reads like that guy that said that since endgame came out infinity war is "pointless"
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Rian Johnson (The Last Jedi) Details His Reasons for Pushing the Saga Forward
- Thread starter DiipuSurotu
- Start date
reads like that guy that said that since endgame came out infinity war is "pointless"
Yeah, right before he handed her Han's dice - to me that was Luke saying "despite what's happened to your son, there's still love out there in the universe".
But you could be right, of course.
True, but to me that contextual change made going into Return of the Jedi way more enticing - just like with the third Matrix movie. I won't get into how well I feel they executed those ideas, but I would honestly say that Matrix Reloaded setup a third movie 100000000x better than TLJ did. Everything they thought to be true was wrong, suddenly Neo can use his powers outside the Matrix (this was pretty stupid lore-wise but if you liked it, it was exciting as fuck), and they're basically fucked as their ship was totaled. You wanted to see what it all meant. There was nothing like that at the end of TLJ.
The point is that TLJ didn't leave "the story" in an interesting way to setup the final part of it. There's nothing about TLJ that leaves the story open or makes the story more interesting moving forward. If anything, they could've foregone an Episode 9 and said "assume that the rebels continue to fight the first order". There're no burning questions.
Characters in the Star Wars movies may forgive Kylo if he saves Rey or whatever, but I' m not sure the audience will consideing he killed fan favourite Han, indirectly killed Luke and rejected redemption at least twice. I think the best consequence might be Kylo helps stops Palpatine's spirit then chooses exile, not being forgiven, other than acceptance from his force ghost mum.
well yeah, we are only talking about if Rey may or may not try to redeem kylo once more or if she thinks he is beyond redemption
I disagree, a psychoctic man child leading the empire and seeing Rome fall apart could be interesting.
But I have a feeling that plot is going to be upstaged by Palpatine's return, to tie up the skywalker saga.
Damn that's actually something I never really thought of...seeing Kylo's full-dark side be the downfall of the darkside....you're right, that could be interesting.
but you're also right, Palp's return is definitely going to upstage that.
TLJ crystallized Kylo's motivation as wanting to tear down the entire Jedi/Sith paradigm, which, coincidentally, is what Luke also desired while in the throes of his depression. Kylo's not simply a Vader wannabe; he has no master overseeing him, and tempering him, as Vader did. He doesn't give a shit about running an Empire. He wants to overturn the status quo.
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i really love Kylo reaction to Hux in the scene,
and the guy behind Kylo too
The problem is that there is literally no way for Rey to join Kylo and have it make a lick of sense. It would contradict all of her character development that came before. She left to save Kylo because she thought there was still good in him.. enough for her to convince him to leave and rejoin the good guys. Then she finds out that.. he's chosen not to rejoin with the good guys, which was her entire mission. "Ben Solo will turn", Rey tells Luke. "This is not going to go the way you think". Luke was Right. Rey failed.
You have to look at the context of their dialogue to understand why it makes no sense for Rey to join with him.
He's asking her to abandon her friends and allies. This is where they differ.. Kylo has literally no one left. His prostitution was one sided and served to benefit Kylo alone. Rey, on the other hand, has Leia, Chewie, Finn and even BB-8 who gave helped her and who she is loyal to.
She's got connections she'd never had before.. For once she's not alone, which is the opposite of Kylo, who burned bridges until he had nothing left.
what's the future for jedi/force users seems like a pretty burning question. like, yoda burning a tree on fire "burning"
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Great points. I guess I'd play devil's advocate and say that throughout TLJ, it seemed as though her character arc was going from the line she says to Luke when she first meets him "we need you to come back because Kylo Ren is too strong with the dark side" etc. to being very focused on "her place in all this" - which is why to me, it would've at least been believable for her to want to explore that with Kylo. Kylo asking her to abandon her friends and him not caring to save hers only came after they fought side-by-side. They could've done something like, Kylo calls off the attack or sabotages it in some way so to as to bring the battle to a stalemate, and then the two of them leave together - or something (I'm not a writer I don't know lol).
But you're right, I suppose that wouldn't have made much sense either. That being said, I still don't really think the ending was all that great, because it didn't really leave us in a place of questioning or excitement, it all ended very neatly.
I'd agree with you except for when Luke takes back everything he said and says "I will not be the last jedi" and it shows Rey (then later that she still has the saber and the books). I think it's pretty clear that Rey is basically picking up where Luke left off at the end of Return of the Jedi when Yoda died.
"It's like poetry, it rhymes".
yeah except we know nothing about what form any of this will take. we are left to ponder the question until we get the answer in the next movie.
I've actually thought about this myself. What if Kylo, instead of saying to Rey "screw it all, let's burn it all down" he says "I can put an end to all this right now if you'll join me." And Rey caring more about her friends than herself, chooses to join him. The movie ends with Kylo Ren calling off the attack, the Resistance escapes, the First Order reverses course .... closing shot is Rey walking off with him and the Resistance completely stunned over what just happend ha
I feel like Kylo is a very insecure man and uses the whole 'taking down the establishment' as just his way to cause more hate. I bet IX will just him being a dick like Joffrey rather than having some grand plan.
He's absolutely insecure, and yes, his desire to tear everything down is a product of his self-loathing. Which makes his overtures toward Rey kind of heartbreaking - that moment in the throne room was the closest he was ever going to get to a cry for help, and the rejection may have broken him completely.
He's a fundamentally compromised person, but it's still fascinating seeing him struggle against himself, mostly because Driver is so goddamn good in the role.
That's exactly it.
THAT would've been a killer way to end the movie.
Would've been a pretty ballsy and dope new direction to take it.
It's almost like Kylo's actions never back up his words when he tries to be a darkside badass. The script is full of moments where he contradicts himself.
Ren: I killed Han Solo. When the moment came, I didn't hesitate!
Reality:
Ren:
followed by
which is just the status quo:
followed by:
It's genuinely insane that people unironically believe Kylo would've started something "new." On top of this, a story's worth is not based on how "new" it is. Especially not in the case of SW which wears every single one of it's influences on it's sleeve and follows incredibly standard storytelling tropes so perfectly that it's the go to example in a shit ton of storytelling classes.
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It's like poetry, it rhymes.It's almost like Kylo's actions never back up his words when he tries to be a darkside badass. The script is full of moments where he contradicts himself.
Ren: I killed Han Solo. When the moment came, I didn't hesitate!
Reality:
Ren:
followed by
which is just the status quo:
followed by:
THR Exclusive - Ms. Marvel series in the works for Disney+
It's genuinely insane that people unironically believe Kylo would've started something "new." On top of this, a story's worth is not based on how "new" it is. Especially not in the case of SW which wears every single one of it's influences on it's sleeve and follows incredibly standard storytelling tropes so perfectly that it's the go to example in a shit ton of storytelling classes.
Only it's actually good poetry (join me, we'll rule together)
Yea people tend to dislike when people reply to their very easily refutable nuclear takes and bad movie critique. 😃
👏
I mean, you're using TLJ to argue against people saying that TLJ should've been written differently.It's almost like Kylo's actions never back up his words when he tries to be a darkside badass. The script is full of moments where he contradicts himself.
Ren: I killed Han Solo. When the moment came, I didn't hesitate!
Reality:
Ren:
followed by
which is just the status quo:
followed by:
THR Exclusive - Ms. Marvel series in the works for Disney+
It's genuinely insane that people unironically believe Kylo would've started something "new." On top of this, a story's worth is not based on how "new" it is. Especially not in the case of SW which wears every single one of it's influences on it's sleeve and follows incredibly standard storytelling tropes so perfectly that it's the go to example in a shit ton of storytelling classes.
If you look at The Force Awakens alone, and even the first say, half of TLJ, it totally would've been believable for Kylo to say "I don't understand any of this anymore, I don't know my place - and neither do you - let's go figure it out".
One random thought, I'm done reading anything into the names of this new trilogy. They just seem like names that sounded cool that don't really have much to do with the movies. When Kylo says 'I will have killed the last jedi!' it sounds to my ears, like they added that line late on, to justify the cool sounding name they came up with.
Because The Force Awakens isn't really about anything much awakening, and 'The Last Jedi' isn't about the last jedi any more than it's about the last anything.
TLJ is a good movie though :)
Because The Force Awakens isn't really about anything much awakening, and 'The Last Jedi' isn't about the last jedi any more than it's about the last anything.
TLJ is a good movie though :)
Pushed the series so far forward nothing that has happened to date in all the movies accomplished anything
I would love to go back to a time where he was the guy who made a cool movie called looper
I would love to go back to a time where he was the guy who made a cool movie called looper
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What's your point? The title of the films 'The Force Awakens' and 'The Last Jedi' tells you nothing about them. It could have been called The Last Rebel, or The Last Sith, or a million other equally relevant things. That's my point.
You could call Star Wars, ESB or ROJ 'The Last Jedi' and it would be equally relevant to their stories.
So as such, I'm reading nothing into this film being called Rise of Skywalker. That's what I'm getting at.