I don't even get how Luke's impulse to kill Kylo in TLJ goes against what we saw in ROTJ.
He nearly murdered Vader, well past the point where he could defend himself, over the insinuation that he'll try and get Leia to switch sides.
Then he took a moment to cool off and realize that wasn't the right thing to do. Just like he did with Kylo, except even faster. He ignited the blade and then immediately decided against it.
But yeah keep saying TLJ Luke murders children (Kylo looked like a teenager by that point anyway, not exactly a defenseless youngling) or whatever.
The fuck?
He literally became not just a space nazi but THE space nazi.
Add Luke to that ghost lineup and I think we've got ourselves another ending ;)
He saw a force vision of what Kylo would become, (that came true btw), he reacted on instinct to said vision before immediately coming back to his senses.Luke only saw that because he pulled out his lightsaber on Ben.
You don't do something that devastating if you weren't already messed up in some way. The reason Luke went to check on him in the first place was because he knew something was up.He'd never done anything prior to Luke going into his bedroom.
Nah, your wrong. Luke was a completely different character by RotJ and he grew into a good Jedi.
Rian Johnson got the character wrong. Simple. It wasn't awful, but it wasn't right.
the man who played Luke hates how Luke was portrayed in TLJ
I don't know what else you people want
I have my issues with TLJ but none of them are related to Luke.
Space Leia is much worse
It looked stupid as hell above any space fantasy logic one can throw at itObviously Leia is going to be force sensitive, you think she sat on her ass doing nothing for thirty years?
The same Luke who thought Vader could be redeemed just gave up on Kylo. "Lost cause, not worth the time, let the Sith have the Galaxy instead."
You do realize Luke was close to killing Vader before he regained his composure? Luke has always been a very impulsive character, it's a major flaw of his. It's why it's understandable that he had that 1 second thought of killing Ben until realizing that it was a stupid move. Unfortunately for him, Ben woke up and interprets that event differently.
His perspective on the idea of redemption changed after he personally lost everything he had built and witnessed the death and destruction firsthand. This all makes complete sense.
Are you being sarcastic?The Last Jedi killed all the hype I had for Episode 9. Not being hyperbolic here.
And the reason why The Last Jedi killed all my hype for Episode 9 was precisely for they way Luke was portrayed. Before TLJ happened, Luke was supposed to be the most powerful Jedi ever. It really hurt when Rey was able to defeat him on the island.
And Luke should not have been a projection in the final scene against Kylo. He should have been there, showing lots of Jedi skills... maybe defeating all those AT-AT vehicles by himself using the Force or something.
I agree it makes sense for those who say it does. It was just written poorly as shit. Their failure was in selling me on half their ideas in The Last Jedi.It might make sense to you but it does not to me. The character of Luke from the OT was a hopeful and positive one by the end of RotJ. He strived to see the best in people, not the worst, and the Luke from RotJ would not have tried to kill the son of Han and Leia in his sleep. He also would not have given up hope and fled to hide on a faraway planet in solitude to leave his friends and family to fend for themselves. Not in my opinion at least, and not in Mark's opinion either I might add.
Maybe you enjoyed Luke from TLJ, but he was terribly disappointing to me. It felt like Luke's character had been written by someone who hated the character IMHO.
I guess that kind of contextualizes some of the complaints for me in a different way. I was wondering why so many people saw Luke as an interesting hero and wanted something that sounded really corny and unnuanced to me.People were exposed to over 3 decades of EU material where Luke didn't do much of anything besides be the SW equivalent of goku. A near flawless man who did hilariously ludicrous things with the force.
Kylo burned down the Jedi temple, gathered the future Knights of Ren and massacred the remaining students that night. It's implied the Kylo was already scheming something before Luke came into his bedroom. Luke just moved up the timetable.He'd never done anything prior to Luke going into his bedroom.
I love Hammilbbut he has the most ridiculous ideas. He thought joe would randomly show up on starkiller base to fight Ben.the man who played Luke hates how Luke was portrayed in TLJ
I don't know what else you people want
It looked stupid as hell above any space fantasy logic one can throw at it
Yet both times Luke stopped juuust short of killing the other person with a lightsaber ignited in his hand.Luke was baited into it with manipulation by an opponent with a weapon.
Kylo was asleep.
I thought it was really out of place. Even people around me watching the movie felt the same way.Star Wars has a shit ton of unrealistic and silly moments but Leia using the force to pull herself into the ship is where you draw the line?
He saw a force vision of what Kylo would become, (that came true btw), he reacted on instinct to said vision before immediately coming back to his senses.
You don't do something that devastating if you weren't already messed up in some way. The reason Luke went to check on him in the first place was because he knew something was up.
You know people change in 30 years? How do you know what Luke would or wouldn't do? I get shocked daily how many good people I grew up with turn out to be garbage later on in life. One of my best friends growing up is serving life for shooting someone in the head. When I was told, I didn't believe it. People change.I think I'm OK with Luke being a failure at the start of TLJ. However, the Luke at the end of ROTJ would not have ignited his lightsaber over his sleeping nephew. People can talk about the "force vision" he received but I hope people can understand that there's just an absolutely massive leap between having a vision of something possibly occurring in the future and then pulling a weapon on your own blood while they're sleeping.
So does pushing a Star Destroyer into a force field with a ship, yet that scene in Rogue One gets barely any notice except for being "cool".It looked stupid as hell above any space fantasy logic one can throw at it
He saw a force vision of what Kylo would become, (that came true btw), he reacted on instinct to said vision before immediately coming back to his senses.
You don't do something that devastating if you weren't already messed up in some way. The reason Luke went to check on him in the first place was because he knew something was up.
I think I'm OK with Luke being a failure at the start of TLJ. However, the Luke at the end of ROTJ would not have ignited his lightsaber over his sleeping nephew. People can talk about the "force vision" he received but I hope people can understand that there's just an absolutely massive leap between having a vision of something possibly occurring in the future and then pulling a weapon on your own blood while they're sleeping.
Skywalker eventually became aware of the darkness which threatened his nephew's soul. He felt a dark movement in the Force, which eventually brought him to his nephew's bedroom one evening. Standing over his sleeping student, Skywalker reached out and sensed an evil, corrupting influence within Ben. The immediacy and severity of the threat caused the Jedi Master to instinctively draw his lightsaber, intending even for a brief moment to kill his apprentice, though the desire to kill his nephew vanished in an instant, and Skywalker was immediately filled with shame.
I swear people only paid attention to Kylo's version of events and nothing else. Luke didn't attempt to murder Kylo. He instinctually reacted to a force vision of death and destruction. Force visions are incredibly visceral and realistic:It might make sense to you but it does not to me. The character of Luke from the OT was a hopeful and positive one by the end of RotJ. He strived to see the best in people, not the worst, and the Luke from RotJ would not have tried to kill the son of Han and Leia in his sleep.
That Luke hadn't experienced the tragedy that his older incarnation would, we don't know how we'd react to trauma unless we experience it ourselves.He also would not have given up hope and fled to hide on a faraway planet in solitude to leave his friends and family to fend for themselves
Luke never saw the things Vader did, hell I don't think he even saw the dude force choke anybody. He personally experienced what kylo had done.Which is exactly the situation I just explained rings false.
Nothing Kylo does is worse than Vader.
Luke is a good person who can be reckless and often panics when he's afraid.
ESB: Suddenly abandons his Jedi training after he sees a vision of Han and Leia on Bespin, falls into Vader's trap, loses his hand and barely escapes capture.
ROTJ: The Emperor taunts him which causes him to lash out and try to decapitate him, Vader has to stop him. Later when Vader threatens to turn Leia he attacks in a blind rage, cuts his fathers arm off and is seconds away from killing him before he comes to his senses.
TLJ: A vision of his nephew's murderous future frightens him into drawing his lightsaber which he immediately regrets.
I don't really see any inconsistency in the character. Sure you can say that OT Luke would never give up, and he probably wouldn't, but 30 years have passed and Luke made a terrible mistake that destroyed his academy and pushed his nephew to the dark side. It's understandable that he would become depressed and think the galaxy was better off without him. Eventually he got over it, accepted his mistake and rejoined the fight in a tremendous display of his skill with the Force. I thought it was a poignant and bittersweet way to handle the character.
Luke was baited into it with manipulation by an opponent with a weapon.
Kylo was asleep.
Hopefully JJ will erase everything that happened in TLJ.
Real ending of Luke story :
Kylo burned down the Jedi temple, gathered the future Knights of Ren and massacred the remaining students that night. It's implied the Kylo was already scheming something before Luke came into his bedroom. Luke just moved up the timetable.
Yet we see kylo as a man, it's clearly Adam Driver, right there in the scene, very clearly an adult, I suppose kylo is a child during the battle on crait too because Luke calls him a kid,
Hopefully JJ will erase everything that happened in TLJ.
Real ending of Luke story :
We have no idea he if actually strove to see the best in people because he spent RotJ only trying to redeem Vader and the only reason he was doing that was because he could, and I quote, "sense the good in Vader." Bearing in mind Vader at that point was responsible for a ton of horrific War Crimes in addition to the horrible things he was still trying to do (like help create another Planet Destroying Weapon) and it only took Luke to just "sense" the good to suddenly have his mind made up on Vader.It might make sense to you but it does not to me. The character of Luke from the OT was a hopeful and positive one by the end of RotJ. He strived to see the best in people, not the worst, and the Luke from RotJ would not have tried to kill the son of Han and Leia in his sleep.
If Hamil has some fanfiction then you go read that, but Hamil's opinion should hold so much weight. That should also be especially true when he's been so dodgy on what he's actually trying to say and everyone only takes 1 or two words of what he does say.Not in my opinion at least, and not in Mark's opinion either I might add.
You know people change in 30 years? How do you know what Luke would or wouldn't do? I get shocked daily how many good people I grew up with turn out to be garbage later on in life. One of my best friends growing up is serving life for shooting someone in the head. When I was told, I didn't believe it. People change.
Plus the movie kind wants it both ways. The reason Luke is off in exile and depressed and cut off from the force is because of his guilt in playing a part in pushing Ben to the dark. But then it also wants you to buy that Ben was bad from day one so its not really Luke's fault.