, and why I feel it should be that way. There will probably still be tons of hate/shunning from people no matter what perspective it has tho (probably from people who will still but the game too, like me). :p
Yeah but you are also proposing changes that change the "RE2 experience". It's just that your definition of "RE2 experience" differs from mine.
Yeah, I guess so, man. I just think changing the perspective would be going too far, while the other changes I mentioned wouldn't change the core experience of the game (it would be like REmake, essentially). But, agree to disagree, I suppose.