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What do you think RE2's Metacritic Score will be?

  • 93-100

    Votes: 467 21.8%
  • 89-92

    Votes: 1,050 49.1%
  • 85-88

    Votes: 500 23.4%
  • 81-84

    Votes: 77 3.6%
  • <80

    Votes: 45 2.1%

  • Total voters
    2,140
  • Poll closed .

Ronin1138

Banned
Jan 10, 2019
246
The other problem with tyrant/mrx being in scenario A is that it takes away from Birkin who is essential to the plot and should be the main presence that menaces you through the game like in the original.
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
12,838
Australia
Only in games would an 8/10 rating be "eh".

It is weird, when it feels like 5/10 should be 'Average'. One explanation I've heard for this is that while in other forms of media the 1/10 and 2/10 scores are just for shitty media, in games they're more reserved for examples that are actually broken and bug-ridden on a technical level, with the really-shitty-but-technically-sound stuff getting 3s and 4s. Sometimes I think games should have two scores, with one being for the technical merit, but then who decides what fits under what?
 

Nerrel

Member
Oct 31, 2017
406
I've seen this sentiment these last few days about A/B scenarios and my doubt remains the same: isn't A significantly larger in this version than in the original? The game is more substantial now than it ever was, with some important 2nd Story elements having made the transition to the first playthrough. B's now a different experience to what we saw in the 1990s, "lesser" wouldn't be an inappropiate word to describe it, but it's only as a consequence of A being expanded/improved and a change of priorities at Capcom (a "remake" not following the original step-by-step).

The RPD and sewers are definitely larger. I think the streets are cut down a little (they're barely in the game on Leon's side) and the lab is about as big as the A lab was. The B scenario lab is where the original campaigns diverged most and you got a completely different area to explore; that's all removed in the remake and you basically just get the A version of the lab. So while the new 1st campaign is fuller, I think overall the combined CA+LB+LA+CB still gave you more content. Or maybe it just feels that way because of how replayable it was.

I've made this same point many times. Content hasn't been cut from A/B, it's just been included in BOTH. It's the people complaining about cut content that are actually advocating for content to be cut. They want stuff cut from A and only included in B and vice versa.
No, they did not combine all the content into one campaign and that wouldn't even be possible to do. Anything that changed as a direct consequence of the A character's actions is not in the new game, the biggest example being the elevator breaking down and leading into a totally different area of the lab on the B run. I don't really want to go through and list all of it again because you don't seem to be acknowledging these examples, and I have no idea why... Just admit they cut some things and that you don't really mind it?

Things like alternate death scenes and different character meetings in the B scenarios made replays a lot more interesting and can't be merged into one story. You can't cram two different death scenes for a character into the same scenario... although the remake did cram the same death scene in four times. The original gave you enough unique content each time to make all 4 games worth seeing, and a lot of that new content was an alternate take on the same idea. It made things unpredictable since the story and gameplay wouldn't unfold the way you expected it to based on the first run. Even after finishing the game twice, you could still be surprised by what happened in the next two runs.

I never realized how much replayability that system added until finishing the new remake and being so underwhelmed by the 2nd run. They clearly didn't spend as much time on it as they should have, and if they didn't have enough time they shouldn't have put it in. It should have just been a single Leon and a single Claire with a cohesive story.
 

Andrew-Ryan

Banned
Dec 4, 2018
645
No, they did not combine all the content into one campaign and that wouldn't even be possible to do. Anything that changed as a direct consequence of the A character's actions is not in the new game, the biggest example being the elevator breaking down and leading into a totally different area of the lab on the B run. I don't really want to go through and list all of it again because you don't seem to be acknowledging these examples, and I have no idea why...
Why are you lying? I already acknowledged this in a reply nearly a week ago and you ignored me

https://www.resetera.com/threads/resident-evil-2-review-thread.94976/page-48

I'm not talking about zapping. A/B and zapping are different discussion. REmake2 doesn't have zapping, the devs confirmed it cut from the start and it's still not in the final game. How you/I complain about a system being "junk" or not "polished because of time" if it's not even included at all anyway.

I actually made another post yesterday before we even had this discussion where I said the zapping system was a more legit concern. Whilst it was underdeveloped in RE2 and it's not a huge miss here, I said it would have been better that instead of cutting it they actually expanded it in REmake2. So I guess we agree on that.

But I still don't agree on A/B since the content by and large is still there expect now it's more seamlessly included in each scenario rather than being cut across two different ones and requiring repetition to experience.

A/B and zapping are two different systems. The VAST MAJORITY of the A/B scenario different were not impacted by zapping.



Just admit they cut some things that you don't really mind it?
I've said this multiple times. It's not my fault you're ignoring my posts or being willfully obtuse. I don't think any of the "cut content" has had a detrimental impact on the game at all or made it a lesser experience. I don't think things like 1 crow jump scare outweighs the massive improvements to gameplay they made.

For me it's a new RE made in the classic survival horror vain after years of action RE's, and that's exactly what I wanted. If you wanted an exact 1:1 replica that was going to replace RE2 and make it totally redundant then fine. I didn't want that, RE2 exists if I want to play it in EXACTLY that fashion right down to all the same details, I don't need a graphically updated version since it looks fine and I actually love it's art style and graphics. I'm a big Crash Bandicoot fan and I'm not onboard with the remakes not because they're "souless", but because the games already exists and I've already played them countless times. I want a new Crash made in that style, not the same thing I've played before.

Things like alternate death scenes and different character meetings in the B scenarios made replays a lot more interesting and can't be merged into one story. You can't cram two different death scenes for a character into the same scenario... although the remake did cram the same death scene in four times. The original gave you enough unique content each time to make all 4 games worth seeing, and a lot of that new content was an alternate take on the same idea. It made things unpredictable since the story and gameplay wouldn't unfold the way you expected it to based on the first run. Even after finishing the game twice, you could still be surprised by what happened in the next two runs.
No I don't think replaying the same exact 3-4 hours of gameplay 4 times and then the same 1-2 hours 2 times to see a few different cutscenes is a good design choice.

Just admit they artificially and cheaply tried to increase the games short length and that you don't really mind it?

I never realized how much replayability that system added until finishing the new remake and being so underwhelmed by the 2nd run.
I think you're massively over exaggerating how replayable RE2 was but whatever. We're going in circles over this so we'll agree to disagree. You're happy replaying 75-90% of the same game 4 times to see the 25-10% differences, I'm not.

They clearly didn't spend as much time on it as they should have,
They said since the E3 announcement that A/B was not going to be anything like the original and that they were two separate campaigns

https://www.relyonhorror.com/in-dep...hi-and-tsuyoshi-kanda-explain-how-they-do-it/

Yoshiaki Hirabayashi said:
So for that reason we have a Leon campaign and a Claire campaign, they're separate and you can choose which one you want to play first. We did simplify it a bit and make it more elegant by eliminating the A/B distinction and sort of meshing together what happens to the character's A and B scenarios into one story.

They didn't rush anything or run out of time. That was the design choice from the start. They told everyone about it when they basically properly revealed the game. It's your own fault for not reading what the devs clearly stated about the game. And funnily enough they give the same reason I did for why they did it

Yoshiaki Hirabayashi said:
by stretching it across 4 scenarios the story gets spread a little thin and create a sense of repetition by going through the game multiple times to see everything.

Makes perfect sense.

It should have just been a single Leon and a single Claire with a cohesive story.
Honestly that's the most biggest nitpick I've ever heard. So if they'd just called it Leon and Claire like they had Jill and Chris in REmake it would have magically made the game better instead of calling it A and B? How does a name change substantively impact the actual gameplay you're experiencing? It's pure insanity.
 

Cavsfan767

Alt-Account
Banned
Feb 4, 2019
75
Re2 remake is fantastic me and my buds are having a blast. One thing I wish is for the next RE(not 3make) to have more unique boss battles. 7 now 2make, the fights have been very lackluster.. pretty much shoot the eye till they die, and I just wish they were more plentiful. Idk mabey re4 spoiled me lol.
 

Host Samurai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,167
The RPD and sewers are definitely larger. I think the streets are cut down a little (they're barely in the game on Leon's side) and the lab is about as big as the A lab was. The B scenario lab is where the original campaigns diverged most and you got a completely different area to explore; that's all removed in the remake and you basically just get the A version of the lab. So while the new 1st campaign is fuller, I think overall the combined CA+LB+LA+CB still gave you more content. Or maybe it just feels that way because of how replayable it was.


No, they did not combine all the content into one campaign and that wouldn't even be possible to do. Anything that changed as a direct consequence of the A character's actions is not in the new game, the biggest example being the elevator breaking down and leading into a totally different area of the lab on the B run. I don't really want to go through and list all of it again because you don't seem to be acknowledging these examples, and I have no idea why... Just admit they cut some things and that you don't really mind it?

Things like alternate death scenes and different character meetings in the B scenarios made replays a lot more interesting and can't be merged into one story. You can't cram two different death scenes for a character into the same scenario... although the remake did cram the same death scene in four times. The original gave you enough unique content each time to make all 4 games worth seeing, and a lot of that new content was an alternate take on the same idea. It made things unpredictable since the story and gameplay wouldn't unfold the way you expected it to based on the first run. Even after finishing the game twice, you could still be surprised by what happened in the next two runs.

I never realized how much replayability that system added until finishing the new remake and being so underwhelmed by the 2nd run. They clearly didn't spend as much time on it as they should have, and if they didn't have enough time they shouldn't have put it in. It should have just been a single Leon and a single Claire with a cohesive story.

I agree. Just 2 longer scenarios would have fleshed out the story much better. It's also a shame that in the 2nd run, the character just end up at the police station despite being an hour or two since they were separated. An extended streets area at the beginning of one of the campaigns would have made it less jarring. A few new rooms, bosses and cutscenes to have a more cohesive narrative would have made the game absolutely perfect.

Stuff like only Leon meets Marvin, and Claire only sees him as a zombie for example.
 

Sinder

Banned
Jul 24, 2018
7,576
I saw this on /v/ earlier. Don't know what site or blog it's from, but makes me fucking laugh, sounds like a GAF member.
D3Aihnf.png

LOL the last sentence. Fuck that noise.
 

Blade Wolf

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,512
Taiwan
This game is absolutely amazing, but I agree that it is not a faithful RE2 remake, more like a GREAT RE2 re-imagining, which is okay to me.

The ''B scenario'' is definitely its biggest flaw, it's so bad I wish they just leave it out and put the true ending & true final boss at the end of A scenario instead.

There're also many things I personally don't like about the game, such as Ivy & G4's redesign, giant gator fight's ''gameplay'', lack of multiple enemy type from the original (evolved licker, giant spider, giant moth, crows etc.) and some weird animation bugs. I also really hate how PS4 controller barely vibrates when shooting.

Despite all these complaints, this is still easily my game of the generation.

If I have to choose one thing to ''fix'' I'd definitely choose the A/B scenario, but let's be realistic here they probably won't even fix the shooting vibration on PS4.
 
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FallenGrace

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,036

Taruranto

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,049
No I don't think replaying the same exact 3-4 hours of gameplay 4 times and then the same 1-2 hours 2 times to see a few different cutscenes is a good design choice.

Just admit they artificially and cheaply tried to increase the games short length and that you don't really mind it?
You get everything from the original RE2 by playing the game two times and seeing the two scenarios (A/B). The rest is just a bonus. Do you want to replay the game further? Enjoy this new scenarios in which things happen in a completely different order. It adds replay value but you are not "forced" to go through it.

There is no "artificially and cheaply tried to increase the games short length".
 

Andrew-Ryan

Banned
Dec 4, 2018
645
You get everything from the original RE2 by playing the game two times and seeing the two scenarios (A/B). The rest is just a bonus. Do you want to replay the game further? Enjoy this new scenarios in which things happen in a completely different order. It adds replay value but you are not "forced" to go through it.

There is no "artificially and cheaply tried to increase the games short length".
RE2 one scenario was a ~5.5 hour game. So to increase it's length you need to play another scenario in which around ~3.5 hours is exactly things you've played before to experience 1-2 hours of new content. That's the definition of artificially increasing a short games length, you're reusing 70-75% of the game twice. How is that good game design? That's lazy. But I don't blame them since that was the hardware limitations at the time. Plus the hellish development cycle they went through.

Now you get more or less everything from REmake2 by playing the game once at around ~7-8 hours. You don't need to replay 3-4 hours again to whole experience. It's more seamlessly integrated. The rest is just a bonus. Do you want to replay the game further? Enjoy this new scenarios with a different character in which things happen slightly different. It adds replay value but you are not "forced" to go through it.
 

Taruranto

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,049
RE2 one scenario was a ~5.5 hour game. So to increase it's length you need to play another scenario in which around ~3.5 hours is exactly things you've played before to experience 1-2 hours of new content. That's the definition of artificially increasing a short games length, you're reusing 70-75% of the game twice. How is that good game design? That's lazy. But I don't blame them since that was the hardware limitations at the time. Plus the hellish development cycle they went through.
You explore the same environments but you solve completely different puzzles, take different routes, fight different bosses, meet different characters and overall follow different events. You play Leon and then you play as Claire and see her side of the story and the game even throws you Mr. X because the devs are aware you already familiarized yourself with the environments. It's a brilliant game and it's an evolution of RE1's dual protagonist system (In which the routes were almost identical except some small variations).

If they wanted to make 1 8-hours long game, they would have made 1 8-hours long game. It's not like RE games are particularly long anyway, I can't say I hear many people complain about RE1's length.

Designing 4 different scenarios, with 2 of them that basically didn't even need to exist is anything but lazy, come on. Not to mention how much they interact with each other, so they had to create 2 different sets of events that flowed with each other.
 
Last edited:
Nov 18, 2017
2,932
Andrew-Ryan You've been proven wrong time and again in your assertion that "they crammed everything into one campaign", "they only cut 1 crow scare", "the original game was artifically lengthened". You should book yourself into a chiropracter for the amount of backwards bending you're doing to downplay the achievement of the original game.

This remake is 70-80% a perfect RE2 re-imagining, but we're missing stuff. Good for you if you don't miss it, but it's still missing.
 

FallenGrace

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,036
Maybe you should play the original first. Then play this. Then you can judge whether it matters or not.
I was just joking due to your post, assumed that was obvious, even threw the XD on the end to make it clear. Based on your absolute dead pan response, guess it was too subtle!

If you want deadly serious....I personally couldn't care less. Firstly despite being a huge series fan, it's the game I've played least and main story aside I barely remember any of the small details. Secondly, as long as it's great I don't care about changes as long as the core is mostly similar. It will make it a little fresher than an exact 1:1.
 

ItIsOkBro

Happy New Year!!
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,511
Having not played RE2 (1998) myself, the news that it had original boss fights for each scenario made me disappointed in the remake. However, upon research, the boss fights were

Scenario A:
G Larvae
Birkin 2
Birkin 4

Scenario B:
Birkin 1
Birkin 3
Birkin 5
Tyrant

And the 'G Larvae' seems to have been repurposed into the sewer monsters in the Remake. Like really, this is what you guys are complaining about? I fought all of this in the Remake, just more of them in the same scenario. This lends credence to the idea that they simply put more of B into A.
 
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OP
OP
Dusk Golem

Dusk Golem

Local Horror Enthusiast
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,804
I think how much was "cut" is being exaggerated honestly too though. Like the A/B campaigns in the original were far less different than people are saying, just to tackle a few different points of this and what was quoted on the top of the page:

-Helicopter Crash: It's still in the game, except instead of seeing it in a CG cutscene now you first hear about it in the Hallway with the zombie who's face is torn and slack-jawed and then it crashes entering the East Wing. There's more subtle details about the helicopter crash for you to piece together from also seeing the crashed driver and the stuff before and during it than a cutscene, but it's all still there.

-Alternate Routes: This point is greatly, exaggerated about the original. In the original RE2, the "alternate routes" compose of the following:
*Whoever has B Scenario goes to the back entrance of RPD by going through one different street and the parking lot.
*At the end of RPD, Leon enters the Sewers from the Basement while Claire enters from Iron's Office.
*Whoever you play as second takes an alternate route to get into the Labs, by doing an exciting box pushing puzzle.
*If you scanned handprints in the Lab during the A/B scenarios, you gain access to a new room in the Labs.

All of these additions/changes only last 1-3 rooms each in the original RE2, honestly I'd say the REmake is about on-par with the original, just the specifics are different.

-Alternative Bosses: This is another point that's often exaggerated about the original. So to talk about the original RE2:
*A Campaign's first boss is G-Mutant, B Campaign's first boss is G1
*A scenario faces the Gator, B Scenario does not.
*On the Elevator, A Scenario faces G2, B Scenario faces G3
*B scenario faces Mr. X Phase 2, A Scenario does not.
*B Scenario faces G5, A Scenario does not.

In comparision to the remake:
*G-Mutant is now a normal enemy, so they're missing but I'd argue their new role is both more sensible and an improvement.
*Leon faces the Gator, Claire does not.
*G2 and G3 are completely different bosses rather than the same boss but with a harder variation.
*Claire faces G4, Leon does not
*Leon faces Mr. X Phase 2, Claire does not
*B Scenario faces G5, A Scenario does not.

I also will point out that G3 was not actually a unique boss in the original RE2 as much as it was a tougher G2 in the exact same fight, and now it is a unique fight. In the original RE2 there were four Birkin forms you fought essentially since G3 was just a harder version of the G2 fight (just like how G-Mutant and G1 were in the original), in REmake 2 there's now 5 unique fights with G.

-Interweaving Narrative: In RE2 the original there's two very different versions of scenes suggested per campaign, REmake 2 has a few less variations here that's fair to say, and this is more open to debate than the other topics I feel.

-Also specifically on the Labs, I think you're exaggerating both the A/B difference and how big they were in the original. They're honestly about the same here, in the original RE2 the Labs were composed of 14-15 or so rooms, and it was mainly a straight hallway from Point A to Point B to Point A to Point C to make the area feel larger than it was. Also what you did in the Labs wasn't greatly different in the A/B campaigns, the second character see's a camera room scene and then solves a box pushing puzzle, and they also get access to one more room if you scanned your hand in the A scenario and faces Mr. X and G5, but the actuality of what you're doing is nearly the same.

The only main thing that's missing is Zapping, but we already knew that.

----------

To all of this, the discussion of cut content often also skims over everything that was added. I can understand some people being upset if they care a lot about the original RE2, but this is a lot more of a non-issue than is being framed, and I think there's power to a remake willing to focus more on what it itself is rather than strictly sticking to what the original did. Not all will be happy with that obviously, but I think the direction they chose to go with RE2 here happened to be an excellent one, and I think actually now, some will kill me to hear this, but I honestly think the B scenarios now are more different than the original RE2's. I think how different the original scenarios were happened to be greatly exaggerated outside of cutscene difference, and a few kinda' cool ideas even though uses sparingly like the Zapping System. Other aspects of difference have been shifted to different areas, like greater enemy placement difference and playing on expectation there.
 

CesareNorrez

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,521
So as someone right now playing the original RE2, I can't reiterate enough how different it feels from the Remake. To say that "remake is not that different" in regards to A/B handwaves the actual flow of both scenarios. The fact that X only show ups in B in the original is a big thing. It's a huge surprise for a first play. He's old hat in Second Run (although they did their best to make his appearance significant). And the fact that Claire and Leon interact even just a few more times in the original makes a big difference. When you play the B scenario, you have this anticipation of those moments happening. That REmake 2 cuts the entire intro at the gas station and instead plays a recap and starts with the protag in the courtyard already sets the game off on an awkward foot. We know we are seeing that scene between Clair and Leon right away. For many first time players it could be 1hour+ before that happens in the First Run. It really makes 2nd Run feel half-assed. REmake 2 probably would have been better served just making 2 distinct scenarios instead of this Second Run idea. They had the opportunity to make a consistent story, something the original didn't do and spurred speculation to this day, and they didn't do it.

Little moments are big in narrative art. I don't think downplaying them serves the art at all. They can really make an experience or hurt one. It's the total sum and when you subvert moments, you take the risk of being truly rewarding or undermining the experience. REmake 2 undermines more than it rewards.

I love both the original and the remake, but the differences between them, in terms of story elements, really do go a long way in giving them unique identities, for better and worse.
 

Nerrel

Member
Oct 31, 2017
406
Like really, this is what you guys are complaining about? I fought all of this in the Remake, just more of them in the same scenario. This lends credence to the idea that they simply put more of B into A.
It's not a major complaint, more of a disappointment that they didn't do as much as they could have with the 2nd scenario. I think you're missing the point that they couldn't put a lot of B stuff in the A game because that B content often depended on the A game to work. The moment the tram breaks down and forces you into an unknown area is pretty anxiety inducing when you expect it to work just like in the A game.

I think how much was "cut" is being exaggerated honestly too though. Like the A/B campaigns in the original were far less different than people are saying

...

-Alternate Routes: This point is greatly, exaggerated about the original. In the original RE2, the "alternate routes" compose of the following:
*Whoever has B Scenario goes to the back entrance of RPD by going through one different street and the parking lot.
*At the end of RPD, Leon enters the Sewers from the Basement while Claire enters from Iron's Office.
*Whoever you play as second takes an alternate route to get into the Labs, by doing an exciting box pushing puzzle.
*If you scanned handprints in the Lab during the A/B scenarios, you gain access to a new room in the Labs.

...

-Also specifically on the Labs, I think you're exaggerating both the A/B difference and how big they were in the original. They're honestly about the same here, in the original RE2 the Labs were composed of 14-15 or so rooms, and it was mainly a straight hallway from Point A to Point B to Point A to Point C to make the area feel larger than it was. Also what you did in the Labs wasn't greatly different in the A/B campaigns, the second character see's a camera room scene and then solves a box pushing puzzle, and they also get access to one more room if you scanned your hand in the A scenario and faces Mr. X and G5, but the actuality of what you're doing is nearly the same.

The only main thing that's missing is Zapping, but we already knew that.

Sorry, but I think you're clearly wrong. The B lab was not just a "box pushing puzzle" or an alternate route in, you had a pretty substantial amount of extra exploring to do to find the elevator switch, return to the A lab with the new goal of finding the power room key, then returning to the power area to get the master elevator key to go on to the train area, kill off Mr. X, restore power and open the gate. You got to see entirely new areas with a very different feel than the A lab and you did very different things. Even setting aside the alternate cutscenes (which were wildly different), that's already a huge difference from the A scenario. Leon A's lab and Leon B's lab are worlds apart in terms of how expanded the B scenario is and how different Leon's goals are (you don't rescue Sherry or even really see her on the A run).

There are also other things like the shutters fixed in A failing and flooding the hall with zombies in B, or the BOW gas in the lab leading to stronger enemies in B in addition to the stuff like the guest room and machine gun that have already been mentioned.

The point isn't that "it's bad that these specific things aren't in the remake," the point is that the remake didn't offer a similar level of new, interesting content or surprises to play with your expectations on the 2nd run. It could have been entirely different stuff than the original B game, as long as they gave you something to set the 2nd scenario apart. It's mostly just a remixed RPD, a new .45 pistol to use, and as far as I can remember the exact same sewers and lab aside from two puzzle codes being changed. The train segment is so abridged that you're basically just getting one new room with a boss fight, it's so rushed and anti-climactic compared to the original.

They said since the E3 announcement that A/B was not going to be anything like the original and that they were two separate campaigns
https://www.relyonhorror.com/in-dep...hi-and-tsuyoshi-kanda-explain-how-they-do-it/

They didn't rush anything or run out of time. That was the design choice from the start. They told everyone about it when they basically properly revealed the game. It's your own fault for not reading what the devs clearly stated about the game. And funnily enough they give the same reason I did for why they did it

They were still clearly trying for the "see the other side of the story" thing with the 2nd scenario. It was just so weakly done that it rendered itself pointless pretty early in. What was the design choice behind framing the 2nd run as being the same story by having your 2nd run character being the one waiting at the RPD gate and activating the train... only to end up seeing Annette get killed by Birkin the exact same way twice with each character, for example? Did they want the scenarios to work together as one story or not? The 2nd run was obviously a half hearted attempt to wedge a little bit of the old A/B system in without really committing to it, which is why it kind of sucks.


Not all will be happy with that obviously, but I think the direction they chose to go with RE2 here happened to be an excellent one, and I think actually now, some will kill me to hear this, but I honestly think the B scenarios now are more different than the original RE2's.

I give up. The game is flawless, Capcom did everything as perfectly as possible and the game is better than the original in every conceivable way.
 

Encephalon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,856
Japan
I have to agree that the "zapping system" and A/B differences are extremely limited in the original game, and that both the remake and the original game notably have you solving the same puzzles, etc etc. Unlocking the secret room through the handprint puzzle is also a waste of time with little reward (the weapon you're given is negated by the fact that the game doesn't require you to use much ammo on boss fights, the lab is too small, and the room is full of lickers anyways). Playing the game these days, I never encounter the moth. The original game perhaps gives the player a bit more freedom in how they want to approach the R.P.D. in the B scenario, but it's not substantial.

However, I think that the execution of the B scenario, as limited as it was, was much better in the original game. Most importantly, it was executed as the "other" side of the same adventure, whereas the remake's scenes play out as if Capcom never intended them be two sides of the same story, playing concurrently (hence Annette). It would have also been nice to see more B side original content, such as a different entrance to the lab like the original. It's not a lot, but it can feel like a lot in a 3 hour game. Of course, the game does expand upon the R.P.D. and is not by any means "lacking" in content compared to the original. It's just questionable as to why there's a 2nd run at all.



RE2 one scenario was a ~5.5 hour game. So to increase it's length you need to play another scenario in which around ~3.5 hours is exactly things you've played before to experience 1-2 hours of new content. That's the definition of artificially increasing a short games length, you're reusing 70-75% of the game twice. How is that good game design? That's lazy. But I don't blame them since that was the hardware limitations at the time. Plus the hellish development cycle they went through.

Now you get more or less everything from REmake2 by playing the game once at around ~7-8 hours. You don't need to replay 3-4 hours again to whole experience. It's more seamlessly integrated. The rest is just a bonus. Do you want to replay the game further? Enjoy this new scenarios with a different character in which things happen slightly different. It adds replay value but you are not "forced" to go through it.

Resident Evil 2 is a game that was supposed to come out in 1997, but was scrapped after making significant progress in its development. The result was a better game than 1.5 would have been, but getting the game out in 1998 seems to have sacrificed the factory and the greater portion of the lab areas. "Lazy" doesn't really quite apply to what they were able to pull off in such a short amount of time. "Hardware" isn't really the issue.
 
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Jinroh

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,189
Lausanne, Switzerland
Saying things like second run is more different than the B scenarios of the original game is a total non-sense. All they had to do is commit to a specific scenario for a both Leon and Claire, and thus finally establish a proper canon.

Different boss fights, different puzzles, more interactions between characters and something more clever than just clover/heart key to visit different parts of the game. It's really not asking for the moon. I really love this remake in terms of gameplay and from a technical standpoint, but in terms of story and replay value I still prefer the original.

Unlike the remake of the first game, I feel torn in terms of what I'd want to replay. This game is far from being the definitive version of RE2. Had they fixed these issues, it would most certainly be. Again, why not giving Leon/Claire the goddamn radio? All they had to do is have a couple more lines of dialogues between them during the game, and it would have already made it more coherent and much better. As stated previously be someone else the aggregation of small things like that can have such a positive impact on the game.
 

Encephalon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,856
Japan
Sorry, but I think you're clearly wrong. The B lab was not just a "box pushing puzzle" or an alternate route in, you had a pretty substantial amount of extra exploring to do to find the elevator switch, return to the A lab with the new goal of finding the power room key, then returning to the power area to get the master elevator key to go on to the train area, kill off Mr. X, restore power and open the gate. You got to see entirely new areas with a very different feel than the A lab and you did very different things. Even setting aside the alternate cutscenes (which were wildly different), that's already a huge difference from the A scenario. Leon A's lab and Leon B's lab are worlds apart in terms of how expanded the B scenario is and how different Leon's goals are (you don't rescue Sherry or even really see her on the A run).

You're talking about 4 extra rooms, 2 of which is more or less identical to the other, amounting to maybe 4 minutes of game time. There is no substantial exploration to be had of the lab in RE2 whatsoever. It's actually one of the things I was hoping they would expand upon in the remake.

The turn table* stops, and you exit to the elevator hallway. Travel down one side, and enter the boiler room. Take the lift down to the smelting room, which is just the lower level of the power room. Turn on the power, and return to the elevator. Later on, you visit the power room to find Ada. It's true that you get to see a different area, but it's essentially two rooms, with a hallway to connect you to the elevator and the turn table. The reason why this exists in the B scenario is probably because Capcom wanted to repurpose any 1.5 content they could, despite ultimately cutting down the lab. It's a clever means of repurposing the elevator hallway and finding an area for the player to explore the brief boiler room area.

*Why is the train car on the giant elevator called a "turn table?" It doesn't turn.
 
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Eldainorn

Member
Oct 29, 2017
105
Slovenia, Europe
Phew I just completed Leon campaign. Now to go for Claire. I am a little confused here. I presume that Leon campaign that I finished is "Leon A". Should I pick Claire under New Game (A?) or New Game Plus (B?). I don't want to screw anything up. Or does it even matter which one I pick for Claire?
 

Master Chuuster

GamingBolt.com
Verified
Dec 14, 2017
2,650
Phew I just completed Leon campaign. Now to go for Claire. I am a little confused here. I presume that Leon campaign that I finished is "Leon A". Should I pick Claire under New Game (A?) or New Game Plus (B?). I don't want to screw anything up. Or does it even matter which one I pick for Claire?
Do "New Game [2nd Run]" for Claire. That's the B scenario.
 

CenturionNami

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,230


It's trash btw. He calls people who think it's better then 7 "cunts" due to Nostalgia and say's Ethan is a much better character then Leon and Claire.
 

SofNascimento

cursed
Member
Oct 28, 2017
21,316
São Paulo - Brazil


It's trash btw. He calls people who think it's better then 7 "cunts" due to Nostalgia and say's Ethan is a much better character then Leon and Claire.


If you watched one of his reviews you watched them all basically. But one thing that he mentions which I also thought is how they hype Raccoon City in the intro and then the game takes place in this single building. It does feel weird.
 

AuthenticM

Son Altesse Sérénissime
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,069
I think how much was "cut" is being exaggerated honestly too though. Like the A/B campaigns in the original were far less different than people are saying, just to tackle a few different points of this and what was quoted on the top of the page:

-Helicopter Crash: It's still in the game, except instead of seeing it in a CG cutscene now you first hear about it in the Hallway with the zombie who's face is torn and slack-jawed and then it crashes entering the East Wing. There's more subtle details about the helicopter crash for you to piece together from also seeing the crashed driver and the stuff before and during it than a cutscene, but it's all still there.

-Alternate Routes: This point is greatly, exaggerated about the original. In the original RE2, the "alternate routes" compose of the following:
*Whoever has B Scenario goes to the back entrance of RPD by going through one different street and the parking lot.
*At the end of RPD, Leon enters the Sewers from the Basement while Claire enters from Iron's Office.
*Whoever you play as second takes an alternate route to get into the Labs, by doing an exciting box pushing puzzle.
*If you scanned handprints in the Lab during the A/B scenarios, you gain access to a new room in the Labs.

All of these additions/changes only last 1-3 rooms each in the original RE2, honestly I'd say the REmake is about on-par with the original, just the specifics are different.

-Alternative Bosses: This is another point that's often exaggerated about the original. So to talk about the original RE2:
*A Campaign's first boss is G-Mutant, B Campaign's first boss is G1
*A scenario faces the Gator, B Scenario does not.
*On the Elevator, A Scenario faces G2, B Scenario faces G3
*B scenario faces Mr. X Phase 2, A Scenario does not.
*B Scenario faces G5, A Scenario does not.

In comparision to the remake:
*G-Mutant is now a normal enemy, so they're missing but I'd argue their new role is both more sensible and an improvement.
*Leon faces the Gator, Claire does not.
*G2 and G3 are completely different bosses rather than the same boss but with a harder variation.
*Claire faces G4, Leon does not
*Leon faces Mr. X Phase 2, Claire does not
*B Scenario faces G5, A Scenario does not.

I also will point out that G3 was not actually a unique boss in the original RE2 as much as it was a tougher G2 in the exact same fight, and now it is a unique fight. In the original RE2 there were four Birkin forms you fought essentially since G3 was just a harder version of the G2 fight (just like how G-Mutant and G1 were in the original), in REmake 2 there's now 5 unique fights with G.

-Interweaving Narrative: In RE2 the original there's two very different versions of scenes suggested per campaign, REmake 2 has a few less variations here that's fair to say, and this is more open to debate than the other topics I feel.

-Also specifically on the Labs, I think you're exaggerating both the A/B difference and how big they were in the original. They're honestly about the same here, in the original RE2 the Labs were composed of 14-15 or so rooms, and it was mainly a straight hallway from Point A to Point B to Point A to Point C to make the area feel larger than it was. Also what you did in the Labs wasn't greatly different in the A/B campaigns, the second character see's a camera room scene and then solves a box pushing puzzle, and they also get access to one more room if you scanned your hand in the A scenario and faces Mr. X and G5, but the actuality of what you're doing is nearly the same.

The only main thing that's missing is Zapping, but we already knew that.

----------

To all of this, the discussion of cut content often also skims over everything that was added. I can understand some people being upset if they care a lot about the original RE2, but this is a lot more of a non-issue than is being framed, and I think there's power to a remake willing to focus more on what it itself is rather than strictly sticking to what the original did. Not all will be happy with that obviously, but I think the direction they chose to go with RE2 here happened to be an excellent one, and I think actually now, some will kill me to hear this, but I honestly think the B scenarios now are more different than the original RE2's. I think how different the original scenarios were happened to be greatly exaggerated outside of cutscene difference, and a few kinda' cool ideas even though uses sparingly like the Zapping System. Other aspects of difference have been shifted to different areas, like greater enemy placement difference and playing on expectation there.

This is a good post.
 

CenturionNami

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,230


The piece of shit/serial harraser Fungo is at it again. This time he insults Angry Joe