Rockstar Games and their double-standard.

[definedMF]

PLEASE READ ENTIRE POST BEFORE POSTING​

So this generation is winding down and it seems like its more and more likely Rockstar will only release one *new* game this generation (GTA V on PS4/XBOX/PC was a port lets be clear). This on top of the nonsense that we haven't seen gameplay footage of Red Dead Redemption 2 with less than 4 months out is completely ridiculous. There is also a double standard, along with Blizzard Interactive, for some people, with how they turn a blind eye on their handling of micro-transactions.

This is the double standard that Rockstar is measured with and it really can't be forgiven just because "It's Rockstar, They can do it!!! We trust them!!". A regular studio that doesn't show a game will be held with a extremely harsh viewpoint on forums and fans, but just because Rockstar does it's fine all of a sudden? A track record is one thing, and being fair to all studios/creators is another thing. We can expect Red Dead Redemption 2 to be a great game but at what point does not showing gameplay of a game so close to release, why isn't there any scrutiny towards them even after E3 has passed?

Rockstar released GTA IV, Max Payne 3, L.A. Noire, Midnight Club Los Angeles, Red Dead Redemption and GTA V all last generation. The decision of milking GTA V for its online micro-transactions isn't excuse for not releasing more games within this generation. With this absurd amount of cash-flow it would be nice to see them develop new IP's of the likes of Bully or the elusive/dead Agent. But alas, the studio and its production practices are becoming worse and worse as the years pass, ie. no GTA V sp DLC. As much claim that Rockstar gets along side studios like Naughty Dog and the likes, at least Naughty Dog has been able to develop potentially three different games this generation. It's well known that all their studios are working on Red Dead Redemption 2, and so with their copious amount of resources through their cash-cow GTA V, I would hope that they would allow and fund other games from their studios.

 

[Aokiji]

There is a double standard but, they earned it *shrug*. Also ppl have certainly complained about not seeing live gameplay for RDR2. And GTA Online is still completely fun and enjoyable if you don’t spend a single dollar because you don’t have to play it competitively

 

[ASleepingMonkey]

I don’t know why people are so shocked we didn’t see gameplay for GTA V until June or July, you’ll probably see something in July.

It’s really not a big deal, Rockstar has definitely proven themselves to be capable. I don’t think there’s a double standard.

Truthfully, I prefer it. I don’t really want to have a game showing stuff off months in advance because things get cut, expectations get too high, and it’s honestly more enjoyable to experience these things for the first time in-game. If someone’s that concerned about it, they should probably wait a few days after release to check online for gameplay videos and stuff to determine if they want the game.

Regrdless, we all have a fairly good idea of what the game is.

 

[Deleted member 249]

Hey, if it makes you feel any better, I have been calling Rockstar out on exactly all that bullshit (especially the no gameplay footage thing) for months now *shrug*

 

[DocSeuss]

How is this Rockstar's double standard, exactly? Isn't this a double standard on the part of fans who hate micros and still buy Rockstar games?

Your thesis isn't supported by your argument here.

 

[NotLiquid]

"Rockstar" is an apt name for their studio. For better and for worse they march by the beat of their own drum because of how they've made it to the unassailable top. And often times it's extremely obnoxious.

 

[Aaron D.]

Rockstar has always marched to the beat of their own drum.

I can sympathize with your disappointment, but I'd hardly qualify that as a double standard as they're not making or breaking any promises to play follow the leader with industry peers.

This is nothing new with them so your ire feels misguided.

 

[Necron]

Yes, it's frustrating that their output is so low this gen. Honestly, they have the luxury of being inefficient thanks to GTAV ridiculous earnings. I have very high expectations for Red Dead Redemption 2 partly because of this. But I'm pretty sure it'll deliver too.

 

[Phendrift]

Yup, Retro Studios is getting shit on left and right for not releasing in less of a timeframe when they’ve also made 5 amazing games

 

[Filament Star]

This is the double standard that Rockstar is measured with and it really can't be forgiven just because "It's Rockstar, They can do it!!! We trust them!!". A regular studio that doesn't show a game will be held with a extremely harsh viewpoint on forums and fans, but just because Rockstar does it's fine all of a sudden? A track record is one thing, and being fair to all studios/creators is another thing. We can expect Red Dead Redemption 2 to be a great game but at what point does not showing gameplay of a game so close to release, why isn't there any scrutiny towards them even after E3 has passed?​

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​

I mean, it's Rockstar, we can trust them. Does anyone really need to see RDR2 before release? I'd rather not, personally.

 

[RPGamer92]

It's extremely sad imo how people have ignored the lack of Rockstar games this gen because they're Rockstar. No matter who you are, only milking a remaster of a last gen game is totally unacceptable.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

I don't see how it's a double standard. If they don't release games often that's not really something to hold a standard to if their games are still critically and audience acclaimed when they do come out.

As to microtransactions, I agree there should be a bigger issue with it. Lord knows I complain about how shitty GTA online is with purchasing cool shit.

 

[Doskoi Panda]

"Rockstar" is an apt name for their studio. For better and for worse they march by the beat of their own drum because of how they've made it to the unassailable top. And often times it's extremely obnoxious.

Click to shrink...

Yep, 100%.

 

[AegonSnake]

PLEASE READ ENTIRE POST BEFORE POSTING​

So this generation is winding down and it seems like its more and more likely Rockstar will only release one *new* game this generation (GTA V on PS4/XBOX/PC was a port lets be clear). This on top of the nonsense that we haven't seen gameplay footage of Red Dead Redemption 2 with less than 4 months out is completely ridiculous. There is also a double standard, along with Blizzard Interactive, for some people, with how they turn a blind eye on their handling of micro-transactions.

This is the double standard that Rockstar is measured with and it really can't be forgiven just because "It's Rockstar, They can do it!!! We trust them!!". A regular studio that doesn't show a game will be held with a extremely harsh viewpoint on forums and fans, but just because Rockstar does it's fine all of a sudden? A track record is one thing, and being fair to all studios/creators is another thing. We can expect Red Dead Redemption 2 to be a great game but at what point does not showing gameplay of a game so close to release, why isn't there any scrutiny towards them even after E3 has passed?

Rockstar released GTA IV, Max Payne 3, L.A. Noire, Midnight Club Los Angeles, Red Dead Redemption and GTA V all last generation. The decision of milking GTA V for its online micro-transactions isn't excuse for not releasing more games within this generation. With this absurd amount of cash-flow it would be nice to see them develop new IP's of the likes of Bully or the elusive/dead Agent. But alas, the studio and its production practices are becoming worse and worse as the years pass, ie. no GTA V sp DLC. As much claim that Rockstar gets along side studios like Naughty Dog and the likes, at least Naughty Dog has been able to develop potentially three different games this generation. It's well known that all their studios are working on Red Dead Redemption 2, and so with their copious amount of resources through their cash-cow GTA V, I would hope that they would allow and fund other games from their studios.

Click to shrink...

The double standard is with the consumers and the critics who keep rating these games like they are the second coming. 97-98 on metacritic for GTA 4 and 5 makes no sense whatsoever. their level and mission design is poor, stuck in the PS2 era. They still spend hours, literally hours making you drive from one place to another. Red Dead was the same. Their stories are awful with shitty irredeemable characters so just exactly what are they praised for? A detailed world with useless side quests? Clearly the gamers love it. They sell millions of copies. But the critics need a kick up their ass.

Rockstar doesnt need to show gameplay because everyone knows exactly what red dead will play like. and they know critics will hand them 10s as long as they create a detailed world.

 

[SirKai]

"Rockstar" is an apt name for their studio. For better and for worse they march by the beat of their own drum because of how they've made it to the unassailable top. And often times it's extremely obnoxious.

Click to shrink...

This.

But I'm not really a fan of Rockstar games so even though I'm annoyed by the lack of games they've released this gen, it's not a crushing disappointment (but I did empathize).

 

[SprachBrooks]

I dislike it but it’s not really Rockstar’s double-standard is it?

 

[collige]

If RDR2 has a budget at least as big as that for GTAV, then it makes sense since literally every Rockstar studio worked on that and Max Payne 3 last gen. San Diego also got hit with pretty heavy layoffs after RDR1 so I doubt they could develop a game if they wanted to. That isn't to say that Take 2 shouldn't re-invest more into Rockstar, but at this point it would involve opening up new studios since at this point it seems as though Rockstar is all hands on deck making mega-blockbusters that are even bigger than Ubisoft games in scope.

(your list also forgot Manhunt 2 and Table Tennis btw)

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Rockstar "gets away with" this because their games review highly and sell well for years. If/when they have a game underperform, then they will change their marketing strategy. As long as they aren't pushing out misleading cgi, I don't have a problem with it.

Bethesda tried something similar, it worked for Doom, but sent Prey and Dishonored 2 to die.

That's how the free market works.

 

[RevenantAxe]

Rockstar don't give a fuk
They do whatever they like coz you gonna buy whatever they make .

 

[Deleted member 5535]

My friend, I completely agree that Rockstar has a double standard. Be it in how the company treat their employees, in MTX or in development. And you're totally right that we should see gameplay of the game when it's going to launch so soon.

But about the last point, unlike the last generation, now all studios are working in one project. You'll never see Rockstar launching many games as before. Red Dead Redemption 2 is their game for now and the other one is the new gta for the next generation. If they launch another game, it's probably going to be something minor.

 

[Velocity:Design:Comfort]

It's extremely sad imo how people have ignored the lack of Rockstar games this gen because they're Rockstar. No matter who you are, only milking a remaster of a last gen game is totally unacceptable.

Click to shrink...

They dont owe you or anyone else a game. Are you a take 2 shareholder? If not that is laughable. Dont buy their game then I guess but whats with this entitlement?


Op, who are these strawmen you made up who defend rockstar like this? Ive never seen them on era. They get a ton of shit for their online and mtx stuff and the rdr delays.

 

[Aaron D.]

The double standard is with the consumers and the critics who keep rating these games like they are the second coming. 97-98 on metacritic for GTA 4 and 5 makes no sense whatsoever. their level and mission design is poor, stuck in the PS2 era. They still spend hours, literally hours making you drive from one place to another. Red Dead was the same. Their stories are awful with shitty irredeemable characters so just exactly what are they praised for? A detailed world with useless side quests? Clearly the gamers love it. They sell millions of copies. But the critics need a kick up their ass.

Rockstar doesnt need to show gameplay because everyone knows exactly what red dead will play like. and they know critics will hand them 10s as long as they create a detailed world.

Click to shrink...

Well that escalated quickly.

 

[Deleted member 268]

Expect delays close to the end of the gen.

Rockstar is gunning for double dippers

 

[Conor419]

Rockstar are one of two S-Rank studios in the world (Nintendo EPD being the other), how do people continue to not get that they have earned gamers' trust.

 

[definedMF]

How is this Rockstar's double standard, exactly? Isn't this a double standard on the part of fans who hate micros and still buy Rockstar games?

Your thesis isn't supported by your argument here.

Click to shrink...

Definitely should have been clearer on the consumers/critics double standard in the title but the point remains true.

My friend, I completely agree that Rockstar has a double standard. Be it in how the company treat their employees, in MTX or in development. And you're totally right that we should see gameplay of the game when it's going to launch so soon.

But about the last point, unlike the last generation, now all studios are working in one project. You'll never see Rockstar launching many games as before. Red Dead Redemption 2 is their game for now and the other one is the new gta for the next generation. If they launch another game, it's probably going to be something minor.

Click to shrink...

I made it pretty clear that's its very much probable for teams to develop more than 1 game at a time, ie Naughty Dog, Insomniac etc. Development times have really have ballooned that is true, but it hasn't stopped various first rate AAA devs to develop games of various sizes. Insominac them selves have developed several VR experiences this generation,a third person action platformer, 2 open world games for first party publishers and a passion project lower-budget indie esque game.

 

[dreamobserver]

I mean it's understandable because of their track record. Like people give Nintendo an excuse for their shitty online components. I'm more interested in seeing their quality of games now that Benzies is gone.

 

[StuBurns]

I don't understand this argument. They don't owe you transparency. Buy the game or don't. Any dev/pub showing a game ahead of release is doing so as part of the marketing for the game, no publisher markets their games as effectively as R*, so it's the opposite actually. They're clearly doing it right.

Wait for the reviews if you're concerned, but it's going to be incredible.

 

[Deleted member 135]

It's extremely sad imo how people have ignored the lack of Rockstar games this gen because they're Rockstar. No matter who you are, only milking a remaster of a last gen game is totally unacceptable.

Click to shrink...

Why do they have to put out more than one game a generation if they so choose?

The Elder Scrolls series is skipping this generation, thats from another top tier developer.

 

[violent]

Company creates a product.
Company chooses to market the product as they see fit.
The consumer has the option to preorder, not order, or wait and see.

It's a simple relationship between both parties. Not sure why the need to complicate things with expectations based on ones own subjective determination.

 

[NinjaScooter]

It’s a double standard if it’s the same people saying different things, and not “Era” or “GAF”. For me, they’ve earned that benefit of the doubt with regards to development time and their marketing strategy.

 

[Velocity:Design:Comfort]

The double standard is with the consumers and the critics who keep rating these games like they are the second coming. 97-98 on metacritic for GTA 4 and 5 makes no sense whatsoever. their level and mission design is poor, stuck in the PS2 era. They still spend hours, literally hours making you drive from one place to another. Red Dead was the same. Their stories are awful with shitty irredeemable characters so just exactly what are they praised for? A detailed world with useless side quests? Clearly the gamers love it. They sell millions of copies. But the critics need a kick up their ass.

Rockstar doesnt need to show gameplay because everyone knows exactly what red dead will play like. and they know critics will hand them 10s as long as they create a detailed world.

Click to shrink...

I dont think this is a condescendingly rant about how well liked game is secretly garbage kind of thread.

 

[Cocolina]

Not getting what you want isn’t a double standard

 

[nightstalker962]

Damn your list is also missing Table Tennis, two GTA IV expansions, Manhunt 2, and Bully which might as well be counted.

 

[Nintendo]

Rockstar don't have multiple teams anymore. They are all working on RDR2 as a single team. RDR2 is a Rockstar Global Production. So yes, GTA V money allowed them to afford that. Having all their studios to work on a singe game wasn't an easy decision I imagine.

Since when devs HAVE TO release a new game? That's a new complaint.


Rockstar earned their position in the industry and they deserve it. If ND do this, I'd be happy too.

 

[Deleted member 28076]

You are on some serious brainwashed capitalism shit if you sincerely believe that a game developer is bad because they take longer to make video games.

You also seem to be ignoring that RDR was the first non-GTA non-Midnight Club game Rockstar ever made that sold profitably, and turning a blind eye to the fact that video games are significantly harder to make than they used to be, even more than the seventh generation, and a ludicrous amount more than the sixth generation. And on top of that: if you’re mad about the focus on games as a service, shouldn’t you be directing your ire at publisher Take Two?

 

[Brandon]

GTA V being one of the best games ever made and being one of the highest selling games of all time has earned them the right not to show gameplay if they don't feel the need to.

 

[Deleted member 4541]

Double standard, definitely, but its Rockstar.

 

[Loxley]

I think at this point Rockstar have earned the benefit of the doubt regarding holding their games close to the chest. They've got a pretty damn stellar track record so they have every right to market their games how they want. It's just how they operate.

 

[Khamsinvera]

Money talks - why would they wanna divert funding from their cash cow? It's a business.

 

[Bhonar]

The double standard is with the consumers and the critics who keep rating these games like they are the second coming. 97-98 on metacritic for GTA 4 and 5 makes no sense whatsoever. their level and mission design is poor, stuck in the PS2 era. They still spend hours, literally hours making you drive from one place to another. Red Dead was the same. Their stories are awful with shitty irredeemable characters so just exactly what are they praised for? A detailed world with useless side quests? Clearly the gamers love it. They sell millions of copies. But the critics need a kick up their ass.

Click to shrink...

lol have u ever considered that some reviewers actually DO like the games??

a reviewer doesn't have to hold themselves up to some higher abnormal standard. they can just rate it based on whether they liked playing a game or not

 

[saenima]

I only need to see gameplay when i'm about to buy a game. Not 6 months before. Also, they don't owe you games. If they decide to release a game every 20 years it's their business.

I agree with the 'micro' transaction bullshit.

 

[hydruxo]

I think generally Rockstar gets away with doing whatever the hell they want because their games are consistently top tier. If they weren't, they'd probably get more flack for not showing gameplay for a game that's due to release in a few months. I'm honestly not a big fan of it either but I do like their games so I let it slide. They've done their own thing for a while and I don't see that changing considering how much success they've had.

 

[Nintendo]

The double standard is with the consumers and the critics who keep rating these games like they are the second coming. 97-98 on metacritic for GTA 4 and 5 makes no sense whatsoever. their level and mission design is poor, stuck in the PS2 era. They still spend hours, literally hours making you drive from one place to another. Red Dead was the same. Their stories are awful with shitty irredeemable characters so just exactly what are they praised for? A detailed world with useless side quests? Clearly the gamers love it. They sell millions of copies. But the critics need a kick up their ass.

Rockstar doesnt need to show gameplay because everyone knows exactly what red dead will play like. and they know critics will hand them 10s as long as they create a detailed world.

Click to shrink...

You don't like the game and you think others shouldn't like it too?

 

[Retozhe]

Damn you, Valve!!! ...err, I mean, Rockstar!

 

[StevePharma]

I remember that the first real unscripted gameplay of GTAIV I saw was on RELEASE DAY from the IGN review. Streaming wasn't really a thing yet back then (although leaked copies were out there at the time) Very unprecedented even at the time (at least that's how I felt).

I hope Rockstar keeps being this way. They feel so different from the other industry players, I kinda love it in a weird way. I want them to be different.

I don't agree that not showing gameplay is nonsense. I wish more publishers did that actually. Some games have so much preview footage it's not even funny. It happens with movies now too, trailers spoil so much.

Vote with your wallet or wait for reviews before purchasing if not seeing footage before release is a dealbreaker. You don't have to be there on day 1 even with all the preorder incentives, that's just FOMO kicking in.

Looking forward to October ! ;)

 

[Nintendo Switch]

My hope is that they started working on GTA 6 years ago but realized that what they aim to achieve with it just wasn’t possible on a Jaguar cpu. Hence why theyre keeping their work on it under wraps until next gen arrives

Would be amazing if they launch GTA6 as a launch game the next gen consoles with 100% fully destructible environments, life like AI for all in game characters and the ability to enter any building that you see and interact with anyone that you see.

I want a game with full freedom. If you want you can get a job as a cop and ride around solving crimes. Or you can become a world class boxer, or car racer etc.

I want a real next gen experience that pushes the Zen 3 cpu in next gen consoles to its absolute limit.

 

[Alethiometer]

what point does not showing gameplay of a game so close to release, why isn't there any scrutiny towards them even after E3 has passed?

Click to shrink...

Not sure what you meant by that. What do you want us to do? Write letters of complaint and beg to be fed marketing down our throats? How dare they promote the game however they want. It's not like we kickstarted the game.

 

[StuBurns]

I remember that the first real unscripted gameplay of GTAIV I saw was on RELEASE DAY from the IGN review. Streaming wasn't really a thing yet back then (although leaked copies were out there at the time) Very unprecedented even at the time (at least that's how I felt).

Click to shrink...

Oh man, that GAF thread when the first leaked footage hit. Holy shit. I remember the dude running around with a shotgun, blasting people in a basketball court.

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

Yup there's 100% a double standard, other studios get ragged on for taking a while to develop games, but Rockstar gets a fraction of the same treatment.

 

[HamCormier]

Okay so maybe this is not for you, but they've been updating GTA Online pretty steadily in the last 4 years :

http://gta.wikia.com/wiki/Updates_in_GTA_Online

All of those updates often include voice acting, animated cut-scenes and brand new vehicles/weapons.