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Laevateinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,137
Chicago
While early manufacturers such as Apple, IBM and Commodore were battling to assert themselves as the standard for personal computing in the west, the important and booming market in Japan was largely ignored. With limited resources, these machines couldn't do many of the functions that a savvy Japanese consumer would require: things like display Japanese characters, play Space Invaders, or, perhaps most importantly, display high-quality hentai. Seeing a void, Japan's dominant computer manufacturers developed a phenomenal set of machines.

NEC PC-88 & PC-98

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NEC, most known to western gamers as the maker of the TurboGrafx (PC-Engine) or, perhaps as the maker of the Dreamcast's GPU, quickly asserted itself as the dominant force in Japanese PCs with its PC-88 and PC-98 class of computers. First released in 1981, with a CPU similar to the one found in the Sega Master System, the PC-88 was not much of a gaming computer with anywhere from 64-192 kb of RAM, a limited color palette and no hardware scrolling capabilities. With a mix of market timing, aggressive TV marketing and a proprietary kanji chipset, the NEC's PC-88 and the higher end PC-98 series became the de facto standard for Japanese computers until the mid-90s. Despite this, it's sadly somewhat difficult to find PC-98 hardware and software (especially software that isn't on the R18 floor)

The model I have (seen above) is supposedly a pretty good model to have but I am only able to get one title to work on it and it's a pretty bad ecchi Street Fighter clone. Controller support on these computers is barely a thing so the majority of the games for it are traditional mouse and keyboard style PC titles. You are most likely to come across text adventures or role playing games similar to the Ultima series. It is home to a fair amount of other types of games as well though with many famous Japanese developers such as Falcom and even Nintendo (via Hudson) releasing software. In terms of gaming software, it is probably most well known nowadays as the home of the Touhou Project.

Despite being primarily a business and porn machine, I've grown quite fond of it due to the artistic output the machine's developers produced. A quick visit to the Retro Cityscapes thread is all you need to see why.

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System Information
Special thanks to Redneckerz for informing me about this awesome site that has a wealth of info about the PC-98 including its System Menu and the graphics systems in the various models.

General information and differences between the PC-98 and Western PCs

Notable Software
  • The Touhou Project
  • The Ys series
  • Xanadu
  • Super Mario Special
  • Snatcher
  • Policenauts

Also, I'd like to give a special shoutout to the Brandish 2 translation project which will soon be released.

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Okay, I'm willing to throw away hundreds of dollars, what do I need to know?

I've found, unfortunately, that a lot of software released for these machines is available on 5-1/4 inch floppy only. For this reason, I am hoping to rectify this by purchasing a PC-9801 to supplement my Ce2. It is also possible to get an IDE-CF or IDE-SD converter and load a hard disk image although I have yet to get this to work. I really wish I had more time with this machine because I have Policenauts sitting in my shelves staring at me. Also, as more of a traditional PC than a game machine, make sure you get a keyboard. It's pretty useless without one.

Sharp X1 and X68000

Sharp released a beautiful fucking computer in the X1 to compete with NEC's PC-88 but it never took off. The primary draw of these machines, according to Wikipedia, was more efficient use of RAM and a monitor that could also function as a television.

52058SharpX1.jpg


It wasn't until they decided to set themselves apart and release the best fucking computer of all time that they really took off. I give you a picture of my X68000 complete with a nasty cable mess (forgive me, I moved it to a different room and I'm struggling to set it up nicely).

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Years ago I saw the Gamesack X68000 video and, specifically, Cotton's dancing keyboard and my life was changed. I decided I needed to actually finish graduate school so I could have a nice job and spend all of my money on this thing. It was definitely the right decision.

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If you get one, go for the XVI model and -- FOR THE LOVE OF ODIN -- get one that comes with a SCSI drive so you don't have to figure out how to get a replacement cable. It features a 10 MHz Motorola 68000 CPU (similar to the Sega Genesis) that can be, with a switch, set to a blazing 16 MHz, 2 MB of RAM expandable up to 12 MB, two expansion ports, two sexy towers and to go with two monstrous 5-1/4 floppy drives.

The X68000 was primarily marketed towards power users and arcade gamers. Because of this it is still an amazing machine to own. While you probably won't want to use it anymore for art, by purchasing a MIDI expansion board, you can connect it to a GM or LA synthesis MIDI module and massively enhance music for a lot of your titles or even do compositions which I hope to begin doing soon.

Many famous Japanese developers of actively supported the X68000: most notably Capcom and Konami. Capcom even used the X68000 as the development hardware for their CP-System I and II arcade boards. You may notice that the specs for the CP-System II are nearly identical to the XVI.

I've rightly decided to throw common sense and my money away and buy one of these, what do I need?

The Sharp X68000 uses the MSX controller standard which is nearly identical what was used by Atari and Sega with some pins changed. You can spend a lot of money to buy a shitty MSX controller but I would recommend getting an adapter and using a Genesis arcade stick. If at all possible, get the Capcom Fighter Power Stick adapter since the ones you'll find on ebay vary in quality. These can be pretty expensive and it's unlikely you'll get lucky like me and have it included in your copy of Street Fighter.

As I mentioned earlier, you'll want a SCSI cable. The reason for this is so that you can get a SCSI to SD-Card converter and download a HD image. Having an operating system installed will massively improve your quality of life so that you don't have to worry about juggling floppies that (I shudder to think about it) might not last forever.

MIDI!!! While the X68000 uses FM sound like the Genesis which is awesome, many titles released for it take advantage of MIDI modules as well. I recommend keeping an eye out for a MIDI expansion card (hopefully one that uses the real MIDI cable standard and not some weird bullshit proprietary port) to take advantage of this. I just got one and it's phenomenal. Check out superdeadite on Youtube. If you go this route, you'll want both a Roland MT-32 and a SC-55.

While not as necessary as with the PC-98, you'll also want to get a keyboard -- or a X68000->USB keyboard adapter -- so that you can use the OS and a few titles.

RAM!!!!: 2MB is great for most titles but if you want to load them off the hard disk the system needs to load everything into the system RAM and you will not be able to play much with only the default amount. Good luck getting a RAM expansion. 6MB should be enough but you might as well go higher if you can. I've never ran into any issues with 8MB total (2MB on-board + 6MB expansion).

Technical Information
Both of these are great resources that will have everything you'd need about the X68000

Gamesx This is basically an encyclopedia on the X68000.

NFG Games X68000 technical info and screens page


Software
There's really too much to mention but here's some titles I play a lot. All of these titles that have arcade versions are nearly or completely identical to the real thing. It's also a fantastic machine for shoot-em-ups. Paging davidwhangchoi.
  • Cotton
  • Akumajou Dracula (Castlevania)
  • Final Fight
  • Street Fighter 2'
  • Gradius
  • Parodius Da
  • A weird version of Ys
  • Daimakaimura

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MSX

This section has been copied from Foobarry81's MSX thread on some other website. I'm looking forward to his input on specific titles :)

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Developed by Microsoft and ASCII Corporation in an attempt to create unified standards for home computers, the MSX* was the paramount 8-bit home computer architecture of the 1980s in Japan. A long list of manufacturers were involved in the project, including Sony, Philips, Sanyo, Toshiba, Panasonic, Casio, Pioneer, JVC, Samsung and Mitsubishi, and each one of them released their own take on MSX computing. Roughly 5 million of these 8-bit machines were sold on the Japanese market in between 1983 and 1995. The MSX was not only successful in Japan however. It was also a leading platform in countries such as Russia, Brazil, Spain, Argentina and the Netherlands. It never took off in the US or UK however, and thus failed to become the worldwide standard.

The Holy Grail

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The Philips NMS 8280, a high end MSX2 system featuring 2 floppy drives.

During its lifetime the MSX standard evolved, which resulted in 4 different generations: MSX, MSX2, MSX2+ and MSX Turbo-R. A fifth generation, the MSX3, has been in development, but never came into existence. All the newer generations were backwards compatible with their predecessors. The last generation, the MSX Turbo-R, was only produced by Panasonic and only released in Japan. It is regarded as the Holy Grail of the MSX collector nowadays (and therefore quite expensive). Though this is mainly because it's rare, not so much because of the added value to for instance games.

If you don't own an MSX system yet and this thread got you interested, but you find it difficult to pick one of the many MSXs on the second hand market, you might want to check out Noisepurge's buyer's guide here.

Gaming peripherals

While you can play all MSX games with (the arrow keys on) the keyboard, you might also want to look into getting a joystick/gamepad for it. Especially for multiplayer gaming, these come in handy. It might be a bit hard nowadays to get a good and working joystick though.

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Games for MSX systems were released on cassette, floppy disk and cartridge. To play the cassette games, you will be needing a cassette player peripheral (and a lot of patience, because of the huge loading times). Not all MSX systems feature a floppy drive, so if you want to play any of the floppy disk games, you might want to take that into account as well.

(*) The meaning of the acronym is subject to debate. It could be MicroSoft eXtended, or Machines with Software eXchangeability, or weirdly enough it could've been named after the MX missile (a US ballistic missile).


peAmSM1.jpg


SNAKE?! SNAAAAKE!!!!

Before the NES/Famicom became a true juggernaut in Japan/the world and consequently found its place in the heart of many a GAFer, the MSX was thé platform for major Japanese developers such as Konami and Hudson Soft (RIP) to develop and release their games for. As a result some great franchises in gaming were initially established on the MSX: Aleste, Zanac, Bomberman, Penguin Adventure, Eggerland (probably better known as Adventures of Lolo), Parodius, F1 Spirit and Puyo Puyo.

The most notable "MSX original series" is without a doubt the Metal Gear franchise, which had 2 installments on the platform, Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake.

What is a man whip?

Several other great game franchises had installments (which were often not simply ports, but unique versions with distinguishing features) on the system: Contra, Dragon Quest, Dragon Slayer, Final Fantasy, Gradius/Nemesis (and Salamander), R-Type, Wizardry, Xak and Ys. Also Kojima-san's cult hit Snatcher and its spin-off SD Snatcher were released on MSX.

Most notable among these is Vampire Killer. Released just one month after the original Castlevania for Famicom/NES, this game was developed simultaneously by Konami. It thus shares most of the backgrounds, music and enemies. Contrary to Castlevania (Famicom) however, Vampire Killer has a much more non-linear design, similar to the first Metroid, which was released in the same year (1986). As such it was the first true Metroidvania style game in the Castlevania franchise. Vampire Killer already contained several unique features such as merchants and hidden keys to doors and chests, that were only introduced on Nintendo systems in Castlevania 2 and later in Symphony of the Night.


Sources: Wikipedia , Splash Wave Youtube channel

Fujitsu

Fujitsu is kind of an also-ran of Japanese computer manufacturers. They initially released the FM-7 but there's no reason to care about that unless you're weird. Following that, they released the more notable FM Towns and later the consolized FM Towns Marty.

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I really like the way this machine looks. What's especially interesting about it is that it's an entirely CD-based machine probably much earlier than any other PC in the world. While it is a great gaming and multimedia PC, it never quite hit the market as well as the X68000 had. It's games are also expensive as fuck, which is why I've never actually used mine yet.

That said, it was a 32-bit machine with pretty good specs sporting a 386 up to a Pentium anywhere between 16 and 100 MHz. It included a higher quality version of the FM sound chip used in the Genesis while also supporting Redbook CD Audio and similar graphics capabilities to the X68000.

Interestingly, the FM Towns is widely sought after for its version of the Ultima VI which included full English voice acting.

I don't really know what to recommend for this because I'm terrified by the prices. I suppose I could try out some titles through less scrupulous means but that would feel dirty (and I'm too lazy). Hopefully I get around to playing with this machine soon though. I'm super interested in seeing what it's capable of.

It uses the same cables for video and gamepad as the X68000 so if you get one you're set for the other. I think it might be better to get the Marty if you just want it for gameplay especially since the GDEmu guy is thinking about building a drive replacement for it.

Displays

Most Japanese PCs released in the late 80s and later used a 15 pin cable for their displays that is similar to VGA but not directly compatible. Furthermore, most games' resolutions will be be 15 KHz, 24 KHz or a non-standard version of 31 KHz (e.g. 640x400). So, if you want to actually use your new expensive toy, you have two options: go all the way and buy a Japanese tri-sync monitor or get a VGA adapter and connect it to an OSSC. Given these options, I recommend not torturing yourself too much and just getting an OSSC. Most Japanese monitors are only 13 inches and you won't enjoy playing the games as much as you should this way.

Floppy Emulators

Floppy emulators are a thing and I plan on buying some to play around with in the near future. Looking forward to updating this thread next year so nobody can read about my (hopefully) success.

A really cool video from British TV about computer shopping in the Japan during the 80s

Check it out

Great! How do I buy this stuff

While you'll occasionally find some luck using eBay, the absolute best way to buy retro Japanese PC stuff is directly from Japan. You don't have to go to Japan for it (but you should!), instead, you can just use Yahoo Auctions coupled with a proxy service like Buyee. Oftentimes, you'll find rare things or things you've never heard of for great prices that way. I can't recommend it enough except that by recommending it to you, I run the risk of you becoming a competitor in which case please don't shop on Yahoo Auctions.

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Note: check out NFG Games forum for more discussion on weird Japanese computers.
 
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Sinople

Member
Oct 27, 2017
312
Wow, thanks for the comprehensive thread. Not sure there'll be much activity though...
As for me, for as much as I wish to own a PC-98 I just can't afford one so I use Project Egg or emulation for my retro J/CRPG fix.
 
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Laevateinn

Laevateinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,137
Chicago
Wow, thanks for the comprehensive thread. Not sure there'll be much activity though...
As for me, for as much as I wish to own a PC-98 I just can't afford one so I use Project Egg or emulation for my retro J/CRPG fix.

Yeah, I didn't make this expecting a community. I just figured we needed a place where weirdos could share information here. The old site had a few MSX people but I think with as obscure this stuff is, it's probably best to put it all in one place. Hopefully there will be a couple other people who are interested who post every now and then. I'd love to hear about the games people like and what's worked since this is not something many of us would have encountered as kids.

As for the PC-98, you're right, emulation is probably the better choice when it comes to PC-98 RPGs. You don't have to deal with figuring out how to get the hardware working properly. I just prefer having the real thing and am not a Windows user so I've never gone that route. Any obscure ones that you've particularly liked?

The PC-98 is funny because if you look at ebay they try to sell them for hundreds or even thousands of dollars but on Yahoo auctions you'll regularly see them sell for under a hundred. That's actually how I got mine, I just randomly bid 8000 yen and woke up having to pay shipping. I think shipping ended up costing more than the system itself. Some of the games can be pretty expensive but that's not always the case either. I paid a decent amount for my copy of Policenauts when I got mine but the majority of the games I got averaged to around 10 dollars and they have impressive big boxes. Now if only I could get an operating system installed so it would work...

I think the way to go is just use floppy emulators. Looking forward to telling two or three people about that when I get back from Japan in January.

I love these kind of threads. Thanks OP.

Thanks, have you played the MSX Metal Gears?
 

angelgrievous

Middle fingers up
Member
Nov 8, 2017
9,142
Ohio
Yeah, I didn't make this expecting a community. I just figured we needed a place where weirdos could share information here. The old site had a few MSX people but I think with as obscure this stuff is, it's probably best to put it all in one place. Hopefully there will be a couple other people who are interested who post every now and then. I'd love to hear about the games people like and what's worked since this is not something many of us would have encountered as kids.

As for the PC-98, you're right, emulation is probably the better choice when it comes to PC-98 RPGs. You don't have to deal with figuring out how to get the hardware working properly. I just prefer having the real thing and am not a Windows user so I've never gone that route. Any obscure ones that you've particularly liked?

The PC-98 is funny because if you look at ebay they try to sell them for hundreds or even thousands of dollars but on Yahoo auctions you'll regularly see them sell for under a hundred. That's actually how I got mine, I just randomly bid 8000 yen and woke up having to pay shipping. I think shipping ended up costing more than the system itself. Some of the games can be pretty expensive but that's not always the case either. I paid a decent amount for my copy of Policenauts when I got mine but the majority of the games I got averaged to around 10 dollars and they have impressive big boxes. Now if only I could get an operating system installed so it would work...

I think the way to go is just use floppy emulators. Looking forward to telling two or three people about that when I get back from Japan in January.



Thanks, have you played the MSX Metal Gears?
I've played the ports via the MGS Legacy Collection but nothing on original hardware. I'd like to one day, I've been wanting to get an MSX2 for a while now but have never taken the dive. I started looking again this morning because of the thread. I'll keep you updated if I end up getting one. Quick question though, can all of Kojimas earlier stuff be played on an MSX2? I'd like to check out Snatcher and Policenauts as well.
 
OP
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Laevateinn

Laevateinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,137
Chicago
I've played the ports via the MGS Legacy Collection but nothing on original hardware. I'd like to one day, I've been wanting to get an MSX2 for a while now but have never taken the dive. I started looking again this morning because of the thread. I'll keep you updated if I end up getting one. Quick question though, can all of Kojimas earlier stuff be played on an MSX2? I'd like to check out Snatcher and Policenauts as well.

You can get most classic Kojima titles on MSX but for Policenauts you'd need get a PC-98. The MSX isn't powerful enough to handle it. Of course, you could also play it on the Saturn or a Playstation but a lot of the art had been replaced with CG or redone some other way so it you want it the way it was meant to be played PC-98 is the way to go. Otherwise, the MSX is the way to go for original Kojima titles.
 

dadjumper

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,932
New Zealand
Heck yeah.
I've been really into emulating PC98 for a while, and I feel like it would be a super dangerous hole to fall down if I decided to actually buy one.
They made laptops, too, and those look dope as shit.

I've also always wanted an X68000, especially because they seem kinda hard to emulate. That thing is like the Neo Geo of computers
 
OP
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Laevateinn

Laevateinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,137
Chicago
Heck yeah.
I've been really into emulating PC98 for a while, and I feel like it would be a super dangerous hole to fall down if I decided to actually buy one.
They made laptops, too, and those look dope as shit.

I've also always wanted an X68000, especially because they seem kinda hard to emulate. That thing is like the Neo Geo of computers

I feel like a proper PC-98 paired with a drive replacement and floppy emulators isn't too deep of a rabbit hole. My PC-98 cost $31 (plus... uh... 328 for shipping....). After that, if you do things right, you can have a pretty sweet system. I just wish all these games I got weren't on 5-1/4 disks which is why I'm planning on getting floppy emulators and asking the guys at Beep! if they have any ideas why I can't get my OS to load.

The X68000 will cost you a bit more than that but installing a hard drive image on that is a lot easier and if you're savvy that's all you'd need. I do love the big boxes and floppies though so I haven't really done much piracy on this one. It's just too awesome to pirate so I guess I see why you'd be hesitant to get one. The Neo Geo of computers is a good analogy, the games and hardware are similar and the prices can get outrageous as well although, thankfully, not quite as much.

Yahoo Auctions is a great source. I've gotten things there for fractions of what you see elsewhere.
 

Sinople

Member
Oct 27, 2017
312
I've played a good number of old Japanese PC games in recent years.
I'll be sure to post my impressions here soon.
 

dadjumper

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,932
New Zealand
The X68000 will cost you a bit more than that but installing a hard drive image on that is a lot easier and if you're savvy that's all you'd need. I do love the big boxes and floppies though so I haven't really done much piracy on this one. It's just too awesome to pirate so I guess I see why you'd be hesitant to get one. The Neo Geo of computers is a good analogy, the games and hardware are similar and the prices can get outrageous as well although, thankfully, not quite as much.

Yahoo Auctions is a great source. I've gotten things there for fractions of what you see elsewhere.

Hmmm, this idea is intriguing... I wonder how much a good X86k would cost. Are those SD card adapters readily availble? Could you link me to any resources on how getting that set up works?
Also, I assume you can get it to output via RGB?

I can certainly vouch for the dopeness of Yahoo Auctions. I used it with Buyee before I moved to Japan and loved it, but now with local shipping fees it's rediculously cheap.
 
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Laevateinn

Laevateinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,137
Chicago
Hmmm, this idea is intriguing... I wonder how much a good X86k would cost. Are those SD card adapters readily availble? Could you link me to any resources on how getting that set up works?
Also, I assume you can get it to output via RGB?

I can certainly vouch for the dopeness of Yahoo Auctions. I used it with Buyee before I moved to Japan and loved it, but now with local shipping fees it's rediculously cheap.

There's a steep initial investment for the X68000. I don't know what they go for nowadays but mine, which came with the box, all the cables, a keyboard, a mouse, and 6MB extra RAM cost 59000 yen. Since SCSI is weird, the SD Card adapter (An SD Fuzinmonster) cost roughly the same as an everdrive.

As for video, I initially bought a 13 inch monitor to go with it but now I use a VGA adapter and connect it to an OSSC which handles 15-31 KHz.
 

dadjumper

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,932
New Zealand
There's a steep initial investment for the X68000. I don't know what they go for nowadays but mine, which came with the box, all the cables, a keyboard, a mouse, and 6MB extra RAM cost 59000 yen. Since SCSI is weird, the SD Card adapter (An SD Fuzinmonster) cost roughly the same as an everdrive.

As for video, I initially bought a 13 inch monitor to go with it but now I use a VGA adapter and connect it to an OSSC which handles 15-31 KHz.
Woof. Too rich for my blood, I reckon.
I'll keep an eye out though, who knows, maybe I'll be able to snatch one up. Don't care about the box personally.

Good to know it works well on the OSSC, I'd be using mine for that, too!
 

No Onions

Member
Nov 8, 2017
165
I'm late but I'm here! Thanks for creating this thread Laevateinn, I'm still reading through everything in the OP. My first box from Buyee should actually be arriving today, I've been checking the tracking number 5 times a day lol.
 

Force_XXI

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,188
Nice thread TS! I want all of these but cant right now...some day tho!

Got interested in these through zoasty's twitch channel. He plays vgm almost 24/7 with visualizers(hoot) and has lots NEC, MSX, and X68K stuff in the rotation, along will all kinds of other great stuff. Check it out some time!



 

foobarry81

Member
Oct 25, 2017
37
Belgium
I may do a bit of a more in-depth post about one or more of the MSX games I own over the weekend. Not sure yet if I'm going to have a lot of time.
Planning to do more of those in the future, if people are interested.
 
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Laevateinn

Laevateinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,137
Chicago
Woof. Too rich for my blood, I reckon.
I'll keep an eye out though, who knows, maybe I'll be able to snatch one up. Don't care about the box personally.

Good to know it works well on the OSSC, I'd be using mine for that, too!

Yeah, it's a big investment but that's the price of greatness. I wish I didn't have the box. I feel obligated to keep it but it's huge and difficult to store. Keep in mind that this came with almost everything you'd need. I think with just the PC you can get it for around 30k yen. With some floppy emulators, you can play the majority of games you'd ever want to try. With a SD card, you absolutely need a keyboard and additional RAM. You can get a keyboard adapter so that doesn't need to cost a ton but the RAM will be hard to come by and be expensive.

If it's something you see yourself getting one day, keep an eye out for RAM and lower prices, you might get lucky. Just set a budget and keep trying.

I'm late but I'm here! Thanks for creating this thread Laevateinn, I'm still reading through everything in the OP. My first box from Buyee should actually be arriving today, I've been checking the tracking number 5 times a day lol.

I wish I could check your tracking as well. Can't wait for pics.

Nice thread TS! I want all of these but cant right now...some day tho!

Got interested in these through zoasty's twitch channel. He plays vgm almost 24/7 with visualizers(hoot) and has lots NEC, MSX, and X68K stuff in the rotation, along will all kinds of other great stuff. Check it out some time!





These computers are great for being home to fantastic Japanese developers but the secret star is their music capabilities. I'm not sure if it was Cotton and the CPS games that got me interested or the bitchin soundtracks but whenever I listen to these, I find myself trolling Yahoo Auctions.

I may do a bit of a more in-depth post about one or more of the MSX games I own over the weekend. Not sure yet if I'm going to have a lot of time.
Planning to do more of those in the future, if people are interested.

I'm definitely interested at least :)
 

No Onions

Member
Nov 8, 2017
165
So my new project finally arrived today, a Sharp X68000 XVI. Sorry for crappy pics but my space is a total mess right now.
It has a few scuffs and scratches but I guess that's just added character on a 25+ year old computer

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Unfortunately it also suffered a little damage in shipping to the side cover on the power supply side and to the top corner above the X68000 logo. More character I guess.

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The Yahoo auctions listing had it as junk with a bad power supply which is pretty much to be expected with these machines. So my first project is going to be re-capping everything and get it cleaned up and working. Hopefully a little super glue can fix up most of the damage to the plastic bits.

I ended up buying a keyboard separately so that is on its way. I also bought a 2MB CZ-6BE2A memory expansion board, a Sacom SX-68M II MIDI board and a Roland CM-64 MIDI module. I also found a SCSI cable on Yahoo since this machine didn't have one included and I bought that too.

I also just bought an OSSC that arrived the other day to handle the monitor stuff. I'm excited to get to work on it!
 

No Onions

Member
Nov 8, 2017
165
Well, that serves me right for ordering any parts before I had the machine in my hands. I opened it up and it already has a 2MB RAM expansion installed haha. So I guess I will have a 2MB RAM upgrade for an XVI for sale or trade soon.

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Laevateinn

Laevateinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,137
Chicago
So, looking at gamesx, it looks like you can expand the memory of the CZ-6BE2A using expansion modules. Before selling off your memory, look into whether you can take the memory from your extra one and drop it into the other. That way you can have 6 MB total which should be a good amount for what you want to do.
https://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:cz-6be2a_-_memory_expansion_board

As for the power, that's a common problem but if you're comfortable soldering it shouldn't give you too much trouble.

You pick up any games?
 

dadjumper

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,932
New Zealand
Yeah, it's a big investment but that's the price of greatness. I wish I didn't have the box. I feel obligated to keep it but it's huge and difficult to store. Keep in mind that this came with almost everything you'd need. I think with just the PC you can get it for around 30k yen. With some floppy emulators, you can play the majority of games you'd ever want to try. With a SD card, you absolutely need a keyboard and additional RAM. You can get a keyboard adapter so that doesn't need to cost a ton but the RAM will be hard to come by and be expensive.


Floppy emulator, huh? is that a cheaper alternative?
What if I got an X68K compact and a USB floppy drive and just burned the floppies myself? Is that possible?
 

No Onions

Member
Nov 8, 2017
165
So, looking at gamesx, it looks like you can expand the memory of the CZ-6BE2A using expansion modules. Before selling off your memory, look into whether you can take the memory from your extra one and drop it into the other. That way you can have 6 MB total which should be a good amount for what you want to do.
https://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:cz-6be2a_-_memory_expansion_board

As for the power, that's a common problem but if you're comfortable soldering it shouldn't give you too much trouble.

You pick up any games?

The B modules that plug into the RAM board are small daughter boards that plug into the round pin headers. The first 2MB is soldered directly to the board so unfortunately a second board is no use to me.

I did pick up a few games yeah, so far I got Detana! Twinbee, Parodius Da! and Gradius II. Twinbee is the only one that arrived so far, I love these huge Konami boxes with the plastic flip top cases.
 
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Laevateinn

Laevateinn

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Oct 25, 2017
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Floppy emulator, huh? is that a cheaper alternative?
What if I got an X68K compact and a USB floppy drive and just burned the floppies myself? Is that possible?

Yep, there's been some people on NFG who've done this.

https://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=5242.0

The B modules that plug into the RAM board are small daughter boards that plug into the round pin headers. The first 2MB is soldered directly to the board so unfortunately a second board is no use to me.

I did pick up a few games yeah, so far I got Detana! Twinbee, Parodius Da! and Gradius II. Twinbee is the only one that arrived so far, I love these huge Konami boxes with the plastic flip top cases.

Nice, those are good choices. I need to get a copy of Gradius 2 myself but anything Konami justifies the computer in my mind.
 

kobiekun

Member
Nov 22, 2017
15
Thanks for putting this together OP. No matter how many of these kinds of threads I see, I always manage to learn something new with each. Moved to Japan about two years ago with my wife and kids and have been meaning to get back into this stuff—just need a slightly bigger place…
 
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Laevateinn

Laevateinn

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Oct 25, 2017
2,137
Chicago
Huge shout out to the team translating Brandish 2 for the PC-98. The patch is almost complete and they've put together a website that looks pretty slick. I can't wait to play it.

https://gu4n.github.io/br2/

Thanks for putting this together OP. No matter how many of these kinds of threads I see, I always manage to learn something new with each. Moved to Japan about two years ago with my wife and kids and have been meaning to get back into this stuff—just need a slightly bigger place…

I hear you. I've looked for jobs in Japan but the wages and the size of a typical apartment makes it a tough sell.
 

No Onions

Member
Nov 8, 2017
165
So wow, a very pleasant surprise with my X68000. I started pulling more of it apart to get the main boards out and I found this card installed.

D3PPHsq.jpg


Its an 8MB RAM expansion board, so with the other 2MB RAM expansion that means this machine has 12MB of RAM installed, awesome!
 
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Laevateinn

Laevateinn

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Oct 25, 2017
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Jeez, that's perfect. What a great surprise. You should be able to load everything you want off the hard drive now.

One thing that's important to know is that the system doesn't actually know how much RAM is installed so you have to set it using switch.x which is another reason why it's important to have a keyboard.
 

Symphony

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,361
For someone who is looking into getting started with old Japanese computers would a PC-9821 or FM Towns 2 be more recommended? I've have a small urge to get one for a while now after listening to various soundtracks, but realistically only have the space and money for one for now (already had to rule out the beautiful X68000 due to cost). I've done about as much research as I can with my limited knowledge and while the PC-98 has far more games available (that are also cheap and easy to find), it seems like getting a unit up and running will be a nightmare (faulty parts, proprietary connections etc.), plus I have no experience using DOS. The FM Towns meanwhile seems to be more plug and play, but the library is lacking in comparison and games are more expensive/harder to obtain.
 
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Laevateinn

Laevateinn

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Oct 25, 2017
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For someone who is looking into getting started with old Japanese computers would a PC-9821 or FM Towns 2 be more recommended? I've have a small urge to get one for a while now after listening to various soundtracks, but realistically only have the space and money for one for now (already had to rule out the beautiful X68000 due to cost). I've done about as much research as I can with my limited knowledge and while the PC-98 has far more games available (that are also cheap and easy to find), it seems like getting a unit up and running will be a nightmare (faulty parts, proprietary connections etc.), plus I have no experience using DOS. The FM Towns meanwhile seems to be more plug and play, but the library is lacking in comparison and games are more expensive/harder to obtain.

I guess the answer to that would depend on what you're looking for. The PC-98 was just a normal PC that everyone had and game controllers were basically not a thing on it. Because of this, while Falcom did release basically all of their classic titles on it, it's not going to offer much in the way of console or arcade-like titles. Also, since most of the titles released on it are adventure games or RPGs, you might not want to jump in unless you're somewhat familiar with Japanese.

However, if soundtracks are an influence, this is probably a great choice. Almost all PC-98s have great FM synthesizers in them and it's possible to expand them to support MIDI. Yuzo Koshiro used a PC-98 for composition for example. If what you want out of it is access to the golden era of Japanese video game and anime artwork and music, the PC-98 is the machine for you.

Don't let DOS deter you. It's pretty simple command based interface. And, if more people start getting PC-98s, that will motivate me to get mine working more quickly so I can try to help you :)

The FM-Towns offers an experience much more in line with what the X68000 offered. It's games tend to be pretty expensive but, you didn't hear this from me, as a CD-ROM based system, there's ways around that. You'll get great versions of Street Fighter 2 or Ultima on this. The FM Towns uses the same type of controller that the MSX and X68000 use too so you're prepared if you ever decide to get one of those. As for music, the FM Towns uses a mix of CD-Audio and the same FM Synth in the Genesis so take that for what you will.

Given the choice of the two, I would probably get a PC-98 because I can get the types of titles the FM Towns offers on other systems, but that's me.
 

Symphony

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,361
However, if soundtracks are an influence, this is probably a great choice. Almost all PC-98s have great FM synthesizers in them and it's possible to expand them to support MIDI. Yuzo Koshiro used a PC-98 for composition for example. If what you want out of it is access to the golden era of Japanese video game and anime artwork and music, the PC-98 is the machine for you.
That's certainly the main driving force for looking at that era of Japanese PCs, I'm trying to experience games and systems that had no real presence in Europe (hence getting a PC Engine this year) and as I love the sound of Mega Drive and Mega CD games the PC-98 or FM Towns seemed like the next choice. Also PC-98 has beautiful pixel art going for it, but that seems to be primarily found in untranslated VNs and I only know a little Japanese.

It's going to be a difficult choice since it sounds like the PC-98 fits what I'm looking for a bit better, but I have the nagging feeling that getting one up and running would be too hard as a first foray into this.
 

IrishNinja

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,837
Vice City
fuck me, i don't yet own an x68000 but that box & especially book alone would do for a purchase, that's gorgeous stuff. congrats man.
 

No Onions

Member
Nov 8, 2017
165
Nice pickup, I was really impressed with all the cool artwork in that Gradius II manual.

I've made some progress with my XVI, I finally got my vga adapter cable today so I could connect it to my OSSC and know what it's doing.

I replaced most of the components in the power supply which had a lot of leaking caps going on, I also replaced all of the caps on the motherboard, the video output board and the bottom main board. I also replaced the SRAM battery with a 2032 coin cell in a battery holder.

So today I was finally able to connect it to a display and find out if it's working. I can get to the insert disk message in 10mhz mode, but not in 16mhz mode. I don't know why that is yet, but when I insert the Human 68k disk in 10mhz mode the machine starts going into some kind of a reset loop where the floppy drive clicks briefly then I lose video sync and the machine seems to reset and that repeats until I eject the disk.

I also get some other message on screen when I press the interrupt button without a disk inserted but it's entirely in Japanese which I can't read.

I'm going to start with taking the floppy drives out and replacing the caps on those boards and go from there. Hopefully I can get this expensive paperweight working soon.
 
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Laevateinn

Laevateinn

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Oct 25, 2017
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Take a picture of the Japanese screen and maybe I can help you figure it out. Getting something is at least a good sign.

The floppy emulators I ordered for my PC98 got to customs yesterday so if they arrive before next week I can give you an idea about those if that's a route you want to go in the future. They definitely work on the X68000 and I don't expect them to be any more difficult to set up than replacing caps.

I forget, did yours come with a SCSI cable/drive? A SD Card setup works exceptionally well too except you're limited to what's available on HDD images.
 

No Onions

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Nov 8, 2017
165
I was able to buy a SCSI cable from a seller on Yahoo, I haven't installed it yet though. I want to get the floppies working and get the machine running in stock condition before I add anything else.
I snapped some quick pictures

this first one is when I power on in 10mhz mode and let it sit for a few seconds
mnJwMn9.jpg


this one is when I hit the interrupt button before the white box with the disk pops up
PEkWIHV.jpg


this is what I get when I hit interrupt in 16mhz mode, it won't give me the white box in 16mhz mode for some reason.
APEomKR.jpg
 
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Laevateinn

Laevateinn

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First image: cannot startup from disk. please insert the correct disk.

The second and third have kanji next to 生 that is difficult for me to make out but they basically both boil down to there has been an error. please reset. The third image looks like it might have valuable information if you had a manual or knew what error codes meant but I'm not sure. My guess is that either your floppy or the drive is dead. Clicking makes me think that as well.
 

tiesto

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,865
Long Island, NY
Oooh, was waiting for a thread like this! For those who want a slightly cheaper, less technical replacement for the FM-Towns, go with a Marty. The disk drives have issues and the games are still expensive af, but I'm pretty happy with mine.

Anyways, I own a Marty and have a close friend with an X68000, so I'll make a few recommendations:

X68000:

Desperado - decent Defender clone with good music
Cho Ren Sha 68k - surprised this isn't in the OP since it's one of the most famous doujin games for the system. Also has a Windows port.
Detana Twinbee - I love this series and this is a fantastic port of the arcade game. Recommended if you like cute em ups with a fair (at first) difficulty, vivid graphics, and great music
Marchen Maze - An adorable isometric platformer based on Alice in Wonderland
Etoile Princess - Overhead action RPG, an original for the system. Bright graphics, large sprites, decent gameplay.
Algarna - well, it's not a great game (it's basically the bump-into-your-enemy Ys combat translated to a sidescroller... there's a reason why Adol got a sword when Ys 3 switched to a sidescroller, since these 2 styles of play aren't very compatible), but it's got a fantastic Yuzo Koshiro soundtrack
Granada - you can also get this on the Genesis, but the soundtrack + MIDI on this version takes it up a level. Overhead run and gun game where you pilot a tank. Wolf Team/Sakuraba on duties for this one.
Die Bahnwelt - very cool cyberpunk action RPG, apparently there's an English translation too... really need to play more

I'll have more later, there's one action RPG my friend has that's very similar to Zelda 1 in terms of map design and gameplay (but with amazing 16 bit graphics) that I do want to talk more about. I think it might be doujin?

FM-Towns/Marty:


Tatsujin Oh (Truxton 2) - The best shooter on the system, and the only home port of the game. Very challenging shooter by Toaplan, it's a bit more of a classic shooter than a bullet hell.
Splatterhouse - I never really cared for the Turbo port of this game, but the FM-Towns/Marty version takes it to another level. The graphics, music, and atmosphere are so much better that it's not even funny.
Alshark - I only played a bit of this, but it seemed like a decent RPG with Ultima style combat. The art book that comes with the game makes it look more futuristic/sci fi in setting, but what I played seemed very much like your traditional fantasy.
Lesser Mern - a very traditional RPG with lots and lots of anime cutscenes.
Galaxy Force II - not the best version of the game (the scaling is very chunky), but special attention needs to be paid to the remixed soundtrack. It's got elements of 90's lounge, freestyle, and early 90's progressive house and it's awesome!
Emerald Dragon - supposedly one of the better ports of this game, though I still like the PCE CD a bit more based on what I've played

On the look out for some more FM-Towns recs too... I hear good things about the Ultima ports, and of course I know about the Lucasfilm ports too...
 

No Onions

Member
Nov 8, 2017
165
First image: cannot startup from disk. please insert the correct disk.

The second and third have kanji next to 生 that is difficult for me to make out but they basically both boil down to there has been an error. please reset. The third image looks like it might have valuable information if you had a manual or knew what error codes meant but I'm not sure. My guess is that either your floppy or the drive is dead. Clicking makes me think that as well.

Thanks for that, it's very helpful to know what those say. I pulled the floppy drives out and I'm going to replace the caps on the drive boards and give them a cleaning and lubricate the slide rails with some fresh grease and see if that makes any difference.
 
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Laevateinn

Laevateinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,137
Chicago
Oooh, was waiting for a thread like this! For those who want a slightly cheaper, less technical replacement for the FM-Towns, go with a Marty. The disk drives have issues and the games are still expensive af, but I'm pretty happy with mine.

Anyways, I own a Marty and have a close friend with an X68000, so I'll make a few recommendations:

X68000:

Desperado - decent Defender clone with good music
Cho Ren Sha 68k - surprised this isn't in the OP since it's one of the most famous doujin games for the system. Also has a Windows port.
Detana Twinbee - I love this series and this is a fantastic port of the arcade game. Recommended if you like cute em ups with a fair (at first) difficulty, vivid graphics, and great music
Marchen Maze - An adorable isometric platformer based on Alice in Wonderland
Etoile Princess - Overhead action RPG, an original for the system. Bright graphics, large sprites, decent gameplay.
Algarna - well, it's not a great game (it's basically the bump-into-your-enemy Ys combat translated to a sidescroller... there's a reason why Adol got a sword when Ys 3 switched to a sidescroller, since these 2 styles of play aren't very compatible), but it's got a fantastic Yuzo Koshiro soundtrack
Granada - you can also get this on the Genesis, but the soundtrack + MIDI on this version takes it up a level. Overhead run and gun game where you pilot a tank. Wolf Team/Sakuraba on duties for this one.
Die Bahnwelt - very cool cyberpunk action RPG, apparently there's an English translation too... really need to play more

I'll have more later, there's one action RPG my friend has that's very similar to Zelda 1 in terms of map design and gameplay (but with amazing 16 bit graphics) that I do want to talk more about. I think it might be doujin?

FM-Towns/Marty:


Tatsujin Oh (Truxton 2) - The best shooter on the system, and the only home port of the game. Very challenging shooter by Toaplan, it's a bit more of a classic shooter than a bullet hell.
Splatterhouse - I never really cared for the Turbo port of this game, but the FM-Towns/Marty version takes it to another level. The graphics, music, and atmosphere are so much better that it's not even funny.
Alshark - I only played a bit of this, but it seemed like a decent RPG with Ultima style combat. The art book that comes with the game makes it look more futuristic/sci fi in setting, but what I played seemed very much like your traditional fantasy.
Lesser Mern - a very traditional RPG with lots and lots of anime cutscenes.
Galaxy Force II - not the best version of the game (the scaling is very chunky), but special attention needs to be paid to the remixed soundtrack. It's got elements of 90's lounge, freestyle, and early 90's progressive house and it's awesome!
Emerald Dragon - supposedly one of the better ports of this game, though I still like the PCE CD a bit more based on what I've played

On the look out for some more FM-Towns recs too... I hear good things about the Ultima ports, and of course I know about the Lucasfilm ports too...

Happy to see more life in this thread and thanks for the recs. I have Etoile Princess and Twinbee of course but the rest of your recs are things I've either only heard of or are brand new to me. I got interested in this stuff a couple years ago and mostly shop blind so I don't think I even have any doujin games but Cho Ren Sha and Algarna are must haves for me now. I think I only have 15 games so far. This is an expensive hobby.

As for FM-Towns, when mine arrived I found out that the seller was going to be helpful and cut off the end of the power cable so he could wire one for whatever region someone bought it for except he never did. That combined with the cost of every game I've ever looked at has turned it into something that's just pretty cool looking that sits near my retro stuff. I think I'm just going to fix the cable and see what I can do about everything else. I'd love to at least use it initially for Tatsujin Ou and Splatterhouse but fuck the prices are terrible for this thing.

Thanks for that, it's very helpful to know what those say. I pulled the floppy drives out and I'm going to replace the caps on the drive boards and give them a cleaning and lubricate the slide rails with some fresh grease and see if that makes any difference.

Happy to help. Sucks that yours arrived with so many issues. Mine came recapped and I've only ever had trouble with one disk before so I guess I got incredibly lucky. Thankfully there's a decent amount of info on this stuff out there. Keep us updated, I really hope you get it working.
 

No Onions

Member
Nov 8, 2017
165
Well I think I may have found an issue, I'm only getting 3.94V on my 5V lines from the PSU. I theorize that could be why the system is shutting down when the floppy drive tries to spin up and also why it doesn't seem to boot in 16mhz, the voltage is too low. I'm going to pull the power supply back out and double check all the component values against the schematic again and if I can't figure out whats wrong I may just replace the psu with a picopsu and be done with it.
 
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Laevateinn

Laevateinn

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Oct 25, 2017
2,137
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Yeah, I think if you don't see anything after going through what's already there, it might be better to just replace it with something modern like a PicoPSU.
 

No Onions

Member
Nov 8, 2017
165
well I think I found it, turns out a voltage regulator doesn't work properly if an idiot puts it in backwards. doh!
I'm gonna try putting it back together and see what happens.
 

No Onions

Member
Nov 8, 2017
165
well I made some progress, the system boots up in 10mhz and 16mhz mode now and it loads disks. Both floppy drives seem to be working just fine, I played a few minutes of Parodius and that was cool too, which also means the rest of the machine should be in good shape hopefully, CPU and sound and all that seem to be working.

The problem, I now have a horrible screeching buzzing noise coming from inside the PSU. I think the main transformer is on its way out, so that means I'm gonna end up going with the PicoPSU after all.
Now I just need to figure out which wattage PSU to go with, I thought I read somewhere that the stock PSU is max 86W, so that means a 120W PicoPSU would be more than enough to run it, more reading to do!

Oh and the disk of Human68K I got does me no good. It's version 2.0 and boots up to a primitive GUI but I have no mouse so I'll need to find somebody that can make me a Human68K boot disk.
 
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Laevateinn

Laevateinn

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Oct 25, 2017
2,137
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Excellent news. Super glad it was just power issues.

Do you need Human68k to access switch.x? I would stop worrying about that and just get a SD Card or Compact Flash hard disk image installed in there if I were you.
 

No Onions

Member
Nov 8, 2017
165
Excellent news. Super glad it was just power issues.

Do you need Human68k to access switch.x? I would stop worrying about that and just get a SD Card or Compact Flash hard disk image installed in there if I were you.

Yeah that was my thought, but I guess if I can get into switch.x with the disk image then I wouldn't need a floppy. I already have a scsi2sd ordered so I should be good :)
 
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Laevateinn

Laevateinn

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My floppy emulators arrived yesterday and I made some huge progress with the PC-98. Turns out the issues I've been having have been primarily related to the IDE->Compact Flash card adapter I was using. I installed the floppy emulator, which works fantastically, and put the old hard drive back in and success.

e6cGs64.jpg


PbeB7zT.jpg


pcnPe2Y.jpg


rbdmiXP.jpg


AuIhNIM.jpg


Bonus BSOD
91pS6gW.jpg


I need to figure out how to get a modern IDE solution working because I imagine this hard drive probably won't last super long. For now, I'm going to wipe it and go DOS only. Now it's time to figure out which games I want.
 
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Aeana

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,953
Ahhhh, how come nobody told me about this thread. This is all my childhood. I just recently hooked up my PC98 to play the Brandish 2 translation.
 
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Laevateinn

Laevateinn

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Oct 25, 2017
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Ahhhh, how come nobody told me about this thread. This is all my childhood. I just recently hooked up my PC98 to play the Brandish 2 translation.

The Brandish patch is what made me finally figure out how to get my PC-98 up and working. Now I need to figure out how to get the Brandish 2 patch working on my machine. The patch only works with the HDI file right? Did you patch that, extract the files using DiskExplorer and then put them on your hard drive? Or, do you have internet on yours?

None of those tools (DiskExplorer, WinImage etc) work with WINE so I've been struggling getting this stuff working properly. This is going to make me break down and install Windows on one of my machines.