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Retro AV Thread |OT| RGB, CRTs, Upscalers, and More

Barn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,046
Los Angeles
I'm not sure if I can take a deep dive into CRT gaming due to my small space and lean toward keeping things minimal, but I found this beautiful little Trinitron at a yardsale today and had to bite. It's a Sony Trinitron KV-1380R. Really interesting, in that I believe the colored logo indicates that it's a pre-1990 model, but it has stereo speakers (you can see one in the pic -- they jut out like wings from each side), a front headphone jack and composite inputs.




I picked it up for $5 without even haggling, mostly because I was smitten with the industrial design. What do ya'll think about this one for a modest retro gaming setup?
 

Roge_NES

Member
Feb 18, 2018
291
I picked it up for $5 without even haggling, mostly because I was smitten with the industrial design. What do ya'll think about this one for a modest retro gaming setup?

Looks nice, how's the picture quality?
I don't think it would be ideal for a big retro gaming setup since it only offers composite inputs, but it could be cool use with a single console like an NES or a Famicom. simple and minimalistic.
 

sixteen-bit

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,049
Barn, I would like to second Roge_NES 's suggestion to incorporate it into a minimal composite setup. I have a similar model (KV-1370R from 1985) and have a PCE + CDROM2 IFU briefcase set up on it. Since based on your post it sounds like you picked up the TV based on looks, I'm happy to report they work well together aesthetically with a contemporaneous 1980s flair. To be honest though, together they're more of a display piece since I could easily play PCE and CD games on the SD3 in RGB on another monitor instead.

Of course, if you're feeling adventurous and are aware of the risks, you could look into modding an RGB input on it. I've seen guides online where folks do that with consumer CRTs. That way you could connect multiple systems to it without compromising too much on image quality.

Either way, congrats on the purchase! I enjoy Sony TV design from that era so much. They're certainly much cooler looking than the countless gray Wega CRTs from the 2000s.
 

modoversus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,202
México
I was thinking of getting a Retrotink 2X, but I have read that it may not work with the old Elgato HD game capture. Is this true? Because that is the only reason I need it, so I don't have to deinterlace and upscale video myself manually.
 

Barn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,046
Los Angeles
Looks nice, how's the picture quality?
I don't think it would be ideal for a big retro gaming setup since it only offers composite inputs, but it could be cool use with a single console like an NES or a Famicom. simple and minimalistic.
@Barn, I would like to second @Roge_NES 's suggestion to incorporate it into a minimal composite setup. I have a similar model (KV-1370R from 1985) and have a PCE + CDROM2 IFU briefcase set up on it. Since based on your post it sounds like you picked up the TV based on looks, I'm happy to report they work well together aesthetically with a contemporaneous 1980s flair. To be honest though, together they're more of a display piece since I could easily play PCE and CD games on the SD3 in RGB on another monitor instead.

Of course, if you're feeling adventurous and are aware of the risks, you could look into modding an RGB input on it. I've seen guides online where folks do that with consumer CRTs. That way you could connect multiple systems to it without compromising too much on image quality.

Either way, congrats on the purchase! I enjoy Sony TV design from that era so much. They're certainly much cooler looking than the countless gray Wega CRTs from the 2000s.
Thanks, ya'll. I can't comment on the picture quality since I currently don't have any devices to hook up to it at the moment, but it's all functional and immaculately well-kept. If I find a spot for it in the house, I'm thinking it'll just be a simple retro setup -- ideally a little curio cabinet with an SD system or two (nothing past the Genesis), maybe a VCR and some '90s relics, like my clear-case phone. Nothing super serious.
 

RobotVM

Member
Oct 27, 2017
516
I picked up a KV-13FS100. At first, I thought everything was good but now I am noticing everything has a green tint to it. The whites are definitely not white. Any advice?
 
Oct 27, 2017
334
Not sure if this is necessarily related to AV, but figured this would be the right crowd to ask anyway:

Any recommendations for controller extension wires? My wife and I are getting ready to move into a new house, and I'm finally going to use the opportunity to neatly organize and set up each of my old retro consoles (probably using something like the Ikea BILLY bookcase). I foresee them being set up to the left or right of my TV, instead of directly under it, and therefore I need longer controller extensions to reach the systems. https://www.raphnet-tech.com used to sell various extensions but they have been discontinued.

Systems I'm looking for: PS1, N64, PS2, Dreamcast, Saturn & GameCube.
 

Erekiddo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
388
I did it. I did it.

After 10 years of wanting one, I've finally pulled the trigger on the Framemeister XRGB-mini. I got it particularly for my PS2 and Gamecube systems, but I see myself trying it out on even older systems such as SNES and N64. I've read a lot of tutorials but I want to make sure I have anything I need so I hit the ground running.

So far, I have:
- Framemeister XRGB-mini.
- D-Terminal Male to Female Component Adapter.
- English sticker to place over remote.

I'm in the US, so the concept of SCART is really foreign to me. What additional things would I need if I wanted to plug in my SNES?

Edit: It looks like all I'd need is this https://retro-access.com/collections/xrgb-adaptors/products/micomsoft-xrgb-mini-passive-adapter-for-euro-scart-to-xrgb-mini-8-pin?variant=45852891795 along with an SNES SCART cable. Is my understanding on this correct?
 
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Oct 27, 2017
1,772
I did it. I did it.

After 10 years of wanting one, I've finally pulled the trigger on the Framemeister XRGB-mini. I got it particularly for my PS2 and Gamecube systems, but I see myself trying it out on even older systems such as SNES and N64. I've read a lot of tutorials but I want to make sure I have anything I need so I hit the ground running.

So far, I have:
- Framemeister XRGB-mini.
- D-Terminal Male to Female Component Adapter.
- English sticker to place over remote.

I'm in the US, so the concept of SCART is really foreign to me. What additional things would I need if I wanted to plug in my SNES?

Edit: It looks like all I'd need is this https://retro-access.com/collections/xrgb-adaptors/products/micomsoft-xrgb-mini-passive-adapter-for-euro-scart-to-xrgb-mini-8-pin?variant=45852891795 along with an SNES SCART cable. Is my understanding on this correct?
Yup!, that's all you'll need so long as you have a good quality scart cable for your SNES.
 

Roge_NES

Member
Feb 18, 2018
291
I did it. I did it.

After 10 years of wanting one, I've finally pulled the trigger on the Framemeister XRGB-mini. I got it particularly for my PS2 and Gamecube systems, but I see myself trying it out on even older systems such as SNES and N64. I've read a lot of tutorials but I want to make sure I have anything I need so I hit the ground running.

So far, I have:
- Framemeister XRGB-mini.
- D-Terminal Male to Female Component Adapter.
- English sticker to place over remote.

I'm in the US, so the concept of SCART is really foreign to me. What additional things would I need if I wanted to plug in my SNES?

Edit: It looks like all I'd need is this https://retro-access.com/collections/xrgb-adaptors/products/micomsoft-xrgb-mini-passive-adapter-for-euro-scart-to-xrgb-mini-8-pin?variant=45852891795 along with an SNES SCART cable. Is my understanding on this correct?

Where did you get it from? Solaris Japan sells a bundle with the Euro Scart adapter already included.
All SNES models output RGB without modding, all you need is the Euro Scart RGB Cable, except for the SNES Jr. Which requires modding.

Unfortunately PS2, N64 and Gamecube don't benefit that much from the XRGB Mini, this upscaler works wonderfully for 240P consoles.
but for anything 480i and above there's better options.


PS2 - Consider HD Ports of most popular titles.
N64 - HDMI Mod
Gamecube - GCHD MK II (Requires gamecube model with Digital Out)
 
Yeah, I'm not sure what is better for 480i de-interlacing other than the Framemeister.
The 240p is definitely above average, though there are better options available for that resolution.

The Framemeister's weakest point is 480p, though it's certainly passable.

Plus the other options listed there cost a significant amount of money.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,772
I did it. I did it.

After 10 years of wanting one, I've finally pulled the trigger on the Framemeister XRGB-mini. I got it particularly for my PS2 and Gamecube systems, but I see myself trying it out on even older systems such as SNES and N64. I've read a lot of tutorials but I want to make sure I have anything I need so I hit the ground running.
So for your Gamecube provided it is a launch model with a digital out port you're in luck as insurrection industries are launching a sub $100 component cable that from early impressions looks to be an excellent alternative to the rarefied OEM cables.

For your PS2, I'd pick up some good quality good quality component cables if you haven't already, as I said earlier the Framemeister will do an excellent job de-interlacing the PS2.

For your N64 considering you've spent the money on the XRGB mini already I'd avoid the UltraHDMI mod, it's excellent but hideously expensive. A great alternative is an affordable RGB mod that will allow your N64 to output really clean RGB video via SCART.

Anyway I started in a similar fashion, I began with one system and an OSSC and expanded out from there.

PS2 - Consider HD Ports of most popular titles.
The PS2 has hundreds of amazing games and a handful of remasters. Not really a great option.
 

Erekiddo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
388
Thanks for the quick replies! I do have component cables for both the PS2 and GameCube. I will await the restock of the Euro SCART Adapter. I’m excited!
 
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flyover

Member
Oct 26, 2017
596
I did it. I did it.

After 10 years of wanting one, I've finally pulled the trigger on the Framemeister XRGB-mini. I got it particularly for my PS2 and Gamecube systems...
Congrats, and welcome to the club! It's a great piece of equipment.

The XRGB Mini is probably the best solution for the PS2; it has excellent low latency de interlacing.
So true. I still can't believe how good games look. Makes them look just as good in actuality as they do in my memory of when PS2 was cutting-edge. I remember putting in Xenosaga 3 on day one just for a quick test, and then being so blown away that I played it for hours.
 
Oct 27, 2017
334
I’m hoping to pick up a switcher of some kind so that I can feed multiple consoles into my OSSC. After watching the MLiG episode, I think something like an Extron Crosspoint is what I need. Most of my cables are component (PS2, Wii, Saturn), with only a couple of SCART. I’m hoping to use the multi-out feature to run one set of component out into my Retrotink2x then into a capture card, since my older Elgato won’t play nice with the OSSC.

My question is: can I simply buy something to convert the component video into BNC for the Extron? I saw Coury snapping some adapters on to his component cables, but he made it sound like expensive BNC cables were necessary. FYI my component cables are almost universally HD Retrovision.
 

Jebusman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,453
Halifax, NS
All you really need are some RCA to BNC connectors like so:



And then you can plug whatever (composite or component) in, as long as you have a matching set on the output to convert back to RCA.

BNC is just a connector type, you can pass any number of signals over it.

The Crosspoint has no idea what signal is being passed through it nor does it care.
 
Oct 27, 2017
334
All you really need are some RCA to BNC connectors like so:



And then you can plug whatever (composite or component) in, as long as you have a matching set on the output to convert back to RCA.

BNC is just a connector type, you can pass any number of signals over it.

The Crosspoint has no idea what signal is being passed through it nor does it care.
Thanks, that makes sense. Any suggestions for what type of cables I should run from the Extron to my OSSC, and where to get them?

I’ll also need some RCA to Phoenix adapters, but I’m not sure where to grab those either.
 

Fuzzy

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,546
Toronto, Canada
Just saw this tweet.


May be great for someone wanting to use the second output of a SCART switch to take it to a consumer TV with component cables.
 

RobotVM

Member
Oct 27, 2017
516
Opinions on using donor N64 carts? I have a few games that have broken shells. I want to grab cheap N64 games and Switch them out. I will buy high-quality new labels. This is for my personal collection. Does anyone have experience with this?
 

Televator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
Opinions on using donor N64 carts? I have a few games that have broken shells. I want to grab cheap N64 games and Switch them out. I will buy high-quality new labels. This is for my personal collection. Does anyone have experience with this?
I have switched back shells on multiple types of games and have replaced labels when original labels look icky occasionally. I don’t really care what other people think when it comes to how I enjoy my own stuff.
 

Roge_NES

Member
Feb 18, 2018
291
Opinions on using donor N64 carts? I have a few games that have broken shells. I want to grab cheap N64 games and Switch them out. I will buy high-quality new labels. This is for my personal collection. Does anyone have experience with this?
I did this with my majoras mask with holo label, those stupid golden cartridges crack easily.
Had a spare jockey game and used the gray shell as replacement.
 

RobotVM

Member
Oct 27, 2017
516
it needs to be cheaper. It is nice to have the plug n play without an external power source though.

Also, I can't wait for the MLG comparisons to the Retrotink and UltraHDMI.
 

Televator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
Yeah, for that price I would at least want it to line multiply to 960 in a 1080 frame. If it could work with analog RGB mods as well, it could be a serious contender.
 

Erekiddo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
388
Hi all. I’m having a hell of a time with my Framemeister and SNES. I’m using the following:

- Framemeister X-RGB mini
- NTSC Super Nintendo
- NTSC SCART SNES cable:
- EuroSCART to JP21 adapter

The picture quality starts off amazing but I start to get breakup and intermittent loss of picture. Once lost, it’ll switch back to the blue screen that says ‘’no input’ although I hear audio.

I’ve updated the firmware and I’m having the same issue across multiple displays.

Help! I’ve filed a replacement on these cables and hoping I don’t have to do the same with the Framemeister.
 
OP
OP
ShinJohnpv

ShinJohnpv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
654
Are you using a profile? FirebrandX has good ones. Which SNES are you using? If its a later model 1 chip it doesn't have csync if I remember correctly. It does sound like you're having sync issues. Have you messed with the sync setting on your framemeister? If you are using a profile are you making sure to do load and not load_select?
 

Erekiddo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
388
I have a launch model. SNES-001. Not sure what other things I can check other than the sticker on the back.

What sync settings would I look for in particular on the Framemeister? Any recommendations?

And I'll check out the custom profiles. I had not done one of those yet!
 

Teiresias

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,380
Sounds like you may be having issues with sync jitter. I believe it's worst on launch and other early SNES. I experience some weird picture distortion very occasionally using my launch SNES with the OSSC. It eventually clears up and I never lose sync completely (mostly, they is one situation I do).

There is a mod for fixing it but I've never done it since it doesn't present too much on my setup.
 

Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,134
Man, some dithering in games is rough. P.N. 03 is the worst I've seen, especially in outdoor levels. I'm also getting noticeable dithering in Jet Set Radio Future on the original Xbox, something I never noticed before. Is this really all down to the fact I have higher quality component cables and putting it through an OSSC now?
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,061
I’ve had modest success with my N64 and a cable with s-video out plugged into a DVD recorder with s-video in and component out - gets me to 576p on a television with no HD capabilities when I plug an RGB cable into the DVD recorder and then connect that to the television.

I have tried to google the brands of the LG TV and Recorder I’m using but is it worth it?

PAL devices I might add.
 

Televator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
Man, some dithering in games is rough. P.N. 03 is the worst I've seen, especially in outdoor levels. I'm also getting noticeable dithering in Jet Set Radio Future on the original Xbox, something I never noticed before. Is this really all down to the fact I have higher quality component cables and putting it through an OSSC now?
As the cause of the dithering? No
As the cause of you noticing it? Yes

It would be nice if an updated soft mod dashboard allowed to toggle dithering off. I think X enhanced OG games on Xbox One X allows for 10 bit color and no dithering, but not 100% sure.

I don’t believe I saw dithering on KotOR anyway...
 

Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,134
As the cause of the dithering? No
As the cause of you noticing it? Yes

It would be nice if an updated soft mod dashboard allowed to toggle dithering off. I think X enhanced OG games on Xbox One X allows for 10 bit color and no dithering, but not 100% sure.

I don’t believe I saw dithering on KotOR anyway...
I guess I just didn't expect dithering to be so prominent on later systems like the Wii/Gamecube and original Xbox. Especially after never really encountering it on PS2.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,772
Does anyone have any experience with the Sony Trinitron kv-ar25m31?

It's an Oceania model with component inputs, a flatscreen WEGA. There's one for sale nearby and I think I might bite.
 
OP
OP
ShinJohnpv

ShinJohnpv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
654
I have a launch model. SNES-001. Not sure what other things I can check other than the sticker on the back.

What sync settings would I look for in particular on the Framemeister? Any recommendations?

And I'll check out the custom profiles. I had not done one of those yet!
I would start with the custom profiles cause I think FirebrandX has dialed in the sync settings on it too. I would make sure you have Sync mode set to Auto. Or you may need to play with the sync level setting. Though like I said I would grab FirebrandX's profiles and try that first because he goes in and adjusts that stuff already.
 

Erekiddo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
388
Thanks for the recommendations. I’m definitely learning toward jitter after what was said in here and on top of additional reading. It doesn’t happen every time either which makes it even more suspect.

I’ll try the custom profiles and report back.
 

Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,134
Try RE4 on PS2 and switch it to 480p. Witnesses a new kind of horror. ;P
I would, except I don't own RE4 on PS2 lol. I ALMOST did, back in 2007 I found a used copy of the special edition (steelbook case with the Ada Wong lithograph in it) at a GameStop but I was broke at the time, went back a week later to buy it and it was gone. I never bought it on the platform as a result. I do have it on Wii however, and the dithering is bad there, it looks like vertical scanlines.

What 480p PS2 games I own which I've tested have been Primal, Haunting Ground, and Dragonball Z: Infinite World and haven't noticed any dithering in them. That said, even without dithering, Primal looks rouuuuugh.
 
Man, some dithering in games is rough. P.N. 03 is the worst I've seen, especially in outdoor levels. I'm also getting noticeable dithering in Jet Set Radio Future on the original Xbox, something I never noticed before. Is this really all down to the fact I have higher quality component cables and putting it through an OSSC now?
I’m not sure about compatibility nor how well it actually works in practice, but the GameCube Swiss utility can disable Alpha Dithering before booting up your game.

I dont have the technical knowledge to help out anymore than that, though. But, it might be worth a shot to see how it works with your games.

I haven’t noticed dithering on the GC enough to really put this feature to the test, but I would imagine it will work well.

Edit: Links
ResetEra Dithering Removal Thread
RetroRGB News Update
 
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modoversus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,202
México
Does anyone have any experience with the Sony Trinitron kv-ar25m31?

It's an Oceania model with component inputs, a flatscreen WEGA. There's one for sale nearby and I think I might bite.
I have a Wega, but not that specific model and I like it a lot since it does have S-video and component. My advice is to check geometry before buying. My brother had another Wega and his screen image was permanently tilted to the left, and not even adjusting the tilt using the remote control could correct it completly.
 

Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,134
I’m not sure about compatibility nor how well it actually works in practice, but the GameCube Swiss utility can disable Alpha Dithering before booting up your game.

I dont have the technical knowledge to help out anymore than that, though. But, it might be worth a shot to see how it works with your games.

I haven’t noticed dithering on the GC enough to really put this feature to the test, but I would imagine it will work well.

Edit: Links
ResetEra Dithering Removal Thread
RetroRGB News Update
I believe this is only for GC, right? Alas, my GC doesn't have the digital out so I depend on my Wii for GC games.
 

Teiresias

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,380
Can anyone tell me which Genesis Model 2 SCART cable I should be buying from Retro-Access? I find the way the store is setup very confusing. I'm plugging it into an OSSC.

I actually already own a cable from the same people from like 8 years ago when they used to sell only on eBay, but I'd like to upgrade to a cable with individual cable internal shielding because I get pretty bad distortion on the audio output from this cable that isn't present on the stereo out directly from the SegaCD so I'm assuming it's the cable.
 

Televator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
I’m not sure about compatibility nor how well it actually works in practice, but the GameCube Swiss utility can disable Alpha Dithering before booting up your game.

I dont have the technical knowledge to help out anymore than that, though. But, it might be worth a shot to see how it works with your games.

I haven’t noticed dithering on the GC enough to really put this feature to the test, but I would imagine it will work well.

Edit: Links
ResetEra Dithering Removal Thread
RetroRGB News Update
That’ incredible. I remember hearing about this before and forgot. I used Swiss a lot before, but I haven’t used my GameCube in a long while.