Retro AV Thread |OT| RGB, CRTs, Upscalers, and More

Beer Monkey

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,933
SNES has a jitter that combined with the 60.08hz refresh rate causes incompatibility issues with some displays.
 

angelgrievous

Member
Nov 8, 2017
4,391
Ohio
Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask. I don't want to make a new thread just for this question.

I was wondering if Wii games would look better running on a Wii U hooked up to my 4K TV or on the Wii hooked up to a trinitron via component cables? I'm wanting to play a few Wii games tonight and want the best picture.

Thanks.
 

Televator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,172
Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask. I don't want to make a new thread just for this question.

I was wondering if Wii games would look better running on a Wii U hooked up to my 4K TV or on the Wii hooked up to a trinitron via component cables? I'm wanting to play a few Wii games tonight and want the best picture.

Thanks.
Wii and trinitron
 

Beer Monkey

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,933
480p CRT is the *ideal* way to play Wii games natively IMO.

OSSC line2x to 960p is the best way to play natively on a flat screen TV.

Dolphin can be amazing but that's emulation and it's still not 100% compatible.
 
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ShinJohnpv

ShinJohnpv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
790
Is frameister still the best upscaler
It depends on your needs and situation. Right now its still better at deinterlacing than the other options IMHO, it has the greatest compatibility with TVs and Receivers, and supports Composite, and S-Video. The current OSSC has better color handling, no lag, but bob deinterlacing is terrible (least to me), has much greater compatibility issues, and only supports RGB, Component, and I believe VGA.

It really is 6 of one and half a dozen of another. The OSSC pro is definitely going to change some things, and shake some stuff up. We'll have to wait till its out to see how it ends up handling deinterlacing, and how its compatibility is. I do wish they had gone with including Composite, and S-Video right off the bat though, instead of requiring an input add on board.

Not everything has an RGB or Component mod, and some stuff I don't know if we'll ever see one for them.

That's my personal take on things though.
 

asmith906

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,332
It depends on your needs and situation. Right now its still better at deinterlacing than the other options IMHO, it has the greatest compatibility with TVs and Receivers, and supports Composite, and S-Video. The current OSSC has better color handling, no lag, but bob deinterlacing is terrible (least to me), has much greater compatibility issues, and only supports RGB, Component, and I believe VGA.

It really is 6 of one and half a dozen of another. The OSSC pro is definitely going to change some things, and shake some stuff up. We'll have to wait till its out to see how it ends up handling deinterlacing, and how its compatibility is. I do wish they had gone with including Composite, and S-Video right off the bat though, instead of requiring an input add on board.

Not everything has an RGB or Component mod, and some stuff I don't know if we'll ever see one for them.

That's my personal take on things though.
I'm really looking mainly for ps2/xbox/sega saturn on a 4k tv.
 
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ShinJohnpv

ShinJohnpv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
790
OSSC seems to have better compatibility with 4K tvs, but PS2 is going to be mostly 480i. So it depends on how you feel about bob deinterlacing. Personally for me I far prefer the Framemeister's deinterlacing. Xbox is going to have a fair share of 480i stuff too but I believe more of it is going to be 480p which the OSSC handles better. Saturn is 240p and both handle it great, though OSSC with less lag.
 

Televator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,172
The OSSC Pro could potentially match or best the FM in deinterlacing. It remains to be seen.

The og Xbox is 100% 480p after a softmod, which the OSSC Pro should easily integer scale to 960p in a 1080p window. It’ll surely have better picture quality for 480p sources than the FM
 

Oldmario

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,084
this PS1HDMI sounds interesting but i found a post from september mentioning that the serial port needed to be removed, is this the same case now or did they find a work around for that? the PSIO uses the serial port so it's a either or situation
 
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ShinJohnpv

ShinJohnpv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
790
this PS1HDMI sounds interesting but i found a post from september mentioning that the serial port needed to be removed, is this the same case now or did they find a work around for that? the PSIO uses the serial port so it's a either or situation
Different ports. The PSIO Uses the Parallel port not the serial port. It was only used for the PS Link Cable.

You can see them labeled in this image. The port the PSIO Uses is the big one that was eventually removed.

 

Oldmario

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,084
Quick search online and it looks like the oem Sony cable is about the same price. Any reason not to go that route?
i actually have component cables but i'm looking to get a new tv and none of them seem to have component only composite and my reciever only does same port in and out so it doesn't do component conversion either
 

Wumbo64

Member
Oct 27, 2017
272
Hello, I am so glad I found this thread. I had a question that is probably decently common.

I got a Sony PVM and an older low-latency HDTV that both have component cables. Most folk are using Scart cables now to get RGB quality out of their old consoles because it is a good deal more affordable than all the limited availability specialty component cables. However, my PVM and that HDTV both use component.

What is a good or typically used SCART to component converter? Preferably with audio, not just the 3 video colors/ports.

Thanks!
 

Fuzzy

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
8,166
Toronto
Hello, I am so glad I found this thread. I had a question that is probably decently common.

I got a Sony PVM and an older low-latency HDTV that both have component cables. Most folk are using Scart cables now to get RGB quality out of their old consoles because it is a good deal more affordable than all the limited availability specialty component cables. However, my PVM and that HDTV both use component.

What is a good or typically used SCART to component converter? Preferably with audio, not just the 3 video colors/ports.

Thanks!
 

Teiresias

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,767
Anyone here with an OSSC and an OLED TV and use BFI when gaming on older consoles? Tonight I decided to play some SNES and some Zelda:LTTP and decided to play around with the BFI setting on the TV. I turned it on and then upped the OLED Light setting to 100 (from the 53 it's usually at in my calibrated SDR modes) to compensate for the brightness loss and it looks really nice to me.

Now, LTTP isn't really something that suffers horribly from motion blur due to its art style, but I then switched over to my Dreamcast and threw in Phantasy Star Online and in the Forest level, the difference is really apparent on textures and blurriness with BFI off and on.

I think I can play this way constantly so long as this isn't going to hurt the TV. I can't see why it would though, OLED Light is at 100% in all the HDR modes anyway.
 

Vimes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,629
Anyone here with an OSSC and an OLED TV and use BFI when gaming on older consoles? Tonight I decided to play some SNES and some Zelda:LTTP and decided to play around with the BFI setting on the TV. I turned it on and then upped the OLED Light setting to 100 (from the 53 it's usually at in my calibrated SDR modes) to compensate for the brightness loss and it looks really nice to me.

Now, LTTP isn't really something that suffers horribly from motion blur due to its art style, but I then switched over to my Dreamcast and threw in Phantasy Star Online and in the Forest level, the difference is really apparent on textures and blurriness with BFI off and on.

I think I can play this way constantly so long as this isn't going to hurt the TV. I can't see why it would though, OLED Light is at 100% in all the HDR modes anyway.
Not only might I try this, but you just made me realize I was retroactively starting to think that nintendo had dimmed Wii Virtual Console games in the same way they infamously did on the WU, because of how dim the OSSC is. The games still look great, but I bet they'd look a lot better with some tweaking.

Thanks for this post, you got some wheels turning in my head.
 

Teiresias

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,767
Not only might I try this, but you just made me realize I was retroactively starting to think that nintendo had dimmed Wii Virtual Console games in the same way they infamously did on the WU, because of how dim the OSSC is. The games still look great, but I bet they'd look a lot better with some tweaking.

Thanks for this post, you got some wheels turning in my head.
Well, to be clear, the OSSC wasn't making it dimmer in my situation, turning on BFI on my TV made it dimmer. However, video gain for all the color channels (and an overall video gain too I believe) can be adjusted on the OSSC to make the output brighter if you want regardless of what your set is doing.
 

Vimes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,629
Well, to be clear, the OSSC wasn't making it dimmer in my situation, turning on BFI on my TV made it dimmer. However, video gain for all the color channels (and an overall video gain too I believe) can be adjusted on the OSSC to make the output brighter if you want regardless of what your set is doing.
I really need to update the firmware on mine to find out what it's truly capable of. I'm still poking around using the display on the front of the unit and don't yet have access to the OSD.

Until I started this N64 mod, I've been more or less happy with how it works out of the box with my GC/PS2/Wii.

Edit: It doesn't help that I lost the power supply and need to find a new one that won't fry it.
 

Teiresias

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,767
I really need to update the firmware on mine to find out what it's truly capable of. I'm still poking around using the display on the front of the unit and don't yet have access to the OSD.

Until I started this N64 mod, I've been more or less happy with how it works out of the box with my GC/PS2/Wii.

Edit: It doesn't help that I lost the power supply and need to find a new one that won't fry it.
You don't gain any new functionality from having the OSD aside from the OSD itself. It's merely displaying what's on the front LCD on your TV screen. If my work network didn't block the OSSC wiki site I could point you to the setting and where they are in the menus, but alas, I can't right now.
 

Vimes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,629
Hardest part of the Worthington N64 mod is done. Think I'm done for the day, my hands are shaky now.



 
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ShinJohnpv

ShinJohnpv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
790
For anyone looking Castlemania games seems to have Virtual Taps back in stock

 

ibrahima

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,561
The new 'My Life in Gaming' video is worth a watch.


Serves as a nice introduction for those looking to get their head around some of the common areas around playing old games in the modern era.

Looking forward to where they take the series from here.
 

Vimes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,629
impressive! How long have you been soldering for?
Thanks! I've been repairing my own gear since I was a teenager, my dad is in the sciences and builds his own instruments so I had a good teacher.

I also have been doing stained glass as a hobby for a long time, which also involves soldering, albeit with quite a bit less precision.

This is easily the hardest job I've tried though, and required both buying some new gear, and practicing on some discarded PCBs with similar chips. It really exposed some flaws in my technique. Testing with a multimeter, I don't appear to have bridged anything, but I had quite the time with the (poorly) tinned wire tips fanning out when i applied pressure to them with the iron.
 

Fuzzy

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
8,166
Toronto
The new 'My Life in Gaming' video is worth a watch.
Yeah and I should've linked to the thread in here since this has become "main" retro thread even though that's what the RetroEra OT was supposed to be.

 

SG-17

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,439
So I wanted to get a low-cost/low-fuss setup going for my consoles and wanted some opinions.

I have an unmodded NES, SNES, Genesis Model 2, unmodded N64, PSOne, PS2, GameCube.

I was thinking of going:
NES - Composite
SNES - HD Retrovision
Genesis - HD Retrovision
N64 - S-Video
All going into a RetroTINK 2xPro and then into an HDMI hub.

As well:
PSOne - RAD2X (or maybe an HD Retrovision into the RetroTINK depending)
GameCube - Carby

Both into the HDMI hub.

And then the HDMI hub into an MCable MClassic and then into a 4KTV.

The big outlier is the PS2. I do have official component cables for it but AFAIK there is no good HDMI solution, only compromises. If I sent it the RetroTINK or got a second RAD2X I couldn't use progressive scan features on games.
 
Oct 27, 2017
411
Thanks! I've been repairing my own gear since I was a teenager, my dad is in the sciences and builds his own instruments so I had a good teacher.

I also have been doing stained glass as a hobby for a long time, which also involves soldering, albeit with quite a bit less precision.

This is easily the hardest job I've tried though, and required both buying some new gear, and practicing on some discarded PCBs with similar chips. It really exposed some flaws in my technique. Testing with a multimeter, I don't appear to have bridged anything, but I had quite the time with the (poorly) tinned wire tips fanning out when i applied pressure to them with the iron.
Wow. I’m glad you said that. I desperately need to mod my N64 to better integrate it with my setup. It needs component out. S-video to Retrotink2x to OSSC is just not cutting it! As I have no soldering experience I’ll just pay someone. Worthington’s RGB mod supports component out, right? And it works with any N64 model as well?
 

Vimes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,629
Wow. I’m glad you said that. I desperately need to mod my N64 to better integrate it with my setup. It needs component out. S-video to Retrotink2x to OSSC is just not cutting it! As I have no soldering experience I’ll just pay someone. Worthington’s RGB mod supports component out, right? And it works with any N64 model as well?
Here's the page https://etim.net.au/n64rgb/

According to him, the supported cables are PAL SNES RGB SCART, and Gamecube RGB SCART. (This is similar in quality to component if I'm not mistaken.) Fortunately for me, I picked up what I believe to be the latter when I was in australia a long time ago.

It seems there are some places that will do the installation for you. I think you may need to provide them with the chip though, and specify which cable you have.

I'm going to be using it with an OSSC, so I'll post updates in here once I finish the remaining wiring.

I also ordered an extra switch he offered, to toggle the added de-blur feature the chip has (without de-blur on left, with de-blur on the right):


 

Leeway

Member
Oct 25, 2017
432
Vancouver, BC
So I was just looking to get an OSSC and saw that the Pro was announced a few weeks ago.

So I’m guessing it would make more sense for me to wait? I’ll mainly be using it for PS1/Dreamcast/PS2/GameCube/Wii on a 4K Sony tv. Hearing about how the current OSSC handles 480i makes me think to wait. I’m just a bit unsure about how hard it’ll be to preorder or get waitlisted for.
 

Fuzzy

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
8,166
Toronto
So I wanted to get a low-cost/low-fuss setup going for my consoles and wanted some opinions.

I have an unmodded NES, SNES, Genesis Model 2, unmodded N64, PSOne, PS2, GameCube.

I was thinking of going:
NES - Composite
SNES - HD Retrovision
Genesis - HD Retrovision
N64 - S-Video
All going into a RetroTINK 2xPro and then into an HDMI hub.

As well:
PSOne - RAD2X (or maybe an HD Retrovision into the RetroTINK depending)
GameCube - Carby

Both into the HDMI hub.

And then the HDMI hub into an MCable MClassic and then into a 4KTV.

The big outlier is the PS2. I do have official component cables for it but AFAIK there is no good HDMI solution, only compromises. If I sent it the RetroTINK or got a second RAD2X I couldn't use progressive scan features on games.
Only problem I can see is that you should only have one input (composite/s-video/component) connected to the RetroTINK2x at the same time so you'll have to unplug whatever you're not using. They say you can technically have everything plugged in but they warn to make sure to never power on multiple consoles at the same time.

Important safety information
Please observe the following safety precautions when using your RetroTINK 2X.

Connect only one input at once – Please connect only one input to your RetroTINK 2X at a time. If you need to connect more than one device (e.g a composite and S-Video source), ensure that only one connected device is powered on at any one time.

Also, the pro shares the luma connection (green cable) with composite video so you'll have to plug/unplug your NES whenever you want to play that. But since you didn't mention a component switch I guess you'll be plugging/unplugging things anyway.
 

eEK!

Member
Dec 25, 2018
18
So I was just looking to get an OSSC and saw that the Pro was announced a few weeks ago.

So I’m guessing it would make more sense for me to wait? I’ll mainly be using it for PS1/Dreamcast/PS2/GameCube/Wii on a 4K Sony tv. Hearing about how the current OSSC handles 480i makes me think to wait. I’m just a bit unsure about how hard it’ll be to preorder or get waitlisted for.
Assuming the pro's production time is longer than the OSSC due to the increased complexity, it probably won't be available to pre-order for several months and then wouldn't ship till later in the year, that said it does sound like it'll be noticably better at 480i, so if you can wait it would be worth it.

Personally I'm happy with the OSSC's deinterlacing, as I play on a small monitor, but I'd imagine it could be annoying on a large 4k screen.
 

SG-17

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,439
Only problem I can see is that you should only have one input (composite/s-video/component) connected to the RetroTINK2x at the same time so you'll have to unplug whatever you're not using. They say you can technically have everything plugged in but they warn to make sure to never power on multiple consoles at the same time.



Also, the pro shares the luma connection (green cable) with composite video so you'll have to plug/unplug your NES whenever you want to play that. But since you didn't mention a component switch I guess you'll be plugging/unplugging things anyway.
I was going to use a component switch and passive cable joiners to have everything connected.

Basically SNES/Genesis/PS2 into component on the switch and NES into the composite, cable joiner to join the Green and Yellow outs to both go into green, then two joiners for the audio cables to join the switch and N64 audio.
 

Fuzzy

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
8,166
Toronto
I was going to use a component switch and passive cable joiners to have everything connected.

Basically SNES/Genesis/PS2 into component on the switch and NES into the composite, cable joiner to join the Green and Yellow outs to both go into green, then two joiners for the audio cables to join the switch and N64 audio.
I assume you mean RCA y-adapters. I don't know if they'd give you any trouble since you'd be backfeeding the consoles you're not using with the ones you are. It wouldn't be a problem with the HDRV SNES and Genesis cables because they have specific circuitry in them to prevent this but the N64 (audio) and NES (both audio and composite) would have no such protection. I don't know how much, if any, damage can occur but it'll make audio lower than it should be.

YPbPr Component Switchbox Alternatives

A unique feature of our SNES & Genesis YPbPr cables is that they are designed such that if you "split" the YPbPr input of a TV using Y-adapters, you can connect two HD Retrovision cables to the same port without degradation. This effectively acts like an auto-switching function. You cannot have both consoles powered on at the same time or you'll get garbage on the screen. Also, do not mix a mono audio device (e.g. Master System) and stereo audio device on the same split, otherwise you will get crosstalk on the stereo device. For caveats with PlayStation consoles, please see our PlayStation page.

IMPORTANT: This method only works properly with HD Retrovision SNES & Genesis YPbPr cables (including adapters) and not with other standard YPbPr devices. Also not supported are the HD Retrovision PS2/PS3 and Wii/Wii U YPbPr cables.

Something like the gcompsw can have component and composite sources plugged in at the same time so only the N64 would be on its own.
 
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SG-17

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,439
I assume you mean RCA y-adapters. I don't know if they'd give you any trouble since you'd be backfeeding the consoles you're not using with the ones you are. It wouldn't be a problem with the HDRV SNES and Genesis cables because they have specific circuitry in them to prevent this but the N64 (audio) and NES (both audio and composite) would have no such protection. I don't know how much, if any, damage can occur but it'll make audio lower than it should be.




Something like the gcompsw can have component and composite sources plugged in at the same time so only the N64 would be on its own.
Hmm... I didn't realize there could be issues with y-adapters. I currently have my SNES and N64 hookup up via S-Video y-adapter to my old LCD and haven't had issues.

Maybe I'll get an RCA audio 2-1 switch and just manually swap the yellow and green then. Or do you think I could plug my NES into the green of the switch instead of the yellow? It doesn't process the signal, just transmits it so it should work that way, right?
 
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Fuzzy

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
8,166
Toronto
Hmm... I didn't realize there could be issues with y-adapters. I currently have my SNES and N64 hookup up via S-Video y-adapter to my old LCD and haven't had issues.

Maybe I'll get an RCA audio 2-1 switch and just manually swap the yellow and green then. Or do you think I could plug my NES into the green of the switch instead of the yellow? It doesn't process the signal, just transmits it so it should work that way, right?
Yeah, you'd be able to use the switch to do both component and composite into the RetroTINK. If the switch is automatic then you'd have to see what it uses to detect the input. If it's a manual switch then it doesn't matter at all.
 
Oct 27, 2017
411
Here's the page https://etim.net.au/n64rgb/

According to him, the supported cables are PAL SNES RGB SCART, and Gamecube RGB SCART. (This is similar in quality to component if I'm not mistaken.) Fortunately for me, I picked up what I believe to be the latter when I was in australia a long time ago.

It seems there are some places that will do the installation for you. I think you may need to provide them with the chip though, and specify which cable you have.

I'm going to be using it with an OSSC, so I'll post updates in here once I finish the remaining wiring.

I also ordered an extra switch he offered, to toggle the added de-blur feature the chip has (without de-blur on left, with de-blur on the right):


Thanks for that. I really don’t want to add more SCART cables in to my setup. I have a nice component switch that does a great job, and I’ve been really happy with HD Retrovision products (versus the questionable quality of some SCART manufacturers).
I may wait for something pre-modded with Borti’s Advanced RGB mod. Unfortunately neither of my N64s are compatible with the mod Voultar sells and installs, and the cost for an unmodified console in decent shape these days is over $100. Even at $300-$350, a pre-modded N64 with RGB/component out seems like a good deal.
 
Oct 27, 2017
411
I am looking for advice on connecting to an NEC MultiSync FE700 VGA computer monitor. I have YpbPr component cables (HD Retrovision) for several systems (PS2, Wii, Saturn), Carby Component for GameCube, and SCART RGB for Dreamcast & PS1. I also have a MiSTer with an IO board, as well as Analogue Super Nt and Mega Sg.

Any and all suggestions are welcome!
 
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ShinJohnpv

ShinJohnpv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
790
I am looking for advice on connecting to an NEC MultiSync FE700 VGA computer monitor. I have YpbPr component cables (HD Retrovision) for several systems (PS2, Wii, Saturn), Carby Component for GameCube, and SCART RGB for Dreamcast & PS1. I also have a MiSTer with an IO board, as well as Analogue Super Nt and Mega Sg.

Any and all suggestions are welcome!
For anything that is 240p or 480i you're going to have to have it line doubled or deinterlaced to 480p at least. So maybe something like the retrotink2x or OSSC, though I think they both only output HDMI, so you would then need a VGA to HDMI converter in the line. For 480p component sources I believe you should just need a component to VGA adapter. I can say that 480p GameCube games look amazing on a VGA monitor. Back in the day I had a second pair of component cables modded into VGA cables for the GameCube and would play my 480p games that way. Dreamcast actually has VGA boxes that would support directly going into a VGA monitor so maybe look into that. Analogue NT, and Mega SG, you might be able to set them to 720p and use an HDMI to VGA converter, otherwise it would be setting them to 480p and then doing the HDMI to VGA converter.

I've never done a set up like that and I'm just kind of spitballing/guessing here so maybe someone with similar set up as what you want could chime in.

At least for the PS2, Saturn, PS1, you could do the 240p/480i stuff to the Tink/OSSC and then hdmi to VGA to the monitor. Some PS2, I believe all Wii and most Gamecube games support 480p and with component you should be able to do a component to VGA adapter. That monitor supports up to 1280 x 1024, so you MIGHT beable to get 240p line 3x or 4x into it, and MAYBE 480p line 2x into it. Analog stuff tends to be a bit more loosey goosey with exact standards. That said though I don't have an OSSC, or that monitor so I can't say for certain if those will definitely work into them.
 

eEK!

Member
Dec 25, 2018
18
I am looking for advice on connecting to an NEC MultiSync FE700 VGA computer monitor. I have YpbPr component cables (HD Retrovision) for several systems (PS2, Wii, Saturn), Carby Component for GameCube, and SCART RGB for Dreamcast & PS1. I also have a MiSTer with an IO board, as well as Analogue Super Nt and Mega Sg.

Any and all suggestions are welcome!
Looks like a quality monitor, but it won't quite work with what you've got, the MiSTer should be fine, as the IO boards have VGA out and the Dreamcast could work if you got a VGA box (behar bros make the best ones, but there's alot of cheaper options) everything else will need converting which ShinJohnpv has already said more about than I know.

I'll also mention that the multi sync name usually means that it can accept 240p (15Hz) images, as computers like the Amiga used this resolution, so you may not need a line doubler, but you will need something to convert the signal to VGA.