Reuters: “I thought a woman could win; he [Sanders] disagreed,” Warren, a U.S. senator from Massachusetts, said in a statement.

demondance

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,750
User Warned: Antagonizing, Encouraging Inter-Community Feuds
I think I missed the link where it says they are staffers and Warren told them to link it.

Could you link it again, thanks
Do you think... non-staffers are "familiar" with a private meeting between two campaigns?

You're moving the goalpost to "Warren told them to" which is incredibly weasely. My post, that you quoted for your reply, was clear that there is no evidence of this.

I keep going back to this thing, that you poli-era guys are all about the details and understanding the 12D chess of American politics.... until moments like this. Then you shut your brains down and become children, when it's convenient.
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,277
Do you think... non-staffers are "familiar" with a private meeting between two campaigns?

You're moving the goalpost to "Warren told them to" which is incredibly weasely. My post, that you quoted for your reply, was clear that there is no evidence of this.

I keep going back to this thing, that you poli-era guys are all about the details and understanding the 12D chess of American politics.... until moments like this. Then you shut your brains down and become children, when it's convenient.
I read people using “poli-era” like this and more than anything it reminds me of how last week my six year old daughter said something was “so not fair” and when I asked how it was not fair she said “because I REALLY DON’T LIKE IT”
 

NH Apache

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,589
New Orleans, LA
Do you think... non-staffers are "familiar" with a private meeting between two campaigns?

You're moving the goalpost to "Warren told them to" which is incredibly weasely. My post, that you quoted for your reply, was clear that there is no evidence of this.

I keep going back to this thing, that you poli-era guys are all about the details and understanding the 12D chess of American politics.... until moments like this. Then you shut your brains down and become children, when it's convenient.
I'll edit my post and put it here.

I think I missed the link where it says they are staffers OR Warren told them to link it.

Could you link it again, thanks
That should take care of your goalpost issue.

Since you're so forward to provide information regarding the basis for the attacks on Warren, I'm sure that you can acknowledge that the attacks are factually baseless.
 

demondance

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,750
I read people using “poli-era” like this and more than anything it reminds me of how last week my six year old daughter said something was “so not fair” and when I asked how it was not fair she said “because I REALLY DON’T LIKE IT”
So here we go again. We're going to just pretend a thing that's existed for years isn't actually a real, identifiable entity, even though this entire site (and any forum) is a web of distinct, if informal communities. Pretending to be ignorant when it's convenient.
 

N. Tyranno

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,605
Facts can be as easily corrupted and refit to any ideology as anything else can. Of course they are important, but more important then an ideological platform and worldview? Probably not. Facts and data cannot make up for a lack of enthusiasm. Any prosecutor will tell you that what is more important then the facts, which need to be dealt with, is telling the more believable story. OJ Simpson clearly murdered somebody, so instead of trying to use the facts solely, they instead created a story where it was credible someone else could have done it, including details that are fact, like how the LAPD is an extremely racist organization.

I think what we can infer from the past 5 years is that people will be more engaged and devout to a worldview. Facts from DC think tanks and peer reviewed journals gave us 3 decades of neo-liberalism slowly eroding the quality of living of everyone in this country, because there was an ideology backing up those facts and acting on them. Its not hard to understand why people just tune out.



Interrogate it however you want. Yes I believe Bernie over Warren. This isn't going to work on me. I'll say it - Warren is lying at worst, and at the very least taking massive advantage of a clear cheap shot right before a debate as her poll numbers are in freefall with little chance to win in Iowa.

If you're going to start using "believe women" as a cudgel, its not going to go like you think it will.
this sounds like a lot of justification for putting “feelings” ahead of truth. The fact of the matter is, we’re discussing things, and even if you have more “enthusiasm” for Sanders, the rest of us are owed some measure of objectivity, especially when your “gut” places more importance on issues that many tribal or community leaders have said we need to move on from (that isn’t to say that all people have forgiven her, but that’s still a very large and important voice about her trustworthiness that deserves a hell of a lot more weight than anything a white person has to say).
 

warp

Banned
Jan 11, 2020
12
how does warren even still have such a wide base of support when her policies are basically bernie-lite with an added creepy obsession of pretending she's native american
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,277
I'll edit my post and put it here.



That should take care of your goalpost issue.

Since you're so forward to provide information regarding the basis for the attacks on Warren, I'm sure that you can acknowledge that the attacks are factually baseless.

This article makes it clear that the original reports came from people who had the details from Warren directly. It is hard to imagine that they were not members of her campaign. I think they clearly were.

However it also seems pretty clear that Warren did not sign off on this, based on her response.
 

Cymbal Head

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,668
This whole thing has been so inept. I don't know which is a worse look for Warren, a) that she approved this weak line of attack and had to immediately start walking it back, which makes her political instincts looks laughable, or b) some rogue element within her camp managed to make the initial story happen, which makes her campaign look like an undisciplined mess.
 

IMCaprica

Member
Aug 1, 2019
226
It’s really weird catching up on this story and having narratives shift from Sanders probably said it and his cult-y supporters are on the attack to ok cool Sanders didn’t say it so it’s a nothingburger why are Sanders supporters even mad now (but like Warren literally said he said the thing he denies and we need that to still be out there to keep jabbing Sanders).
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,277
So here we go again. We're going to just pretend a thing that's existed for years isn't actually a real, identifiable entity, even though this entire site (and any forum) is a web of distinct, if informal communities. Pretending to be ignorant when it's convenient.
I mean I’m poliera if anybody is and I don’t really know who the guy you’re referring to is, no offense buddy. Did you refer to some sort of official poliera directory before deciding that he was a “poliera guy?” Is there a certification exam? What’s the basis for your claim here other than that you dislike him? There are certainly a bunch of people who post in poliera frequently but that doesn’t mean everybody who disagrees with you is a member of the cabal. Maybe your post just attracts disagreement!
 

lacer

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,693
User banned (2 weeks): trolling, antagonizing other members, encouraging community in-fighting over multiple posts and threads
So here we go again. We're going to just pretend a thing that's existed for years isn't actually a real, identifiable entity, even though this entire site (and any forum) is a web of distinct, if informal communities. Pretending to be ignorant when it's convenient.
just be more specific and say 'poliera discord posters'
 

Deepwater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,352
I'll edit my post and put it here.



That should take care of your goalpost issue.

Since you're so forward to provide information regarding the basis for the attacks on Warren, I'm sure that you can acknowledge that the attacks are factually baseless.
you are correct in that it doesn’t cite them as campaign staffers. That does leave room for the sources not being officially employed by the campaign. However the amount of sources that were cited do leave me to believe at least one are affiliated with Warren’s campaign, unless Warren just gives up oppo research to surrogates all willy-nilly.

either way, doesn’t look good for warren.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,392
Well..after reading all of the takes regarding this 'debacle', all I can say is that this is some class A bullshit.

When you have the likes of Sally Albright, Joe Scarborough, Jonathan Chait and plenty others call this into question, just..lmao.

What a desperate move. All this does is derail the debate tonight, instead of discussing policies and actual things that matter, we'll focus on some petty shit.
 

jviggy43

Member
Oct 28, 2017
16,722
I read people using “poli-era” like this and more than anything it reminds me of how last week my six year old daughter said something was “so not fair” and when I asked how it was not fair she said “because I REALLY DON’T LIKE IT”
Maybe when blanket statements in that thread about all Bernie fans being trolls not worth responding to or talking with, gets criticized more closely we can start to begin to speculate if using the poliera moniker like people have been is unfair. But since it seems kosher to continue conflating bernie supporters with trump supporters here I imagine its all fair game. Which is unfortunate and unproductive for either group. Maybe we should take it upon ourselves as a community to just stop with the hyperbolic generalizations with people we disagree with, yeah?


Stop replying to Bernie trolls jesus guys
 
Mar 3, 2019
412
this sounds like a lot of justification for putting “feelings” ahead of truth. The fact of the matter is, we’re discussing things, and even if you have more “enthusiasm” for Sanders, the rest of us are owed some measure of objectivity, especially when your “gut” places more importance on issues that many tribal or community leaders have said we need to move on from (that isn’t to say that all people have forgiven her, but that’s still a very large and important voice about her trustworthiness that deserves a hell of a lot more weight than anything a white person has to say).
What are you talking about?
 

NH Apache

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,589
New Orleans, LA

This article makes it clear that the original reports came from people who had the details from Warren directly. It is hard to imagine that they were not members of her campaign. I think they clearly were.

However it also seems pretty clear that Warren did not sign off on this, based on her response.
I'd say it is very clear she didn't sign off on it, yes. This whole online campaign of revenge against Warren is based on very loose assumptions. The initial take from the Sanders community was that CNN was lying. After Wapo corroborated, MSM was lying. After Warren issued a statement, Warren was lying.

Sanders supporters should be more responsible with their online retribution campaigns.

And there is only one poster in here suggesting my takes are like a troll from the politics community on Era. The only community I'm a part of is Resetera.
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
11,894
a sunken pirate ship
Not sure what Warren is doing but she and her campaign seem all over the place.
There are a number of rumors a bunch of former Harris staff is now working on her campaign. I don't know if this is true but if it is, it would explain why they're making all these seemingly boneheaded campaign moves right after Harris dropped out. I would imagine there's some internal squabbling over the direction of the Warren campaign if so.
 

McBryBry

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,759
How is this a fight? Everything seems real iffy so idk if this even happened. And if it did, judging Bernie's history and previously stated opinions, I would put my money that he was referring to the rampant misogyny in this country, not being misogynistic himself.
 

SoZetaSlow

Member
Sep 20, 2019
896
There are a number of rumors a bunch of former Harris staff is now working on her campaign. I don't know if this is true but if it is, it would explain why they're making all these seemingly boneheaded campaign moves right after Harris dropped out. I would imagine there's some internal squabbling over the direction of the Warren campaign if so.
Pretty sure this started as an unsubstantiated, half joke, what if tweet in response to this scandal. So we really shouldn't give it the time of day to even mention it. At least not until theres confirmation one way or the other
 

demondance

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,750
I'd say it is very clear she didn't sign off on it, yes. This whole online campaign of revenge against Warren is based on very loose assumptions. The initial take from the Sanders community was that CNN was lying. After Wapo corroborated, MSM was lying. After Warren issued a statement, Warren was lying.

Sanders supporters should be more responsible with their online retribution campaigns.

And there is only one poster in here suggesting my takes are like a troll from the politics community on Era. The only community I'm a part of is Resetera.
"it's very clear she didn't sign off on it" -- guy who is trying to pin down objective facts

Pretty sure this started as an unsubstantiated, half joke, what if tweet in response to this scandal. So we really shouldn't give it the time of day to even mention it. At least not until theres confirmation one way or the other
I've only ever seen this as a joke. The closest I can think of is Tom Watson got hired like a day before this all happened, and I'm seeing jokes about that, too. I sincerely doubt he had anything to do with this because the timelines just don't add up. If he did, it was off the payroll, which seems ludicrous for a professional consultant.
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,652
Montreal
I posted this in US Poli Era,
I think both Sanders camp and Warren camp to be total morons.

Sanders camp are idiots for using Republican talking points for calling Warren "Elitist". That's full Horseshoe.
Warren camp are idiots for going public about a private conversation between Bernie and Liz where we don't know the context or the verbatim of what was said.

That said. Warren has more to lose because Sanders has his cult followers are vicious on social-media. There is no win for Warren on this, no room to grow to steal Sanders supporters. Bernie supporters are not going to move but Warren support is soft.

At the end of the day. Joe Biden is the big big winner.
Joe Biden can take a nap, take three weeks off, Biden is the winner by default without lifting a finger.

Joe Biden puts on sunglasses
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,277
Maybe when blanket statements in that thread about all Bernie fans being trolls not worth responding to or talking with, gets criticized more closely we can start to begin to speculate if using the poliera moniker like people have been is unfair. But since it seems kosher to continue conflating bernie supporters with trump supporters here I imagine its all fair game. Which is unfortunate and unproductive for either group. Maybe we should take it upon ourselves as a community to just stop with the hyperbolic generalizations with people we disagree with, yeah?
It's a little difficult to tell whether you mean this as a productive suggestion or as some kind of tit-for-tat declaration of moral righteousness, isn't it? But, sure, I agree. I've made a strong effort to push back on what I view as irrational Bernie hatred in the community thread. Hopefully you can do the same about irrational "poliera" hatred in OT threads like this. Then we'll both making a positive commitment to change! I would also invite you to post in the community thread, which apparently you read avidly, and to tell posters like that that they are dum dums directly. It's an open thread for the purpose of political discussion and everybody has equal rights to participate in it, unless they are Trump supporters.

I don't actually think that post was intended to suggest that all Bernie fans are trolls. Some are though! And in general we should avoid responding to trolls, shouldn't we?
 

Blue Skies

Member
Mar 27, 2019
6,359
how does warren even still have such a wide base of support when her policies are basically bernie-lite with an added creepy obsession of pretending she's native american
It’s not Bernie light, it’s more like, Bernie possible.
Bernie is just throwing IMPOSSIBLE promises out there, Warren is actually hammering out the details
 

mAcOdIn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
802
It’s not Bernie light, it’s more like, Bernie possible.
Bernie is just throwing IMPOSSIBLE promises out there, Warren is actually hammering out the details
Neither is hammering out details in the possibility sense because it's not funding that makes these things possible or not, it's votes and Supreme Court challenges.


That said, Bernie is my number 1 and Warren's my close number 2.
 

SoZetaSlow

Member
Sep 20, 2019
896
I've only ever seen this as a joke. The closest I can think of is Tom Watson got hired like a day before this all happened, and I'm seeing jokes about that, too. I sincerely doubt he had anything to do with this because the timelines just don't add up. If he did, it was off the payroll, which seems ludicrous for a professional consultant.
Unfortunately I've seen one or two people tweet it as a joke and people responding by deciding to take it as truth which isn't good but yeah, nobody credible is seriously trying to push the harris staffers narrative as far as I'm aware
 

jviggy43

Member
Oct 28, 2017
16,722
It's a little difficult to tell whether you mean this as a productive suggestion or as some kind of tit-for-tat declaration of moral righteousness, isn't it? But, sure, I agree. I've made a strong effort to push back on what I view as irrational Bernie hatred in the community thread. Hopefully you can do the same about irrational "poliera" hatred in OT threads like this. Then we'll both making a positive commitment to change! I would also invite you to post in the community thread, which apparently you read avidly, and to tell posters like that that they are dum dums directly. It's an open thread for the purpose of political discussion and everybody has equal rights to participate in it, unless they are Trump supporters.

I don't actually think that post was intended to suggest that all Bernie fans are trolls. Some are though! And in general we should avoid responding to trolls, shouldn't we?
No? Not really sure how you interpreted my post as anything other than maybe we all do a better job of tone policing our own groups of people now rather than let it spiral out of control in the second week of 2020, when things are going to become significantly worse in the following months. I would love to post more in that thread but as of now many posters dont feel its productive given the content like I quoted thats the norm for the kind of discourse in that community. I wont post all of it because I think my point is clear enough but needless to say thats the kind of rhetoric that people are talking about in these threads when they say poli era. Also I reported that person and didn't get a response, I don't think it would be particularly useful for me to engage with someone making such radical, toxic blanket statements

And sure, trolls should be avoided. The problem was that post was made regarding posters who 100% werent trolling and were trying to converse in good faith. So I don't really see the relevance of bringing up trolls in this instance.
 

Fantastical

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,705
It’s not Bernie light, it’s more like, Bernie possible.
Bernie is just throwing IMPOSSIBLE promises out there, Warren is actually hammering out the details
Yes like M4A with no tax increase on middle class. Falling into a right-wing "look here, not here" trap when it comes to how much people would actually be paying.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
10,239
I like how after I said Sanders fans have made Etcetera fucking intolerable, one of them decided to prove me right by searching through my post history to figure out if I was a "true believer."
 

demondance

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,750
It’s not Bernie light, it’s more like, Bernie possible.
Bernie is just throwing IMPOSSIBLE promises out there, Warren is actually hammering out the details
Neither of them have "possible" plans. Did we forget the entirety of Obama's run? Is there a blank space in the universe where Mitch McConnell is supposed to exist?

Sanders makes it clear he needs a movement behind him. That's always been the point, if you've been paying attention at all. The fight starts when he gets elected, and you come in with these big demands behind you. Not compromise positions that you intend to compromise even further on.

Literally anything a democratic president wants is fucked, at the moment. Sanders and everybody else are in the same position.

A democratic president pushing a public option is just as unlikely as anything else you could possibly put on the table. We need to at least start building the groundwork to show there is teeth behind the movement to get more.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,682
It’s not Bernie light, it’s more like, Bernie possible.
Bernie is just throwing IMPOSSIBLE promises out there, Warren is actually hammering out the details
nothings getting passed by anyone with the double firewall of the senate and the pyschotic right wing judiciary ready to declare anything good unconstitutional which they will. we will have to fight for EVERY inch and build a movement, and Sanders has the best platform for that.
 

NH Apache

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,589
New Orleans, LA
"it's very clear she didn't sign off on it" -- guy who is trying to pin down objective facts



I've only ever seen this as a joke. The closest I can think of is Tom Watson got hired like a day before this all happened, and I'm seeing jokes about that, too. I sincerely doubt he had anything to do with this because the timelines just don't add up. If he did, it was off the payroll, which seems ludicrous for a professional consultant.
I think you miss the difference - I'm not using assumptions to attack anyone. I know I'm really pushing the envelope by requesting you do the same.
 

Blue Skies

Member
Mar 27, 2019
6,359
Sanders makes it clear he needs a movement behind him. That's always been the point, if you've been paying attention at all. The fight starts when he gets elected, and you come in with these big demands behind you. Not compromise positions that you intend to compromise even further on.
this is the worst fucking strategy ever.
this would lead to
A: Shit not getting done for at least 2 years
B: the “movement” losing hope as nothing happens
C: a return to centrism.

the plan can’t be: ”you’ll see”
 

demondance

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,750
this is the worst fucking strategy ever.
this would lead to
A: Shit not getting done for at least 2 years
B: the “movement” losing hope as nothing happens
C: a return to centrism.

the plan can’t be: ”you’ll see”
When has any major structural change ever happened in the U.S. without movement politics behind it?
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,652
Montreal
Bernie crossed the line by going Horseshoe for calling Warren "Elitist"
Warren broke friend confidentiality by revealing words from a private conversation out in public the day before a debate.

Both need the others' support. Both are doing the opposite LOL
 

Blue Skies

Member
Mar 27, 2019
6,359
Wtf is this movement y’all keep mentioning?

Unless the movement is:
Organize around progressive candidates across the country BEFORE November 2020, then it will all be pointless.
 

Gaf Zombie

The Fallen
Dec 13, 2017
1,254
how does warren even still have such a wide base of support when her policies are basically bernie-lite with an added creepy obsession of pretending she's native american
I can only speak for myself obviously but I like them both. I just better trust Warren's understanding of the how to get things. She has achievements that demonstrate not only her ideological drive, but her grasp of how to pull the requisite political levers. Ideals are nothing without a solid, realistic plan to make it so. Plus, she's a fellow indigenous person.
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,277
No? Not really sure how you interpreted my post as anything other than maybe we all do a better job of tone policing our own groups of people now rather than let it spiral out of control
Well, mostly because it doesn't contain any commitment for you to do any tone policing, it's just a demand that poliera posters do more of it, and a suggestion that if we would just do a better job we wouldn't get personally attacked. Why don't you be clear about what you, personally, intend to do to improve the situation, rather than just making demands on others?

I would love to post more in that thread but as of now many posters dont feel its productive given the content like I quoted thats the norm for the kind of discourse in that community.
It's an internet message board, nothing we do here is productive. Be the change.