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RNC sent a fake Census form to Montana citizens; requested a $15 processing fee (there is no fee for the real census)

Syriel

Syriel

Banned
Dec 13, 2017
11,088
How low can you go?

Montana's governor is not happy about it because it could also lead to an undercount in the real census.

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Civil rights groups on Thursday blasted the Republican National Committee, claiming the group violated federal law and is trying to sow confusion after it mailed imitation census forms meant to mimic the real decennial to Montana voters to solicit money for President Trump's re-election campaign.

The RNC sent the forms — titled the 2019 Congressional District Census Mailer — to addresses in Bozeman, Montana and informed recipients that "Your Participation is Urgently Needed" with instructions such as "Do Not Destroy Official Document," and "return your Census Document." Sent in late September, the forms told recipients to return by Oct. 15.
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The RNC form includes questions about political party affiliation, foreign election interference and if they plan to support Trump in the 2020 election, among other topics. It also asks for donations to the RNC and Trump reelection campaign ranging from $25 to $1,000 and if they are unable to pay those amounts it urges recipients to send $15 to "help pay for the costs of processing my Census Document."
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"Furthermore, the letter solicits a contribution. In the context of the "official" language, the RNC's solicitation of contributions has the potential to defraud recipients into believing that payment is required for the completion of the official 2020 Census."

The groups said that they have asked Megan Brennan, the head of the U.S. Postal Service, to investigate the matter because it constitutes "fraudulent and deceptive practices that are injurious to the public."

The RNC denied that the mailings would create confusion.
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Source:
 
King Alamat

King Alamat

Member
Nov 22, 2017
8,117
Those are some loaded-ass questions and if your dumb ass filled that out, you deserve to be grifted.
 
ShyMel

ShyMel

Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
3,483
There is enough scammy junk mail out there. Political parties do not need to contribute towards more.
 
Darryl M R

Darryl M R

The Spectacular PlayStation-Man
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,721
"Liberal Republican"

wut?

Also, I need people to go to jail for this.
 
rpm

rpm

Into the Woods
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
12,356
Parts Unknown
Reminds me of when Ted Cruz pulled this shit:
tcsummons.jpg


Pretty sad that some Republicans have resorted to making their begging look like official, important letters just to get people to open them, make this shit illegal
 
night814

night814

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,040
Pennsylvania
rpm said:
Reminds me of when Ted Cruz pulled this shit:
tcsummons.jpg


Pretty sad that some Republicans have resorted to making their begging look like official, important letters just to get people to open them, make this shit illegal
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It affects older people at a really high rate unfortunately, the GOP will always try this shit on the most susceptible to it.
 
kirbyfan407

kirbyfan407

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,114
I think it's not limited to Montana... I can't remember exactly what I received in Washington, but I seem to recall receiving some kind of document that used similarly urgent language from the Republican Party. I recycled it because I knew they couldn't actually do anything. Maybe I'm misremembering, but this story seems very familiar with my own experience.
 
Kasey

Kasey

Member
Nov 1, 2017
10,822
Boise
They're so fucking mad that it's getting to where brown and black folks can't be ignored any longer.
 
skullmuffins

skullmuffins

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,426
kirbyfan407 said:
I think it's not limited to Montana... I can't remember exactly what I received in Washington, but I seem to recall receiving some kind of document that used similarly urgent language from the Republican Party. I threw it out because I knew they couldn't actually do anything. Maybe I'm misremembering, but this story seems very familiar with my own experience.
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it's definitely not limited to Montana. I remember seeing another report of this a few months ago from someone in CA. It's probably nationwide.


This isn't a new strategy from the Republican party, either. Looks like they sent out very similar fake census forms back in 2010: https://ontd-political.livejournal.com/6110089.html and google suggests they did the same thing in 2000, too.
 
ZealousD

ZealousD

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,303
Okay, I'm going to be completely honest.

There's about a million ways that this form could be more misleading to look like an actual census form. If they were actually looking to make people think this was an actual census form, there's so many other things they could have done. You'd have to be Nigerian Prince gullible to look at this and think it's an actual census form.
 
Jakenbakin

Jakenbakin

Member
Jun 17, 2018
11,825
ZealousD said:
Okay, I'm going to be completely honest.

There's about a million ways that this form could be more misleading to look like an actual census form. If they were actually looking to make people think this was an actual census form, there's so many other things they could have done. You'd have to be Nigerian Prince gullible to look at this and think it's an actual census form.
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It doesn't matter how gullible you have to be. Particularly for more senior citizens, people will fall for this. That it's obviously a scam does not excuse them from what should frankly be illegal activity. It's still a scam being sent out by representatives of our fucking nation.

I don't even care anymore. I live in possibly the reddest state there is but I very vocally make sure to tell everyone now if you stand with the Republicans, you stand against America. Disgusting.
 
ZealousD

ZealousD

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,303
Jakenbakin said:
It doesn't matter how gullible you have to be. Particularly for more senior citizens, people will fall for this. That it's obviously a scam does not excuse them from what should frankly be illegal activity. It's still a scam being sent out by representatives of our fucking nation.

I don't even care anymore. I live in possibly the reddest state there is but I very vocally make sure to tell everyone now if you stand with the Republicans, you stand against America. Disgusting.
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I'm not even sure it was INTENDED to be a scam. Like, is there anything in this mailer that would make it disproportionately more likely to con Democrats or minorities? It literally says the mailer is from the Republican party and they are asking for money. There's a whole multi-page screed that does nothing but fluff the egos of Republican voters by creating a persecution narrative about liberals and the media. If anything, if the intent of this mailer is to undercount certain populations on the census, this would BACKFIRE. A Republican is more likely to fill this out than a Democrat. If your intent is to fool the elderly, WHY DO THAT? Older generations lean Republican! Is there any evidence that this mailer is only being sent to Democrats?

Like I am cognizantly aware of all the dirty tricks and games that Republicans like to pull. Gerrymandering. Voter ID laws. They do all sorts of stuff with the aim of disproportionately hurting Democrats and minorities with the aim of grabbing power. But I don't think that's what this is.
 
Swig

Swig

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,496
People who pull fraudulent shit in politics need to go to fucking prison. The system is so corrupt because no one is held accountable.
 
skullmuffins

skullmuffins

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,426
ZealousD said:
I'm not even sure it was INTENDED to be a scam. Like, is there anything in this mailer that would make it disproportionately more likely to con Democrats or minorities? It literally says the mailer is from the Republican party and they are asking for money. There's a whole multi-page screed that does nothing but fluff the egos of Republican voters by creating a persecution narrative about liberals and the media. If anything, if the intent of this mailer is to undercount certain populations on the census, this would BACKFIRE. A Republican is more likely to fill this out than a Democrat. If your intent is to fool the elderly, WHY DO THAT? Older generations lean Republican! Is there any evidence that this mailer is only being sent to Democrats?

Like I am cognizantly aware of all the dirty tricks and games that Republicans like to pull. Gerrymandering. Voter ID laws. They do all sorts of stuff with the aim of disproportionately hurting Democrats and minorities with the aim of grabbing power. But I don't think that's what this is.
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they're not trying to trick democrats so they'll get undercounted on the real census, they're trying to trick old/dumb mostly republicans into giving the republican party money.
 
ZealousD

ZealousD

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,303
skullmuffins said:
they're not trying to trick democrats so they'll get undercounted on the real census, they're trying to trick old/dumb people into giving the republican party money.
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There's literally a quote in the article from Montana Governor Steve Bullock claiming that this is going to lead to an undercount.
 
NTGYK

NTGYK

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
3,470
Isn't that... Definitely... A federal crime?
 
skullmuffins

skullmuffins

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,426
ZealousD said:
There's literally a quote in the article from Montana Governor Steve Bullock claiming that this is going to lead to an undercount.
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sure, I think it's also true that some gullible people may fill this out thinking it's a real census and go on to disregard the actual form later on because "they already completed the census", but that's obviously not the primary motive of these mailers. it's a fundraising scam.
 
Rendering...

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
19,089
There's no point talking about this if the people responsible aren't jailed. Republicans will do anything to rig the election, including scamming old people and obstructing minorities' ability to vote. We need accountability. Right now.
 
ZealousD

ZealousD

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,303
skullmuffins said:
sure, I think it's also true that some gullible people may fill this out thinking it's a real census and go on to disregard the actual form later on because "they already completed the census", but that's obviously not the primary motive of these mailers. it's a fundraising scam.
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We are at least in agreement that the primary purpose of this mailer is to fundraise for the Republican party. But the whole construction of the questions and the text is designed to feed on the emotions and persecution complex of entrenched and faithful Republican voters, NOT centrists or Democrats.

Like it looks almost exactly like all those fake polls the Trump campaign puts out with leading and biased questions that ask you if Trump is either "Awesome" or "So Awesome".
 
RedStep

RedStep

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,652
ZealousD said:
There's literally a quote in the article from Montana Governor Steve Bullock claiming that this is going to lead to an undercount.
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You're overthinking it. The mailer looks like a census so gullible old people will send them cash. That's it. The undercount thing is a secondary concern from another person.

Republican or Democrat is irrelevant, the problem is that it looks to the uninformed like a census with a fee. It's made to look official, unlike stupid web polls.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
This has to be extremely illegal.

Edit: actually it seems like the document directly says it's for Republican fundraising. Scummy for making it look like officials documents, but most likely not illegal.
 
ZealousD

ZealousD

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,303
RedStep said:
You're overthinking it. The mailer looks like a census so gullible old people will send them cash. That's it. The undercount thing is a secondary concern from another person.
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There's so many other things they could do to make it look more like an official census form if that was their intent. This isn't the bare minimum in order to maintain some semblance of plausible deniability. I don't even see any questions asking for the kind of things you would see on a real census, like the standard demographic information.
 
Paz

Paz

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,151
Brisbane, Australia
ZealousD said:
Okay, I'm going to be completely honest.

There's about a million ways that this form could be more misleading to look like an actual census form. If they were actually looking to make people think this was an actual census form, there's so many other things they could have done. You'd have to be Nigerian Prince gullible to look at this and think it's an actual census form.
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This is kind of the point, there was an analysis done a while back about how effective scams often telegraph that they're scams upfront which leads to basically filtering out people who are going to be problematic to scam.

Being blatant bullshit you basically guarantee that the people engaging with you are the type of people likely to complete the scam.
 
Jakenbakin

Jakenbakin

Member
Jun 17, 2018
11,825
ZealousD said:
I'm not even sure it was INTENDED to be a scam. Like, is there anything in this mailer that would make it disproportionately more likely to con Democrats or minorities? It literally says the mailer is from the Republican party and they are asking for money. There's a whole multi-page screed that does nothing but fluff the egos of Republican voters by creating a persecution narrative about liberals and the media. If anything, if the intent of this mailer is to undercount certain populations on the census, this would BACKFIRE. A Republican is more likely to fill this out than a Democrat. If your intent is to fool the elderly, WHY DO THAT? Older generations lean Republican! Is there any evidence that this mailer is only being sent to Democrats?

Like I am cognizantly aware of all the dirty tricks and games that Republicans like to pull. Gerrymandering. Voter ID laws. They do all sorts of stuff with the aim of disproportionately hurting Democrats and minorities with the aim of grabbing power. But I don't think that's what this is.
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There is a box to check if you donate, otherwise there is a box to check saying you will instead send $15 to cover costs (which do not exist, it is still a contribution, hence fraud). It then goes to a third box that is irrelevant. It doesn't matter what your political affiliation is, they are still scamming people. Even if only Republicans respond and pay the $15, it is a scam.

Not really sure why you're defending it because it's "obviously" fake. That is obviously fake makes it more obvious it's a scam.
 
Ziltoidia 9

Ziltoidia 9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,142
Praying off of (mostly older) peoples ignorance.... you would think anyone that follows the GOP would refute this.

Also, do dems do this?
 
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