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Rian Johnson (The Last Jedi) Details His Reasons for Pushing the Saga Forward
- Thread starter DiipuSurotu
- Start date
If you go back and read the thread you'll see I was responding to Surfinn's comment about it being a big change for a hero in a modern blockbuster.
Also, is it possible for you guys to post without the toxic snark? Just speak like a normal human being. I know I slip into it and contribute as well but I don't want to be that person. Enough people have commented on it and it's driving people away from talking about Star Wars. Which is a bummer because Star Wars is awesome. Let's be better.
There was still enough wiggle room to take the conflict in a more interesting direction. Leia's distress signal could have been answered by a bunch of private militia groups inspired by the successful attack on Starkiller base. Rian had a whole galaxy to play with, but he once again makes the scope feel exceedingly narrow.
TLJ did a good job of pushing Kyo Ren, Luke, and Poe to the forefront while sidelining Rey and Finn. It felt like a movie made for the older white male portion of the Star Wars fanbase, like Rian himself. And it ended with a young white boy looking up at the stars in a scene that felt like a fanboy self-insert.
i mean, the remaining allies not answering in this movie doesnt mean they are not there,.
there a lot of things that people want to treat like they were put on stasis a tthe end of the movie and they would not change when episode 9 comes.
like people keep repeating, Rey shouldn't have any problem beating Kylo when she has done it twice already!, when in reality everything can change between these movies, and it will not be a "course-correction" or "JJ saving star wars!" thore are things that always would be the freaking case.
do you really think in episode 9 the resistance will be still like 20 people only?
Corny fake-woke narrative here considering it literally ends with calling Rey the last jedi and sets her up as what could potentially be the future teacher for other jedis
How in the world do you think this movie gives Poe more precedent over Rey of all people
I mean, the distress signal didn't happen until the climax of the movie. But the resetting of the galactic board was already done by TFA. The story RJ wrote flowed directly out of those events. It's funny reading this criticism because most of the negative reaction againstTLJ is that it didn't follow up on TFA enough!
Time skip is a year. We know it won't be only 20 people due to the Resistance Reborn novel out in November. Multiple planetary systems join the Resistance between TLJ and TROS.
people dont get that the resistance being so understaffed was because most planetary system thought Leia was being paranoid about it,
well, she prove them wrong. and the cost was high
i think TROS has the possibility of finally putting the first order and resistance on equals grounds, because the first order is literally an exterior force trying to conquer the galaxy.
it is not the same as a rebelliong vs the evil empire.
Yep, a lot of people seemed incapable of understanding that line. Or Poe's "We are the spark, that will light the fire that will burn the First Order down."
Here is a simple truth: Anyone who pulls lololol but the Resistance is only 20 or so people card has the movie-watching skills of a 3 year old.
JJ fucked things up for sure, but like I said, there was enough wiggle room to pursue a new direction. The FO just suffered a massive defeat at Starkiller base, which should have inspired an outpouring of support for the Resistance. Like, what the fuck is Coruscant doing? We don't get to see any of that because Rian decides to have TLJ take place over the span of a few days.
"an approximate version of those idea" is veeeeeeeeeery vague. And also, there's a ton of daylight between idea and execution on film. A film is made during the writing process, and again during shooting, and again during editing. Ideas are worthless, it's 99% execution.
And again, even if they were 100% Lucas' ideas: so what? That doesn't somehow negate criticism. I don't see the value in arguing whether or not some kernel of the sequels came from Lucas or not.
Your insistence on reducing the comparisons to "it's really the same because he did the right thing and saved the day" is really tiring. I explained, multiple times, how it moved his character forward and how it directly relates to people who have experienced similar failures.
We're basically taught in the OT that as long as you don't fuck up too much, everything works out perfectly in the end. The baddie is defeated. Dad is saved. Friends are saved. The galaxy is at peace.
TLJ focuses on decisions that you shouldn't be able to come back from. Abandoning your friends. Hiding in shame. Direct actions causing evil to rise and conquer/contemplating murdering your own family in their sleep. Cutting off from the Force. Basically things that would get you cast from the Jedi Order and exiled, things that SW had taught us are inherently wrong.. not the actions of a hero.
It's about the journey and how people relate to it, which broke new ground in terms of deconstructing the traditional protagonist/success we see in the OT.
Up until now, SW was basically a dichotomy of good or bad, success or failure. Luke and Yoda both show us that the hero can become an unrecognizable, empty shell, yet have the strength and resolve to be a hero again after giving up completely. These are themes that people can relate to in ways they were not able to in previous episodes.
These are all unexplored, grey areas that help ground and humanize Luke beyond the golden hero who saves the day.
I'm not saying it's new in storytelling, just that major blockbusters don't deep dive into uncomfortable and risky content with heroes, and certainly not established, cultural icons.
Luke learned that failure molds our best qualities and provides wisdom we can pass to others. His failure in TFA and TLJ molded him into a better, wiser person, with the help of Yoda. He will certainly use this wisdom to help Rey in some way as a Force ghost in TROS. That's how he moved forward.. for himself and as a mentor.
This is foreshadowed in EP8, via Yoda:
It's frankly asinine to argue that TLJ doesn't move Luke forward.
To throw a blanket over Luke, Obi and Yoda as "all having struggled yet succeeded" is to miss the point of TLJ and who Luke is.
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I can only speak for myself, but there's a scene in Suicide Squad when the team enters the city they fight some faceless enemies seemingly just so there could be a fight scene
The throne room fight in TLJ for me is very reminiscent of that and elicited the same reaction.
For me it feels wholly unmotivated and lacks emotional stakes, which is why I ended up uninvested and it does nothing for me
But that's just my experience with it and granted I only saw the movie once
I understand why people would like it though
The fact the movie teases the more interesting scenarios (eg Rey and Kylo teaming up) before flipping back to the old status quo. This was the exact point to do something nuts like that.
Removing characters and plot hooks from your story does not add forward momentum lol
I felt the scene existed to provide a brief window into a universe in which either Rey or Kylo turns the other. Thought it was important to have that glimpse, to make it more bittersweet when it is taken away.
in the same post you said "it is the same" and then that "it isnt not the same"
incredible
For me, the ST is a lot different than the OT.
I mean, the OT focusus on characters too, but ST is a lot more about it, the decisions they take and the consequences of it, and the status quo is just there to give some context. (if any, because we don't know anything from the New Republic)
I mean, the OT focusus on characters too, but ST is a lot more about it, the decisions they take and the consequences of it, and the status quo is just there to give some context. (if any, because we don't know anything from the New Republic)
lol look at this persecution complex.
Mate, are you suggesting I can only describe TLJ 100% of the time in its complete entirety and dissecting different elements is absolutely fucking flabbergasting?
I'll elaborate in case you genuinely misunderstood my post. TLJ goes back to the status quo in form of Good Jedi vs Evil Sith.
It also definitely isn't the same because obviously its a new movie? Actually I'm not sure where you got the "its not the same" from the post, I'm guessing the momentum comment?
I'm guessing you didn't realize Kylo and Rey didn't use any force powers.
Kylo can freeze people in place lol even disregarding the janky choreography, it was a wasted opportunity to show off Kylos limitations with the force and Reys growth. Plus its a star wars lightsaber fight, I wanna see cool/inventive force power usage.
To be fair, that whole scene was pretty awesome. I really loved this: Fkn Daisey man, she is so damn good.
Yeah, other than the visual of the two of them back to back fighting these red guards with a bright red background, it was a pretty meh/okay fight with some pretty sloppily executed choreography.
This is not at all what I was arguing. The point I was making is that the creator of SW, George Lucas, was in the process of continuing the SW saga with episode 7, 8 and 9. A screenwriter was hired, drafts for the first episode were written and concept art was drawn up. The story would have involved Luke and Leia. We know this. So anyone saying Lucas was completely done with this story and showed no intention of continuing is full of it.
In the early-to-mid parts of the movie, it gestures in the direction of genuinely subverting the status quo and story dynamics of the series. Right before falling back into the same old story. That was the moment where the disappointment really set in for me.
Okay, my mistake. FWIW I never said Lucas was or wasn't done with it, that's not very interesting to me. He didn't end up making these movies, so whatever. I thought people were arguing that since it was at least partly Lucas' vision, it's not Johnson's or Abrams' or whoever's fault that the ST is so flat.
Coruscant is no longer the seat of the galactic republic. That was Hosnian Prime, which was destroyed.
can you tell me what parts made you think the story would have change from good guys vs bad guys into anything else?
The creator that needed his wife to fix the first then fucked her come the divorce, who passed off the sequels and pissed off his producer and took soft drink money to make the now beloved prequels with a new yesman producer.
Another thread of the same five posters trying to brow-beat everyone into appreciating TLJ. "The movie watching skills of a 3-year-old," "frankly asinine to argue," that's really nice. I'm sure many eyes are opened every day by these efforts. Good job, team.
Wow.
It's still a galactic superpower which should have a vested interest in the conflict.
The stuff with Luke on the island, Rey's communications with Kylo, that cool hall of mirrors sequence. I thought, they're going somewhere new and interesting with this! They didn't.
That's not to say it wasn't going to be good guys versus bad guys, but I thought they might at least blur those boundaries and complicate the light side/dark side morality, which was always bunk, even in the OT and even moreso the prequels. idunno, I just didn't vibe with it at all.
I was disappointed that the Mon Calmari didn't show up after Leia's distress signal. They openly defied the Empire by providing capital ships for the Rebellion, the long range planet killer weapon has been destroyed and they probably have plenty of capital ships that could take on the first order.
The galaxy basically demilitarized after the Battle of Endor. Would have been nice if the movies touched on that but those story elements are expounded on in the novels
i can understand that, Kylo just went more dark, but at least Rey has the implication that can't be tempted by the dark side. i dont think her order of jedi will folow the classic jedi, and will be something that embraces both sides going forward.
Rey not accepting Kylo specifically i think was a good call.
it doesn't mean she will be all "jedi goods! sith bads!"
Yes, because arguing over one aspect of the film is trying to brow-beat everyone into appreciating it in its entirety. Excellent reading comprehension here. And also nice job ignoring all of my post and singling out a few words/changing the context of what I was arguing.
It's funny that you clump me into this group when I've heavily criticized TLJ since its release, and didn't even like it for quite some time.
This is the kind of toxic shit that devolves discussion.
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