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Rotten Tomatoes admits The Last Jedi was review bombed
- Thread starter Ryan.
- Start date
Pretty much yeah. Star Wars used to feel big and full of possibilities and wonder, even during the prequels. The sequel trilogy has made The Galaxy Far, Far Away feel small, cold and nihilistic. Never would have thought that I'd be disinterested in a new Star Wars movie, but Rey continue the perfect undefeatable hero vs a pathetic unthreatening villain is a premise that holds no appeal.
Not at all. How about you walk through how you arrived at any of these conclusions. I'm not arguing for those things I'm saying why your arguement is bad is there a third option I've missed? Can you like, follow the points being made, please? You've had this tactic of not actually responding to anything I've said.
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You know, I've always been a fan of his stuff for the longest. Always found him thoroughly entertaining and it was cool to see another black man with such a platform and charisma - I just enjoy watching his reactions and takes.
But recently, I mean... ugh - I don't know exactly what it is but it's kind of a thing I've noticed with a lot of the "reactors"/"reviewers" I like today.
He just made a video covering the whole Rotten Tomatoes thing and even though he said he's "neutral" on the situation I just really think he jumps the gun on things he doesn't really understand now. And going through the comments is almost like a cess-pool now of conspiracy theories and all kinds of mess. But i really also didn't understand his Captain Marvel review. I mean - his opinion and all, but whew, I couldn't even sit through it.
I think I'm just going to watch his reaction videos from now on because if this keeps up, I'm going to be a bit turned off, personally.
This is pretty much my ratings for all these movies...this is all accurate for me. It's also the 1st I heard of that site.
This! This is how I felt and i enjoyed the prequels, flaws included.
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Haha have you even watched the new movies? Kylo saves Rey straight up in TLJ. Then they are shown to be equal right after that. Kylo is stronger than Rey if you're paying attention he's just not focused while she is.
When people make stuff up about the new trilogy it's so odd to me. Like do you not pay attention or is it that you can't accept a female hero? Because the movies aren't anything off the beaten path of Star Wars at all.
When all else fails and you can't point to anything, just live in your own reality?
I don't think I'll be taking strategy points from you on this one
It was very disliked by a small majority and none of the evidence you presented suggests otherwise
Just saying that doesn't make it true, substantiate it. Your post is the equivalent of plugging your earns and shouting 'not listening!' over and over again. I even said 'this doesn't mean it was outright hated or terrible'.
'Very disliked by a small minority' is basically every movie out there, what exactly are you actually trying to say?
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Internet discourse over media is toxic and bad and stupid, but I find that the toxicity is stronger among hatebases than fanbases (although this is not always true).
In general though I find the idea that there is a large number of people who disliked TLJ to be an uncompelling argument. I won't deny that there is some divisiveness, but it's not even remotely akin to 50/50 from my observations.
In general though I find the idea that there is a large number of people who disliked TLJ to be an uncompelling argument. I won't deny that there is some divisiveness, but it's not even remotely akin to 50/50 from my observations.
Lul, this community did a poll about Metroid Other M and the result was positive despite the fact that the game bombed harder than your opinion of TLJ.
The sequel trilogy made The Galaxy feel small not the trilogy centered around a cast of like 4 characters nearly all related to one another.
That's kind hilarious, I expected a full throated defense of the garbo that was Attack of the Clones next.
Attack of the Clones forever tarnished the Star Wars franchise IMO. At that point a lot of people were saying "don't worry TPM was just a one off fluke, Lucas was rusty at writing/directing, was purposefully supposed to be a kids movie, no Jar Jar, don't worry Episode II will get it right, Star Wars will own Spider-Man (nope)". There was even laughable stuff like "the Anakin-Padme romance will bring in big box office like Titanic did!" (Laugh Out fucking Loud).
And yet AOTC was probably worse than TPM. That forever stripped Star Wars of any notion that it was some perfect franchise and firmly made the Lord of the Rings trilogy the defacto film trilogy event of the 2000s.
And the cinematography was shockingly bad too.
People harp on the ps2 like CG but that's like the good part of the movie.
I distinctly remember when AotC came out people initially thought it was a big step up from TPM because "no jar jar/kid anakin" and "at least it's not boring."
It took repeat viewings on home video before people realized how shit it was.
I was older but I remember that sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach about 20 minutes into the movie when I realized "holy shit ... this actually might be worse than The Phantom Menace". The whole tone of the movie was so damn cheesy.
It was at that point I kinda had to accept the whole notion of Star Wars being so much better than any other film property was pretty much over and done with. Lord of the Rings, Spider-Man, and The Matrix were the new kings.
The mother's death sequence was soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo shit.
I still remember joking about it seconds after watching that in the theatre.
Everything about it was so bad.
I was only 12 at the time but even I remember thinking "holy shit, guy who plays Anakin can't act at all"
Dear gawd at that "romance" .... lol, people actually thought before hand Episode II had a shot at beating Titanic because the romance would be so epic ... hahahahahaha. Data and the Borg Queen had more convincing romantic tension.
Mueller's foot and Manafort's ass have better chemistry!
That movie was sooooooooooo pointless, it achieved nothing important and basically left all the heavy lifting to the 3rd movie.
They could have done the lightspeed ram at the beginning of the chase. They could have done it with no one in the ship. It's a silly plot device because they could have done it at any time.
Not where it matters no. Finn was in the resistance at the beginning of the flick and is still in it at the end. Rey still doesn't know who her parents were and still doesn't learn much from Luke. They are all still on the run from the order. And it's all set behind a dumb backdrop of the "never ending space slowchase" which is the worst setting for SW I've ever seen. The characters would have mattered more if the brain dead plot werent just incessant. The fact that the villains pose zero threat to anyone also compounds this. Compared to the villains in TPM, the ones in TLJ are a fucking joke. Swolo is Meme-tier goofy and Snoke is useless and just sits there while he gets killed. Hux is a literal joke and not threatening to anyone. They just slow roll behind the convoy with an entire fleet when they could easily have sent some ships ahead to cut them off. That whole fleet is warp capable and they just keep the same pace behind the convoy the entire fucking film. It's a huge joke of a plot and I can't take any of the so-called "character development" is meaningless set against the backdrop of the slowchase to nowhere. The villains were not threatening and the plot stays the same and doesn't advance the whole time. The only really important character that dies is Luke and he fucking kills himself. There are no REAL consequences for people in TLJ, only fake ones that are later revealed to not have mattered.
I guess technically they could have evacuated personnel from the Raddus to the smaller ships and used it to ram the fleet, but one of the reasons why the ram maneuver is effective is because the FO is busy targeting the smaller ships making planet-fall. By the time they realize what Holdo is doing it was too late to mount an effective counter-attack. Also, consider that the ram doesn't neutralize the entire fleet, some ships remain (as we see later on Crait) and according to what Finn and Rose theorize about hyperspace tracking, taking out the Supremacy wouldn't have disabled the tracker so the FO would have still been able to track them. If the Resistance took your suggestion, they would have destroyed their flagship and wouldn't have been within reach of an uncharted hideout with fortifications and distress call capability.
Finn is physically "with" the Resistance in the beginning but he has no allegiance to them, only himself. He is actively fleeing, believes the ship is doomed and is only looking out for himself. He doesn't care about the cause. Well, he might believe in what they're doing but not enough to put his life on the line.
Rey learns a lot about herself in her experience with Luke and Kylo. She finds the strength to finally move on from the delusion that her parents weren't filthy junk traders who abandoned her. She gets emotional catharsis by confronting that painful truth and growing from it. She is no longer going to be held back by it. Luke teaches her an incredibly valuable lesson about the force, what it is, why its important and why it doesn't belong to the Jedi or a religious organization but to all living things, and if the jedi die out that does not mean that the light has died out. The light can come from another source.
Yes, the sarcastic battle droids who the Jedi cut through like paper in scene after scene were incredibly effective villains. Same for the Trade Federation leadership who are gullible, feckless pawns in Sidious' scheme. Darth Maul was a cool-looking villain who had a pretty neat lightsaber fight with Obi and Qui-Gon but The Phantom Menace as a movie has all the dramatic tension of a Saturday morning cartoon.
Hux just lost a Dreadnaught due to his hubris, lost Starkiller Base a few days before and just received a public dressing down by Snoke in front of his men. It makes sense to me that he would play this engagement out very conservatively and wait the Resistance out. They had them dead to rights and it really was just a matter of time.
The original trilogy focused on 4 people in a galaxy that felt much bigger than the movies, than the sequel trilogy comes and apparently The First Order is on the verge of controlling the galaxy despite having like a dozen Star Destroyers?
If I couldn't accept a female hero I sure as shit wouldn't be able to read the Star Wars Expanded Universe
The only thing that makes Rey special is that she's in a mainline movie, full stop.
How does targeting other ships make a ship more vulnerable to light-speed attack? Because they could attack the Raddus instead? Haven't they been attacking that ship the whole movie with no success because of the shields?
All you seem to care about is plot, while it's the story where it's at. I kind of get how you can think TPM is the better film with this reasoning. (You don't answer my question how the character's in TPM grow and evolve by the way. How they 'change their station in life'). Plotwise TLJ doesn't pose a big shift in the status quo. It is a second act, and it follows the structure for it quite faithfully. The character's face mounting oposition, until they reach a moment where all seems lost, but along the way they find the change needed to ultimately win in the third act (which will be IX). By your reasoning, nothing happens in Empire Strikes Back either. The Rebellion is still on the run by the end of that story too, and are on a surface level worse of than in the beginning.
Anyway, what you say about these character's is plain wrong. Finn isn't a resistance member at the beginning. First thing he wants is get the fuck out to get to Rey. That's the motivation he acts on. At the end, he is ready to sacrifice himself for the cause. That's a big change for a character, and it all comes from what he experiences troughout the story.
Rey has learned her parents are nobodies, something she seems to have known all along but supressed. That realisation forces a change. She can't trust on the past anymore, but has to act on her own. It's literaly the worst thing she can hear, because it's absolutely the oposite of what she wanted. That's great storytelling, because it puts a character trough the most possible internal conflict and forces her to act upon it. She learns a lot from Luke too, but not what she tought she would learn from him. He doesn't train her per sé, but he teaches her a lot about the nature of the Force. By being a reluctant teacher, he also forces her to act and forge her own path. Rey enters the movie as someone who seeks truth in the past and puts her trust in mentor figures (her parents/Luke), and goes out as someone who acts on her own and 'grows beyond' her master. That's a big change too.
You might not like the chase-plot, and that's fine. But it's just not true that this would in any way detract from the character development. The plot is only in service to the development of the characters. TLJ succeeds in challenging its main characters to force them to change. Their views are questioned (often by two oposing voices), they are constantly denied of what they want and seek and they are forced to make choices that reveal their character and/or change it. So yes, the Resistance is still on the Run, the FO is winning, but every main character ànd the villain have grown and changed. Those are big consequences. It change who they are. It seems like real conssequences for you are character's dying, but that's just superfluous. Qui-Gon's death in TPM is just meaningless. It's a character dying. It's a suprise twist, nothing more. It tells nothing. Luke sacrificing himself in the most Jedi way possible is him completing his arc in the movie from. He starts as someone who closed himself of from the force, to someone who becomes one with the Force to inspire the resistance. It's him excepting his role as a myth and inspiration. It actually tells us something about him, and what he learned troughout the story. That's a real consequence in my book.
Compared to TLJ, TPM is just a series of plot points. It's a movie characters enter and exit the same. The world around them changes somewhat, but they don't. It's just plot for plot, seting up later events. I mean, TPM even doesn't act on the few potentially interesting conflicts or plot points. Anakin is not allowed to be trained by the council, but in the end they just decide 'whatevs, you can train him because, eh, just because'. Wouldn't it be way more interesting if Obi Wan decides to go against the council? But no, by the end Jedi was suposed to be a Padawan, so the Council just changes opinion, without any motivation, without this change being the consequences of what characters learned during the story, without it being the result of conflicts and challenges forcing them to make decisions. It's pure plot dictating the choice, not the characters.
How the community feels about arandom video game has no baring on a random movie. What you just said is meaningless. What an outright terrible attempt at drawing a parallel.
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Was already canceled for me, gave Wonder Woman a C and likes MOS and BvS more, that weird men vs women debate in his TLJ review and now this.
Heh TLJ is just mediocre and nonsensical, while the prequels are legit terrible and incompetent. They barely work as movies. I found TLJ more interesting than TFA but both are movies that i watched once, was mildly entertained and have no desire whatsoever to watch again. Same with Rogue One actually. I guess that's my short review for all the sequels: completely forgettable. Which is a shame because i linda like Rey and Kylo as characters.
You don't need 5 complete arcs in one action fantasy film when the people having them run the gambit of alignment and place in the narrative. More isn't better. Most films have 1-3 complete arcs tops and are more focused and polished for it, which is where TLJ runs into issues (and being 4 acts). It's poorly plotted in part because it's trying to cram everything in, and the individual components and cohesion of the world suffer for it.
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I think they felt it a little silly to destroy their most valuable ship to take down a single ship. Like why would they have done that? It didn't stop the First Order, it just delayed them. Doing it at "any time" would have literally 100% guaranteed that everyone on the ship died.
They literally could have evacuated and done a light speed ram at any point in the chase prior to when they did. While we are on the subject, if a warp speed ship is such a damaging weapon, why don't they regularly use warp engine propelled weapons? It's all useless lasers and shit. But that's a bigger problem with Star Wars in general.
I wonder if the light speed ram could've worked on the Death Star. Maybe not destroyed it, but maybe damaged it enough so that Yavin could evacuate in time...
Consistency is not a thing the TLJ hate crowd cares about. They spend more time contradicting each other on what's "wrong" with the movie than they do contradicting people who liked it.
It remains the best film in the franchise, even if the fanboys can't see it clearly, but it will be widely recognized as such in 10-15 years. Just like Empire.
Yeah the plot holes in the movies sucked but honestly my biggest problem is they took Finn, my favorite character in The Force Awakens, second favorite character in all of Star Wars after Han, a character with so much potential to explore and managed to make me hate him and so unexcited for the character. His entire backstory minus the strange left field "Sanitation worker" part had a lot of potential. But he was relegated to a (terrible) B-plot, and he was so inconsequential and his character arc was essentially a rehash of TFA's arc for him....like Rian didn't know what to do with him.
Rey and Finn's interactions in the first 45 minutes of TFA were the most fun I've had watching a star wars movie.
I hope JJ can redeem his character. But I'm not even excited for the next film at all. And I watched TLJ's trailer over 10 times easily.
Everyone in my friend circle felt the same about this movie; it made them not excited to see how the trilogy ends. Yes the movie got review bombed/nuked by alt-right low lifes, but anecdotal evidence shows a lot of the reviews could have had valid subjective criticism.
Also can we stop using Cinemascore as a good indicator of quality? Venom got a B+ and Tyler Perry's new movie got an A-.
Rey and Finn's interactions in the first 45 minutes of TFA were the most fun I've had watching a star wars movie.
I hope JJ can redeem his character. But I'm not even excited for the next film at all. And I watched TLJ's trailer over 10 times easily.
Everyone in my friend circle felt the same about this movie; it made them not excited to see how the trilogy ends. Yes the movie got review bombed/nuked by alt-right low lifes, but anecdotal evidence shows a lot of the reviews could have had valid subjective criticism.
Also can we stop using Cinemascore as a good indicator of quality? Venom got a B+ and Tyler Perry's new movie got an A-.
How do these people who enjoyed a movie keep getting away with it? /s
1. If they evacuated they would have evacuated to more vulnerable, slower vehicles, and they were taking their time because they needed someplace they could reasonably evacuate to.
2. If I recall correctly, small crafts can't do damage from warping while large crafts can, which is a less cost-effective thing. The Resistance can't afford it.
I think the Holdo manuever was brilliant. It doesn't have any real foreshadowing, thus being a complete surprise to everyone involved. It works as a movie idea because Holdo is set up as an antagonist so the main characters have no way of learning about it, and it's part of that twist: not only was she right all along, she also had an idea that saved them all, which adds to the drama of her sacrifice. It wouldn't have worked if it was an established technique and it won't work again, because it's a game-changer. There will be similar technologies deployed and countermeasures deployed, but as a reliable strategy, no.
"Sir, permission requested to do a Holdo manuever."
"You mean to take a capital ship, which might I add is currently staffed by a thousand people and would need evacuating, and ram it into theirs, hoping they are arrogant and distracted enough to not simply shoot you out of the sky."
"Yes sir."
"You are demoted."
or
"Sir, sensors show that they are evacuating their capital ship, turning it around and powering up their hyperdrives. Do we continue focusing fire on the escape shuttles?"
"Hell no, target the capital ship and raise forward shields in case of shrapnel, then carry on firing on the shuttles once the capital ship is disposed of."
It's like the crane kick in Karate Kid. It's a stupid fucking move, it just caught Johnny by surprise because he had never seen it. It was specifically countered in II and wasn't a win button after all.
"Sir, permission requested to do a Holdo manuever."
"You mean to take a capital ship, which might I add is currently staffed by a thousand people and would need evacuating, and ram it into theirs, hoping they are arrogant and distracted enough to not simply shoot you out of the sky."
"Yes sir."
"You are demoted."
or
"Sir, sensors show that they are evacuating their capital ship, turning it around and powering up their hyperdrives. Do we continue focusing fire on the escape shuttles?"
"Hell no, target the capital ship and raise forward shields in case of shrapnel, then carry on firing on the shuttles once the capital ship is disposed of."
It's like the crane kick in Karate Kid. It's a stupid fucking move, it just caught Johnny by surprise because he had never seen it. It was specifically countered in II and wasn't a win button after all.
Is that from a book or comic? I don't remember any moment in the movie where they talk about hyperspace collisions. In any case they can write any explanation whenever they want, for example the Death Stars where eventually explained as the only way to break big planet wide shields.
People use it to disprove the notion that TLJs diviciveness is mainstream and not a vocal minority online.
If you want to talk actual film quality though, most professional critics were very positive about it too.
Wasn't the ship they destroyed the one with the tracking device? They could have taken it out and then warped homefree with abandon.