Thanks. Seems like the move will be to go with the Retrotink2x at first, and eventually add the OSSC into my "stack," if you will. Looks like VideoGamePerfection isn't shipping outside of the EU quite yet anyway, and I'm in the States.
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Retro AV Thread |OT| RGB, CRTs, Upscalers, and More
- Thread starter ShinJohnpv
- Start date
Thanks. Seems like the move will be to go with the Retrotink2x at first, and eventually add the OSSC into my "stack," if you will. Looks like VideoGamePerfection isn't shipping outside of the EU quite yet anyway, and I'm in the States.
Is there truly no quality component to HDMI converters? I'm not interested in a RetroTINK, I just need a simple converter. Why are they all cheap garbage that degrades the signal?
I have a Live Gamer Portable capture card that accepts component and outputs HDMI, I wonder if that preserves the quality?
I have a Live Gamer Portable capture card that accepts component and outputs HDMI, I wonder if that preserves the quality?
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I think all these cheap component (or any type of signal) to HDMI are crappy because they are designed for passive use, that is, just taking 480i or 480p from like a VCR or some cable or satelite box, without addresing the needs for gaming, which are complex.
It's super frustrating. I wish there was some sort of affordable component to s-video, and that does not exist. Eventually I'll have to go for a RetroTINK, so I can record videos with an Elgato HD.
It's super frustrating. I wish there was some sort of affordable component to s-video, and that does not exist. Eventually I'll have to go for a RetroTINK, so I can record videos with an Elgato HD.
I love the RetroTINK. But I wish there was a higher-end, few-frills device exactly like it that...
1) output straight to 4k (basically a 9x line nonupler for 240p, but would still need to handle 480i)
2) added a scanline option.
I might not even need my Framemeister or OSSC then. In fact, it would be an improvement on them, since their best scanline output is 720p, which my TV doesn't always upscale nicely (it only does nearest neighbor for 1080p>4k, not 720p>4k).
1) output straight to 4k (basically a 9x line nonupler for 240p, but would still need to handle 480i)
2) added a scanline option.
I might not even need my Framemeister or OSSC then. In fact, it would be an improvement on them, since their best scanline output is 720p, which my TV doesn't always upscale nicely (it only does nearest neighbor for 1080p>4k, not 720p>4k).
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Does anyone here have any thoughts on Pound's Xbox HDMI cable? The cables they made for other consoles seem like crud, but opinions on their Xbox one seem much more positive. That the cable acts as a simple component to HDMI converter without any added fuss. The only consistent issue I've come across in various videos is that the colors aren't represented perfectly. The Pound cable comes across more washed out and with a green tint when compared to component. Tho an annoyance, that sounds like it can be rectified by adjusting your displays settings. What can't be rectified however is that I hear the Pound cable doesn't allow for any of the surround sound formats that Xbox and a large amount of its library supports.
Received my Retrotink2x in the mail today and immediately hooked up my N64 with S-Video. Everything was great but now I'm noticing screen tearing at the top of the screen.
It happens with my Saturn as well via the HD Retrovision component cables. I'm connecting to a TCL 55R615. Any ideas what's causing the tearing? The TV is set to game mode and sees the incoming connection as 480p 60hz. Both systems are US region by the way.
The Retrotink2x is set to 2x mode and adjusted for the correct input (I know this because the wrong inputs are grayscale).
Any help or ideas are appreciated. Thanks.
It happens with my Saturn as well via the HD Retrovision component cables. I'm connecting to a TCL 55R615. Any ideas what's causing the tearing? The TV is set to game mode and sees the incoming connection as 480p 60hz. Both systems are US region by the way.
The Retrotink2x is set to 2x mode and adjusted for the correct input (I know this because the wrong inputs are grayscale).
Any help or ideas are appreciated. Thanks.
I keep seeing the RetroTINK 2x recommended for converting component to HDMI. But it appears the RetroTINK 2x tops out at 480i input. That isn't an option then, as the main console I want to connect is an original Xbox in which the majority of games are 480p, with many even in 720p. An OSSC and Framemeister are too expensive, and unfortunately the Pound cable alters the colors and also doesn't allow for optical audio so the surround sound support of the majority of Xbox games are left on the table.
I really don't know what to do, my TV nor AV receiver accepts component.
I really don't know what to do, my TV nor AV receiver accepts component.
"Good", "dirt cheap", and "fully featured" rarely (if ever) intersect. Either bite the bullet or compromise somewhere else, is the only thing I can say.
I shouldn't have to. All I want is an analog component signal converted to a digital HDMI signal without it degrading the signal. I don't want any fancy upscaling or any of that.
Converting analog to digital formats is quite a bit harder than the other way around, unfortunately, and doubly so if you are giving it a lot of data to have to work with.
Once you get to a certain price range converters (regardless of scaling) tend to degrade picture quality and/or don't include other features. That's just how things go. That's the very nature of how they cut costs from the get go.
Features and quality cost more money.
I don't mind spending more for a quality converter. I'm not saying I have to spend $15-$30. But over $100 just for the ability to convert a signal without degradation, I'm sorry that's too much. The RetroTINK sadly doesn't offer 480p inputs. The OSSC and Framemeister offer significantly more features and therefore cost more, but those features are more than I'm looking for. I just want a simple converter, I trust my LG B7 to handle the rest.
Sorry to double post, but I think I may have found something. It's a Monoprice component to HDMi converter and it also takes optical. Monoprice usually makes quality products, any thoughts?
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=5971
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=5971
The options that are available and that are suitable for gaming are essentially limited to the enthusiast sector, which both raises the floor of what is 'acceptable' and also puts a cap on how many can be expected to sell. The Retrotink is actually a really new option to provide anything 'cheap'. Your best bet may just be waiting for an updated Retrotink that accepts higher quality input.
Quality video conversion is not cheap, and it never has been. I would imagine the lowest cost for a simple device like what you describe would be $60-80, if someone were to make it.
All things considered, the RetroTink is quite cheap for what it offers, and I doubt the creator is seeing a whole lot of profit for what it is.
It might be frustrating, but yeah, that's just how electronics generally are priced.
not my listing, but is $90 obo too much?
https://www.retrogameboards.com/t/fs-open-source-scan-converter-v-1/1445
That is definitely more reasonable! However it's the DVI unit and he supplies a DVI to HDMI adapter, will that effect quality?
DVI and HDMI are the same electronically, they are 100% compatible.
The *only* issues may be if the DVI isn't carrying audio, but even that can be rectified without quality loss. Which I believe would just be up to if they bought a really dumb DVI-HDMI adapter.
The OG OSSC required a daughtercard to add audio support. You could buy it with the card installed, or buy and install it after the fact. I believe it was soldered on.
I bought mine with it installed already (and yes, used a basic DVI to HDMI adapter with zero issues).
I just purchased an Xbox High Definition AV Pack because my generic component cables are garbage and if I'm gonna wind up with an OSSC needless to say I want quality. However the eBay purchase I made (I got it for $29, which from other listings seems like a steal) only comes with the box, not the official component cables too so I am in need of quality component cables. Any suggestions? These are highly rated on Amazon but unsure if they're actually high quality or not: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...9ea-768a917d5900&pf_rd_r=WEBCV1M47GXW4GRZA16B
Also, does the OSSC top out at 480p for the input? I ask cause the Xbox supports a chunk of games at 720p, does the OSSC have anyway to pass this signal?
Also, does the OSSC top out at 480p for the input? I ask cause the Xbox supports a chunk of games at 720p, does the OSSC have anyway to pass this signal?
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OP
OP
The problem is that Digital is a very specific standard. It has very specific narrow parameters that the video signal must fall in to be acceptable. Analog was a lot more willy nilly, if they tried something and it worked, they went with it. Hell 240p isn't even technically a standard, it was basically a trick that everyone used. So for a lot of things converting analog to digital, the cheap and easy solutions treat everything like 480i, since that was technically the standard. So you're going to get deinterlacing artifacts all over the place, because it's trying to deinterlace a signal that isn't. Then there comes issues with framerates, and how analog stuff could be off spec and work, and not so the case with most digital things. So there might be some framerate conversions to handle. To do things right, knowing how to handle a 240p signal, and to do with it without adding a ton of lag, requires special consideration, more planning, and usually more expensive design and parts. That's just the nature of it. It's like saying I want a car that can do 200 mph but I shouldn't have to pay more than the cost of a 5 year old honda civic for it. You're asking for high performance, regardless of if you realize it or not. While HDMI supports a lot of resolutions now and more framerates, 240p was only added in a more recent update. I don't remember which update it was, but the converter, tv and anything else in the chain might need say HDMI 2.0 and up to support 240p, which is going to be more expensive, than just using a 1.4 rated hdmi port. Alot of older tvs won't even accept a 240p signal over HDMI. There's so much more going on here than simply converting from analog to digital.
Awesome! So I guess if those component cables I linked on Amazon are good then I'm good to go.
I just pulled the trigger on blue jean cables recently. They commanded a higher price, but they seem to have the highest word of mouth around.
So, I'm mostly going to be using this OSSC for 480i and 480p content. My question is; Do I really need to get a remote? I know that any universal remote will work once programmed, but can the OSSC just not be used without one? It seems it only has buttons on the device to control input and scanlines, so in order to engage any of the line multiplying I have to use a remote?
I needed one--at least for initial setup. Like you, I have very limited needs for the OSSC: just 240p PS1 games (with the occasional 480i). So, I bought a $10 RCA remote at Best Buy and set it up. Took about an hour total to get the remote paired and mapped, and then the OSSC's input/output set, but now I don't need the remote at all.
The one pre-setup and sold by Videogameperfection is about $16 shipped, so I guess the extra $6 (which all comes down to shipping from overseas it seems) is worth not having to deal with the headache of mapping yourself.
Just checking - did you get the OSSC for that price? If so, huge congratulations, that's a steal!!
Good call on getting the remote from VideoGamePerfeection - my universal remote gets annoying to reprogram. It's not difficult or time consuming, but it does make for a hassle.
Just FYI - 480i isn't necessarily the best on an OSSC, but it's better than nothing! I use specific settings to help get it looking better, but 480i is just difficult to work with on modern TVs.
480p on the OSSC, especially if your TV can pull off Upsample2x and perfect 480p scaliness, looks astonishing. My TV only works with vertical scanlines in 480p, and they don't really work well for Dreamcast.
But Gamecube and Wii look soooo good.
I'd love to know what settings you tinkered with. I've been experimenting with optimised modes for PS2 titles, but there is little to no documentation on which games are outputting at 512 or 640. So far I've just been loading up my games in an emulator and making a note of their resolution.
Ha, I wish I could say it was super technical dialed in settings for PS2, but I've found that changing some of those settings makes scanlines look odd on 480 definitions.
And, for my preferences, the scanlines are what help these 480 games go from nice looking to amazing looking, so I need to keep those on.
So, I literally just keep it at mostly default settings, then I use the basic Upsample2x in combination with vertical scanlines - you also might be able to use horizontal, if your TV supports it. The idea is to get super thin scanlines that help soften the image and partially negate the effects of interlacing - that's my main goal with the PS2.
That said, I'm just a novice at this, so I'm not sure this will help you much.
But after comparing dialed in specs on other 480 systems, I generally think it looks a bit better on defaults with Upsample2x.
Yes, indeed I did! I don't have much money, but I couldn't pass on that. I am passing on the remote tho, it's an additional $16 (or $21 with the overlay) which I need to hold off on spending right now. I'm going to see if the remote for my 1080p Sony that I no longer use works with it.
I assume 480i looks rough on the OSSC due to the bob deinterlacing, right? I sure don't like the excessive bobbing of it I've seen in videos. Thankfully the original Xbox has very few 480i games. I have a December 2006 model PS3 and that's what I use for my PS2 games. Once I get the OSSC I am tempted to hook up my official component cables to the PS3 and throw some 480i PS2 games straight to the OSSC and see how it compares against how the PS3 deinterlaces and upscales the signal. I find many games even in 480p to look rather blurry on the PS3.
As far as I know my TV will handle all the line multiplying resolutions just fine. I have an LG B7, the same TV that Try of My Life in Gaming has in which he showed the OSSC working at those strange resolutions on it perfectly.
Yeah, we're of two minds then, bob-de-interlacing + scanlines actually does a really decent job at approximating CRT flicker. Its also worth heading over to Junker HQ Optimal timings and setting up both a 512 and 640 line PS2 profile, as the default mode will give you sampling errors in games like TimeSplitters when its not set to the correct line count. Quick and easy to set up, highly recommended though, cleans up some of the persistent combing artifacts in some games.
The PS3 actually does an excellent job with 480i content but the upscaling leaves something to be desired. The OSSC will certainly look sharper if your TV supports line 4x mode, but the flicker from the bob-deinterlacing is a dealbreaker for some. 480p at line 2x looks incredible though.
Awesome, I'm super stoked to have someone else join the OSSC club!
Yeah, the way the OSSC displays interlacing, though not bad, isn't as good as the Framemeister, as most probably know. But, it's perfectly serviceable, in my opinion. I do miss my Framemeister sometimes, but the lag was a bit too much for me.
I believe My Life in Gaming came to the conclusion that a PS3 with smoothing or just a Framemeister is the best option for PS2 games on a modern TV - that's all in their PS2 video if you want to check it out!
Oh, nice! Are the super thin scanlines in Upsample2x still displayed properly when using the advanced timings?
If I recall, I was going to set those up a long while ago, but like you, I found that I couldn't discern 512 vs 640 games and kinda gave up on settings for PS2.
Same problem with the Sega Saturn, actually - I couldn't figure out what resolution many of the games displayed in.
Is there something on the OSSC that shows the exact input resolution?
So, the best thing to do is to not have the PS3 output through HDMI and use its upscaling, but instead set upscaling off (so 480p) and connect it via component to the OSSC with line 2x?
I've actually watched their PS2 video three times this week alone. I have bad memory, and it's a long VERY in depth video. It definitely seems like the PS3 is the best option for PS2, but I'm just wondering if I can get even better results using component to the OSSC.
Yup, they display just fine, which makes sense as with the optimised mode you're giving the OSSC the correct line count to double/quadruple.
No, sadly. I've been going through the laborious process with PS1/PS2 games of throwing my discs into an emulator and seeing what the internal resolution is. It is less of a pain on PS2 because its output is pretty standard whereas PS1 has 320x240, 256x 240, 384x240, 512x240 (and a few others that aren't often used outside of menus). With my PS2 backups I just place the resolution in the description window in OPL so I know which profile to switch to once I start it up, once I finally get a PSIO installed I'll probably do the same with file names on my PS1.
In theory yeah, the OSSC would nicely line-double that to 960p. Provided you have some OEM component cables (or HD retrovision) it should look great. There's really no downside as the PS3 was mostly a 720p console anyway so most games should passthrough just fine.
I've watched it a few times and as a huge fan of their channel I have to say its the only one of their videos that misses the mark somewhat. Unlike all their other videos they completely glossed over the fact that the generic mode via the OSSC cant properly de-interlace 640 line PS2 games, just try loading up TimeSplitters and you'll see what I mean.
The PS3 component cables I have I figured were generic because I bought them loose used at a GameStop and they had no branding on them. But according to one of My Life in Gaming's videos they're actually official, despite the lack of branding.
They're these:
The PS3 component cables I have I figured were generic because I bought them loose used at a GameStop and they had no branding on them. But according to one of My Life in Gaming's videos they're actually official, despite the lack of branding.
They're these:
I can't comment since I have the OEM PS3 component cables, but it will be pretty evident once you plug them in how good they are. I'm pretty happy with mine, there's a bit of noise but my understanding is it comes from the PS2's component encoder.
True, I'll definitely see once I get my OSSC. My Xbox component cables were these unbranded component & composite cable which I can't even find a picture of online, when I plugged them into the TV in the living room that supports component it was a blurry mess with ghosting.
Just out of curiosity, would you be able to share your findings on PS2 resolutions publicly via Google Docs or the like?
At very least, I would bet your findings could be added to the OSSC wiki to help everyone out!
Anyways, just a thought - I know it'd help ME out quite a bit!
Got lucky on Craigslist and was able to pick up a Sony PVM-20M4U from a broadcast tech company that was moving offices after 15+ years.
I have a bunch of SCART cables for various consoles from getting into the Framemeister so now I need to get a SCART to BNC cable.
I noticed tho that there's also one with sync separation...
Has anyone gone through this before and knows what I should be buying here...?
I have a bunch of SCART cables for various consoles from getting into the Framemeister so now I need to get a SCART to BNC cable.
I noticed tho that there's also one with sync separation...
Has anyone gone through this before and knows what I should be buying here...?
What's this "Timing" stuff I'm hearing about in regards to the OSSC? Is it not just plug and play but requires you to calibrate it?
You can trust it to just do it's thing and use a varaity of preset settings but you can also fine tune it with advanced settings to get it more accurate/fix problems. There are some people that have good settings listed for most systems if you need it but some of the settings will be specific system dependent.
OSSC Timing Profiles
If you want to tinker with it until you get a very sharp image, your consoles can look stunning. However, no matter how good the suggested settings are, a little manual adjustment will probably be necessary.
As apathetic said, the default settings will probably work just fine for your consoles. I still use the default settings on a few consoles, just with added scanlines.
Completely up to you if you want to adjust the more advanced settings.
The primary system I'll be using it on is Xbox, which doesn't seem to have a profile here. I'm also tempted to try using it with a launch PS3 via component for PS2 games to see if the OSSC's line multiplier is preferable to the PS3's upscaling.
Has anyone had issues with international shipments on their OSSC before? It made it from Ireland into the US via NYC and made it to my local regional facility, but then it turned around and got sent back to the "JAMAICA NY INTERNATIONAL DISTRIBUTION CENTER." I really hope it isn't being returned without me even being notified - I decided to try and use the Irish tracking number on the USPS site today and was surprised that it worked.