Retro AV Thread |OT| RGB, CRTs, Upscalers, and More

Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,168
That’s awesome news on both consoles! Is it a 20gb or 60gb? (Or 40gb?)
I wanted to purchase a launch PS3 for the excellent de interlacing, but after researching for a while, I just got too nervous.

So, I bought a PS2 instead and now that console is probably dying. So my plan ultimately was a flop.
I believe it was a 60gb, I upgraded it to a 500gb. Should've done a 1tb in retrospect.

So the deinterlacing is really good? Over the years I've seen people criticise it (as well as the upscaling).
 

Teiresias

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,458
Huh. That is bizarre. Have you contacted the VideoGamePerfection support directly? He can directly communicate with Marqs if necessary - it almost sounds like a firmware problem.

Well, if you have a work around that you’re comfortable with, I guess it’s not a big deal. I just run RCA out from my SCART and component switcher and I’m pretty satisfied with that setup. Everything should look incredible on the LG OLED!
I've posted about it on the VGP forum, but there are other posts and threads having the same issue. The consensus seems to be it's either the display signal chain or the SNES jitter issue or a combination of both.

The main reason I like to take all the audio from the consoles directly to my system is because the OSSC really amplifies the underlying buzz in the Genesis output for some reason. Running the stereo out from the SegaCD directly to my receiver is much cleaner.

I did just remember I do have a SNES SCART cable so I may try moving the SNES to V1 and see if the problem follows it to that input.

My only real complaint with the OSSC is that I think the 256x240opt 4:3 output seems a bit too wide, but I dislike 8:7 so I'm trying to get used to it. The 320x240opt 4:3 output is fine though. Makes the Genesis look amazing!
 
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Oct 27, 2017
340
My OSSC came and I ended up ordering the HDMI to VGA adapter from Castlemania Games and using a generic VGA cable I had laying around (probably came with a PC monitor).

I’m running into an issue when using the RT2x and HDMI to VGA out & VGA cable, where video flashes and cuts out for longer intervals, displaying for only short intervals like 3 seconds. The issue happens when connected directly to my PC monitor or my OSSC.

Any ideas whether it’s the adapter, the cable, or something else?
 

Televator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,612
If it’s a A01 or B01 PS3 I recommend changing as much of the thermal paste as possible.
 
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I've posted about it on the VGP forum, but there are other posts and threads having the same issue. The consensus seems to be it's either the display signal chain or the SNES jitter issue or a combination of both.

The main reason I like to take all the audio from the consoles directly to my system is because the OSSC really amplifies the underlying buzz in the Genesis output for some reason. Running the stereo out from the SegaCD directly to my receiver is much cleaner.

I did just remember I do have a SNES SCART cable so I may try moving the SNES to V1 and see if the problem follows it to that input.

My only real complaint with the OSSC is that I think the 256x240opt 4:3 output seems a bit too wide, but I dislike 8:7 so I'm trying to get used to it. The 320x240opt 4:3 output is fine though. Makes the Genesis look amazing!
Ah, yes - my current struggle as well is deciding the lower resolution aspect ratio. I can't deal with 256 in 8:7 - it's too tiny.

I have not actually tried 320 in any other modes - is 320 in 8:7 square pixels, as well or is 4:3 just fine - I think I'm in 4:3 right now.
 

Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,168
Comaparing that to my OG xbox barely getting up to 58 at most, but I suppose the PS3 just has a higher operating temp. If you hear the fans getting louder on average, it’s time to worry.
It does, Cell runs hot. I have the fans running louder at all times via homebrew. Before I did that the fans would indeed ramp up after 5 minutes of being on.
 

Televator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,612
It does, Cell runs hot. I have the fans running louder at all times via homebrew. Before I did that the fans would indeed ramp up after 5 minutes of being on.
Ah right, well the problem in particular with the PS3, if thermal conductivity is compromised (and we’re talking about thermal paste that is ~12 years old now), it won’t matter how hard the fans blow.
 

Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,168
Ah right, well the problem in particular with the PS3, if thermal conductivity is compromised (and we’re talking about thermal paste that is ~12 years old now), it won’t matter how hard the fans blow.
If I do open it back up to redo the thermal paste I would like to fix the disc drive. But a replacement drive didn't fix it, it still won't accept discs. Would it be one of the cables?
 

Astral/H3X

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,400
eBay link

So for these Extrons that do RGBHV, can I push YPbPr over them with L/R audio over the HV inputs? Or do the Extrons do some intelligent signal detection that would fuck with that?
 

raketenrolf

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,435
Germany
A long shot but I’ll try anyway.

Does anyone here have experience with a Dell 2007fp 4:3 model?
Those are old TFT monitors with S-Video in (also DVI and VGA) but the max. res. is 1600x1200 as far as I know so I don’t know how 240p content or 480p content looks. Wanted to know if someone has any experience with them?

They are pretty cheap nowadays and you can use the, in tate mode. Thinking about getting one.
 

MattWhite924

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,436
It's something that I really need to get around to on my launch ps3. Haven't turned it on in like a year now anyway though.
It's a pain in the butt, especially since odds are the paste under the heat spreader needs changed too.

My PS3 kept overheating, so I changed the thermal paste, only for it to not help. It wasn't until I de-lidded the CPU and GPU and changed that thermal paste under it that I got it working well again.
 

apathetic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
843
It's a pain in the butt, especially since odds are the paste under the heat spreader needs changed too.

My PS3 kept overheating, so I changed the thermal paste, only for it to not help. It wasn't until I de-lidded the CPU and GPU and changed that thermal paste under it that I got it working well again.
Great. Think it would be better for me to just box it up and move onto my backup slim next time I want to play some ps3.
 

Televator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,612
It's a pain in the butt, especially since odds are the paste under the heat spreader needs changed too.

My PS3 kept overheating, so I changed the thermal paste, only for it to not help. It wasn't until I de-lidded the CPU and GPU and changed that thermal paste under it that I got it working well again.
The CPU cement paste is hard as hell. I haven’t been able to pry mine off. I’ve seen people use painting knives, is that what you used?
 
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Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,168
Is it normal for Wii games to have a faint scanline look to them? I especially notice it in Skyward Sword. I'm hoping it isn't an issue with my WIi or equipment.

Other than that, I keep going back and forth between 480p passthru and 480p line2x and can't make up my mind if I like the super sharp look or not.
 
Is it normal for Wii games to have a faint scanline look to them? I especially notice it in Skyward Sword. I'm hoping it isn't an issue with my WIi or equipment.

Other than that, I keep going back and forth between 480p passthru and 480p line2x and can't make up my mind if I like the super sharp look or not.
Vertical or horizontal scanlines? And are they even scanlines or just randomly interspersed throughout the picture? I've never noticed them myself, but maybe others have - also, are you using a Wii or Wii U?

As for the sharpness, have you tried Upsample2x on Line2x? It's the best of both worlds - super clear image, but not ultra sharp, either.
Adding in scanlines to the mix really makes the picture complete with Upsample2x.
 

Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,168
Vertical or horizontal scanlines? And are they even scanlines or just randomly interspersed throughout the picture? I've never noticed them myself, but maybe others have - also, are you using a Wii or Wii U?

As for the sharpness, have you tried Upsample2x on Line2x? It's the best of both worlds - super clear image, but not ultra sharp, either.
Adding in scanlines to the mix really makes the picture complete with Upsample2x.
Horizontal. An actual Wii.

I have tried upsample2x and it just subtly blurs the picture to my eyes. Doesn't do much for me.
 
Horizontal. An actual Wii.

I have tried upsample2x and it just subtly blurs the picture to my eyes. Doesn't do much for me.
Just tested it out - indeed there is a very slight scanline-esque effect at line2x without any post-processing,, but I didn't see any actual scanlines.
Upsample2x mostly clears the effect for me.

Upsample2x should not make the picture blurrier - it should look as clear as line2x with less aliasing, essentially.
Again, if you are caught between the look of direct 480p vs Line2x, then Upsample should theoretically be the perfect in-between point. It looks spectacular on my setup, at least.
 

Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,168
Just tested it out - indeed there is a very slight scanline-esque effect at line2x without any post-processing,, but I didn't see any actual scanlines.
Upsample2x mostly clears the effect for me.

Upsample2x should not make the picture blurrier - it should look as clear as line2x with less aliasing, essentially.
Again, if you are caught between the look of direct 480p vs Line2x, then Upsample should theoretically be the perfect in-between point. It looks spectacular on my setup, at least.
Unfortunately upsample2x doesn't resolve the scanline-esque effect for me, not even 480p passthru does. This seems to just be a thing on Wii, PS2 and Xbox is good.
 

Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,168
Just tested another game, RE4 Wii Edition. It also has scanlines, but this time they're vertical! Is this really normal? I sure don't remember seeing them in the past, tho the last time I played my Wii and library was almost a decade ago on a 1080p TV with no external upscaler so maybe they just weren't noticeable on such a setup.
 

Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,168
Just looked up high quality videos of RE4 Wii and Skyward Sword on Youtube and yep, sure enough they're there. What in the world... Horizontal lines in SS, vertical in RE4, and none in Mario Galaxy.
 

Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,168

Televator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,612
Yeah, I think you're right. Apparently as of a few months ago you can remove it with Swiss, but that's only for Gamecube games right, no solution for Wii games? https://www.resetera.com/threads/gamecube-alpha-dithering-now-removable-via-homebrew-comparisons-show-a-huge-difference.91118/

Gosh, I never noticed dithering on the Wii back in the day...
Yeah I remembered similar effects on some GCN games because of dithering. But yeah, Swiss only boots GCN images. I haven’t dove deep into Wii games so I’m not sure if any Homebrew provides similar perks. I should check out the newest Swiss build though. I love how much it keeps developing.
 

Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,168
In your all's opinion, which of these setups would produce the best results for PS2 games on my BC PS3?

1. PS3 set to 480i via component to the OSSC in Line4x mode.

2. PS3 set to 480p (PS3 deinterlaces) via component to the OSSC in Line2x mode.

3. PS3 set to 1080p via HDMI sent straight to the TV (PS3 deinterlaces and upscales, no OSSC).

My TV is an LG B7 which scales well, or so I hear.

Previous advice shared here makes it sound like option 2 is the best, but just want to be sure.
 

Televator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,612
2 gives you motion adaptive deinterlace + integer scaling up to 960

That would be best, though for some reason, it never occurred to me to test that out before myself.
 

Televator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,612
I would trust PS3 scaling as little as possible. Deinterlace sure, but OSSC for the scaling.
If PS3 did nearest neighbor integer or multiplication like the OSSC it’d be fine. Unfortunately, I think it only does interpolation for games.

It’s weird, because PS3 does actually have a line doubling mode, but just for movies.
 
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Roge_NES

Member
Feb 18, 2018
303
In your all's opinion, which of these setups would produce the best results for PS2 games on my BC PS3?

1. PS3 set to 480i via component to the OSSC in Line4x mode.

2. PS3 set to 480p (PS3 deinterlaces) via component to the OSSC in Line2x mode.

3. PS3 set to 1080p via HDMI sent straight to the TV (PS3 deinterlaces and upscales, no OSSC).

My TV is an LG B7 which scales well, or so I hear.

Previous advice shared here makes it sound like option 2 is the best, but just want to be sure.

option 1 would be best for games that don't support progressive scan, otherwise option 2.
also try turning on the smoothing option, it helps a little with jagged edges.

but of course if possible i'd recommend to use a ps2 with rgb cables instead.
 

Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,168
Why use RGB Scart instead of component? It's my understanding that the difference in quality is pretty much indistinguishable, with the exception of component on PS2 having video noise which I imagine doesn't exist on PS3.
 

Televator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,612
Why use RGB Scart instead of component? It's my understanding that the difference in quality is pretty much indistinguishable, with the exception of component on PS2 having video noise which I imagine doesn't exist on PS3.
I was mostly replying to the suggestion by rogue nes that you get a PS2 with RGB cables. It’s something PS3 can do too, so that’s kind of unnecessary.

For the record though: Component, though you won’t mostly notice in real time (especially if you’re unaware of its peculiarities), does have artifacts and loss characteristic of both the compression and reconversion from/to RGB.
 
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Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,168
I was mostly replying to the suggestion by rogue nes that you get a PS2 with RGB cables. It’s something PS3 can do too, so that’s kind of unnecessary.

For the record though: Component, though you won’t mostly notice in real time (especially if you’re unaware of its peculiarities), does have artifacts and loss characteristic of both the compression and reconversion from/to RGB.
I don't know anything at all, yeah. I'm just going off the My Life in Gaming video where they noted no real difference between RGB and component, with the exception of the actual PS2 console.
 

Roge_NES

Member
Feb 18, 2018
303
Why use RGB Scart instead of component? It's my understanding that the difference in quality is pretty much indistinguishable, with the exception of component on PS2 having video noise which I imagine doesn't exist on PS3.

Video noise with component exists on PS3 as well, it just depends on the quality of the cable, if yours doesn't have noise then it's fine.
 

Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,168
Video noise with component exists on PS3 as well, it just depends on the quality of the cable, if yours doesn't have noise then it's fine.
I don't notice any. My component cables are the ones with the black metal connectors and braided sleeves that have no branding on them. I bought them loose at GameStop years ago, but the My Life in Gaming video showed a picture of them and says they're official Sony cables.
 

Televator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,612
To clarify: I wasn’t talking about “video noise” inherent to either PS3 or PS2. I was talking about the typical component standard of compression.

However, anecdotally from my own testing, I can say that PS2 does have a noisier output in component than PS3 that [edit]

Actually it can be, to some extent, a result of possibly different filters/algorithms in the conversion to/from component between PS3 and PS2. Sorry for my edit, it’s been a while since I’ve made these comparisons and google research.
 
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Roge_NES

Member
Feb 18, 2018
303
To clarify: I wasn’t talking about “video noise” inherent to either PS3 or PS2. I was talking about the typical component standard of compression.

However, anecdotally from my own testing, I can say that PS2 does have a noisier output in component than PS3 that [edit]

Actually it can be, to some extent, a result of possibly different filters/algorithms in the conversion to/from component between PS3 and PS2. Sorry for my edit, it’s been a while since I’ve made these comparisons and google research.


As similar as they are I'd much prefer RGB Euroscart just for the connector itself :P
 

sleepnaught

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,282
There's a 32" FV310 about an hour away from me. Ive read a lot of hype about these tvs about them being the best consumer grade CRTs. Would it be worth the drive?