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Rewatching Star Wars 4-6: TLJ got Luke Right.

Oct 25, 2017
4,776
So is he the same or is he different?

To me it makes more sense that Luke would be even more in control of his emotions in his old age but still have his belief in the good in people since he’s seen it first hand in the most vile person.

But what I’m supposed to believe is that Luke is still struggling with his emotions from his youth but has lost his belief in people.

It’s not an easy sell.
He’s seen some shit in his life. It’s obviously effected him. He gave up. He felt he already gave it his all and it got him nowhere.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,399
He’s seen some shit in his life. It’s obviously effected him. He gave up. He felt he already gave it his all and it got him nowhere.
Which is bad writing in the first place. By saying episode 4,5,6 didn’t mean anything lol. This new trilogy is utter shit absolutely nothing interesting about it. IMO of course.
 
Oct 26, 2017
15,426
So what did he sense about his Nephew?
No kidding, if something's making the man who fought Darth Vader make this face, then clearly there's something very very wrong:



Which is bad writing in the first place. By saying episode 4,5,6 didn’t mean anything lol.
"Character is not infallible at an older age" is not bad writing, nor does it indicate that he never grew.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,555
Plus the movie kind wants it both ways. The reason Luke is off in exile and depressed and cut off from the force is because of his guilt in playing a part in pushing Ben to the dark. But then it also wants you to buy that Ben was bad from day one so its not really Luke's fault.
That's not really what they're saying. They're saying that Ben Solo had the darkness inside him but was in conflict, which is what Luke sensed. However, Luke doing what he did resulted in Ben Solo fully turning to the darkness.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,451
now that people mention that kylo burn the academy that same night.

it just hit me, Kylo already have convinced a bunch of students to rebel against Luke.

i mean come on, Kylo is good but is he good enough to take on several force sensitive with their own lightsabers students?

he had already plan to destroy it all.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,127
Which is bad writing in the first place. By saying episode 4,5,6 didn’t mean anything lol. This new trilogy is utter shit absolutely nothing interesting about it. IMO of course.
If the movie made Luke completely perfect and just ready at a moment's notice to train Rey in the force, take off with her to fight the FO and then do a completely repeat of Kenobi's fight. THAT, would be bad writing, because that's just copying ANH. Often a lot of people complain about Star Wars ripping off itself, but a lot of people sure do want either Luke to have insane Force Unleashed-esqe powers or a rip-off of the Kenobi-Yoda Arcs but for Luke.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,276
They directly address this right in the film itself. The "legend" of Luke Skywalker is not Luke Skywalker. Half of that seemed to be aimed right at the audience.
 
Nov 3, 2017
6,111
Portland, OR
From what I can tell you are basically saying that the last Jedi got Luke right because he makes mistakes in the same fashion he did in the original trilogy. Lukes actions in The last Jedi are fine IMO but your argument in favor of the writing is shitty.

What bothered me about his role in the last Jedi was the tone, not Luke’s actions
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,699
Which is bad writing in the first place. By saying episode 4,5,6 didn’t mean anything lol. This new trilogy is utter shit absolutely nothing interesting about it. IMO of course.
Nope. It incorporates the themes and lessons of episodes 1,2,3 with 4,5, and 6. After seeing how inhenerntly blind and corrupt the Jedi Order is in the Prequel trilogy we can't view Luke trying to rebuild the Order at the end of Jedi as a good thing. Both the Sith and the Jedi got it wrong. After indoctrinating your nephew into a failed system you dedicated 30 years of your life to it makes sense why Luke was depressed.
 
Oct 26, 2017
15,426
now that people mention that kylo burn the academy that same night.

it just hit me, Kylo already have convinced a bunch of students to rebel against Luke.

i mean come on, Kylo is good but is he good enough to take on several force sensitive with their own lightsabers students?

he had already plan to destroy it all.
Also...





Ofc we don't have every single miniscule detail, (that thing the prequels tried to do). But we have plenty to go on. Was Kylo already thinking about making a crossguard saber or clever visual foreshadowing. Who knows? That's part of what makes the newer films fun. A backstory full of compelling ideas is allowed to exist.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,004
Luke was the best part of TLJ no contest and follows up on two trilogies of unresolved buildup involving the hypocrisy and hubris of the Jedi as an institution. He finally tackles the questions he should have been asking 30 years ago.

He didn't beat the Emperor and redeem Anakin by following directions. He learned what he felt he needed from Yoda and Obi and then he skipped out on them to go his own way. And the moment he left they instantly considered him a lost cause and started considering Leia instead. But you know what? He won. And not only did he defeat the emperor, but he redeemed Vader, too. Who the Jedi had also considered a lost cause. They were wrong, and have been wrong for decades.

But Luke still looked up to them. He wanted to bring them back. Then the moment he tries to be a good little jedi again and rebuild the order as it was, it all goes right back to shit again. Because he never tackled the root problem.

Luke realizing that the Jedi were not what they should be and going his own way is directly rooted in the PT and OT trilogies, it's literally what he did in ESB and ROTJ and this is the ultimate conclusion of that. And now it's Rey's turn to take the lessons Luke learned and use them to create a better order. That's what Luke has grown beyond.

Some may not find that as exciting as showing up with a laser sword and taking down the entire first order but it does tackle questions that needed to be tackled. And I'm hoping TROS finishes what TLJ started in a satisfying way.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
1,399
Nope. It incorporates the themes and lessons of episodes 1,2,3 with 4,5, and 6. After seeing how inhenerntly blind and corrupt the Jedi Order is in the Prequel trilogy we can't view Luke trying to rebuild the Order at the end of Jedi as a good thing. Both the Sith and the Jedi got it wrong. After indoctrinating your nephew into a failed system you dedicated 30 years of your life to it makes sense why Luke was depressed.
Your thinking too much. This will be retconned in a few months .
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,451
The only reason Luke is the way he is in TLJ is because the plot/script needed him to be. How contrived.
this argument i keep reading and reading and not only about TLJ but about a lot of movies too

"the only reason that happened was because the plot demanded it"

NO FUCKING SHIT SHERLOCK IS A FUCKING WORK OF FICTION.
 
Oct 28, 2017
9,441
California
this argument i keep reading and reading and not only about TLJ but about a lot of movies too

"the only reason that happened was because the plot demanded it"

NO FUCKING SHIT SHERLOCK IS A FUCKING WORK OF FICTION.
THEY DIDNT DO IT IN A WAY THAT FUCKING FELT NATURAL OR EARNED.

OK I’m going to use my inside voice now.
 

SG-17

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,925
They directly address this right in the film itself. The "legend" of Luke Skywalker is not Luke Skywalker. Half of that seemed to be aimed right at the audience.
Just because Rian Johnson felt he needed to be middle school levels of subversive with TLJ doesn't mean that the "Legend" of Luke Skywalker wasn't also actually Luke Skywalker. We saw what Luke did in the OT. We saw what kind of person he was and the kind of person he grew into.

Rian made Luke into a coward with TLJ, something he never was or even close to.

JJ had left Luke going to The First Jedi Temple open-ended with the end of TFA. It was Rian's choice to turn him into a coward who ran away.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,127
Just because Rian Johnson felt he needed to be middle school levels of subversive
Deconstructive. Luke not killing the Emperor, but Vader doing so is Subversive.

IMO it will be. Most of it if the trailer is any indication.
They really can't, it'll maybe appease the internet commentators for one movie, but it'll piss off half of the Star Wars fanbase for sure.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,399
Just because Rian Johnson felt he needed to be middle school levels of subversive with TLJ doesn't mean that the "Legend" of Luke Skywalker wasn't also actually Luke Skywalker. We saw what Luke did in the OT. We saw what kind of person he was and the kind of person he grew into.

Rian made Luke into a coward with TLJ, something he never was or even close to.

JJ had left Luke going to The First Jedi Temple open-ended with the end of TFA. It was Rian's choice to turn him into a coward who ran away.
Very good post friend. Rian Johnson have no idea about Star Wars. Biggest example is Jedi and casino planet plot and Luke I mean what was he thinking lol.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,776
Which is bad writing in the first place. By saying episode 4,5,6 didn’t mean anything lol. This new trilogy is utter shit absolutely nothing interesting about it. IMO of course.
4,5, and 6 is what made him who he was though? Thats what turned him into an old bitter man.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,235
Arkansas
Luke's initial instinct passed in an instant
I swear people only pay attention to the words spoken in the movie and nothing else.

You’re the king of TLJ gifs. I dare you to gif that scene and still claim it’s merely a flash of instinct that’s over in an instant.

Luke never saw the things Vader did, hell I don't think he even saw the dude force choke anybody. He personally experienced what kylo had done.
So do think there’s still good in Kylo?
 
Oct 28, 2017
6,481
New Jersey
JJ had left Luke going to The First Jedi Temple open-ended with the end of TFA
No, Luke walking away from everything was established by Abrams and Kasdan in TFA. What he was doing looking for the first Jedi Temple was open-ended, but walking away from everything and allowing the tyranny of the First Order to rise in his absence was already firmly established in episode 7.

Han: This map's not complete. It's just a piece. Ever since Luke disappeared, people have been looking for him.
Rey: Why did he leave?
Han: He was training a new generation of Jedi. There was nobody else left to do it, so he took the burden on himself. Everything was going great, until... one boy, an apprentice, turned against him and destroyed it all. Luke felt responsible. He just...walked away from everything.
Finn: Do you know what happened to him?
Han: There were a lot of rumors. Stories. People who knew him best, think he went looking for the first Jedi temple.
 
Oct 30, 2017
835
The portrayal of Luke was fine. I just felt it all came a bit too soon, they should have saved it for the final film. They could have run with the self centrednes a little longer, gone with the self absorbed hermit who gave everything up in because things were not going his way. Living on glories of the past.


It just felt a little rushed.
 
Oct 26, 2017
15,426
IMO it will be. Most of it if the trailer is any indication.
Literally the first line in the trailer reinforces the theme of TLJ and the ST overall. Luke literally talks about how they've passed the baton.

I swear people only pay attention to the words spoken in the movie.

You’re the king of TLJ gifs. I dare you to gif that scene and still claim it’s merely a flash of instinct that’s over in an instant.


Mark Hamill put in so much work when it came to this movie. It literally passes in an instant. The literal second that saber ignites.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,127
I swear people only pay attention to the words spoken in the movie.
I feel the same way in these threads. I've had the running theory that people arguing movies on the internet mostly go to theaters and use their phones for most of the showings they attend.
 

SG-17

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,925
No, Luke walking away from everything was established by Abrams and Kasdan in TFA. What he was doing looking for the first Jedi Temple was open-ended, but walking away from everything and allowing the tyranny of the First Order to rise in his absence was already firmly established in episode 7.

Han: This map's not complete. It's just a piece. Ever since Luke disappeared, people have been looking for him.
Rey: Why did he leave?
Han: He was training a new generation of Jedi. There was nobody else left to do it, so he took the burden on himself. Everything was going great, until... one boy, an apprentice, turned against him and destroyed it all. Luke felt responsible. He just...walked away from everything.
Finn: Do you know what happened to him?
Han: There were a lot of rumors. Stories. People who knew him best, think he went looking for the first Jedi temple.
Han's last line contradicts the point you are trying to make.

All we knew was that Luke left and apparently was looking for the First Jedi Temple. We didn't know what he was looking for within the Temple or what he planned to do once he got there.

Never once did they say that Luke just gave up and ran away. That is not the tone or implication of that exchange.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,776
They directly address this right in the film itself. The "legend" of Luke Skywalker is not Luke Skywalker. Half of that seemed to be aimed right at the audience.
Exactly. It’s clear from TFA it was going somewhat this way. It’s sad that some fans wanted the perfect hero to arrive and fuck shit up as the most powerful Jedi ever.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,153
California
The broken depressed Luke we got in TLJ had no emotional or redeeming qualities to me. The death of Han carried more emotional weight. Idk, all the old characters just feel like they are there for fan service/plot devices instead of being the meaningful characters they were in the original trilogy.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,451
JJ had left Luke going to The First Jedi Temple open-ended with the end of TFA. It was Rian's choice to turn him into a coward who ran away.
well he always been a coward, if he was a man he should have accepted death on ESB.

instead he throw himself.

what afucking coward
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,127
No, Luke walking away from everything was established by Abrams and Kasdan in TFA. What he was doing looking for the first Jedi Temple was open-ended, but walking away from everything and allowing the tyranny of the First Order to rise in his absence was already firmly established in episode 7.
It's always amusing that everyone blames Rian Johnson for Luke being depressed but fucking Lawrence Kasdan and Abrams established this in movie 1 without any influence from him. Honestly, just seeing anyone blame Rian Johnson for this is the first indicator the person is mostly speaking from a place of just being a hater rather than actually looking at all the films.

Never once did they say that Luke just gave up and ran away.
Re-read what you just quote, because what you replied to blatantly proved everything you just said was utter bullshit.
 
Oct 28, 2017
6,481
New Jersey
Han's last line contradicts the point you are trying to make.

All we knew was that Luke left and apparently was looking for the First Jedi Temple. We didn't know what he was looking for within the Temple or what he planned to do once he got there.
No it doesn't. He says it right there. Luke felt responsible and walked away from everything. That is a fact. People don't know where he is or what the hell he's up to. You just assumed he was out somewhere learning some Jedi secrets or something but being a coward and walking away from everything is a set-up carried over from TFA. Rian Johnson didn't create that set-up, he simply built off it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,796
It's amazing how people think JJ or Kennedy wasn't deeply involved in the process of TLJ. Kennedy fired the Solo directors after a majority of the movie was filmed because it wasn't what the studio envisioned.

Rise of Skywalker won't retcon TLJ, it will build off of it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,776
How can RoTJ turn him into an old bitter man? Didn’t you see the ending ? He was at peace and was proud to see anakin back to the LS.
TLJ didnt start right after ROTJ. He watched slowly as everything he did went back to the way it was. He lost hope. Soldiers that come home from the war are at peace initially. Then over the years that shit fucks with you’re head. Some happy young men eventually turn to bitter old men over the years.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,127
It's amazing how people think JJ or Kennedy wasn't deeply involved in the process of TLJ. Kennedy fired the Solo directors after a majority of the movie was filmed because it wasn't what the studio envisioned.

Rise of Skywalker won't retcon TLJ, it will build off of it.
People do carry over a lot of TLJ hate onto Kennedy. Surprisingly, little onto JJ who was the reason we even have Luke on that planet for so many years.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,235
Arkansas
Yet we see kylo as a man, it's clearly Adam Driver, right there in the scene, very clearly an adult, I suppose kylo is a child during the battle on crait too because Luke calls him a kid,


it's almost like adults tend to refer to people half their age as kids. People have by far the strangest reading of dialogue when it comes to the last two films like, rational thought at zero. Like I know we got three movies full of terrible stilted dialogue so bad that literally every line is meme status but good grief. :|
Eyes of a scared boy is not see you around kid. This is some weak spin.



Mark Hamill put in so much work when it came to this movie. It literally passes in an instant. The literal second that saber ignites.
Lol you cut like half of it where he slowly pulls his saber off his belt and it still fails to look like a flash of instinct over in an instant. What exactly is he contemplating all that time with his saber in hand before he ignites it?
 
Oct 26, 2017
726
Sadly that's what I disliked the most about TLJ. I built Luke up to be some Superman-esc Jedi, which really isn't the case of who he is as a character. Thats totally on me, I know.