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Kaswa101

Member
Oct 28, 2017
17,748
I'm not a Star Wars fan but TLJ wasn't great imo. Wasn't terrible either though. But that whole fuel subplot with the captain hiding her plans was just dumb, as was the entire casino planet and Rose's decision at the end. Even the codebreaker and prison stuff was just hilariously bad.

Everything with Kylo, Rey and Luke were fine to me though, personally, although I never actually watched all the original films lol.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,956
Wasn't the ship they destroyed the one with the tracking device? They could have taken it out and then warped homefree with abandon.

Because they didn't discover this fact until later, and by then it was incredibly costly to be throwing away their lead ship and potentially risking everyone.

I'm not a Star Wars fan but TLJ wasn't great imo. Wasn't terrible either though. But that whole fuel subplot with the captain hiding her plans was just dumb, as was the entire casino planet and Rose's decision at the end. Even the codebreaker and prison stuff was just hilariously bad.

Everything with Kylo, Rey and Luke were fine to me though, personally, although I never actually watched all the original films lol.

The whole thing about Holdo not revealing her plan to Poe is a little silly. He's a reckless idiot, why should he be let in on the plan? What if that plan got out? What if someone on the ship was a double agent?
 

Clefargle

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,124
Limburg
Because they didn't discover this fact until later, and by then it was incredibly costly to be throwing away their lead ship and potentially risking everyone.

Wait, wasn't the trip to Canto Bight specifically to ultimately disable the tracker? If they had just done the holdo maneuver or whatever, they could have escaped.
 

ProtomanNeo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,190
I think the Holdo manuever was brilliant. It doesn't have any real foreshadowing, thus being a complete surprise to everyone involved. It works as a movie idea because Holdo is set up as an antagonist so the main characters have no way of learning about it, and it's part of that twist: not only was she right all along, she also had an idea that saved them all, which adds to the drama of her sacrifice. It wouldn't have worked if it was an established technique and it won't work again, because it's a game-changer. There will be similar technologies deployed and countermeasures deployed, but as a reliable strategy, no.

"Sir, permission requested to do a Holdo manuever."
"You mean to take a capital ship, which might I add is currently staffed by a thousand people and would need evacuating, and ram it into theirs, hoping they are arrogant and distracted enough to not simply shoot you out of the sky."
"Yes sir."
"You are demoted."

or

"Sir, sensors show that they are evacuating their capital ship, turning it around and powering up their hyperdrives. Do we continue focusing fire on the escape shuttles?"
"Hell no, target the capital ship and raise forward shields in case of shrapnel, then carry on firing on the shuttles once the capital ship is disposed of."

It's like the crane kick in Karate Kid. It's a stupid fucking move, it just caught Johnny by surprise because he had never seen it. It was specifically countered in II and wasn't a win button after all.
Not quite. The crane kick didn't work because Chosen feigned his attack forcing Daniel to kick early.
 

Eila

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,942
Haha, I just watched both episodes of the new trilogy, and the haters weren't kididing. Didn't care much for star wars before it, so I found enjoyment in both as flicks, but what a mess TLJ was.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,956
Wait, wasn't the trip to Canto Bight specifically to ultimately disable the tracker? If they had just done the holdo maneuver or whatever, they could have escaped.

By a few people, yes, but this wasn't a trip made because Holdo or anyone else ordered it, it was Poe, Finn, and Rose leaving against orders to figure this out.

Haha, I just watched both episodes of the new trilogy, and the haters weren't kididing. Didn't care much for star wars before it, so I found enjoyment in both as flicks, but what a mess TLJ was.

What did you take issue with?
 

Clefargle

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,124
Limburg
By a few people, yes, but this wasn't a trip made because Holdo or anyone else ordered it, it was Poe, Finn, and Rose leaving against orders to figure this out.

But did Holdo know about the tracker? Because if so, she's super incompetent to not do the maneuver to destroy it and save many lives before ships started being destroyed. Finn and the gang are dumb for running off to Canto but the leadership of the rebels could have ordered the maneuver be done to disable the tracking by targeting a single ship. The whole extended chase scene is hilarious considering how many ways both sides could have ended it. The rebels could have performed the holdo maneuver earlier and escaped. The FO could have split their fleet up and warped half ahead to cut them off. It defies logic and it's not even a good setpeice considering how many times we see them continually running away while the FO lazily trundles along behind lobbing shots intermittently. It's just so boring.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,956
But did Holdo know about the tracker? Because if so, she's super incompetent to not do the maneuver to destroy it and save many lives before ships started being destroyed. Finn and the gang are dumb for running off to Canto but the leadership of the rebels could have ordered the maneuver be done to disable the tracking by targeting a single ship. The whole extended chase scene is hilarious considering how many ways both sides could have ended it. The rebels could have performed the holdo maneuver earlier and escaped. The FO could have split their fleet up and warped half ahead to cut them off. It defies logic and it's not even a good setpeice considering how many times we see them continually running away while the FO lazily trundles along behind lobbing shots intermittently. It's just so boring.

I do not believe that Holdo knew about the tracker, no.

Also, yes, FO could have done that, but they didn't, because they didn't think it necessary. They're a powerful, arrogant military. It's a part of their character.

Also also, they couldn't have performed the Holdo maneuver because the Resistance was trying to get to a safe area to evacuate people. I don't know why you think that the last capital ship they have being destroyed is a good idea for them. If they tried the maneuver sooner, the FO would have just caught up to the escape pods and destroyed them. It was the timing of the move that made it work, not the move itself. The notion that they should have done it sooner is itself super illogical.
 

Clefargle

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,124
Limburg
I do not believe that Holdo knew about the tracker, no.

Also, yes, FO could have done that, but they didn't, because they didn't think it necessary. They're a powerful, arrogant military. It's a part of their character.

Also also, they couldn't have performed the Holdo maneuver because the Resistance was trying to get to a safe area to evacuate people. I don't know why you think that the last capital ship they have being destroyed is a good idea for them. If they tried the maneuver sooner, the FO would have just caught up to the escape pods and destroyed them. It was the timing of the move that made it work, not the move itself. The notion that they should have done it sooner is itself super illogical.

I will go back and look tomorrow and see exactly who knew/ didn't know about the tracker when. But to your second point, didn't they have other warp capable ships that were destroyed due to Poe/Finn? Those ships could have warped and carried the others to safety while the holdo maneuver is performed. You wouldn't need the pods.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,956
I will go back and look tomorrow and see exactly who knew/ didn't know about the tracker when. But to your second point, didn't they have other warp capable ships that were destroyed due to Poe/Finn? Those ships could have warped and carried the others to safety while the holdo maneuver is performed. You wouldn't need the pods.

The point stands for smaller ships as well. The Holdo maneuver is one taken as a last resort, logically. The idea of gambling on being able to get away from a pursuing fleet of vehicles is not at all logical.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,812
How the community feels about arandom video game has no baring on a random movie. What you just said is meaningless. What an outright terrible attempt at drawing a parallel.
My point is polls on this website means little and less.
You could make a poll about pinapple pizza and that still wouldn't mean shit.

The original trilogy focused on 4 people in a galaxy that felt much bigger than the movies, than the sequel trilogy comes and apparently The First Order is on the verge of controlling the galaxy despite having like a dozen Star Destroyers?
And I was talking about the prequel trilogy that basically did all everyone claims the sequel trilogy did about making the lore totally uninteresting.
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
My point is polls on this website means little and less.
You could make a poll about pinapple pizza and that still wouldn't mean shit.

Yeah, that's not true and you know that. They are reflective of Era, just not 'voiced discourse' Era. An even more recent example would be the Catherine Full Body debacle.

I get wanting to downplay the Era poll for your benefit but no, it's reflective of Era.
 

plié

Alt account
Banned
Jan 10, 2019
1,613
Remove. User. Reviews.

Angry nerds are the planets most vindictive beings. TLJ is a great movie, and a even better Star Wars movie.
 

spootime

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,431
My point is polls on this website means little and less.
You could make a poll about pinapple pizza and that still wouldn't mean shit.

It demonstrates that it's not a "tiny minority" of people who dislike TLJ.

And I was talking about the prequel trilogy that basically did all everyone claims the sequel trilogy did about making the lore totally uninteresting.

The clone wars serves as a perfect backdrop to tell tons of interesting stories in. If there is one redeeming quality of the prequel trilogy its that. We got to see so many unique planets, alien races, factions, and cultures across the prequel trilogy, and they all led to interesting stories being told down the line.

I mean think about it - Coruscant, Tatooine, Kashyyk, Geonosis, Kamino, Mustafar... All of those planets go on to be used in books, videogames, tv shows, comics, etc (I know tatooine was there before but podracing is enough of an addition by itself).

That's probably my biggest complaint about the sequels. What are you going to tell any stories about? Jakku is Tatooine 0.5. Whatever planet Maz is on is just a generic castle in a forest. We see Crait for like... ten seconds. I guess if we need another hamfisted wealth inequality metaphor we could go back to rich person island?
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,812
Yeah, that's not true and you know that. They are reflective of Era, just not 'voiced discourse' Era. An even more recent example would be the Catherine Full Body debacle.

I get wanting to downplay the Era poll for your benefit but no, it's reflective of Era.
Nah, it's only reflective of people who would interact in an online poll.
heck to show how meaningful they are, there's usually a "Thor 2 : the dark world" option which does significant numbers.
You're arguing like a poll on twitter means anything at all.
And even in the grand scheme of things even if it meant anything about ERA, ERA is so niche it means nothing at all because the community is actually rather small.
It demonstrates that it's not a "tiny minority" of people who dislike TLJ.

We ARE a minority.
ERA liking or hating a game or a movie doesn't mean anything about the market at all.
The world is much bigger than ERA if you would know.
 

MagicHobo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,601
I will go back and look tomorrow and see exactly who knew/ didn't know about the tracker when. But to your second point, didn't they have other warp capable ships that were destroyed due to Poe/Finn? Those ships could have warped and carried the others to safety while the holdo maneuver is performed. You wouldn't need the pods.
Here's something I think you might be forgetting: the Holdo maneuver didn't completely obliterate The Supremacy. Kylo had time to escape, Hux had time to escape, Snoke would have survived. There is nothing to say that the tracker wouldn't have remained intact as well and couldn't have tracked their final jump.

Plus none of that even matters because you are also forgetting the line they say as to why they can't just destroy the big ship, which was explicitly brought up in the dialogue: "I like where your head's at, but no, they'll only start tracking us from another destroyer ." Their plan wasn't to disable it completely, but to fool it for a single cycle (six minutes) so the good guys could jump away before the bad guys figured it out. If they destroyed it outright, the bad guys would be clued in and move the tracker to a different ship (you'll just have to accept it's only used on one ship at a time, I assume it's because it's a top secret experimental technology and would only transferred from it's secure location as a fail safe and/or because it requires enormous resources to maintain). It doesn't matter who knew what when, the only way to make it work per the film was to sneak in. This is all explicitly stated in the film.

And the good guys were low on fuel and only had enough for one jump. So if they jumped with only their little ships left, then some of the other Star Destroyers that weren't destroyed would have followed them and finished the job. It would have been a colossally stupid move.

They also came up with a technobabble explanation as to why only the Raddus could cut through The Supremacy while other smaller ships would go splat, which is that it has a fancy experimental shield. It's not stated in the film, this detail is taken from sources like the novelization, but said shield is present and visible in the film. You don't have to be satisfied by the explanation, of course, but I personally didn't even need it. The film did plenty of work on it's own to suggest it was a hail mary last resort.
 
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Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
Nah, it's only reflective of people who would interact in an online poll.
heck to show how meaningful they are, there's usually a "Thor 2 : the dark world" option which does significant numbers.
You're arguing like a poll on twitter means anything at all.
And even in the grand scheme of things even if it meant anything about ERA, ERA is so niche it means nothing at all because the community is actually rather small.


We ARE a minority.
ERA liking or hating a game or a movie doesn't mean anything about the market at all.
The world is much bigger than ERA if you would know.

Era is notably one of the more pro TLJ hubs and even if, when put to a vote/not simply looking at the loudest voices in the room, is pretty split on the film. I have a feeling that endless places in real life and online could be cited and polled and you'd default to the same arguement.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,812
Era is notably one of the more pro TLJ hubs and even if, when put to a vote/not simply looking at the loudest voices in the room, is pretty split on the film.
gc56gq3f_400x400.jpg
 

Window

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,284
I'd be curious to know the origin of these troll votes. Is it mostly an American phenomenon?
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,812
I'd be curious to know the origin of these troll votes. Is it mostly an American phenomenon?
I've seen people from Brazil blame George fucking Soros for being a commie so really all bets are off in that regard.
If you told me that a significant portion of the votes came from people in Guinea Bissau having a grudge, I would believe you.