Reuters: “I thought a woman could win; he [Sanders] disagreed,” Warren, a U.S. senator from Massachusetts, said in a statement.

Snowy

Member
Nov 11, 2017
1,145
Pretty much, there are blinders related to bernie but bernie fans are in for a big surprise when he loses again.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Bernie loses, either in the primary or the general,
No its not. Am I wrong though? Republicans manage to fall in line and look where it got them, the white house, stacked judges in the courts. Meanwhile Democrats prefer infighting and cant get a single thing accomplished thanks to it. You saw it in 2016 with Hillary and Bernie.
Republicans all want basically the same things, it is easy for them to fall in line. There are actual incommensurable differences between centrist Dems and Leftist Dems that make unity much more challenging, and you can only run on being the harm reduction party for so long until people get sick of waiting and just drop out.
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,396
USA
I've never understood the "cult" commentary on Sanders supporters.

Also, it's gunna be interesting to see how this is handled tonight; surely neither of them will bring it up, but it's almost 100% Sanders is being asked about it/Warren will have a chance to respond.
 

Titik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,820
And he is right. Especially if the path to the presidency is through the Midwest. And especially if it’s Warren versus Trump.

At the end of the day, this little mini fight only helps Biden secure the nomination in a couple of weeks.
 

DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,620
I've never understood the "cult" commentary on Sanders supporters.

Also, it's gunna be interesting to see how this is handled tonight; surely neither of them will bring it up, but it's almost 100% Sanders is being asked about it/Warren will have a chance to respond.
Its quite sad really

For what's essentially an unimportant non story to force them to explain it (and im sure a private conversation had more nuance than can be explained on a devate stage) just so media can delight in dissecting and amplifying nothing into something
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,682
the cult of "people should have health care and we should focus on rebuilding the social safety net instead of imperial bloodletting"

terrifying!
 

Palette Swap

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,871
I’m going to assume this was a galaxy brain genius in Warren’s entourage who leaked a non-story, while some Sanders surrogates chose this as an opportunity to go after the Warren campaign.
Who cares about poverty, kids in cages, war or a 6-3 SC when you finally get to tell other people in your camp how much they suck at being in your camp, while corporate media get their show on the road.
 

demondance

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,750
Love how every time this story gets another layer that looks bad for Warren, the usual posters pivot to talking about how terrible Sanders supporters are instead, or whining about podcasts, or twitter accounts, or something.
 

Jade1962

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,460
I'm not seeing the contraversy in having an opinion that a woman can't win the election in 2020. If the statement would of been "a woman shouldn't run for president" I would be upset.

You know what other groups would have a hard time winning the 2020 presidential election:

Muslims
Russians
Socialists
Black women
Leftists

And no one losing their minds over this would disagree with the above list.
 

Big Baybee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,537
Sanders supporters really cannot take any criticism, and it is kind of scary. My top choices are Warren and Sanders, just to put that out there.
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,281
no.

the cult is them saying bernie is the only one who could deliver those things.

like your post
*squints*

His post doesn't say that at all. If you are doing is dredging up past posts (doubtful because most people are too lazy to call out individual posters in any topic) you should reference it so your post seems logical.


hes the only one running. im not gonna pretend otherwise.
I'll give you the avoiding imperial bloodletting half of your statement but everyone except for Yang cares about offering an improvement on healthcare.
 

demondance

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,750
Sanders supporters really cannot take any criticism, and it is kind of scary. My top choices are Warren and Sanders, just to put that out there.
Come on man. This is a pretty wild attack that has actual weight to it. This wasn't some minor criticism, it was an accusation of a moral failing on the part of a person who has been rock solid on this very issue for decades.

ok
So on one day people attack warren for copying Bernies healthcare plan, and the next day they say she doesn't even have one. lol
Her intitial health plan was a vague one implied to reflect Sanders' plan. Which is why she was (and still is) many Sanders voters' second choice.

Then she put out her revised plan, and it was... not that. It was much more in line with the sorts of public option focused plans that other Democrats are putting up. And that coincides with when she started dropping in the polls.

Why do so many of you pretend to be ignorant in these threads? Can't you make a point in favor of the candidate you support without pulling this move?
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,682
ok
So on one day people attack warren for copying Bernies healthcare plan, and the next day they say she doesn't even have one. lol
i literally do not believe her. she makes unforced errors all the time and capitulates instantly on everything.

I'll give you the avoiding imperial bloodletting half of your statement but everyone except for Yang cares about offering an improvement on healthcare.
Nope. No compromise from me on this.
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
11,894
a sunken pirate ship
no.

the cult is them saying bernie is the only one who could deliver those things.

like your post
I do not think Sanders is the only one who could deliver this, but I do believe he is the only one making it a real campaign promise vs. what the other candidates are suggesting which ranges from "but you've already got obamacare" through biden to "medicare for some more people if they ask nicely 2 years from now" like warren is suggesting.

I would much rather Warren copy Sanders's plan. Originality doesn't matter in politics.
 

N. Tyranno

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,605
Come on man. This is a pretty wild attack that has actual weight to it. This wasn't some minor criticism, it was an accusation of a moral failing on the part of a person who has been rock solid on this very issue for decades.



Her intitial health plan was a vague one implied to reflect Sanders' plan. Which is why she was (and still is) many Sanders voters' second choice.

Then she put out her revised plan, and it was... not that. It was much more in line with the sorts of public option plans that other Democrats are putting up. And that coincides with when she started dropping in the polls.

Why do so many of you pretend to be ignorant in these threads?
Endorsing Cenk Ugyer is not being solid on issues of women’s rights and sexism.
 

Double 0

Member
Nov 5, 2017
2,721

Because the best thing to do when your friend wants a he said/she said situation dropped is to dunk on her, publicly, on stage.

But Warren has terrible political instincts.
 

Big Baybee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,537
Come on man. This is a pretty wild attack that has actual weight to it. This wasn't some minor criticism, it was an accusation of a moral failing on the part of a person who has been rock solid on this very issue for decades.
Bernie is human, man. No one is perfect 100% of the time. I don’t think warren would blantantly lie about something like this. So instead of defending the man to the bitter end, realize that it’s fucked up and make sure this kind of thing doesn’t become a pattern.
 

Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,568
imo the way the sanders supporters are clutching their pearls about how devious and underhanded this shameful attack by the warren campaign is is proof that they're not even remotely ready to handle the GOP in the general because it's like the GOP spent years doing benghazi hearings for clinton and are currently trying to throw biden's son in prison send tweet
 

bye

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,973
Phoenix, AZ

Because the best thing to do when your friend wants a he said/she said situation dropped is to dunk on her, publicly, on stage.

But Warren has terrible political instincts.
how is that dunking on her? what?

he's just defending his own record, which has been one of uhh, supporting her political career from the beginning.
 

demondance

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,750
Bernie is human, man. No one is perfect 100% of the time. I don’t think warren would blantantly lie about something like this. So instead of defending the man to the bitter end, realize that it’s fucked up and make sure this kind of thing doesn’t become a pattern.
So you're just going to ignore the sources backing up Sanders' perspective on this Rashomon-ass situation in the Washington Post? How exactly are we at the "bitter end" of this situation, when that article and several following it are the current status of this situation?
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,682
Warren politifact

Sanders politifact

Biden politifact


Warren has the best truth telling record of the three. If you don't believe her that's on you
Cool it is on me. Like I give a shit about politifact. If you could somehow make a percentage of lies vs truth that meant anything, I would place MORE weight on something like lying about being Native American for decades then whatever non issue bullshit people can come up with for Sanders.


Because the best thing to do when your friend wants a he said/she said situation dropped is to dunk on her, publicly, on stage.

But Warren has terrible political instincts.
Do you think this somehow is not going to be brought up tonight?
 

Caspah

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,715
Graveyard in Boston
I apologize for any offense I might have caused by referring to the cult of Bernie.

I'm probably still butthurt about 2016 where I was met with sever hostility over questions like "great idea, how is he going to pay for that?" and for how many Sanders supporters vowed to not vote, or to vote Trump if Clinton won the nomination. I admire passion about politics, and issues, but when our candidate is challenged, or even loses a primary we can't throw our arms up and quit caring about the country. That's what I saw in 2016 with Sanders supporters, and unfortunately I still see a little of that in threads like these.

I really wish we all could just keep our eye on the prize. Every Dem candidate wants to fix healthcare, they just have different ideas on how to do it. They all oppose dumbass wars in the middle east. They all want to close the poverty gap by increasing taxes on the hyper rich. For the most part they're all alike in the areas that matter so while we can absolutely have our favorites we shouldn't adopt any kind of "my guy or fuck you" mentality, which unfortunately I predominately see from Sanders supporters. I like Warren, but will vote for Bernie if he's our candidate, just as I voted for Clinton in the primary but would have absolutely voted for Bernie in the primary if he was our guy.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,240
I apologize for any offense I might have caused by referring to the cult of Bernie.

I'm probably still butthurt about 2016 where I was met with sever hostility over questions like "great idea, how is he going to pay for that?" and for how many Sanders supporters vowed to not vote, or to vote Trump if Clinton won the nomination. I admire passion about politics, and issues, but when our candidate is challenged, or even loses a primary we can't throw our arms up and quit caring about the country. That's what I saw in 2016 with Sanders supporters, and unfortunately I still see a little of that in threads like these.

I really wish we all could just keep our eye on the prize. Every Dem candidate wants to fix healthcare, they just have different ideas on how to do it. They all oppose dumbass wars in the middle east. They all want to close the poverty gap by increasing taxes on the hyper rich. For the most part they're all alike in the areas that matter so while we can absolutely have our favorites we shouldn't adopt any kind of "my guy or fuck you" mentality, which unfortunately I predominately see from Sanders supporters.
It's painfully naive to think there aren't meaningful differences among the democratic candidates. It's okay if you feel that way but no one is obligated to take the perspective seriously.
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,281
i literally do not believe her. she makes unforced errors all the time and capitulates instantly on everything.



Nope. No compromise from me on this.

Not accepting a compromise is one thing but don't pretend Warren is lying. She has been upfront that while she shares Sanders goal in how Healthcare should be structured she isn't as confident in getting it done so she'll compromise it to get any pieces of the plan passed. That's not so unreasonable to dismiss her. Maybe your situation or a loved one is so bad it is life or death but I doubt Warren would compromise so much it would endanger that life.
 

Caspah

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,715
Graveyard in Boston
It's painfully naive to think there aren't meaningful differences among the democratic candidates. It's okay if you feel that way but no one is obligated to take the perspective seriously.
I didn't say that, nor was I trying to imply there weren't meaningful differences. I'm saying the approach of "I'm right, you're wrong, and fuck the world if Sanders isn't nominated" is dangerous.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,682
I apologize for any offense I might have caused by referring to the cult of Bernie.

I'm probably still butthurt about 2016 where I was met with sever hostility over questions like "great idea, how is he going to pay for that?" and for how many Sanders supporters vowed to not vote, or to vote Trump if Clinton won the nomination. I admire passion about politics, and issues, but when our candidate is challenged, or even loses a primary we can't throw our arms up and quit caring about the country. That's what I saw in 2016 with Sanders supporters, and unfortunately I still see a little of that in threads like these.

I really wish we all could just keep our eye on the prize. Every Dem candidate wants to fix healthcare, they just have different ideas on how to do it. They all oppose dumbass wars in the middle east. They all want to close the poverty gap by increasing taxes on the hyper rich. For the most part they're all alike in the areas that matter so while we can absolutely have our favorites we shouldn't adopt any kind of "my guy or fuck you" mentality, which unfortunately I predominately see from Sanders supporters.
So if you're so worried about Bernie cultists self sabotaging the election because he has the most people who would only go for him, and you truly believe he was the number one reason why Clinton lost, you had better hope Sanders is the nom because the "vote blue no matter who" people will naturally just go for him, ensuring the best case against Trump, right?

ok, what is your preferred record of peoples truth telling tendencies?
My gut?
 

demondance

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,750
I apologize for any offense I might have caused by referring to the cult of Bernie.

I'm probably still butthurt about 2016 where I was met with sever hostility over questions like "great idea, how is he going to pay for that?" and for how many Sanders supporters vowed to not vote, or to vote Trump if Clinton won the nomination. I admire passion about politics, and issues, but when our candidate is challenged, or even loses a primary we can't throw our arms up and quit caring about the country. That's what I saw in 2016 with Sanders supporters, and unfortunately I still see a little of that in threads like these.

I really wish we all could just keep our eye on the prize. Every Dem candidate wants to fix healthcare, they just have different ideas on how to do it. They all oppose dumbass wars in the middle east. They all want to close the poverty gap by increasing taxes on the hyper rich. For the most part they're all alike in the areas that matter so while we can absolutely have our favorites we shouldn't adopt any kind of "my guy or fuck you" mentality, which unfortunately I predominately see from Sanders supporters. I like Warren, but will vote for Bernie if he's our candidate, just as I voted for Clinton in the primary but would have absolutely voted for Bernie in the primary if he was our guy.
You either present yourself as a reasonable person who doesn't attack any of the candidates and intends to quietly pick one and wait until the general to get really serious about being a firebrand against Trump.

Or you go around calling supporters of a particular candidate a "cult" over various grievances, and coloring everything they do as some kind of thorn in the side of U.S. politics.

You can't do both.
 

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,328
imo the way the sanders supporters are clutching their pearls about how devious and underhanded this shameful attack by the warren campaign is is proof that they're not even remotely ready to handle the GOP in the general because it's like the GOP spent years doing benghazi hearings for clinton and are currently trying to throw biden's son in prison send tweet
great point, dude
 
Oct 25, 2017
732
also in line with his previous comments that “white people that wouldn’t vote for a black person are not necessarily racist”

Yea, it's comments like that one and his "Aren't most of the people who sell drugs African Americans" coloring my judgement here. I can see him saying something like this to Warren's face, and not thinking anything of it.
 

GuessMyUserName

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,974
Toronto
Come on man. This is a pretty wild attack that has actual weight to it. This wasn't some minor criticism, it was an accusation of a moral failing on the part of a person who has been rock solid on this very issue for decades.
Except it isn't even a god damn criticism at all, that's the spin. The claim laid out is that Bernie pointed out the well known and often repeated *fact* that it's hard for a woman to win a presidential election in a private conversation with Warren and he's not sure a woman can win this election (again, a fair assessment on its face and a point that could be made by anyone), and that Warren took offence to it because it's discouraging (also legitimate as a woman who just announced her presidential bid).

Nobody is calling Bernie a sexist pig that doesn't want a female president here, it was a true (or rather arguable) but insensitive comment in private and that's where the story should die. The fact that people are so overtly defensive over anything remotely insinuating insensitivity that they immediately turn the accusation into an absolute extreme is why it's so damn hard to tackle America's deep-rooted problems.

The best lesson ERA in general could learn is to stop making god damn mountains out of molehills, especially when it's so plainly at the direction of controversy peddlers of the media who just want this trash.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,682
yeah sanders supporters being willing to defend their candidate means they aren't ready for GOP hits somehow, great. after all this is definitely the first and likely the last time anyone will go after sanders, really got blindsided by this one

So, just to pull back and look at the big picture-- when someone offers a vetted, fact-checking outfit as a proof and the counter to that is "my gut," can you see how that sort of thing sets off alarm bells for people?
there are maybe - highballing it here - a million people that are that invested to religiously fact check stuff and not just decide like two weeks before the vote which democrat they will actually go for. i would put much more weight into the average voters gut feeling.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,240
I didn't say that, nor was I trying to imply there weren't meaningful differences. I'm saying the approach of "I'm right, you're wrong, and fuck the world if Sanders isn't nominated" is dangerous.
First off there are tons of bitter partisans behind every candidate. Bernie's group is just more prominent because of the lack of other alternatives in 2016.

I'm probably still butthurt (yikes) about 2016 where I was met with sever hostility over questions like "great idea, how is he going to pay for that?" and for how many Sanders supporters vowed to not vote, or to vote Trump if Clinton won the nomination. I admire passion about politics, and issues, but when our candidate is challenged, or even loses a primary we can't throw our arms up and quit caring about the country. That's what I saw in 2016 with Sanders supporters, and unfortunately I still see a little of that in threads like these.

I really wish we all could just keep our eye on the prize. Every Dem candidate wants to fix healthcare, they just have different ideas on how to do it. They all oppose dumbass wars in the middle east. They all want to close the poverty gap by increasing taxes on the hyper rich. For the most part they're all alike in the areas that matter so while we can absolutely have our favorites we shouldn't adopt any kind of "my guy or fuck you" mentality, which unfortunately I predominately see from Sanders supporters.
The point is that the rationale you have for why people should be less militant about their future is based on a naive, fundamentally misguided understanding of the current state of politics.

Which again, is fine. But no one is obligated to take it seriously.
 

demondance

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,750
imo the way the sanders supporters are clutching their pearls about how devious and underhanded this shameful attack by the warren campaign is is proof that they're not even remotely ready to handle the GOP in the general because it's like the GOP spent years doing benghazi hearings for clinton and are currently trying to throw biden's son in prison send tweet
You wouldn't get the same reaction if it wasn't Warren. Do you not get the context here?

Sanders wanted Warren to run in 2016 and only ran because she decided not to. While some prominent Sanders supporters have made it their mission to hammer in the contrasts between Sanders and Warren here in 2020 -- as you do in a primary, when you're running against each other and these contrasts are the point -- Sanders himself never gave that much thought.

A Sanders/Warren ticket was a common proposal. She's clearly the closest thing ideologically to Sanders that is currently running. There's some disappointment over this kind of ratfucking going on between these two. Don't ignore all that just to make some silly point about the general.
 

Caspah

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,715
Graveyard in Boston
You either present yourself as a reasonable person who doesn't attack any of the candidates and intends to quietly pick one and wait until the general to get really serious about being a firebrand against Trump.

Or you go around calling supporters of a particular candidate a "cult" over various grievances, and coloring everything they do as some kind of thorn in the side of U.S. politics.

You can't do both.
I don't intend to quietly pick a candidate, I have been fairly vocal about my affinity towards Warren. I think of all the candidates she's the one best aligned with my interests and how I see problems we face being solved. But that said, I can also agree with the other candidates on their talking points as well. I'm wholly capable of thinking two things at once.

I mostly just wish everyone would calm the fuck down. There's venom coming from every camp, it just so happens that in my experience the ones who are looking for fights support one specific candidate.

So if you're so worried about Bernie cultists self sabotaging the election because he has the most people who would only go for him, and you truly believe he was the number one reason why Clinton lost, you had better hope Sanders is the nom because the "vote blue no matter who" people will naturally just go for him, ensuring the best case against Trump, right?
I don't think he's the number one reason Clinton lost. She had way too much going against her in middle america and every time she spoke she erred on the "eat your veggies" side of things. When she told coal workers their jobs weren't coming back she lost an entire state. Trump lied to them and they ate it up. I do partially blame people who claim to be democrats for sitting out the election because they were upset over the primary. You don't get to do that when you're facing down a president like Trump.

The point is that the rationale you have for why people should be less militant about their future is based on a naive, fundamentally misguided understanding of the current state of politics.

Which again, is fine. But no one is obligated to take it seriously.
You're right, no one has to listen to me. At this point I'm venting to an anonymous board on the internet. I think politics has escalated because of us though. There has always been passion and hatred, but I've been around for a long time (voted for Dukakis in my first Presidential) and I've never seen anything like what happened in 2016 and what seems to be happening now. We're all guilty, and I wish we could all agree that regardless of the primary we need to vote out Trump. But we can't even do that.
 

demondance

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,750
I mostly just wish everyone would calm the fuck down. There's venom coming from every camp, it just so happens that in my experience the ones who are looking for fights support one specific candidate.
What do you call your previous posts before your mea culpa in this thread, if not looking for a fight?
 
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