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Retro AV Thread |OT| RGB, CRTs, Upscalers, and More

Oct 27, 2017
1,772
I have a Wega, but not that specific model and I like it a lot since it does have S-video and component. My advice is to check geometry before buying. My brother had another Wega and his screen image was permanently tilted to the left, and not even adjusting the tilt using the remote control could correct it completly.
Yeah, I've already seen some pictures, I'll be checking it out this afternoon. I'm bringing my SNES so I can get 240p test suite up and running.
 

modoversus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,202
México
Yeah, I've already seen some pictures, I'll be checking it out this afternoon. I'm bringing my SNES so I can get 240p test suite up and running.
Cool, also, forgot to mention, flat screens may have a little bit of distortion on the edges, which is normal but can vary. Mine has a tiny bit of distortion on the lower corner on the right, but during gameplay I don't notice it. It's normal, and is one reason some people don't like flat CRTs (I love them, tough).
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,772
Cool, also, forgot to mention, flat screens may have a little bit of distortion on the edges, which is normal but can vary. Mine has a tiny bit of distortion on the lower corner on the right, but during gameplay I don't notice it. It's normal, and is one reason some people don't like flat CRTs (I love them, tough).
Yeah, I'm at peace with the fact the geometry won't be perfect, there's another curved trinitron that I passed on that has great geometry but a really bloomed out blurry picture.

So long as the scroll test doesn't make me feel seasick I can live with it haha.
 
I believe this is only for GC, right? Alas, my GC doesn't have the digital out so I depend on my Wii for GC games.
It can be installed on Wii, but that’s about the sum of my knowledge on the subject, heh. But, unfortunately, I think you are right, as the Wii version of Swiss isn't as full featured as the GameCube version, from what I know.

Also, I’m not sure what the limitations of posting about OS/BIOS mods are here...

Can anyone tell me which Genesis Model 2 SCART cable I should be buying from Retro-Access? I find the way the store is setup very confusing. I'm plugging it into an OSSC.

I actually already own a cable from the same people from like 8 years ago when they used to sell only on eBay, but I'd like to upgrade to a cable with individual cable internal shielding because I get pretty bad distortion on the audio output from this cable that isn't present on the stereo out directly from the SegaCD so I'm assuming it's the cable.
This Genesis 2 cable should work just fine. All their cables are now shielded by default, which is why the price went up about $10 dollars.

Normally, they also have a PCB option vs individually soldered wires option - I didn’t see it listed in the current drop down menu, though.

The fortaflex cables have the input jack bent at a 90 degree angle for systems like the Genesis model 3. If you have a need for that, then they got you covered.

Just make sure you get right on there when it says it will be back in stock, because those cables go pretty quickly.
 
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Teiresias

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,380
It can be installed on Wii, but that’s about the sum of my knowledge on the subject, heh. But, unfortunately, I think you are right, as the Wii version of Swiss isn't as full featured as the GameCube version, from what I know.

Also, I’m not sure what the limitations of posting about OS/BIOS mods are here...



This Genesis 2 cable should work just fine. All their cables are now shielded by default, which is why the price went up about $10 dollars.

Normally, they also have a PCB option vs individually soldered wires option - I didn’t see it listed in the current drop down menu, though.

The fortaflex cables have the input jack bent at a 90 degree angle for systems like the Genesis model 3. If you have a need for that, then they got you covered.

Just make sure you get right on there when it says it will be back in stock, because those cables go pretty quickly.
Thanks, I couldn't find a description of the PCB variants so I want sure what the difference was. I guess the PCB is probably more reliable for the capacitors that need to be in line.
 
Thanks, I couldn't find a description of the PCB variants so I want sure what the difference was. I guess the PCB is probably more reliable for the capacitors that need to be in line.
That’s what I’ve heard about the reliability, too. The PCB design seems like it’s been increasing in popularity for some time - I believe it is a bit more expensive on Retro Access though.

That said, I know some PCBs can have (and have had) manufacturing issues, so that’s another reason I stick with wired cables.
 

Bragg

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,411
Arkansas
Thanks, that makes sense. Any suggestions for what type of cables I should run from the Extron to my OSSC, and where to get them?

I’ll also need some RCA to Phoenix adapters, but I’m not sure where to grab those either.
I just use more connectors and run a regular set of component cables from my Extron to my OSSC.

The Phoenix adapters are a bit more bothersome. I think these are offical adapters. Here are some unoffical ones. I needed quite a few so I just made my own. It's not difficult. I just bought some cheap female rca connectors and phoenix connectors and cut the 3.5 jack off the rca cables and ran the wires into the phoenix connectors. They just screw down so it's easy. I think I followed the directions from here.

I love my extron. I have my SNES, N64 (rgb mod), Cube (Eon MK2), Wii, Genesis/SegaCD/32x, Saturn, PS2 and Xbox all via component to the Extron and then running two component outs from the extron, one to the OSSC and the other to a PVM.
 
Oct 27, 2017
334
I just use more connectors and run a regular set of component cables from my Extron to my OSSC.

The Phoenix adapters are a bit more bothersome. I think these are offical adapters. Here are some unoffical ones. I needed quite a few so I just made my own. It's not difficult. I just bought some cheap female rca connectors and phoenix connectors and cut the 3.5 jack off the rca cables and ran the wires into the phoenix connectors. They just screw down so it's easy. I think I followed the directions from here.

I love my extron. I have my SNES, N64 (rgb mod), Cube (Eon MK2), Wii, Genesis/SegaCD/32x, Saturn, PS2 and Xbox all via component to the Extron and then running two component outs from the extron, one to the OSSC and the other to a PVM.
Thanks, very helpful links.

I ended up getting outbid on the Extrons I found on eBay, however I won both a generic Pelican component switcher and an Impact Acoustics 6x2 component matrix (both were highly touted by My Life in Gaming). So the good news is I don’t need to worry about BNC or Phoenix adapters. The downside is that for the two SCART connections I have (PS1 and Dreamcast) I’ll need to look into adapting them to component. Thankfully Mike Chi’s newly announced adapter seems to be what I’m looking for. I’m curious though, will there be any loss of quality when I’m doing that type of conversion (RBG SCART -> Component RCA)?
 

raketenrolf

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,401
Germany
I was just looking for a PVM and saw someone in my area selling a 1444QM for 40€. Condition seems okay for its age but I don’t know if the price is good or not. I also don’t know if this is considered a good model. Can’t find much about it online.

Want to play PS1, PS2 and SFC on it. Maybe Gamecube too. All over RGB. Should I bite or look for a better model?
 

Augemitbutter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,384
I was just looking for a PVM and saw someone in my area selling a 1444QM for 40€. Condition seems okay for its age but I don’t know if the price is good or not. I also don’t know if this is considered a good model. Can’t find much about it online.

Want to play PS1, PS2 and SFC on it. Maybe Gamecube too. All over RGB. Should I bite or look for a better model?
it's good if it's in good condition and the price sounds fair. It's an older model so i'm pretty sure it doesn't have a menu on-screen if you need some fine tuning/calibration. I'd get it if you can test it.
 

sleepnaught

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,160
Found the perfect little TV for my desk. I'm loving this little thing. Its a Sony Trinitron KV-1370R from 1986. Its only composite, but the picture quality looks great. Much better in person.

 

flyover

Member
Oct 26, 2017
596
Is $300 for a Trinitron 1953MD good? I've got one I can pick up this weekend.
If it's in good condition and you don't already have a 19"/20" PVM, it would be a good place to start. Price seems ok; prices seem to fluctuate based on location/availability of other PVMs.
Yeah, if it has no issues that can't be handled by calibrating in the menus, that sounds fine. Considering the amount of work and luck it may take to find a better deal (especially depending where you live), nothing wrong with just getting something you 1) know works, and 2) can actually get your hands on.
 

Astral/H3X

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,395
Well sadly I was too slow in confirming with the seller that I had decided on it, so it looks like someone else is getting it. :(
 

flyover

Member
Oct 26, 2017
596
Ah, too bad. Hopefully, something else'll come up.

Ha! Honestly, I hope they do come out with a 4k version soon. My Sony TV tries to get too clever when upscaling from 720p--it'll only do 1:1 nearest neighbor upscaling from 1080p--so it screws up some edges and scanlines from the Framemeister, depending on colors.
 

Televator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
XRGB-4k needs to be able to scale to integers internally and frame non-integers to the TV. That alone could give a de facto edge over the OSSC in attainable high image quality.
 

Astral/H3X

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,395
Got my gcompsw 8:2 this weekend. It's amazin.
Being able to have all my component inputs hooked up alone is awesome, but then having it output to both my 240p/480i TV and also my CRT Monitor for 480p is GLORIOUS.
 

nomemorial

Member
Oct 27, 2017
194
Simple, stupid question, but does anyone know of any thrift/pawn franchises that still accept/sell CRTs across the board? I never thought it would be this difficult to track down any kind of CRT in my area, but I just scoured half the pawn/thrift shops around and all of them were happy to say they don't take/sell them whatsoever.

Follow-up question, but has anyone had any luck tracking a CRT down outside of the "traditional" means? Any random, off-kilter places you've found one for purchase? I just want a small CRT, nothing crazy, and I can't find anything other than online as of now.
 

RobotVM

Member
Oct 27, 2017
516
Simple, stupid question, but does anyone know of any thrift/pawn franchises that still accept/sell CRTs across the board? I never thought it would be this difficult to track down any kind of CRT in my area, but I just scoured half the pawn/thrift shops around and all of them were happy to say they don't take/sell them whatsoever.

Follow-up question, but has anyone had any luck tracking a CRT down outside of the "traditional" means? Any random, off-kilter places you've found one for purchase? I just want a small CRT, nothing crazy, and I can't find anything other than online as of now.
Salvation Army Thrift stores. I just bought a 13" Trinitron at one. Also, I got a few CRT's off Facebook Marketplace. I am currently looking for a 20" Trinitron myself.
 

Beer Monkey

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,905
If you're patient and keep an eye on Craigslist, FB Marketplace, Offerup you can easily find nice component input consumer TV CRTs cheap anywhere in the USA.

Likewise VGA monitors.

BVMs and PVMs less so.
 

nomemorial

Member
Oct 27, 2017
194
I appreciate the replies! Only one Salvation Army in my area with nothing that even looked like a TV, unfortunately, but I'll keep it in mind that it's a place to check again.

I always forget FB Marketplace exists - actually just searched it and found a few consumer Trinitron sets nearby-ish. Hoping to nab one of those if I find the right one!
 

flyover

Member
Oct 26, 2017
596
Simple, stupid question, but does anyone know of any thrift/pawn franchises that still accept/sell CRTs across the board? I never thought it would be this difficult to track down any kind of CRT in my area, but I just scoured half the pawn/thrift shops around and all of them were happy to say they don't take/sell them whatsoever.
I thought that would be my avenue to finding them, too. But nobody seems to have them, anymore.

My town actually has TV recycling, and when I went by there, they had dozens upon dozens of consumer CRTs. Some nice ones, too. But they won't let you take/buy them. Stinks. Almost have to stake it out and ask people to give you their TV when they drive up.

Good luck with FB Marketplace. Like Beer Monkey said, OfferUp often has good consumer models, too. Often for pretty much nothing, so long as you'll pick it up.
 

Beer Monkey

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,905
Good luck with FB Marketplace. Like Beer Monkey said, OfferUp often has good consumer models, too. Often for pretty much nothing, so long as you'll pick it up.
LetGo is another one like OfferUp. Also eBay searches with the criteria "Within X miles of zip code nnnnn". Ask about local pickup even if they don't offer it in the listing. MAKE OFFER is your friend, too. If somebody has a nice set listed for $100 and accepts offers they will likely take $60 to be rid of it quick.

Persistence and patience is the key. If you want a component input 24" aperture grille CRT (example) *right now* and can find one today you'll probably pay a lot more than if you're willing to check the listings daily for a couple of months.
 

CursedOctopus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
362
Crap, I assumed Goodwill was had crt tvs, but I just came back from one and they're all gone. Luckily my city has an electronics recycling center where you can pick stuff up. I need to hit it in the next couple of weeks. I need a backup 25 inch tube for my arcade machine.
 

apathetic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
829
Crap, I assumed Goodwill was had crt tvs, but I just came back from one and they're all gone. Luckily my city has an electronics recycling center where you can pick stuff up. I need to hit it in the next couple of weeks. I need a backup 25 inch tube for my arcade machine.
Pretty sure goodwill doesn't accept CRTs anymore. For a while too. Also seem to remember stories of them just tossing out/destroying the ones they had when they stopped taking them.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,165
I'm really considering pulling the plug and getting a XRGB-mini. I know it's been put out of production so I need to make my decision soon. But I'm also really inexperienced with any of this stuff and it seems kind of intimidating to set everything up properly lol. Before I jump the gun though, does the thing work well with 4k TV's or is it better suited for 1080p TVs? I have a 4k TCL LED and want to be sure it's actually going to work with it. Also, how is it with N64 and PS2, as those are the two systems I would be using it most for? Are there any other special plugs/cables I need for those two systems besides the stuff needed for the XRGB to begin with (like the SCART adapter and D-terminal stuff). I need a PS2 SCART cable and I believe for the N64 an S cable as only modded N64's allow SCART, right? Anything else?

Also, does it work with the Wii at all?

Lastly, just to be sure, does this thing require any sort of modding of the consoles themselves?

Really don't want to be looking at the blurry mess my old consoles look like for much longer lol. But I definitely don't want to waste a few hundred dollars on something that is not actually going to work for me so let me know if there's any caveats I need to be aware of. Thanks for the help.
 
OP
OP
ShinJohnpv

ShinJohnpv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
654
All of this is answered in the first post but to say it again. It works with every 4k set. It's different in how it does its upscaling than say the OSSC so it always puts out 60hz vs the OSSC which is putting out the native hz of the system which can be weird at times and not all sets accept that. Personally I prefer it over the OSSC for things like the PS2 because as a mostly 480i system, it does a better de-interlacing job. I really dislike the bob deinterlacing that the OSSC does.

You can go scart or component (with d-sub adapter) on the PS2 and you'll be fine. Yes with the N64 if its not modded then the best you'll get out of it is S-Video. It will work just fine with the Wii. While its deinterlacing is fantastic and it shines at 240p content, 480p is not its strong suit. It will still put out a good image, but not as crisp as one its upscalling from 240p.

Also 720p and 1080p are both integer scales to 4k.

If you do order a Framemeister order it from Solaris Japan, do not go on ebay and get ripped off. Solaris is the official reseller from Micomsoft, so outside of buying it used you won't find a better price.

If you're going to run component video into it buy the one with the D-Sub converter for component video.

Also read the first few posts in this thread.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,165
All of this is answered in the first post but to say it again. It works with every 4k set. It's different in how it does its upscaling than say the OSSC so it always puts out 60hz vs the OSSC which is putting out the native hz of the system which can be weird at times and not all sets accept that. Personally I prefer it over the OSSC for things like the PS2 because as a mostly 480i system, it does a better de-interlacing job. I really dislike the bob deinterlacing that the OSSC does.

You can go scart or component (with d-sub adapter) on the PS2 and you'll be fine. Yes with the N64 if its not modded then the best you'll get out of it is S-Video. It will work just fine with the Wii. While its deinterlacing is fantastic and it shines at 240p content, 480p is not its strong suit. It will still put out a good image, but not as crisp as one its upscalling from 240p.

Also 720p and 1080p are both integer scales to 4k.

If you do order a Framemeister order it from Solaris Japan, do not go on ebay and get ripped off. Solaris is the official reseller from Micomsoft, so outside of buying it used you won't find a better price.

If you're going to run component video into it buy the one with the D-Sub converter for component video.

Also read the first few posts in this thread.

Alright cool, I decided to pull the plug today. Excited for it. One last question that I didn't see in the OP- does the power cable that comes with this ok to use on North American wall outlets? I read that Japan and the U.S. have the same plugs but voltages are a little bit different - no issues with the Framemeister without any converters?
 

Fuzzy

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,546
Toronto, Canada
Alright cool, I decided to pull the plug today. Excited for it. One last question that I didn't see in the OP- does the power cable that comes with this ok to use on North American wall outlets? I read that Japan and the U.S. have the same plugs but voltages are a little bit different - no issues with the Framemeister without any converters?
You don't need anything else, it's a 100-240V power supply.
 

Televator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
Pulling the plug = putting an end to something

Pulling the trigger = getting something started

I believe the latter is the phrase you were looking for. It’s... Common Knowledge

Now I’ll stop being an obnoxious pedant. Seriously, congratulations and welcome to the club!
 

RobotVM

Member
Oct 27, 2017
516
Maybe one of you can help. What do I adjust in a Trinitron service menu for a bend on the right bottom of my screen?
 

Televator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
Would connecting my OSSC to my TV via an mCable be a worthwhile investment?
It messes too much with color and gamma which defeats the purpose of OSSC’s great color handling. Plus OSSC has its own smoothing filters that don’t interfere with that. You also cant turn off the processing the cable does. So if you don’t like the effects in certain games, you’ll have to physically change cables.
 

Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,134
It messes too much with color and gamma which defeats the purpose of OSSC’s great color handling. Plus OSSC has its own smoothing filters that don’t interfere with that. You also cant turn off the processing the cable does. So if you don’t like the effects in certain games, you’ll have to physically change cables.
You mean upsample2x, right?
 

flyover

Member
Oct 26, 2017
596
Would connecting my OSSC to my TV via an mCable be a worthwhile investment?
There actually maaaaay be some cases you'd want to do so. But it probably depends on the systems you're using. My experience is mostly with the Framemeister, though, so ymmv.

You likely wouldn't need it for a lot of 2-D 8- and 16-bit games without scanlines. Not as much point in smoothing many NES and Genesis games, though it can be fun.

But for scanlines, the mCable sometimes comes in handy for me--not because of the system or upscaler, but because of my Sony 4k TV. My TV does its own thing (i.e., not 1:1 nearest-neighbor) when upscaling 720p content to 4k. It tries to outsmart the FM's scanlines based on their surrounding colors, and, as a result, sometimes puts them too close together or too far apart. Using the mCable upscales the 720p content to 1080p and keeps the scanlines looking pretty good and evenly spaced--unlike the FM itself at 1080p. My TV does nearest-neighbor for 1080p to 4k, so it looks pretty great. A little soft, but nice scanlines. (That said, the OSSC's scanlines already work better out of the box, for me.)

I do like the way the mCable makes 3D games look, especially PS1 games or 480i PS2 and Wii games from the FM. Same for 480p Wii component through the OSSC. But I would be interested to see how the mCable affects the OSSC's bob deinterlacing (and its flicker) on 480i content. Might be an improvement! Gonna have to try it myself, sometime.

Edit: Removed video link to some guy who sucks and that everyone hates!
 
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