Richard Leadbetter (Digital Foundry): Why the return of 30fps console games is inevitable

[Deleted member 93062]

Richard did a great writeup on Eurogamer that I would prefer people click to help them with revenue, but I'll summarize the most relevant parts to the current generation of consoles here:

On UE5:

It's a tricky question to answer, but ultimately, I feel it is inevitable that the proliferation of 60fps support will slack off significantly - not least because so many titles are looking to tap into the full array of features offered by Epic's Unreal Engine 5, which sets the stage for a new 3D rendering paradigm. We've already had our first taste of the kind of fidelity UE5 offers thanks to last year's phenomenal demo - The Matrix Awakens - based on an early rendition of the engine's features. Lumen, tapping into hardware-accelerated ray tracing features, delivers an astonishingly realistic lighting solution, while Nanite offers a level of geometric detail in excess of traditional rendering.

It's quite unlike anything we've seen before, but the point is that the demo runs at an inconsistent 30fps during gameplay, while cutscenes are actually operating at a literally cinematic 24fps. Both CPU and GPU are put through the wringer here, so simply scaling down resolution to improve frame-rate will not help much.

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On Gotham Knights:

To put it brutally, Gotham Knights' 30fps nature on consoles appears to be down to the authorship of the game as opposed to the raw capabilities of the hardware. It's only speculation of course, but based on what we've seen, the brute force power of the new machines is used to make a game that likely couldn't run well on PS4 and Xbox One work even at a basic level on PS5 and Xbox Series hardware. By extension, it's not the best example of why a transition to 30fps console gaming may be coming.

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On Plague Tale: Requiem:

A Plague Tale: Requiem is a lot more interesting, simply because the reputation and accomplishments of Asobo Studio are exceptionally impressive. Here, we find a game that is pushing phenomenal levels of detail, beautiful materials and characters and a remarkable lighting solution. On PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X, the native resolution is 2560x1440, using temporal accumulation to upscale to a convincing-looking 4K, while Series S runs at 900p with a 1080p output target. 30 frames per second is the target, but the fidelity Asobo aims for can see PlayStation 5 in particular drop beneath the performance target.

Would, say, a 1080p performance mode be possible for this title for the premium consoles? After all, if Series S delivers 900p30, the notion that Series X - with a notional 3x improvement to GPU power - could deliver 1080p60 doesn't sound outrageous. At this point, we need to consider that developers that aren't targeting last-gen console CPUs may already be challenging the Zen 2 cores with their latest wares. Our friend at the brilliantly-named Analog Foundry presented their take on A Plague Tale optimised settings for use on an RTX 3070 paired with a Ryzen 7 3700X CPU, based on the same Zen 2 architecture as the consoles. this clipsuggests that performance can drop into the mid to high 30s, likely down to CPU limitations as the GPU is clearly under-utilised. Based on the footage, running those many thousands of rates comes at a cost.

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On 40FPS being the new "performance mode":

The goalposts have shifted with Asobo Studio opting for fidelity and visual accomplishment over performance - but there is a twist via support for 40fps on 120Hz displays. Sony's first-party studios have championed the use of 40fps fidelity modes for much of its recent output, including Uncharted: The Legacy Collection, Horizon Forbidden West and The Last of Us Part 1. The trend was kickstarted by Insomniac Games where its Spider-Man titles and Ratchet and Clank: Rift in Time showcased the feature. The reason 30fps exists in the first place is that it cleanly divides into the 60Hz refresh rate of most displays - the same frame persists for two screen refreshes and looks consistent. 40fps is the logical progression for the new wave of 120Hz screens: the screen refreshes three times per game frame and it offers a much smoother look than 30fps.

This may sound weird when you're 'only' getting an extra 10 frames per second but Frame-rate isn't linear, frame-time is. A 30fps game updates every 33.3ms, a 60fps game updates every 16.7ms. Targeting 40fps puts you bang in the middle with a 25ms per-frame persistence. It may well be 'only' an extra 10fps, but it looks so much smoother because it is at the exact mid-point between a 30fps and 60fps presentation.

To illustrate why frame-time is a more useful performance metric than frame-rate, consider this: the difference between 30fps and 60fps is 30fps but so is the difference between 90fps and 120fps. However, the improvement in frame-time - which is essentially how you perceive the flow of the game - drops by 16.7ms in the leap from 30fps to 60fps. However, boosting frame-rate from 90fps to 120fps only reduces frame-time by 2.8ms. Faster is better, but as frame-rate scales, actual perceivable improvements to performance swiftly enter the realm of diminishing returns. By the same token, cutting frame-time from 33.3ms (30fps) down to 25ms (40fps) is far more of a win perceptually than the frame-rate figure suggests.

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Why the return of 30fps console games is inevitable

Future games will be more ambitious - and they can't all run at 60fps.

www.eurogamer.net

This is disappointing to me, although kind of expected. I had a bit of hope after Epic came out and said they got Lumen working at 60FPS on current generation consoles but that might not be telling the full story of other CPU-intensive parts of UE5. While I cannot wait till games support some form of ray traced lighting/GI like Lumen, I also really dislike having to drop to 30FPS to do so. Hopefully Pro consoles can help bridge the gap.

 

[Bengraven]

I'm enjoying this 60fps vacation and hoping some companies are taking notes about graphics versus performance.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

I'm enjoying this 60fps vacation and hoping some companies are taking notes about graphics versus performance.

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I hope so too, but we all know they fucking won't. Nobody gives a shit about performance, it's all about stupid graphical effects that'll be old hat in 6 months.

 

[J_Viper]

Somehow, 30 FPS returned

 

[Rowsdower]

Disappointing, but yea, I can see this coming. Let's hope 40fps modes stay a thing though! I'm starting to prefer 40fps/120hz games.

 

[ILikeFeet]

gamers: consoles are strong enough to have 60fps for all games
developers: man, that's a lot of power, wonder what I can do with it at 30fps

and that's why 30fps will always be here

 

[oni-link]

I'm gonna personally blame it on everyone who posted about wanting cross gen to die over the last 2 years

Cross gen was why we got 60fps games for so long

RIP, silky smooth frame rates

Welcome back, diminishing visual returns

 

[Milennia]

A lot of people are going to eat crow in the next 2 years here judging from some recent threads we had where people were adamant that 60 was the new "standard" my whole ass

 

[Lord Fanny]

View: https://imgur.com/a/vPtkNoM

 

[Rowsdower]

I'm gonna personally blame it on everyone who posted about wanting cross gen to die over the last 2 years

Cross gen was why we got 60fps games for so long

RIP, silky smooth frame rates

Welcome back, diminishing visual returns

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Agreed. Cross-gen was what was giving us these beautiful 4k/1440p/60fps modes.

 

[Bengraven]

I hope so too, but we all know they fucking won't. Nobody gives a shit about performance, it's all about stupid graphical effects that'll be old hat in 6 months.

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I know and it hurts. Like I know it's unpopular here but I love the cross Gen period.

I've played and beat games on my Series just because the low frame rate on lastGen turned me off but the high frame rate makes it feel more FUN not just smooth. I started replaying CP2077 when they added performance mode to Series s in the last update.

I'll take performance over graphics any day. I am okay paying for next gen but for frame rates not new graphical tricks.

 

[PhaZe 5]

Nothing to be done about CPU usage, but for GPU limitations is there any particular reason the proliferation of console based FSR/DLSS like solutions seem to get very little attention?

 

[BabyDontHurtMe]

I mean yeah. Some devs really want to push visuals, others really want to push performance. It depends on the game.

 

[UltimateHigh]

if you're game is fast paced and/or competitive, you gotta ditch 30fps. full stop. like what's the point. (and have an option for much higher frames at reduced visuals, because some people prefer that)

you can get maybe away with it otherwise. but not including VISUAL/FRAMERATE OPTIONS is foolish.

 

[logash]

Gonna read but if you watch their weekly podcast they have said this repeatedly ever since the consoles have been released. 60 FPS is a choice and time and time again we have seen that AAA devs tend to lean towards getting most out of the visuals over smooth frame rates.

I do think 60 fps will be a bigger thing this gen because some devs simply can't afford to push visuals and a lot of games are just not good at 30 fps (fighting games, racing games, etc).

 

[PlanetSmasher]

I know and it hurts. Like I know it's unpopular here but I love the cross Gen period.

I've played and beat games on my Series just because the low frame rate on lastGen turned me off but the high frame rate makes it feel more FUN not just smooth. I started replaying CP2077 when they added performance mode to Series s in the last update.

I'll take performance over graphics any day. I am okay paying for next gen but for frame rates not new graphical tricks.

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Yeah, I just do not care about graphics at all anymore. It's all ephemeral, nothing lasts. Just give me a game that plays well over a game that looks good for five minutes before someone else leapfrogs it a week later.

 

[Deleted member 93062]

Nothing to be done about CPU usage, but for GPU limitations is there any particular reason the proliferation of console based FSR/DLSS like solutions seem to get very little attention?

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A lot of console games have used some form of temporal reconstruction for years. Those technologies are mostly big in the PC gaming space because they can be marketed better and people understand what they are.

 

[Lashley]

40 is the the new 60

 

[GulfCoastZilla]

I mean they could and I will just not play those yes.

 

[Rocketz]

sigh

 

[Kyoufu]

Give us Pro consoles that can do 60fps modes.

 

[jroc74]

Well this will be a fun thread.

I have said before, when its done good, 30fps is fine for me. It's when its messy where the problems come in.

Whatever devs need to do to get a stable, solid 30fps, do it.

 

[Deleted member 93062]

 

[BourbonAFC]

It was always going to happen. We've been spoiled with these cross gen titles. All the while complaining about cross gen every time a new game is revealed not to be next gen exclusive. But now they are coming and so is the inevitable return to 30 fps. AAA devs (and even AA devs) will always use that power to push graphics. And they'll sacrifice framerate and resolution every time if they have to.

The best we can hope for is games that offer performance modes.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

I'm not sure why some people always set themselves up for disappointment with a new gen, thinking 30fps will be gone when it never will be.

30fps is perfectly fine for many types of games and the longer a gen goes on, the more developers will want to push their games and the easiest way to do that is to go for 30fps instead of 60fps.

We will never get a gen without 30fps games.

 

[Carn]

Nothing to be done about CPU usage, but for GPU limitations is there any particular reason the proliferation of console based FSR/DLSS like solutions seem to get very little attention?

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Not really. Some developers prefer their own implementations like Insomniacs own temporal injection combined with a dynamic resolution.

 

[oni-link]

30fps is last gen, so we're going backwards to please the kind of people that lose their mind at facial animations in cut scenes lol

 

[JEH]

of course. anyone who tried to convince themselves otherwise was lying to themselves.

 

[cooldawn]

Thankfully I'm fine with it. I can't think of a 30fps game that I couldn't complete/enjoy because it's 30fps.

If a title is 60fps...cool but I don't mind lush visuals at 30fps.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Yes, it is inevitable.

But not offering a 60fps option should rarely be the case. Especially when we're talking about games like Gotham Knights.

 

[Nax]

I know I'm in the minority, but 30 is totally fine with me.

 

[Buff Beefbroth]

I literally do not mind.

 

[Vareon]

I mean yeah. Some devs really want to push visuals, others really want to push performance. It depends on the game.

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It boils down to this, yeah. Not all developers need (or want) to push 60fps.

 

[Torpedo Vegas]

Let's see what these new consoles can actually do.

 

[TitanicFall]

I only cared about 60fps after I got an OLED. 30fps is too rough on them. Might get a mini-LED as a secondary display.

 

[Funkelpop]

I'm gonna personally blame it on everyone who posted about wanting cross gen to die over the last 2 years

Cross gen was why we got 60fps games for so long

RIP, silky smooth frame rates

Welcome back, diminishing visual returns

Click to shrink...

I mean we got a few next gen only games that have had performance modes. Ratchet and Clank and Demon's Souls comes to mind. But I know with devs really trying to push the graphical boundaries of what these consoles are capable of, I can see us eventually getting 30fps games only.

 

[SpottieO]

I'm fine with a stable 30fps to be honest, I frequently end up playing in quality modes anyway.

 

[McStickenstein]

Good thing I don't play games because I just read about playing games on Era in 100+ hz screens.

On topic though, the level of hardware in consoles will at least allow non-AAA games to be more likely to hit 60+ fps, which is always a plus. Even if such games are not fully optimized, brute force can get good frame rates (hopefully).

And I too think inevitably the big budget productions will end up being 30 fps in the pursuit of graphical fidelity.

 

[Jroc]

Series S, Series X and PS5 all basically have the same CPU, so a game that's CPU-bound will be trapped at 30FPS regardless of the resolution. The console CPUs are also cut down a lot compared to the PC Zen 2 CPUs. They only have 30% of the cache and run almost 1ghz slower in boost workloads. The Ryzen 4700S which is a PS5 CPU with the iGPU disabled performs like a Zen 1 CPU.

I think that people are going to be surprised when they see the graphical quality of true current gen games running on Unreal 5. The current crop of 60FPS games are still very much in cross-gen territory.

30FPS will always be a design choice rather than a hardware one. There's no magical spec that suddenly enables 60FPS for every game. It's a moving target.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Mid-gen consoles will keep the 60fps dream alive. And while there will be a shift to 30fps on base consoles, I'm convinced we will still see lots of optional 60fps modes there (even if devs might have to make more compromises to get there).

 

[Chumunga64]

people only went hard on the 30FPS for gotham knights because the game looks like crap

far less people are gonna cry when GTA 6 or naughty dog's next game looks amazing but are only 30FPS

 

[Deleted member 93062]

Series S, Series X and PS5 all basically have the same CPU, so a game that's CPU-bound will be trapped at 30FPS regardless of the resolution. The console CPUs are also cut down a lot compared to the PC Zen 2 CPUs. They only have 30% of the cache and run almost 1ghz slower in boost workloads. The Ryzen 4700S which is a PS5 CPU with the iGPU disabled performs like a Zen 1 CPU.

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I recently bought a Ryzen 5 5600X, do you think I should be safe from those CPU intensive games for the consoles?

 

[Pai Pai Master]

If we keep getting 40fps/120hz modes that'll soften the blow bigtime for me

 

[jroc74]

I mean we got a few next gen only games that have had performance modes. Ratchet and Clank and Demon's Souls comes to mind. But I know with devs really trying to push the graphical boundaries of what these consoles are capable of, I can see us eventually getting 30fps games only.

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And Rift Apart is one of the games I bring up about doing 30fps really good.

 

[th1nk]

It is all down to game design. Cinematic games are OK at 40 fps, action games are not. I will not buy an action game at 30 fps and there will be backlash online. Also, there will very likely be mid-gen refresh consoles to boost those games back up to 60. I am not worried.

 

[Fiery Phoenix]

Fascinating writeup by Rich as always. I do agree with his point that as the generation progresses, 60fps becomes of a design element than a given.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

Agreed. Cross-gen was what was giving us these beautiful 4k/1440p/60fps modes.

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But all the major next-gen only games on PS5 so far are 60 fps or have that mode (Demon's Souls, Returnal, Ratchet & Clank, The Last of Us Part I)

 

[vixolus]

I recently bought a Ryzen 5 5600X, do you think I should be safe from those CPU intensive games for the consoles?

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yes thats my CPU and I can run plague tale maxed and typically have above 60 FPS. It has some weird lurches though.

The 5000 series had way better IPC than the 3000 series so cpu game perf increased greatly

 

[Dust]

While you were pushing 120 FPS on $10000000000 PC I studied the 30 FPS blade on my console.

I am ready.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

gamers: consoles are strong enough to have 60fps for all games
developers: man, that's a lot of power, wonder what I can do with it at 30fps

and that's why 30fps will always be here

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Every single gen since 3D became the norm. And as usual, if you want 60 (minimum) guaranteed, invest in a PC.