Rewriting Ripley: How White Supremacy, Misogyny, and Hate Targeted the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy (The Last Jedi) and Won

[Aztechnology]

I don't know how to explain to people that you don't have to endlessly be on guard about your opinions of a movie. Agreeing that TLJ was exploited by bad actors to perpetuate a culture war does not mean that you liked TLJ as a movie. Agreeing Kelly Marie Tran went through completely undeserved bullshit for someone simply acting in a movie does not mean that you're a fan of Rose as a character.

People talk about TLJ like it's the first divisive film to ever come to existence and it's absolutely insane.

Click to shrink...

I think generally it’s because there was so much discourse on Era about people being reductive in their arguments surrounding this and it’s now embedded. Saying that people who don’t like the film are either must be A: Susceptible to the alt right mindset somehow or B: Just being contrarian. When we obviously know that’s not the case for many people. Then you have basically people just piling anecdotal evidence on to support their beliefs about people who do or don’t like the films.

It definitely also falls under the cognitive dissonance conundrum that it’s ok to love and or support something, a property, work etc. and still be critical of it. They aren’t mutually exclusive.

 

[Ridley327]

There's definitely this unnerving feeling that TLJ wound up being the straw that broke the camel's back rather than it being an isolated incident as far as how how a particularly nasty subset of the Star Wars fandom reacted to things not going the way they wanted. I'm old enough to have remembered how ecstatic fans were when ANH managed to finally take back the box office crown from ET with the release of the Special Edition, and then later that year you had Titanic come out and make an absolute mockery of that total. It was hard not to notice then that some of those same folks were going in hard on what they perceived to a usurper with particularly venomous remarks that went after it for being a "girly movie," to put it in the most pleasant way. And then TPM came out a couple of years later, and you of course wound up with the abuse that both Ahmed Best and Jake Lloyd took from those same fans that drove both of them to the brink, because how dare they be the actors in the most contentious roles of that film. It's hard for me not to see how those sentiments towards "threats" to the sanctity of the brand had always been there, but wound up getting sharpened to a lethal edge with the advent of social media and the eventual echo chambers to give it a louder voice that would snowball into much worse.

Star Wars is hardly the only franchise that has these problems, but I struggle to think of another one where the toxicity got to be so mainstream that an entire film would wind up catering to them in the hopes of being a course correction, and even if TROS wound up being so thoroughly disliked by everyone in the end, it still set a dangerous precedent that such tactics could work out after all and all it may take in the end for it to be truly successful is for it not to be tied to production deadlines as tight as the one here. Unsettling stuff, to be certain.

 

[Jegriva]

I hate how the well has been poisoned. I think that TLJ is a very brave mnovie that often miss its mark, but it can be discussed A LOT, and that's good, after so many factory-produced blockbuste rin the last years.

But unfortunately you can't put a criticism to this movie whiout being aligned by fucking gamergaters. BTW, I appreciate TLJ.

(Ghostbusters: Answer the Call was a shitshow but in no way the actors and actresses were responsible: they tried the hardest to make it work with that awful recipe).

 

[Sothen]

There really needs to be more emphasis on the fact that whether this movie is good or not or what it says about you whether you like it or not doesn't matter. Because judgments of such do nothing but turn the conversation into a petty tit-for-tat that allows the actual issues to get sidelined. What really is important is what the real-world consequences of the discussion around this movie are. A large group of shitty people co-opted a household name media franchise and used it to channel and empower their bigotry, to alarmingly great effect. Now that J.K. Rowling has outed herself as a virulent transphobe, the same is likely to happen to Harry Potter as well.

 

[UltraMagnus]

There really needs to be more emphasis on the fact that whether this movie is good or not or what it says about you whether you like it or not doesn't matter. Because judgments of such do nothing but turn the conversation into a petty tit-for-tat that allows the actual issues to get sidelined. What really is important is what the real-world consequences of the discussion around this movie are. A large group of shitty people co-opted a household name media franchise and used it to channel and empower their bigotry, to alarmingly great effect. Now that J.K. Rowling has outed herself as a virulent transphobe, the same is likely to happen to Harry Potter as well.

Click to shrink...

It's not really anything that new though, The Phantom Menace was going through the same thing like 15+ years prior. There's just less ambiguity about that film because most people accept it was kinda crap (or even people who like it will go "yeah it's not a great movie, but I was a kid at the time and liked the underwater planet" or something), but that doesn't excuse the type of fall out that Ahmed Best, Jake Lloyd went through.

 

[WindUp]

 

[Santerestil]

This thread will go well.

Click to shrink...

I only see an user warned, so... better than expected, yes?

 

[Hexcalibur]

I mean, it doesn't take a wizard to see all this bubbling below the surface from back in the TFA days. Hell, even before TFA came out. Soon as Boyega's face popped up in that trailer dude had racist harassment campaign after racist campaign aimed at him. Seeing the online reaction to Boyega's character is what sparked my interest in the Star Wars universe period, I just wanted to support a black lead in Star Wars. Nowadays, I wish I never did if I knew what the fandom and the movies would do with him. All these hogs and grifters did was capitalize on the fertile shitty soil that was already present.

That aside, there's so many shit takes in this thread alone lol. Some of y'all really just let the alt-right and the terminally online bigots run your lives and it shows. "Yeah well a racist/misogynist/transphobe has the same opinion as you!" And? Why is this even an argument lol, there's probably racist mfs who love pizza, am I supposed to just work myself into a tizzy to hate pizza now? My opinions don't change just because of it's bed-fellows. Like, unironically posturing for a ban on TLJ discussion because you think disliking TLJ is a good litmus test for weeding out hogs is such a nonsensical response that it's not even worth laughing at. Like if mfs wanna relitigate TLJ that badly, let them, practice self care, you don't have to be goal keeper and play super defense for some billion(?) dollar franchise every chance you get.

 

[Winny（๑•̀ㅂ•́）و]

It it wasn't such a scary example of how well these tactics work it would be hilarious that people exhibiting a pavlovian hate/fear response to TLJ being mentioned in a vaguely positive context is part of the point of the article in how the alt-right exploit these things to radicalise people by bypassing rationality.

Click to shrink...

The opposite is true as well. Any mention of TLJ in a vaguely critical context is enough to get you dogpiled pretty hard. In this very thread you have people saying you literally cannot be critical of TLJ or you're no better than, and are actively associating with, misogynistic and bigoted hate groups, which is completely daft. Nobody wants to be labelled alt-right for disliking a movie and, at the same time, nobody who dislikes a movie should be censoring themselves out of fear of being labelled as alt-right, yet here we are.

If you can’t distinguish between someone that doesn’t like a movie and someone that hates everyone that isn’t a straight white man, that’s kinda on you.

 

[Cow Mengde]

I love how people who criticize TLJ for sidelining the POC characters, planting the seeds to have the female lead fall in love with a space nazi, and questionable kissing are automatically alt-right.

 

[PBalfredo]

Yes, the real takeaway here is how, truly, no one is more oppressed than people who dislike TLJ

 

[Double 0]

Yes, the real takeaway here is how, truly, no one is more oppressed than people who dislike TLJ

Click to shrink...

Right. There are a lot of people in this thread more than willing to feed the beast in an attempt to be “different”.

Again, your opinion on how the movie didn’t work for you is not relevant to the topic of this thread. Other than to prove the engine alt right trolls weaponized is still running fine.

The same way the engine is still running for Anita, Hillary, etc.

 

[Commedieu]

I love how people who criticize TLJ for sidelining the POC characters, planting the seeds to have the female lead fall in love with a space nazi, and questionable kissing are automatically alt-right.

Click to shrink...

thats missing the point of this thread. This one is about the nazis who hate the film, and have a pretty powerful impact online.

I made a lengthy post but decided to scrap it for the greater good of the actual issue (bold i know) with White supremacy and Alt-Right cheerleaders that are the sort of gigantic vocal majority when it comes to content online about the hate for the new franchise. Folks were getting terrorized online (the talent) probably death threats, etc. Its like saying you're not a bad republican. You just seem to be on the side of the fence with all of the nazis. Folks want to discuss the nazi element of it. Which is a fair discussion with data behind it. No need to "not all sw fans" because its beyond obvious being on this board we aren't nazis and trying to promote white supremacy.

A favorite pass-time of most nerditry is debating online which thing is better. However, with star wars there is a clear overtone of bigotry/white supremacy in the field that doesn't even delve into the issues you, i , and most sane folks have.

No, the problem is why is a woman in the movie, an asian *GASP* OMG A BLACK too??!? OUTRAGE. Thats what you're going to find online mostly. And now you're being recommended videos on why brie larson is the devil. Its a toxic environment. Thats what OP is about.

 

[Cow Mengde]

thats missing the point of this thread. This one is about the nazis who hate the film, and have a pretty powerful impact online.

I made a lengthy post but decided to scrap it for the greater good of the actual issue (bold i know) with White supremacy and Alt-Right cheerleaders that are the sort of gigantic vocal majority when it comes to content online about the hate for the new franchise. Folks were getting terrorized online (the talent) probably death threats, etc. Its like saying you're not a bad republican. You just seem to be on the side of the fence with all of the nazis. Folks want to discuss the nazi element of it. Which is a fair discussion with data behind it. No need to "not all sw fans" because its beyond obvious being on this board we aren't nazis and trying to promote white supremacy.

A favorite pass-time of most nerditry is debating online which thing is better. However, with star wars there is a clear overtone of bigotry/white supremacy in the field that doesn't even delve into the issues you, i , and most sane folks have.

No, the problem is why is a woman in the movie, an asian *GASP* OMG A BLACK too??!? OUTRAGE. Thats what you're going to find online mostly. And now you're being recommended videos on why brie larson is the devil. Its a toxic environment. Thats what OP is about.

Click to shrink...

I wasn't criticizing the article.

 

[Semfry]

The opposite is true as well.

Click to shrink...

Lol no. This thread being exhibit A. People who like or are neutral on the movie want to talk about the actual subject of the article, but TLJ haters keep trying to derail with their takes on the movie which no-one cares about in this context.

 

[killerrin]

I liked Rose and Fynn personally. It was an absolute travesty when they were basically sidelined after their respective introduction movies.

 

[SOBOSLDR]

I thought there was more salt-right backlash to TFA personally. All the Mary-sue stuff and anger at making a woman and black man the leads while the villain was a white guy. I don’t really think it got amped up more during TLJ. Obviously the rose thing happened, but it didn’t seem as strong as the initial TFA backlash against Daisy.

 

[Ridley327]

I thought there was more salt-right backlash to TFA personally. All the Mary-sue stuff and anger at making a woman and black man the leads while the villain was a white guy. I don’t really think it got amped up more during TLJ. Obviously the rose thing happened, but it didn’t seem as strong as the initial TFA backlash against Daisy.

Click to shrink...

Ehh, I think a lot of the initial resistance that such crowd had towards the casting went to the wayside when they finally saw the film and were, by and large, pleased with the way it wound up course-correcting the franchise to something that they agreed with overall. The "Rey is a Mary Sue" argument that happened afterward didn't seem nearly as rooted in the alt-right segment, as it was a pretty common sentiment across the board.

 

[EOS-HDC]

I was expecting some discussion about Steve Bannon or Cambridge Analítica or Gamergate and how that has led to a bunch of youtubers to profit from hate while waging a war against women, minorities, well anyone who is not a white male but here we are.

It was a great article pinpointing a lot of what has happened since Gamergate and what paved the road for it to happen, it clarified a lot of questions I used to have and shine light to a bunch of events that I personally choosed not to put attention or didn't do enough to understand the consequences.

Thanks

 

[Naijaboy]

Personally my issue with Holdo is nothing she does makes sense. She has this honorable plan but refuses to tell anyone else about it, to the point of completely moral collapse because “trust me” (sure Jan) then proceeds to break the universe it terms of the holdo manuever. Which is just using what we know as turning ships into light speed rail guns. Which then begs the question why the first order needs planet killers, or why they didn’t just nuke Exogul with an empty ship shot at light speed at the planet since they’d already done it in that battle. Holdo as a character isn’t a problem in itself.

Of course we all know that a ship at light speed could eviscerate planets. Everyone with basic physics knowledge gets the implications. It’s that they don’t go there to avoid having to open that can of worms. It’s an unspoken restriction, to keep things fun.

Click to shrink...

I have a theory for that.

It could be said that Leia, Holdo and the others wanted to keep the information in the know to prevent Snoke from figuring it out via Force shenanigans, which is especially relevant when Poe failed to stop Kylo Ren from reading his own mind. Keeping that information to a minimum would make it easier for Leia to prevent Snoke from knowing. Sadly, we won't really know what was on her mind during her coma with Carrie's death.

 

[Gustaf]

I have a theory for that.

It could be said that Leia, Holdo and the others wanted to keep the information in the know to prevent Snoke from figuring it out via Force shenanigans, which is especially relevant when Poe failed to stop Kylo Ren from reading his own mind. Keeping that information to a minimum would make it easier for Leia to prevent Snoke from knowing. Sadly, we won't really know what was on her mind during her coma with Carrie's death.

Click to shrink...

you dont need a theory for anything,

HOLDO DOES NOT OWE POE ANYTHING.

 

[Merv]

Thanks for this OP. Gonna spend some time going through it all. It's amazing how so many alt-right youtubers started with TLJ.



I unironically love this dumb song.

Click to shrink...

Ditto, it's so dumb

"I'm so haaapy the carbonite is gone..."

 

[Naijaboy]

As for the article itself, we can only hope that producers take this information to heart and not be fooled by outsized outrage. That and social media really needs to fix their algorithms yesterday. Time and time again their flaws have been exposed. And creators have shown that it's more difficult to promote positive outlooks in media than negative ones.

you dont need a theory for anything,

HOLDO DOES NOT OWE POE ANYTHING.

Click to shrink...

...I'm actually with you on that.

 

[Betty]

you dont need a theory for anything,

HOLDO DOES NOT OWE POE ANYTHING.

Click to shrink...

Keeping it secret was pointless.

If there were a spy on the ship and Holdo was trying to smoke them out and didn't want their plan to be exposed, that would make sense why she didn't want to tell Poe.

In the end it created drama for no reason. Poe learned the valuable lesson of... not questioning orders? Bit at odds with the lesson of Awakens when Finn refuses orders to massacre a village.

I thought Poe was a worthless character anyway and the slow moving chase in space was just such a wrong fit for Star Wars.

 

[Elandyll]

Yep absolutely.
I definitely wish that alt right hadn't co opted the TLJ hate in many's mind, so I didn't have to defend myself from being alt-right/ Gamergater when I explain how digusted I was by the movie for 100 reasons that have nothing to do with representation or women empowerment.

It completely poisonned any discussion to be had around the film, though it wasn't the only one I guess. And of course games were impacted as well.

 

[Laughing Banana]

It really is not a different concept to grasp.

I *hate* The Last Jedi as a movie--especially considering what it did to Finn--but I can also recognize that many morally questionable characters are using it as a vehicle to broadcast their morally questionable ideas.

One is not mutually exclusive to another.

 

[Ctrl Alt Del]

Keeping it secret was pointless.

If there were a spy on the ship and Holdo was trying to smoke them out and didn't want their plan to be exposed, that would make sense why she didn't want to tell Poe.

In the end it created drama for no reason. Poe learned the valuable lesson of... not questioning orders? Bit at odds with the lesson of Awakens when Finn refuses orders to massacre a village.

I thought Poe was a worthless character anyway and the slow moving chase in space was just such a wrong fit for Star Wars.

Click to shrink...

Might have been pointless but it's the prerogative of a military leader. They don't need to go over plans with their subordinates unless they're required to do something in said plan - and even then it's fine to keep them in the dark about the bigger picture. I think the movie does a good job in portraying it from Poe's POV so the viewer is in his frame of mind, discrediting Holdo as untrustworthy or incompetent because that's how Poe feels about her. The Holdo Maneuver ultimately shows that he should have faith on others instead of trying to take everything on his own hands and be the hero. That's what he learned. Personally speaking, I don't like the Maneuver because it doesn't makes sense in-lore, but the message was effectively delivered.

 

[Gustaf]

If there were a spy on the ship and Holdo was trying to smoke them out and didn't want their plan to be exposed, that would make sense why she didn't want to tell Poe.

Click to shrink...

do you really want everything spelled out for you???????

you couldn't conclude from the dialogue that was what holdo was worried about?

becuase for Starters, this is the first time they can track someone through hyperspace, Leia concludes is a tracking device, because she trusts in everybody bless her heart.

but Holdo doesn't, she didnt jump into that conclusion. if they tracked them, the most easy explanation would be someone betrayed them.

but it's fine, if you want someone on the movie like that Merry on TROS saying "the Holdo manuver was a one in one million shot!" so you dont have to think too much, thats up to you.

 

[Laughing Banana]

^^

Is this really the time or place to discuss those Holdo stuff? Hahah. I could air a million things I don't like about TLJ but this is not really the place to do that, right?

 

[Masterz1337]

^^

Is this really the time or place to discuss those Holdo stuff? Hahah. I could air a million things I don't like about TLJ but this is not really the place to do that, right?

Click to shrink...

I think the main takeaway is how she gets scapegoated. When I saw it opening night, my friend and I were both surprised she wasn't a bad guy at the end, because we felt like they were intentionally trying to make her look suspicious, then it's like nope fooled you! I don't think that her character played out well at all, but the fact she's a purple haired woman is why she gets some much venom, had it been another generic "arrogant and secretive dude" like in every other movie who stands in opposition to the people we want to root for, it wouldn't even be discussed.

I finally read the whole article, I was actually surprised the youtube videos they used were at times super low in terms of views or subs. But it really maps out the pipeline of how radicalization has been working.

 

[Ryan.]

 

[Ryan.]

 

[Double 0]

Of course EVS is involved.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Click to shrink...

Youtube is fucking horrid for allowing the quartering to have a channel. Creepy ass motherfucker.

 

[BWoog]

People like the Quartering and EVS need to be launched into the fucking sun.

 

[Ryan.]

People like the Quartering and EVS need to be launched into the fucking sun.

Click to shrink...

The video in question:


I thought he was in a food court or some shit

 

[admiraltaftbar]

EVS is a fucking clown lol. Good on Snyder for apparently telling him to piss off.

Also he should do the same with Grace Randolph.

 

[Mr. Poolman]

EVS makes me dislike comics I had enjoyed like Green Lantern Rebirth and Morrison's X-men.

 

[svacina]

EVS makes me dislike comics I had enjoyed like Green Lantern Rebirth and Morrison's X-men.

Click to shrink...

At least New X-Men had Quitely as the main penciller, Rebirth is cursed with his ugly ass art with no reprieve.

 

[Ryan.]

 

[FF Seraphim]

Click to shrink...

What the fuck...
That's basically putting a target on their head.

 

[kaebie]

Lucasfilm's silence on this is deafening. Not just this latest occurence, but TFM in general for years now.

 

[krazen]

What a sad update all around, the worst for all these dudes.

 

[TheEchosOfTheCyborg]

Click to shrink...

How has The Quatering not been banned from YouTuber and Twitter yet? It's depressing he can just get away with horrid garbage like this.

 

[Armaros]

The opposite is true as well. Any mention of TLJ in a vaguely critical context is enough to get you dogpiled pretty hard. In this very thread you have people saying you literally cannot be critical of TLJ or you're no better than, and are actively associating with, misogynistic and bigoted hate groups, which is completely daft. Nobody wants to be labelled alt-right for disliking a movie and, at the same time, nobody who dislikes a movie should be censoring themselves out of fear of being labelled as alt-right, yet here we are.

If you can’t distinguish between someone that doesn’t like a movie and someone that hates everyone that isn’t a straight white man, that’s kinda on you.

Click to shrink...

You mean the same folks on this very forum last week that were unironically saying ‘well it is bad that the misogynists are attacking KK but’

Or trying to claim the bigots trying to get her fired dont have any roots in misogyny..