They should have admitted much earlier about the review bombing campaigns but it's clear why the first MCU movie led by a woman has gained that attention from everyone and RT.
(Also just seen CM and enjoyed it :)
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Rotten Tomatoes admits The Last Jedi was review bombed
- Thread starter Ryan.
- Start date
(Also just seen CM and enjoyed it :)
What makes matters far worse in this case is RT effectively either lied or passed along misinformation. They said before that TLJ was not impacted by this kind of activity and that the reviews weren't any different from other user reviews.
Now they drop a stealth bombshell (attached to the news about Cap Marvel) in hopes that people wouldn't notice that TLJ was impacted by the same tactics used for this film, instead of just announcing that they fucked up.
Just really shady overall.
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because it was going to be even worse for Captain Marvel since she is literally a feminist icon being played by a woman reviled by the alt right. just go to gaf and see how much they hate her.
Do you work for RT ?
A films consensus should not be made from good or bad based on average of 230 reviews. It should be more nuanced
Note: rottentomatoes twitter account has blocked me on twitter when I went on a mini crusade against them for mucking up film industry with terrible method of finding which films were good or bad
Annihilation is a near all-female cast and was universally praised and not review bombed.
Exactly they can pass it off as a freak occurance once, but now it is a pattern. Everybody knew they were lying
Annihilation is also not one of the biggest blockbuster movies of the year.
No shade to Annihilation but it almost didn't release and when it did a shorten theater time and on to netflix. Hardly the peak of pop culture all these other movies are
This thread is about Rotten Tomatoes finally admitting a movie was wrongfully review bombed. My statement pertained to that. Good try though.
Why don't you actually try reading the reviews then if you want
Movie that only made 43 million does not get as much attention as the first MCU film with where the main lead is a woman. Sorry, can't birdbox this one.
You're saying their timing is suspicious. It's literally the release day of the film and over 50k users review bombed the site. You keep ignoring the bolded when you state the underlined.
yes that is tinfoil hat level nonsense
RT is a arm of Disney's biggest rvials
It's a movie that doesn't even have a main character. To say it needed a re-write would be an understatement.
Shiny ships and lightsabers don't make a good movie.
True.
Star wars is well known to have a... "passionate" fan base. Same could be said for Ghostbusters.
Maybe I'm completely off base and I'm aware that misogyny is a part of it, I just don't think it's some kind of major factor in these films getting shit on. If the prequels came out today people would hate them and review bomb them but it wouldn't be considered some kind of agenda by rampant sexists.
People like films with female leads and heavy female casts. It just seems to be the nerdy films with a partially insane fanbase that get these issues, and I'm inclined to believe it's the insane people that don't like their franchise deviating from any direction they don't like, not just female oriented stuff.
Wonder Woman?
That's the point. Almost everyone doesn't read reviews fully anymore. They see the score to judge good or bad. That's how RT OPERATES. It gives you a number. It publishes a number and that is their entire business, RT score. The reviews in the middle part of review score page are just not as important to many who gauge movie quality and by RT itself
You realize this whole review bombing thing started with The Last Jedi, right? Also, people were salty as fuck about Wonder Woman, too.
Y'all remember all the dudes throwing a fit because of that women's only showing?
Really, I've no idea why you're trying to play dumb about the reason TLJ and Captain Marvel was review bombed.
I didn't like The Last Jedi. Me. Not because of what I read or some other derogatory nonsense. I watched it opening day and didn't like it. Simple.
Question have you actually read the "reviews" in question? And what they talk about in particular. And what they're angered by? And who they're specifically harassing and targeting?
Ok, that doesn't mean that it was a divisive film.
That's on people not the website when said website allows you to look at the nuance and more detailed reviews. It's an aggregate website.
It is really hard for me to believe that a movie that makes over a billion dollars is that divisive. To get over billion dollar mark you need people to watch the movie multiple times. Also I doubt TLJ (my favorite SW movie now) would've made as much money as TFA even if it was considered "good;" TFA was a perfect storm.
It's also a niche art film whose main lead didn't attract the ire of neckbeards the world over due to outspokenly feminist comments.
I mean.. people did like it lol. That's one of the big takeaways here.. people used these scores as a false narrative to show that the hatred/dislike was representative of general audiences.. when it turns out most people enjoyed it. That doesn't mean no one disliked or hated it in general audiences, it's just more evidence that people who think most disliked or hated the film are living in a bubble.
But none of this removes the genuine criticism people have. I've got plenty of my own.
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All it takes is one person to make a Star Wars controversial thread on any given forum. That isn't indicative of anything when defenders and attackers follow the bat signal of a thread title on their forum of choice while they're trying to do anything but their work or pay attention in class. Which I'm writing as I ignore my work.
Discourse just went to shit when social media blurred the lines between life and the internet enough that we all started taking fake internet comments seriously enough to sway elections, affect corporations and governments, and so on. It can be used to force those centers of power to be better, but we don't have any protections against bad people forcing them to be worse.
Discourse just went to shit when social media blurred the lines between life and the internet enough that we all started taking fake internet comments seriously enough to sway elections, affect corporations and governments, and so on. It can be used to force those centers of power to be better, but we don't have any protections against bad people forcing them to be worse.
This assumes that most people that watched it decided to rate it on rotten tomatoes. My assumption is that more people that hated it would have gone out of there way to do so.
Outside of Rotten Tomatoes, it's a pretty damn divisive film.
It doesn't take a number to see that, and I'd argue obsessing over that number so much is a big part of this whole debacle.
Like the whole thing is just "more people liked it so I am right" vs "more people hated it so I am right"
Wait. TLJ was review bombed on Rotten Tomatoes? I'm shocked! Shocked!!
Sure it's a divisive film, but even without the knowledge it was review bombed RT user scores (nor critical consensus) is never really an argument for or against a movie. If you love or hate a movie, you should be able to argue why based on the context or artistry of the movie. If you need to drag RT into a discussion, it's mainly for self-confirmation purposes.
Look I kind of like TPM as it was thé Star Wars movie when I was a kid. And I still enjoy it for what it is today. But I have to challenge you on your comparisons :P
The battles were well choreographed, but are ultimately very empty in the prequels. The whole dual of the fates sequence has no story to it. It's jedi's dancing with a Sith. Only at the end, when Qui-Gon dies and Obi Wan goes apeshit you actually get some resemblance of a story, with a character developing. Both the throne room and Luke vs Kylo have actual storytelling with the action, and for that alone they are way more interesting. TPM's battles are a choreography. TLJ's are a story.
Same goes for the Casino scene compared to the pod race. The pod race is 20 minutes that ultimately serve one plot beat: Anakin being free. It has no story. It tells us exactly what we were told before: Anakin is great at podracing. 20 minutes to just move a bit of plot, without moving the story. Anakin learns shit in the podrace. He doesn't set a single step forward as a character in it. It's 20 minutes of cool action, but ultimately it's a 'random diversion'.
The casino scene actually has a story. It is a an essential part in the character arc of Finn, giving him a new perspective and shaking the beliefs he held up until then. Beliefs that are tested and challenged troughout his subplot by Rose on the one hand, and DJ on the other. It's how he reacts to what he learns and sees in Canto Bight, that show us who he is and who he becomes.
Plotwise it leads to failure, but that isn't the same as being a random diversionat all, as it servers character growth. I would also argue that -unlike what many TLJ critics say- it does advance the plot , as the events in Canto Bight ultimately lead into the FO discovering Holdo's plan.
Sure it's a divisive film, but even without the knowledge it was review bombed RT user scores (nor critical consensus) is never really an argument for or against a movie. If you love or hate a movie, you should be able to argue why based on the context or artistry of the movie. If you need to drag RT into a discussion, it's mainly for self-confirmation purposes.
Look I kind of like TPM as it was thé Star Wars movie when I was a kid. And I still enjoy it for what it is today. But I have to challenge you on your comparisons :P
The battles were well choreographed, but are ultimately very empty in the prequels. The whole dual of the fates sequence has no story to it. It's jedi's dancing with a Sith. Only at the end, when Qui-Gon dies and Obi Wan goes apeshit you actually get some resemblance of a story, with a character developing. Both the throne room and Luke vs Kylo have actual storytelling with the action, and for that alone they are way more interesting. TPM's battles are a choreography. TLJ's are a story.
Same goes for the Casino scene compared to the pod race. The pod race is 20 minutes that ultimately serve one plot beat: Anakin being free. It has no story. It tells us exactly what we were told before: Anakin is great at podracing. 20 minutes to just move a bit of plot, without moving the story. Anakin learns shit in the podrace. He doesn't set a single step forward as a character in it. It's 20 minutes of cool action, but ultimately it's a 'random diversion'.
The casino scene actually has a story. It is a an essential part in the character arc of Finn, giving him a new perspective and shaking the beliefs he held up until then. Beliefs that are tested and challenged troughout his subplot by Rose on the one hand, and DJ on the other. It's how he reacts to what he learns and sees in Canto Bight, that show us who he is and who he becomes.
Plotwise it leads to failure, but that isn't the same as being a random diversionat all, as it servers character growth. I would also argue that -unlike what many TLJ critics say- it does advance the plot , as the events in Canto Bight ultimately lead into the FO discovering Holdo's plan.
Like there's no universe where TLJ could've made more money than TFA but that didn't stop discussion on Era and elsewhere from being completely ass.
It's really not. We literally have no metric for this, and tons of evidence to the contrary.
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I can't possibly fathom how you could think "The Last Jedi is a very agreeable film that everyone is on the same page on".
Well they were all psychics then, cause the movie was actually god awful. So they ended up being right.
Yep. Worse than the prequels.
Anecdotal bullshit incoming: Worked at a tech company with about 40 people when TLJ launched. I think we had like 90% Star Wars nerds there, and at lunch there was about a week stretch of discussing the movie. There were two people hating it intensely, around 5 people who would argue it was good (me included), and then the rest seemed to be like "was alright".
The online vs rl reactions on this movie are mind blowing for me. And outside the incel bullshit campaigns, I still don't understand why the hell it is necessary to scream at a movie online 1,5 years after its release.
I loved it, got the 4K disc, and then moved the fuck on.
The online vs rl reactions on this movie are mind blowing for me. And outside the incel bullshit campaigns, I still don't understand why the hell it is necessary to scream at a movie online 1,5 years after its release.
I loved it, got the 4K disc, and then moved the fuck on.
That is what I said, I do not think that it could've reached TFA's box office because it was perfect storm of circumstance ( no star wars movie for a decade, the trailers were good, it was a nostalgia bomb).
Iron Man 3 made 1.2Billion and I'm not alone in calling it trash.
Solo tells us what we need to know. Star Wars movies don't bomb, none of them till Solo did. Was Solo a hard sell even to the hardcore SW fan? Yes. It was just too soon after The Last Jedi left a number of cold and uninspired. Sometimes, not everytime but sometimes you just have to take people at thier word.
I have much Hope that not only will 9 be a great movie but it might help me purge the hate I had for 8.
It was obvious but people who looked for ways to shit on TLJ would still refer to the RT user score and say it was legit because RT said it was (despite that being obvious PR bullshit)
Canto Bight doesn't advance the plot. The crews in the escaping ships are still running when they get back. And the traitor they brought along as a "space hacker" didn't do anything but lando their asses. Then they have the same problem as the beginning of the film: they are still running from Ben Swolo. It's the same situation at the end, despite Luke's sacrifice, they're still running from the Order. Canto Bight, the ESB-esque siege, the slowchase through space. They're all terrible pacing and make zero sense. TPM has its problems, but it's telling a story that has consequences and the characters change their station in life or die along the way. In TLJ they just keep running at sub light speed while an entire fleet of superior ships capable of warp speed slow rolls behind them incessantly. That's ultimately what broke any significance the narrative might have held to me. Because the premise is so contrived and the villains are so inept to the point of being painful.
I doubt it, the least popular parts of TLJ didn't came out after people watched the movie.
I don't remember some people made up their mind to shit on the movie before it came out. It was not like Lucasfillm perminantly display Rose Tico on the trailer on something. Also TLJ was "disliked" in the ways that was very different from TFA.
I don't remember some people made up their mind to shit on the movie before it came out. It was not like Lucasfillm perminantly display Rose Tico on the trailer on something. Also TLJ was "disliked" in the ways that was very different from TFA.
Divisive films don't make a billion and then go on to be the top selling bluray of the year.
Solo's marketing was near CONSTANTLY filled with news stories about it's production issues and that says nothing about the trailers themselves not being very compelling.
I was agreeing with you.
Canto Bight not only advances Finn as a character but them meeting DJ literally resulted in a climax that would've been drastically different. It doesn't advance the plot in a positive way. As in it has drastic consequences for the protagonists. Without Canto Bight, you don't get Finn's development, and you don't get a climax to the film. How disingenuous of you.
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Sorry the Lie part threw me off maybe you meant Like.
Yeah it made 1.2 billion and I am not alone in calling it good.
also, Solo was a movie "nobody wanted" where every piece of news that came out it was how troubled the production was.
AND STILL it made almost 400millions
Batman V Superman made $873m and was the No. 6 selling blu ray for 2016.
You can be popular, and also divisive. How are people supposed to hate a movie they haven't seen?
Before RT admitted TLJ was review bombed: See, people hated the film because it's dogshit!
After RT admitted TLJ was review bombed: See, these sheeple just like eveything even when it's dogshit!
Some we've always been at war with Eastasia shit.
After RT admitted TLJ was review bombed: See, these sheeple just like eveything even when it's dogshit!
Some we've always been at war with Eastasia shit.