ROTS vs TLJ

Which is the better movie?


  • Total voters
    1,351

Lunar Wolf

Member
Nov 6, 2017
10,728
Los Angeles
People don't put together that the two people named "Skywalker" are related?

Watching prequels first is shitty, George Lucas is an idiot. "No, I am your father" is the reveal you don't want to ruin.
You’d be surprised how much goes over casual viewers’ heads.

A lot of people don’t know Luke’s last name. They just know that Darth Vader says “Luke, I am your father.”

Or some people do know if pressed but won’t give it enough thought for it to sink in.

Most people don’t watch Star Wars to analyze it but as a popcorn film

Anecdotal, but be seen this happen with 4 different people irl when I made them go PT-> OT route
 

Lunar Wolf

Member
Nov 6, 2017
10,728
Los Angeles
People don't put together that the two people named "Skywalker" are related?

Watching prequels first is shitty, George Lucas is an idiot. "No, I am your father" is the reveal you don't want to ruin.
Also “I am your father” isn’t a reveal anymore. Everyone and their grandma knows Darth Vader says the line to the protagonist.

There are better twists if you go through the PT first.

The Republic becomes the Empire

Anakin is Darth Vader

The Jedi Order is destroyed

Anakin marries and has twin children
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,598
Brazil
I will say this, I think TLJ is a really good movie but when Finn and Rose are being chased on horses on the casino planet, I thought, this is not what I ever expected Episode VIII to be.
Like the Patrick Willems video I posted a fw pages back say, if you don't find joy in seeing lots of rich people's stuff being destroyed, you are dead inside
 

Aaron

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,794
People don't put together that the two people named "Skywalker" are related?

Watching prequels first is shitty, George Lucas is an idiot. "No, I am your father" is the reveal you don't want to ruin.
I showed my now-fiancee the OT for the first time in 2015 (in the run-up to TFA), and I was surprised how much hadn't been spoiled for her by way of pop culture osmosis.

She knew about Vader being Luke's dad (because it seems to be THE spoiler), and enough jokes had been made about the incestuous undertones between Luke and Leia that I'm pretty sure she knew they were siblings, but nearly the entire plot of Jedi seemed to have been a blank slate to her. Yoda's death and Vader's sacrifice both made her cry, which was interesting to me because I think seeing the movies as a kid meant I didn't internalize the severity of those characters dying, and I just took it for granted as an adult that that's what happens in the story.

Also led to this amazing conversation before we watched any of them:

Me: "So yeah, they're getting everyone back for Force Awakens. Mark Hamill, Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher..."
Her: "What about James Earl Jones?"
Me: "No, he's not coming back."
Her: "Doesn't he play Darth Vader?"
Me: "Yeah."
Her: "But how are they going to do a new Star Wars without Vader? Isn't he like, the bad guy of the whole series?"
Me: ... ... ... "YEAH IT'S REALLY WEIRD ISN'T IT"
 

VonGreckler

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,476
I showed my now-fiancee the OT for the first time in 2015 (in the run-up to TFA), and I was surprised how much hadn't been spoiled for her by way of pop culture osmosis.

She knew about Vader being Luke's dad (because it seems to be THE spoiler), and enough jokes had been made about the incestuous undertones between Luke and Leia that I'm pretty sure she knew they were siblings, but nearly the entire plot of Jedi seemed to have been a blank slate to her. Yoda's death and Vader's sacrifice both made her cry, which was interesting to me because I think seeing the movies as a kid meant I didn't internalize the severity of those characters dying, and I just took it for granted as an adult that that's what happens in the story.

Also led to this amazing conversation before we watched any of them:

Me: "So yeah, they're getting everyone back for Force Awakens. Mark Hamill, Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher..."
Her: "What about James Earl Jones?"
Me: "No, he's not coming back."
Her: "Doesn't he play Darth Vader?"
Me: "Yeah."
Her: "But how are they going to do a new Star Wars without Vader? Isn't he like, the bad guy of the whole series?"
Me: ... ... ... "YEAH IT'S REALLY WEIRD ISN'T IT"
Pretty much same thing happened with my wife when I showed her the OT, minus the TFA lead-up stuff as this was prior to Disney buying Lucasfilm
 

Biggersmaller

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,078
Minneapolis
ROTS is comically bad. Anakin's transition from loving father and husband to psychopath child murdering space Nazi made zero sense given the character presented and overall tone and pacing of the story to that point. But even if you let that go. The plastic one room green screen acting, out of place tacky gratuitous special effects, the endless soulless light saber scenes, and utterly unbelievable romance as the crutch of the plot - makes it not just a bad Star Wars movie - but nonsensical shit film in general.

TLJ is not perfect. Yet, a pretty good Star Wars flick.

I will say this, I think TLJ is a really good movie but when Finn and Rose are being chased on horses on the casino planet, I thought, this is not what I ever expected Episode VIII to be.
This is exactly where I'm at. Establish a tyrannical upper class for the sole purpose of Fin feeling good about the space horse liberation - but to hell with those child slaves.
 

IceDoesntHelp

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,801
Can we stop with this fucking last Jedi shit.
Just stfu about the damn movie.
I loved it, but can we stop trying to add fuel to the fire of hatred?
 

Lunar Wolf

Member
Nov 6, 2017
10,728
Los Angeles
ROTS is comically bad. Anakin's transition from loving father and husband to psychopath child murdering space Nazi made zero sense given the character presented and overall tone and pacing of the story to that point. But even if you let that go. The plastic one room green screen acting, out of place tacky gratuitous special effects, the endless soulless light saber scenes, and utterly unbelievable romance as the crutch of the plot - makes it not just a bad Star Wars movie - but nonsensical shit film in general.
How can he be a loving father when he's not even a dad yet until the last 5 minutes of ROTS?

Anakin has been a child-murdering blackshirt since AOTC.







 
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Deleted member 41638

User requested account closure
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Apr 3, 2018
1,164
"The attempt on my life has left me scarred and deformed. But, I assure you, my resolve has never been stronger.
In order to ensure our security and continuing stability, the Republic will be reorganized into the first Galactic Empire for a safe and secure society.
"

vs.

"Yes I'm holding for General Hux' mother"

Even with his multiple head turns and spinny lightsaber move Palpatine is 10x better than any of the antagonists in TLJ
 

Leonadar

Member
Oct 27, 2017
253
I voted for Last Jedi. I'm in the process of going through the Star Wars movies in chronological order. That prequel trilogy is really hard to get through.
 

Heid

Member
Jan 7, 2018
1,624
This is exactly where I'm at. Establish a tyrannical upper class for the sole purpose of Fin feeling good about the space horse liberation - but to hell with those child slaves.
The whole of Canto Bight is pure hollywood garbage. Finn is a former mind slave but he doesn't want to free the children. Del Toros character turns up outta nowhere to give them a free flight. But the worst part of it is... Finn and Rose, chillin on a balcony.

The entirety of Resistance is counting on them. Every second they spend could be the second that ship blows up. And they're just fuckin chillin out, watching horseys. And at the end, they're just standing there like "now its worth it" these characters should be thinking all the people they love are fucking dead because of them but instead they feel good about freeing a space horse.

It's insane theres people who think TLJ is a cohesive movie. All SW are dumb, no exceptions lol
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,023
USA
How can he be a loving father when he's not even a dad yet until the last 5 minutes of ROTS?

Anakin has been s child-murdering blackshirt since AOTC.







I actually thought this was one of the rare moments when the comedy actually works/flows with their characters. Anakin was fucking with her (and it also serves as some foreshadowing) and they eventually laugh it off. Though it was so convincing because on some level Anakin actually thinks that haha.
 

Revan

Member
Nov 9, 2017
183
ROTS is watchable all the way through with the except of the turn scene - Hayden’s acting is....yah.

TLJ is two separate movies - the Luke/Rey/Kylo stuff and then the....other stuff. Only half the movie is watchable to me.

ROTS is my third fave movie behind ESB and ROTJ, so I’m a little biased.

ROTS gets my vote.
 

Lunar Wolf

Member
Nov 6, 2017
10,728
Los Angeles
I actually thought this was one of the rare moments when the comedy actually works/flows with their characters. Anakin was fucking with her (and it also serves as some foreshadowing) and they eventually laugh it off. Though it was so convincing because on some level Anakin actually thinks that haha.
One of the only good scenes in AOTC between Anakin and Padme that's not just memes.
 
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Drewton

Drewton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,340
Anakin lives in a Republic that does nothing about slavery on his home planet, and the Jedi didn't do anything to free his mother. No surprise he doesn't think much of the system and thinks a dictatorship with the right view would be better.
 

Lunar Wolf

Member
Nov 6, 2017
10,728
Los Angeles
Anakin lives in a Republic that does nothing about slavery on his home planet, and the Jedi didn't do anything to free his mother. No surprise he doesn't think much of the system and thinks a dictatorship with the right view would be better.
He's also been told all his life that he's the chosen one so he already has an immediate buy in to messianic leaders that'll fix everything.

Padme asks if he's talking about himself and Anakin denies it but he totally is thinking he'll be right for the job eventually.



 

Gustaf

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
7,644
He's also been told all his life that he's the chosen one so he already has an immediate buy in to messianic leaders that'll fix everything.

Padme asks if he's talking about himself and Anakin denies it but he totally is thinking he'll be right for the job eventually.



damn you george lucas!!

the pt had so much potential u.u
 

Certinfy

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
3,229
The Last Jedi is one of the worst movies I've ever seen.

Revenge of the Sith is one of the worst action movies I've ever seen.

Return of the Sith is the better movie.
 
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Drewton

Drewton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,340
I hope we had a scene in AOTC where Anakin raged at Owen for not defending Shmi, and cut ties with the adopted family.
 

Pharaoh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
940
Let's say you can remake RoTS and end up with a great movie without making any major changes to the story, just with better writing and better execution. You can't do that with TLJ.
 

Mewzard

Member
Feb 4, 2018
1,144
Let's say you can remake RoTS and end up with a great movie without making any major changes to the story, just with better writing and better execution. You can't do that with TLJ.
You don't need to remake TLJ to end up with a great movie, because it's already a great movie. Not a perfect movie mind you, but definitely worthy to stand with the best of the OT (and absolutely better than RotJ).

RotS, meanwhile, needs a completely redone script, far better direction, and actually does need some major changes to the story to be decent (most notably a better transition from Anakin to Vader and an improved role/end for Padme). Honestly, a lot of the issues could have been fixed if it had two good movies proceeding it that better established Anakin's arc. No amount of good ideas made this trilogy work, and being the best of a terrible quality trilogy does not make RotS all that great. Solid music, some pretty looking shots, and memes, that's the RotS legacy.
 

CloseTalker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,621
TLJ is the only truly great Star Wars movie, it's on such a different level from a writing and direction standpoint. Fans just dont' know how to manage themselves when the plot deviates from the stock hero's journey template.
 

Lunar Wolf

Member
Nov 6, 2017
10,728
Los Angeles
You don't need to remake TLJ to end up with a great movie, because it's already a great movie. Not a perfect movie mind you, but definitely worthy to stand with the best of the OT (and absolutely better than RotJ).

RotS, meanwhile, needs a completely redone script, far better direction, and actually does need some major changes to the story to be decent (most notably a better transition from Anakin to Vader and an improved role/end for Padme). Honestly, a lot of the issues could have been fixed if it had two good movies proceeding it that better established Anakin's arc. No amount of good ideas made this trilogy work, and being the best of a terrible quality trilogy does not make RotS all that great. Solid music, some pretty looking shots, and memes, that's the RotS legacy.
Just add the deleted scenes that were in Lucas' draft where Padme helps form the Rebellion and tries to kill Anakin.

Dialogue, directing and acting would be inherently improved with a remake.

The plot beats themselves and the concepts that it's throwing down don't actually have to be changed.

And to be honest, Anakin's already murdered children in AOTC so it's not really that unbelievable if he murders children in ROTS if he thinks it's for Padme.
 

Lunar Wolf

Member
Nov 6, 2017
10,728
Los Angeles
TLJ is the only truly great Star Wars movie, it's on such a different level from a writing and direction standpoint. Fans just dont' know how to manage themselves when the plot deviates from the stock hero's journey template.
How is Rey's story in TLJ not a stock hero's journey template?

My biggest issue with TLJ is that 2 out of 3 of its plotlines are boring and actively made me not care about Poe and Finn.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,115
How is Rey's story in TLJ not a stock hero's journey template?

My biggest issue with TLJ is that 2 out of 3 of its plotlines are boring and actively made me not care about Poe and Finn.
The plotlines are all great in TLJ. Poe and Finn both have good arcs, they made me like both characters more.
 

Lunar Wolf

Member
Nov 6, 2017
10,728
Los Angeles
The plotlines are all great in TLJ. Poe and Finn both have good arcs, they made me like both characters more.
Plotwise, they’re wasted mostly a waste of time. In a TV show, that isn’t a problem but here it is because there’s only 3 movies. Developing the new trio separately was not a good idea

Second, it also grates at how Holdo and Leia gush over Poe when he just tried to mutiny.

Third, Finn and Poe’s arcs aren’t compelling enough to justify the time used on them. And even with people that like TLJ, there is s lot of complaining that YLJ wasted Finn as a character.
 

Pharaoh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
940
You don't need to remake TLJ to end up with a great movie, because it's already a great movie. Not a perfect movie mind you, but definitely worthy to stand with the best of the OT (and absolutely better than RotJ).

RotS, meanwhile, needs a completely redone script, far better direction, and actually does need some major changes to the story to be decent (most notably a better transition from Anakin to Vader and an improved role/end for Padme). Honestly, a lot of the issues could have been fixed if it had two good movies proceeding it that better established Anakin's arc. No amount of good ideas made this trilogy work, and being the best of a terrible quality trilogy does not make RotS all that great. Solid music, some pretty looking shots, and memes, that's the RotS legacy.
As soon as I hit the post button I knew somebody would reply "it's already great". It isn't. But people are free to like it.

RoTS would need all that but you could make a great film even maintaining the major story beats but executed well. Everything that needs to happen, happen, but everything is badly realized.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,115
This thread is giving me a little joy each time it bumps.

As soon as I hit the post button I knew somebody would reply "it's already great". It isn't. But people are free to like it.

RoTS would need all that but you could make a great film even maintaining the major story beats but executed well. Everything that needs to happen, happen, but everything is badly realized.
TLJ is a great film. Well written, acted, amazing visuals, strong story and plots for each character, great send off for Luke... just awesome all-round.
 

Pharaoh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
940
TLJ is a great film. Well written, acted, amazing visuals, strong story and plots for each character, great send off for Luke... just awesome all-round.
Only thing I agree is amazing visuals. The rest range from bad to garbage. I tried to watch it again in preparation for TRoS and just couldn't. Just an awful film.
 

Pharaoh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
940
Na, I misrememebered the score.

And you are quoting me over and over too, in a thread where the poll has clearly upset you.
You started quoting me, I just gave my opinion and quoted one other person afterwards. You're so hellbent trying to push this bad movie as something great that you got lost. Anyway, I'm done with this.
 
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Drewton

Drewton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,340
I keep seeing people thinking that Era seems to uniquely hate the prequels a lot but I’ve seen just as strong dislike for the prequels everywhere over the years
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,115
You started quoting me, I just gave my opinion and quoted one other person afterwards. You're so hellbent trying to push this bad movie as something great that you got lost. Anyway, I'm done with this.
People like you get so upset by the poll you need to come in and state your opinions as fact, and when someone uses that tactic against you... you get all hissy.

Sorry the poll upset you mate.

Well, you were the first one to bring it up :)
Then you haven't acrually read the thread at all... lol.