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Rewatching Star Wars 4-6: TLJ got Luke Right.
- Thread starter Drek
- Start date
Instinct inherently implies inborn/innate impulse, inclination, intuition; "intend" implies intention, initiative, ideation.
You can have an unintended instinctual response.
Kind of different scenarios considering vader was fighting luke and was an evil murderer. Kylo was just his own family member sleeping at that point.
I threw this together last year during a similar thread and I feel it sums it up nicely. That IS Luke Skywalker and the core of what makes him such a good character. He is reckless and impulsive. His compulsiveness brings him close to throwing it all away, but he always comes to senses. That's why people love him. There is much more to him other than looking cool while force choking pig people or being a badass with a lightsaber, which are the types of characters that Star Wars has in spades.
It feels like TLJ was made to destroy every single one of those expectations to ground those in the fanbase that thought Luke was a literal god because decades of time passing by and nostalgia built him like that.
Luke had a sudden force vision of the absolute evil Ben would become, and the destruction he would wreak. We know from TFA that these visions are visceral, and feel real.
I mostly agree
Not regarding Star Wars but just film writing in general.
Unfortunately, it got far more wrong
Not regarding Star Wars but just film writing in general.
I don't think we are on the same page exactly. Yoda + Obi-Wan = Dogmatic balance. For example, Qui-Gon trusted his feelings and the force and insisted on training Anakin. If Darth Maul hadn't killed him everything would have been different.
Obi-Wan + Yoda insist that Luke ought to kill Vader/Palpatine and that it's the only way. Well yeah sometimes you have to fight for your life, but Luke goes against those teachings and decides to trust his feelings and the force. It works.
When I talk about a wandering Jedi I'm talking about someone who isn't obsessed with balance, just someone connected to the living force, seeking to bring about peace when confronted with a problem while roaming around the galaxy.
The best part is that TLJ is literally about the perils of putting your heroes on a pedestal and expecting them to be paragons instead of people. Y'know, just like some vocal parts of the fandom have been doing to Luke (and, indeed, Vader) for decades.
No we're in agreement. I jumped the gun at "gray jedi" and it's old implications regarding balance and conflated keeping the peace with taking a neutral position. My bad.
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No worries. It's nice to have fun and interesting discussion about Star Wars again. I truly hope that TJL haters just take a one way trip to the outer rim and never come back...
also different because Vader was Vader regardless whereas Kylo went to the dark side on Luke's watch
You dont think that MAYBE after something like the ending of RotJ he might have some sort of trauma that could induce something
I was more or less going to type this out. Remember, he looked into Kylo's mind and he was basically fantasizing about murdering everyone gleefully. I'm hoping Rise Of Skywalker will give us just a little more behind what happend to Kylo.
Snoke planted the illusion of a dream for Luke to find.
Just kidding.
This is so true. The theme is paralleled in Rose fangirling over Finn as well .
Wow, RotJ went way over your head
Thank you. Completely agree OP. I was saying this back when TLJ first released and it was like I was kicking people's puppies.
TLJ is the greatest Star Wars movie ever made, topping ESB. I don't expect a SW film in my lifetime to pull off that feat again.
ESB > TLJ > ANH > ROTJ = TFA for me, but it's obviously subjective as hell.
For me it goes (just the Skywalker Saga films)
TLJ > ESB > ANH > TFA > ROTJ > ROTS > TPM > AOTC
I'm a big fan of TLJ but can't agree with this. Luke's arc in the OT is incredible.
Throwing the spin-offs into the mix:
TLJ > ESB > ANH > TFA > ROTJ > RO > ROTS > SOLO > TPM > AOTC
TLJ > ESB > ANH > TFA > ROTJ > RO > ROTS > SOLO > TPM > AOTC
now imagine if people went on and on about how Return of the Jedi ruined Luke because he would never consider killing his father
I threw this together last year during a similar thread and I feel it sums it up nicely. That IS Luke Skywalker and the core of what makes him such a good character. He is reckless and impulsive. His compulsiveness brings him close to throwing it all away, but he always comes to senses. That's why people love him. There is much more to him other than looking cool while force choking pig people or being a badass with a lightsaber, which are the types of characters that Star Wars has in spades.
i still cant figure out why old man luke gives a fuck about the sacred texts, as much as the rest of the TLJ portrayal makes no sense to me, thats about the biggest.
He literally founded a Jedi temple and was teaching the next generation of Jedi when Ben destroyed everything.
Why would he NOT care about the last remaining vestige of the religion he was trying to keep alive?
Luke is a man divided. His failures lead him to the conclusion that the Jedi must end, yet he cannot divest himself of the past. This is his struggle the entire film.
Um, I mean, the movie itself actually confirms it with what Luke does at the end soooo......
I threw this together last year during a similar thread and I feel it sums it up nicely. That IS Luke Skywalker and the core of what makes him such a good character. He is reckless and impulsive. His compulsiveness brings him close to throwing it all away, but he always comes to senses. That's why people love him. There is much more to him other than looking cool while force choking pig people or being a badass with a lightsaber, which are the types of characters that Star Wars has in spades.
What are you implying, that we have to keep fighting our demons our entire lives? I thought we could just defeat them once and then be perfect.
Yeah Luke was always flawed and made serious mistakes (unlike Rey arguably), but it made him interesting. Still, at an older age you expect more wisdom and maturity. Becoming a loser and a quitter didn't feel likely for his character, yet that's what he became.
The magnitude of his failure was...vast. I can't blame him going to a dark place.
I can't really either, but it doesn't jive with the effort to find Arch-To.
"What he does at the end"? You mean defeating his conflicted father, who doesn't actually want to kill him and has lost to other people in his prime? I'm not trying to downplay it, but it certainly doesn't make Luke the strongest Jedi of all time.