ROTS vs TLJ

Which is the better movie?


  • Total voters
    1,351

Vito

formerly Undead Fantasy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,043
It's even less fair to compare TLJ to AOTC 😂

Especially the part where Sheev is holding the wrong lightsaber for large parts of it and how it rushes Anakin's turn to the darkside. I especially enjoy the random shot of Anakin running past a bunch of dead jedi bodies, not questioning it, and slowing down to walk. And somehow believing the guy with lightning hands isn't too dangerous to be kept alive. Which is followed by the murder of children five minutes later because fuck good pacing and writing.
Anakin doesn't care for those dead Jedi. He only cares to learn how to save Padme. I see nothing wrong with him on that scene.
 

TheHunter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,379
I think 90 percent can agree AotC sucks ass compared to every other film in the series.

Even Solo .
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,173
Anakin doesn't care for those dead Jedi. He only cares to learn how to save Padme. I see nothing wrong with him on that scene.
Besides again, it showing that one of the most talented generals during the CW, good friend of Obi-wan, was actually an easily manipulated idiot. There is a way to do the premise of Anakin getting manipulated by preying on his fears well, ROTS is not the way. Hence him being essentially a completely different character in media written after the prequels.
 

Lunar Wolf

Member
Nov 6, 2017
10,700
Los Angeles
I should know better than to come into TLJ threads at this point...

It doesn't feel like a normal difference of opinion, it feels like half the internet saw a completely different movie. I don't hate Revenge of the Sith but thinking any of the prequels are better than TLJ is so absurd to me.
I mean that's easy to explain. A lot of people hate the direction that TLJ took story in.

If everything stayed the same, the shot, the angles, the actors, the overall story and you just changed a few things, it would be a lot less divisive.

There are certain things that people will never get on board with.

Now with ROTS, you knew where things were going from the start because these people have seen the OT and also it overexceeded the low expectations set by the previous two prequels on top of the pure entertainment value that ROTS is as a product. As a meme movie, it's great.
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,871
If you notice, Kylo is blocking high and he attacks low so Kylo stabs the saber into the ground to block the attack.
Except they’re timing is off, Adam does the downward stab before the low attack is properly telegraphed.
its... soo.... stupid lol

he jabs his lightsaber in the ground and then someone hits the lightsaber

people run away from Rey for no reason

one of the red guys hits his staff against another red guys staff!


FUCK
Pay real close attention and you’ll notice a single guard to the rear of Rey just standing around awkwardly until the group on the left walks away. Then in his moment to shine he STARTS to move forward, hesitates because his timing was off with Daisy, and then comes in with the off balance thrust because of it. XD
 

davepoobond

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,711
www.squackle.com
Except they’re timing is off, Adam does the downward stab before the low attack is properly telegraphed.


Pay real close attention and you’ll notice a single guard to the rear of Rey just standing around awkwardly until the group on the left walks away. Then in his moment to shine he STARTS to move forward, hesitates because his timing was off with Daisy, and then comes in with the off balance thrust because of it. XD
why would they use this as a final. this movie is a MESS
 

Herne

Member
Dec 10, 2017
1,927
You need to pay attention to the movements dude.

Alot of the pt fights had needless twirls and pointless embellishments.
I think you could make the point that the Jedi were, if not in their prime in the prequels, at least a continuous and ongoing organisation over thousands of years and so to emphasise that they emphasised a kind of "flow" to the combat they'd all have been trained in to some standardised degree, with more emphasis on use of the Force during a lightsaber duel. By comparison in TFA and TLJ you have barely trained kids hacking at each other. It gives the lightsaber combat a more physical feel and a visceral edge that the prequels are missing, but it's easy to see that a Jedi Knight from the prequels would wreck any of these kids and their wild wailing on each other.

As a result the duels in the prequels look a bit floaty and weird (except for the Qui-Gon & Obi-Wan Vs. Darth Maul fight, probably because they are pushing up against a larger object than your standard lightsaber) and the ones in TFA and TLJ don't, they look a bit more like the fights in the original trilogy, just updated a bit to be ever so slightly flashier. One definitely seems better to us than the other.

Of course you could say I'm just desperately seeking for an in-universe reason that doesn't exist to explain why the prequels duels (mostly) suck by comparison, but it's as valid a theory as any about anything in these films.

But yes that Anakin and Obi-Wan spinny thing was what-the-hell-were-they-thinking levels of bad. I'm honestly not sure what that was about.
 

Hound

Member
Jul 6, 2019
82
So a roughly one third excellent movie with the remaining two thirds being irredeamable cinematic dogshit, vs a movie that's consistently bad, but in a schlocky and entertaining kinda way? I honestly don't think I can decide.
 

Bor Gullet

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,830
Pick a scene in TLJ that’s is awful as the one shown in ROTS


I’ll wait
I loathe the "saving what we love" scene in TLJ.

That whole scene was laughable, and while it had good intentions, the execution was bad. Completely took me out from the film (which again I must stress, I like TLJ).
Please don't kill me Crossing Eden.
 

Lunar Wolf

Member
Nov 6, 2017
10,700
Los Angeles
Pick a scene in TLJ that’s is awful as the one shown in ROTS


I’ll wait


This whole scene. People literally groaned in my theatre.

Holdo performed a heroic sacrifice but Finn can't because Rose loves him?

That cringe-line about "saving what we love".

And the utter idiocy of crashing your vehicle into someone else's vehicle to save them.

How the hell did Finn even carry Rose back? They'd have been shot by those walkers. They have 0 cover.

In fact, both Finn and Rose should be dead.
 

Ooopsklo

Member
Aug 20, 2019
902


This whole scene. People literally groaned in my theatre.

Holdo performed a heroic sacrifice but Finn can't because Rose loves him?

That cringe-line about "saving what we love".

And the utter idiocy of crashing your vehicle into someone else's vehicle to save them.

How the hell did Finn even carry Rose back? They'd have been shot by those walkers. They have 0 cover.

In fact, both Finn and Rose should be dead.
Also space Leia
 

matrix-cat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,281
Notice how it's always the same bootleg gifs of one single shot of the TLJ fight being posted. They never want to bring up any other shots from the fight. I wonder why...









If you don't think this is the sickest shit, get out of my face. I don't want to hear about that stupid Youtube video where the guy just zooms in on dudes in the corners of the frame and complains that they aren't fighting like Prequel Jedi.
 

VaanXSnake

Member
Jul 18, 2018
1,070
ROTS is a way better movie than TLJ, that's for sure but TLJ is better than the rest of the prequels.
 

Slaythe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,644
Yes that's the bad choreography at play.

What the fuck is this for?
This is the only point in the fight where they both stop and it's because they keep blocking each other's strikes. That's a 2 seconds moment in the entire fight.

Afterwards they get frustrated and try something else.

Otherwise, even if Anakin flips a lot he always strikes.

 
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Psychoward

Member
Nov 7, 2017
24,392


This whole scene. People literally groaned in my theatre.

Holdo performed a heroic sacrifice but Finn can't because Rose loves him?

That cringe-line about "saving what we love".

And the utter idiocy of crashing your vehicle into someone else's vehicle to save them.

How the hell did Finn even carry Rose back? They'd have been shot by those walkers. They have 0 cover.

In fact, both Finn and Rose should be dead.
Yeah I loved TLJ but that shit was awful

However

Space Leia was great
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,173
I think you could make the point that the Jedi were, if not in their prime in the prequels, at least a continuous and ongoing organisation over thousands of years and so to emphasise that they emphasised a kind of "flow" to the combat they'd all have been trained in to some standardised degree, with more emphasis on use of the Force during a lightsaber duel. By comparison in TFA and TLJ you have barely trained kids hacking at each other. It gives the lightsaber combat a more physical feel and a visceral edge that the prequels are missing, but it's easy to see that a Jedi Knight from the prequels would wreck any of these kids and their wild wailing on each other.

As a result the duels in the prequels look a bit floaty and weird (except for the Qui-Gon & Obi-Wan Vs. Darth Maul fight, probably because they are pushing up against a larger object than your standard lightsaber) and the ones in TFA and TLJ don't, they look a bit more like the fights in the original trilogy, just updated a bit to be ever so slightly flashier. One definitely seems better to us than the other.

Of course you could say I'm just desperately seeking for an in-universe reason that doesn't exist to explain why the prequels duels (mostly) suck by comparison, but it's as valid a theory as any about anything in these films.
What your saying is straight up true and like.....well everything except for the soundtrack, it's done better in TCW. Like, I suppose that's the main argument that can be made against the prequels. The OT and the ST don't need a TCW style show.
This whole scene. People literally groaned in my theatre.

Holdo performed a heroic sacrifice but Finn can't because Rose loves him?
Holdo's sacrifice momentarily halted the first order, who immediately proceeded to launch another attack on the rebels. The reason Finn's sacrifice wouldn't have been good isn't because Rose loves Finn, it's because it would've accomplished a total of 🎃 and 💩

TLJ all day, will never understand the rise in some people loving the prequels
A defense mechanism to cope with the fact that the majority of people like the ST and that every one of their goalposts fell through from "Mark Hamill hates the film," (he doesn't), to "1.3 billion isn't enough money..." (one of the top grossing films of all time.)
 

Psychoward

Member
Nov 7, 2017
24,392
I see people praise this scene a lot when it's just an exposition dump coupled with Anakin acting like an idiot and never once questioning how a supposed politician knows such a story only to go

"HEY WHAT A MINUTE YOU'RE THE EVIL GUY?!!"

later in the film when Palpatine has to be even more obvious about being the big bad.
Yeah I think people are being revisionist about it because JJ said he liked it lol

It was always garbage
 

Slaythe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,644
I think 90 percent can agree AotC sucks ass compared to every other film in the series.

Even Solo .
It has more creativity and inspiration than several films. Being super bland on top of quality question is a problem imo. AOTC provides a unique adventure, at the very least.

Cross posting from the other thread.














 

watdaeff4

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,431
I loathe the "saving what we love" scene in TLJ.

That whole scene was laughable, and while it had good intentions, the execution was bad. Completely took me out from the film (which again I must stress, I like TLJ).
Please don't kill me Crossing Eden.


This whole scene. People literally groaned in my theatre.

Holdo performed a heroic sacrifice but Finn can't because Rose loves him?

That cringe-line about "saving what we love".

And the utter idiocy of crashing your vehicle into someone else's vehicle to save them.

How the hell did Finn even carry Rose back? They'd have been shot by those walkers. They have 0 cover.

In fact, both Finn and Rose should be dead.
Bad for sure but it didn’t burn a hole in my memory for how awful the whole “love is blind” sickness was

🤷‍♂️
 

Gambit

Member
Oct 27, 2017
683
Honestly, I think TLJ is a more competently made movie. It looks pretty good, even great in some scenes, has (mostly) very good acting and is generally well-directed.

Having said that all my complaints are on the level of the script and the central premise. I don't like the central story of being slowly chased by the First Order (or at least not how it was done), I don't like its weird structure where Crait feels tacked-on, I don't like how it fully resets the Galaxy (after TFA going half-way there already), I don't like how many of the characters develop, I don't like how small the whole film feels, I don't like how it and TFA together feel only like Act 1 of a Three Act story etc.

So I guess I value plot more than execution. Therefore ROTS, a great and expansive story, badly told.
 

TheHunter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,379
It has more creativity and inspiration than several films. Being super bland on top of quality question is a problem imo. AOTC provides a unique adventure, at the very least.

Cross posting from the other thread.














Yeah but those of you complaining about TLJ being a slog that's all AotC is.

A giant shit of a slog.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,173
Crossing Eden

You should have compared these two scenes. Both are excellent dialogue driven scenes.
One is an incredibly memeable exposition dump that expects the audience to buy the fact that the main character is an idiot.


The other reestablishes everything that we were supposed to know about the force while still working in line with the character's personalities and state of mind.
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,871
Yes that's the bad choreography at play.

What the fuck is this for?
At least they didn’t hit each other in the head. I’ll take silly stylistic flourish over incompetent choreography any day.
Notice how it's always the same bootleg gifs of one single shot of the TLJ fight being posted. They never want to bring up any other shots from the fight. I wonder why...









If you don't think this is the sickest shit, get out of my face. I don't want to hear about that stupid Youtube video where the guy just zooms in on dudes in the corners of the frame and complains that they aren't fighting like Prequel Jedi.
Because the whole scene is poorly plotted and choreographed but the group shot is the easiest one to point out how. You’re not going to impress me with a a 3 step sequence that they probably did 39 takes of to get right when there are longer, faster, and more complex sequences between Hayden and Ewan in ROTS that are legitimately more impressive.
 
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