• Light/Dark
  • Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

Retro AV Thread |OT| RGB, CRTs, Upscalers, and More

Deleted member 7130

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,685
davidwhangchoi said:
i wish it could do 240p, then i could get rid of my pspgo dock
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It would be nice if it could be forced via hacking but seeing as the PS3 uses an Nvidia GPU like the OG Xbox, I don't think that'll happen for whatever reason.

NEE HEE HEE said:
Is there any benefit to routing audio (or using audio) inside the ossc? Doesn't seem like a very good setup. In my head I am thinking of just routing the audio from my bandridge box to my receiver. All I can think of is the use of audio via HDMI, but that's it right? Or are there audio enhancement tools within the ossc?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Best to just get the audio into a reciever in the most direct route possible, imo. The OSSC route is mostly there just to simplify cabling and satisfying people who just want one accessible plug into their HDTV.
 
NEE HEE HEE

NEE HEE HEE

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
844
Televator said:
It would be nice if it could be forced via hacking but seeing as the PS3 uses an Nvidia GPU like the OG Xbox, I don't think that'll happen for whatever reason.


Best to just get the audio into a reciever in the most direct route possible, imo. The OSSC route is mostly there just to simplify cabling and satisfying people who just want one accessible plug into their HDTV.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Cool, that's what I wanted to hear. That's the easiest option for me as well. The OSSC arrived today so I'm absolutely excited to give it a shot after work today.
 
dadjumper

dadjumper

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,932
New Zealand
NEE HEE HEE said:
Is there any benefit to routing audio (or using audio) inside the ossc? Doesn't seem like a very good setup. In my head I am thinking of just routing the audio from my bandridge box to my receiver. All I can think of is the use of audio via HDMI, but that's it right? Or are there audio enhancement tools within the ossc?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah the benefit is HDMI. I only have one console I use with my OSSC atm and therefore don't need a scart switch, so it's the best way to do audio for me.
 
NEE HEE HEE

NEE HEE HEE

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
844
I just got finished testing out my gamecube, wii and SNES with the OSSC (more consoles to try out tomorrow). All I can say is I'm very impressed with the 5x line quality. My budget 4K Sylvannia 55" seems to not complain about any LineX multiplier so I guess I lucked out. With passthrough on 480i, 480p or 240p I get no signal but that doesn't matter to me.

240p is definitely this device's forte from what I've seen, but 480p honestly doesn't look that bad. Really satisfied with this thing.

I played Mega Man X2 up to black zero fight and experienced zero issues which makes me glad, as I've heard OSSC's worst partner is the SNES (though 5x does cut off the screen so I'm not sure what to do about that).

One weird thing though, when using Line5x on the Gameboy Player (with GBI-UL). I thought using Line5x would have filled the screen up but it didn't. Regardless though, it increases the clarity very much to make it look extremely clean. Maybe I could try my TV's native zoom function to compensate (didn't think of that).

So far, I'm extremely impressed and satisfied. I'll be testing Silent Hill, Dino Crisis and Chrono Cross tomorrow evening to see how the 240p -> 480i transition is. If it's fast, this thing will have automatically dethroned the framemeister for me.
 
dadjumper

dadjumper

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,932
New Zealand
NEE HEE HEE said:
. My budget 4K Sylvannia 55" seems to not complain about any LineX multiplier so I guess I lucked out.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You certainly did! My main TV only does 2x and only at 4:3 so I had to buy a cheap 1200p PC monitor to fully utilize the thing, and even then I still have jitter issues with the SNES.

NEE HEE HEE said:
(though 5x does cut off the screen so I'm not sure what to do about that).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

There's a setting under output settings to set the resolution of 5x. By default it's set to 1920x1080, which cuts off the top and bottom of the screen. Set it to either 1920x1200 or 1600x1200 and you should be good!
 
NEE HEE HEE

NEE HEE HEE

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
844
dadjumper said:
You certainly did! My main TV only does 2x and only at 4:3 so I had to buy a cheap 1200p PC monitor to fully utilize the thing, and even then I still have jitter issues with the SNES.



There's a setting under output settings to set the resolution of 5x. By default it's set to 1920x1080, which cuts off the top and bottom of the screen. Set it to either 1920x1200 or 1600x1200 and you should be good!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Thanks for the tip. Setting to 1920x1200 gives me much better results.
 
OP
OP
ShinJohnpv

ShinJohnpv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
*edit* nevermind already answered that is what i get from having an old page open and not realizing it was.
 
NEE HEE HEE

NEE HEE HEE

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
844
I only had time to test the Famicom and N64.

The Famicom took way too long to perfect but I got it. Setting the vertical mask to 6 removes the wavy pixels on the top.

Setting sync LPF to 33MHz and disabling "Allow TVP HPLL2x" under sampling opt allowed me to keep a stable Line5x signal that does not drop and it looks incredible.

My RGBN64 isn't perfect, but it still manages to look good with scanlines on a 4KTV. With VI-Deblur off, it looks better (though it makes some other games look blurry when it's on like 007).

Turning off Anti-Aliasing gives mixed results. This is definitely more beneficial on a PVM rather than on an HDTV. The dithering becomes extremely evident for some games (Such as Crystal Shards). But luckily the scanlines can mask the dithering, but it all comes down to a matter of preference at the end of the day. I prefer it off with scanlines because I hate the smudge/vaseline filter.

All in all, I was impressed that I was able to play N64 games on my 4K TV while it not looking like absolute dog shit. The OSSC claims yet another victory for the day.
 
OP
OP
ShinJohnpv

ShinJohnpv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
The N64 is one system, for me, that I think scanlines improves the look on modern tvs. I'll play all my 8 bit, and 16 bit games with out scanlines. There's something about the N64 though, with scanlines it just looks better for me.
 

Deleted member 21709

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
23,310
Televator said:
If you're looking to play slow games, BC PS3 or PS2 classics is a nice avenue if you have a PS3 around. The A01 PS3 has very good deinterlacing if you can keep one alive and all PS3s output RGB and digital HDMI natively. No lossy conversions necessary.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Are you saying that PS3's tend to die? Because I always have the feeling mine is on its last legs..
 
NEE HEE HEE

NEE HEE HEE

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
844
The 240p -> 480i switch on OSSC isn't as fast as I hoped it would be. It's about 2-3 seconds.

Still better than the 9-10 seconds of the framemeister though.
 
synic

synic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
371
NJ
There's a chance I might be getting a 24" WEGA this weekend. I know these are relatively heavy (70ish pounds), but what kind of unobtrusive cart/stand is good for these?
 
OP
OP
ShinJohnpv

ShinJohnpv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
If you don't want to make a big investment and let your tv do the deinterlacing/upscaling then just go with component cables. Ideally sony first party ones, ps3 component cables will work on it.
 
Molto

Molto

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,022
Castlemania games still has stock for all their products except Genesis cables.
 
Last edited:
Phenomenal Flea

Phenomenal Flea

Member
Oct 27, 2017
106
I have two Bandridge SCART switches that I'd like to daisychain, and I'm looking for a nice, short, shielded SCART cable that would do the job, but the only ones I can find are exorbitantly priced. Anybody able to point me in the right direction for something that isn't going to cost a fortune (and ships internationally)?
 
Arulan

Arulan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,571
Does anyone have experience using a HDMI audio extractor (though often also a HDMI switch) with the OSSC and SuperNt?
 
jsnepo

jsnepo

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,648
Just tried connecting my PS2 to my HDTV using component cables. 480i on my W800C TV flickers just like what it does in my Sony Wega CRT. The problem is it's just too blurry. How sharp can the Framemeister or OSSC make 480i look?
 
Fuzzy

Fuzzy

Completely non-threatening
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,127
Toronto
Yeah I saw them when Voultar retweeted them a few days ago. They'll also be offering just the connectors later for people that want to make their own version.
 
Fuzzy

Fuzzy

Completely non-threatening
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,127
Toronto
SG-17 said:
I wonder if I could get a connector and modify my EON with it so I can use the analog audio...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That sounds like a lot of work. Probably easier to sell the EON and buying this. Probably a better idea also since this will allow you to update the fw. <$90 sounds like a great price.

Their Genesis 1 Scart cable bothers me because the stereo plug doesn't have a 90 degree adapter. How do people still overlook something so simple?
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
ShinJohnpv

ShinJohnpv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
jsnepo said:
Just tried connecting my PS2 to my HDTV using component cables. 480i on my W800C TV flickers just like what it does in my Sony Wega CRT. The problem is it's just too blurry. How sharp can the Framemeister or OSSC make 480i look?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Both can keep it sharp, but the OSSC is going to have similar flicker to what your tv has. Since it's way of handling interlaced stuff is with Bob deinterlacing, the framemeister is a better deinterlacer and handles 480i better.
 
jsnepo

jsnepo

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,648
ShinJohnpv said:
Both can keep it sharp, but the OSSC is going to have similar flicker to what your tv has. Since it's way of handling interlaced stuff is with Bob deinterlacing, the framemeister is a better deinterlacer and handles 480i better.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

To what resolution do both Framemeister and OSSC upscale 480i to? I have a 1080p TV.
 

Deleted member 7130

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,685
jsnepo said:
Oh. Thanks. It's the Framemeister for me then. 480p on my HDTV isn't as blurry as 480i but isn't as sharp as what I want it to look.

How about this new thing, the Retrotink?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
An even more spartan (but still good for the budget) device than the OSSC. Line doubler only across the board.
Laevateinn said:
OSSC has 4x scaling for 480i right?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Not according to the wiki.

Edit: Yes it can. I've never tried it though, since I also have an FM.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 7130

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,685
I found some posts online indicating that the OSSC can now line quadruple 480i. I've edited my posts.
 
OP
OP
ShinJohnpv

ShinJohnpv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
Even with 4x scaling you're going to still have to deal with bob deinterlacing on the OSSC, just bare that in mind.
 

Deleted member 135

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,682
jsnepo said:
Oh. Thanks. It's the Framemeister for me then. 480p on my HDTV isn't as blurry as 480i but isn't as sharp as what I want it to look.

How about this new thing, the Retrotink?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Televator said:
An even more spartan (but still good for the budget) device than the OSSC. Line doubler only across the board.

Not according to the wiki.

Edit: Yes it can. I've never tried it though, since I also have an FM.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The RetroTink 2X takes composite, component, and S-Video signal and it can be set to pass through so it can be used as a transcoder in conjunction with the OSSC.

Also the Framemeister is being discontinued, whether that means the product is done or there is a new version coming we don't know yet.
 

Deleted member 7130

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,685
SG-17 said:
The RetroTink 2X takes composite, component, and S-Video signal and it can be set to pass through so it can be used as a transcoder in conjunction with the OSSC.

Also the Framemeister is being discontinued, whether that means the product is done or there is a new version coming we don't know yet.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yes, I'm aware, but in the context of the convo of raw image processing it is more pared down in the kind of options it provides there. That's not to put it down or anything. It appears to be a tightly targeted product that'll get the job done without any fancy bells and whistles.
 

donhonk

Member
Oct 30, 2017
480
Is there much of a reason for me to keep my Framemeister when I could get an OSSC soon? I have the same TV as shown in the 4k video from my life in gaming, and am planning on getting the same AV receiver as him
 

Deleted member 7130

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,685
donhonk said:
Is there much of a reason for me to keep my Framemeister when I could get an OSSC soon? I have the same TV as shown in the 4k video from my life in gaming, and am planning on getting the same AV receiver as him
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
For PS2 480i

Which brings me to explaining why the FM is a better device for 480i. A complete 480i frame is made of 2 fields that are temporaly and physically staggered. Bob deinterlacing in the OSSC is this: it takes one field at a time and repeats the same contents of each line either twice or four times to the target resolutions of 480p or 960p. While the end result is frames that look "filled" they actually lack a bit of unique detail that would be present in a process that combines the original 2 fields for a full frame. Add to that, that because the original fields were physically stagered between odd and even lines, the new frames don't line up and when they are displayed in sequences they make the image appear to shift slightly - that's the bobbing in "bob deinterlacing." My understanding is that there's some slight trickery to minimize this, however I don't think it's enough to overcome drastic differences in temporal information in each field (a ball moving at high speed would be in more drastically different positions in every field. Or an entire camera panning throughout a scene.)

So enter: motion adaptive deinterlacing that is utilized by the Framemeister. This process combines both fields into one frame and also atempts to address edges of objects that are misaligned in the original fileds due to them being in motion in order to create a more detailed and stable looking single frame. So why does the FM have this but not the OSSC? Because memory... and also a third party chip that is licensed to Micomsoft that can actually execute what are basically processes that were originally intended for film. These things would have added to the cost of the OSSC, and it was more focused on having virtually no latency - which a discrete frame buffer and somewhat slightly lagged processor are counterproductive for.
 
Last edited:

donhonk

Member
Oct 30, 2017
480
Televator said:
For PS2 480i

Which brings me to explaining why the FM is a better device for 480i. A complete 480i frame is made of 2 fields that are tomporaly and physically staggered. Bob deinterlacing in the OSSC is this: it takes one field at a time and repeats the same contents of each line either twice or four times to the target resolutions of 480p or 960p. While the end result is frames that look "filled" they actually lack a bit of unique detail that would be present in a process that combines the original 2 fields for a full frame. Add to that, that because the original fields were physically stagered between odd and even lines, the new frames don't line up and when they are displayed in sequences they make the image appear to shift slightly - that's the bobbing in "bob deinterlacing." My understanding is that there's some slight trickery to minimize this, however I don't think it's enough to overcome drastic differences in temporal information in each field (a ball moving at high speed would be in more drastically different positions in every field. Or an entire camera panning throughout a scene.)

So enter: motion adaptive deinterlacing that is utilized by the Framemeister. This process combines both fields into one frame and also atempts to address edges of objects that are misaligned in the original fileds due to them being in motion in order to create a more detailed and stable looking single frame. So why does the FM have this but not the OSSC? Because memory... and also a third party chip that is licensed to Micomsoft that can actually execute what are basically processes that were originally intended for film. These things would have added to the cost of the OSSC, and it was more focused on having virtually no latency - which a discrete frame buffer and somewhat slightly lagged processor are counterproductive for.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Well honestly you sold me on keeping mine with such a verbose explanation lmao, thanks dude!
 

Deleted member 135

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,682
Televator said:
Yes, I'm aware, but in the context of the convo of raw image processing it is more pared down in the kind of options it provides there. That's not to put it down or anything. It appears to be a tightly targeted product that'll get the job done without any fancy bells and whistles.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Oh I know, I was just adding an extra feature to the conversation as to why you might want both a RetroTink and an OSSC.
 
jsnepo

jsnepo

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,648
Televator said:
For PS2 480i

Which brings me to explaining why the FM is a better device for 480i. A complete 480i frame is made of 2 fields that are temporaly and physically staggered. Bob deinterlacing in the OSSC is this: it takes one field at a time and repeats the same contents of each line either twice or four times to the target resolutions of 480p or 960p. While the end result is frames that look "filled" they actually lack a bit of unique detail that would be present in a process that combines the original 2 fields for a full frame. Add to that, that because the original fields were physically stagered between odd and even lines, the new frames don't line up and when they are displayed in sequences they make the image appear to shift slightly - that's the bobbing in "bob deinterlacing." My understanding is that there's some slight trickery to minimize this, however I don't think it's enough to overcome drastic differences in temporal information in each field (a ball moving at high speed would be in more drastically different positions in every field. Or an entire camera panning throughout a scene.)

So enter: motion adaptive deinterlacing that is utilized by the Framemeister. This process combines both fields into one frame and also atempts to address edges of objects that are misaligned in the original fileds due to them being in motion in order to create a more detailed and stable looking single frame. So why does the FM have this but not the OSSC? Because memory... and also a third party chip that is licensed to Micomsoft that can actually execute what are basically processes that were originally intended for film. These things would have added to the cost of the OSSC, and it was more focused on having virtually no latency - which a discrete frame buffer and somewhat slightly lagged processor are counterproductive for.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I love reading your post. That settles things for me to get a Framemeister instead of OSSC. An additional one to two frames of lag shouldn't be that bad because I don't play rhythm and fighting games that much anyway. Any other issues that I should be aware of other than the lag, color, and 480p?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.