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RPGamer's RPGs Top 50 RPGs of the Decade
- Thread starter werezompire
- Start date
Lol at the hate for dq (doesn't do anything new generic rpg) but the site has constant hard ons for generic over the shoulder cinematic action games
Dq11 is fucking love
Dq11 is fucking love
Odyssey is most definitely an RPG. You have a leveling system with abilities to unlock using points, dialogue systems in the main and side quests, gear you need to equip and keep up to date, enemy levels etc. It's more of an RPG than a lot of RPG's these days honestly.
This site goes back and forth, seen lots of love for it here too. Just lots of vitriol in general in this topic.
I'm so torn on DQX1. I want to play it, I've never played a DQ game before but the additions to the Switch versions seem awesome... I just don't want to play it on Switch. I'll probably buckle and get it some day.
Lists are subjective, but I'm still surprised Horizon Zero Dawn made it that far up the list. Solid game, just seemed like it would be in the same tier as AC: Odyssey on an RPG centric-site, if at all.
Poor Divinity: Original Sin 2 though, the lone CRPG, and it still gets beat by Fallout 4. At least it's above the Atelier games though.
Poor Divinity: Original Sin 2 though, the lone CRPG, and it still gets beat by Fallout 4. At least it's above the Atelier games though.
Why would this matter? FF7R came out this year and last decade was 2010 - 2019.
I never take lists seriously. They are, after all, entirely subjective opinion. This is probably the first time I legit feel like "lol, nah". I've had many instances of straight up hating games that were universally acclaimed, but could always get why other people loved it, what the redeeming qualities were. But DQ 11... I've given it like 3 tries. It's my first DQ. And everything about this game just puts me off so much. Boring everything, cliche everything. Cool, I guess, that people love it. But I'd never watch another video or read another article by a person who rated DQ 11 number, freaking, one RPG of all time. Being in the list, sure. Even close to the top. But number one? The pinnacle of RPG everything? Story, writing, world, gameplay, characters? For real? Cool-cool-cool.
The nature of video games and the necessity of some structure makes it fundamentally different than tabletop games. The mechanics are just an abstraction of character growth, though personally I don't know what it feels like to play a tabletop game with no mechanics for character growth. Seems like to would feel more like performance than game but who knows?
I've only played 9 games in the list (and 2 of them aren't RPGs - Z:LA and Z:LBW) - but of the other 7 they've got them in roughly the right order.
Would have loved for Dragon's Dogma to have made Top 10 - I'm just going to imagine that it came in at 11.
Also glad to see Child of Light get some love. I really hope Ubi make a sequel or spiritual successor.
My list FYI:
1. Breath of the Wild
2. Xenoblade
3. Dragon's Dogma
4. Xenoblade 2
5. Octopath
6. Child of Light
7. Tokyo Mirage Sessions
Would have loved for Dragon's Dogma to have made Top 10 - I'm just going to imagine that it came in at 11.
Also glad to see Child of Light get some love. I really hope Ubi make a sequel or spiritual successor.
My list FYI:
1. Breath of the Wild
2. Xenoblade
3. Dragon's Dogma
4. Xenoblade 2
5. Octopath
6. Child of Light
7. Tokyo Mirage Sessions
I don't know that I would have put DQ11 that high, but it deserves it's top ten slot for sure. It's a fantastic game.
I also would have placed XB2 in the top tan somewhere and put XB1 at number 11.
As for P5, I'll keep that to myself, cause I'm biased. :3
Breath of the Wild is a top tier game, but I'm not sure that it belongs on that list.
I also would have placed XB2 in the top tan somewhere and put XB1 at number 11.
As for P5, I'll keep that to myself, cause I'm biased. :3
Breath of the Wild is a top tier game, but I'm not sure that it belongs on that list.
Why is a fucking gliding simulator at number 2? List kinda invalidates itself with that inclusion.
It seems like that is where our opinions differ. Your criteria for RPG seems to be that it is good and while I personally think Assassin's Creed Odyssey is just okay, that doesn't make it any less of an RPG than anything else that is mediocre within the genre.
I'm not necessarily saying it's bad, it's just redundant. It's shoe-horned in for the sake of it.
Yeah I know some people think that and I have no problem with people's opinions but to me, the features being shoe-horned or even the quality of them has nothing to do with the genre.
If there is a leveling system, stats, story choices, gear then it is without a doubt an RPG to me and I had no idea that some people felt differently.
Odyssey is more of an RPG than some of the other games on the list though so idk
No Etrian Odyssey games on the list at all :(
Glad to see Tokyo Mirage Sessions and the Xenoblade games on the list, and XB1 in the top 5 too.
Glad to see Tokyo Mirage Sessions and the Xenoblade games on the list, and XB1 in the top 5 too.
While a lot of videogame genres have pretty loose definitions its always vaguely amusing to see the pure ire trying to define what a "RPG" is brings out in people.
It was more specifically the levelling system part of it, there have been, nearly since the hobbies inception, RPG's with no levels. Though over the last decade or two theres been a big surge in games where there is no mechanical growth at all e.g. FATE and it's myriad derivatives. Based on the narrative there might not even be actual character growth either. Though that's tangential at best.
While I appreciate the difference in mediums I'd actually say that there are very few computer based RPG's that feel fundamentally different from tabletop RPG's especially when it comes to the mechanical level. In fact I think you could convincingly argue that a rater slavish devotion to transferring the mechanical trappings of tabletop games to the computer has held back the evolution of what computer based RPG's could be. Though that argument would perhaps disregard the fact that people, myself included, enjoy them for what they are now.
It smacks a bit of intellectual dishonesty to present your personal opinion as the only rational choice.
I initially mis-read the title as RPGCodex not RPGGamer, so I was near dumbstruck when I first saw the top ten ;)
It was more specifically the levelling system part of it, there have been, nearly since the hobbies inception, RPG's with no levels. Though over the last decade or two theres been a big surge in games where there is no mechanical growth at all e.g. FATE and it's myriad derivatives. Based on the narrative there might not even be actual character growth either. Though that's tangential at best.
While I appreciate the difference in mediums I'd actually say that there are very few computer based RPG's that feel fundamentally different from tabletop RPG's especially when it comes to the mechanical level. In fact I think you could convincingly argue that a rater slavish devotion to transferring the mechanical trappings of tabletop games to the computer has held back the evolution of what computer based RPG's could be. Though that argument would perhaps disregard the fact that people, myself included, enjoy them for what they are now.
It smacks a bit of intellectual dishonesty to present your personal opinion as the only rational choice.
I initially mis-read the title as RPGCodex not RPGGamer, so I was near dumbstruck when I first saw the top ten ;)
I haven't played anything of those games so I can't really comment, but I do appreciate hearing your perspective.
The list is for the last decade, not all time.
More importantly, as you already know the list is subjective. DQXI got a metacritic of 86 (and userscore of 87). Not the highest but definitely not a bad score, which means there are plenty of people who enjoyed it and appreciated what it brings to the table. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean others won't. I think placement is rather arbitrary anyway, because the games are designed to have different appeal, it's hard to compare directly.
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Sure. I get that. There's more to it than that, but it's what I see as a big difference.
Still... I think a braver soul than I could argue that Elder Scrolls has become less of an RPG with every new release.
I'm not saying having RPG elements can't drastically improve a game or be fun or whatever, I just think that Dark Souls is still fundamentally Dark Souls without them. Christ, we kind of had a Souls without stats - Sekiro - and it worked fine. More than fine.
Dark Souls' RPG mechanics are a neat little sub-system of customisation really, most of which govern damage types or tweak more traditional video game variables. They also act as reward/equipment gateways and provide a sense of progression.
Dark Souls' world (and our non-combat interactions with it) are not expressed through those stats. Take the table top rules out of a game like, say, Pillars of Eternity or Planescape or whatever, and you don't have a game at all.
Xenoblade games on the list ✅
FE:Awakening is properly respected ✅
TMS #FE on the list ✅
Atelier games on the list ✅
Dragons Dogma on the list ✅
Bravely Series on the list ✅
The list maker has my respect. Good list
They missed Etrian games tho
FE:Awakening is properly respected ✅
TMS #FE on the list ✅
Atelier games on the list ✅
Dragons Dogma on the list ✅
Bravely Series on the list ✅
The list maker has my respect. Good list
They missed Etrian games tho
JFC, lost count how many of those games aren't even RPGs. If you're going to toss any game you like into the pot "just cuz", at least take the effort to frame the article correctly.
But Sekiro fundamentally isn't Dark Souls. It's very much its own thing and other than being difficult and made by FROM has more or less fuck all to do with the Souls series. It doesn't even share the same obtuse narrative trappings never mind the mechanical ones.
Dark Souls RPG mechanics are fairly integral to the game, they not only serve as an important part of the actual "game" part of the game (being an exercise in resource management) they also arguably (and this is stretching a bit) underscore the "everything has a cost" theme thats common to the franchise. They also determine how you interact with the world because they determine what weapons you can use, what spells you can cast, what armour and gear you can wear. There are numerous avenues of play that are reliant upon engaging with those mechanics. That's not even getting into how the raw stats can affect your playstyle by unlocking more iframes or quicker rolls etc. They fundamentally affect your experience with the game. I honestly can't see a convincing argument for how they aren't integral to the game. But of course opinion varies. I mean you could argue that Planscape, given the binary nature of it's skill checks, could have all its statistics removed and replaced with simple dialogue options and it wouldnt hugely affect the actual experience of the game.
This list is super weird.
Disco Elysium and Fallout: New Vegas deserve top 10 status. Pillars deserve at least a mention.
And while I am not a fan of it, the fact that Skyrim is not even here is mind melting.
Lastly, there is no dimension where Dark Souls is not the top RPG of the decade.
I honestly think it is a mistake to make an actual top 10. Top 3 and tiers would have been a better approach.
Disco Elysium and Fallout: New Vegas deserve top 10 status. Pillars deserve at least a mention.
And while I am not a fan of it, the fact that Skyrim is not even here is mind melting.
Lastly, there is no dimension where Dark Souls is not the top RPG of the decade.
I honestly think it is a mistake to make an actual top 10. Top 3 and tiers would have been a better approach.
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I knew I'd get shit for this :D
Yeah, you're right. I meant that they share a similar formula/template, in the broadest and most reductive sense, and it is one that works - I think - with or without the additional layer of stats.
I'm not going to convince anyone about that, am I? Okay, forget Sekiro then.
I think Dark Souls is a specific atmosphere; it's incredibly realised boss battles; it's a punishing gauntlet of combat encounters that require patience and knowledge to overcome; it has a uniquely dark and melancholic 'fallen grandeur' aesthetic.
The character stats add a welcome layer of economy and customisation to the game, but I don't think they are fundamental to Dark Souls' identity.
It's a moot point, but if Demon Souls didn't have character stats and instead had weapons/armour/spells do all that heavy lifting in the background, I don't think anyone would have noticed.
I covered a lot of that (albeit very, very briefly) when I said "traditional gameplay mechanics". There's a difference between those and an overarching rule system.
If you took the gaming system out of Dungeons and Dragons (by which I mean the over rules that govern the world, your interactions with it, its interaction with you, and how you express yourself within it), you're not left with a game, you're left with a CYOA book.
The way I see it, everything in a role playing game - and I mean everything - is governed and expressed by an additional, top level rule set; a system that abstracts everything from sword swings, to your next encounter, to how the world sees you.
The player is very much aware of these rules and expected to understand and - on some level - partake in them. They suffuse everything. Removing them would be like surgically removing someone's skeleton.
Take the "binary choices" of Planescape: There are usually more than two and what's available is based on a combination of stats. If you have high Might, for example, you will open up different, more threatening dialogue options than if you had high Wisdom.
Which choice you pick feeds into the rule's alignment system, which in turn affects how other characters interact with you (in combination with your stat spread, faction choice, etc.), which can open up additional side quests or alter (possibly?) the ending in fundamental ways (don't spoil it, I'm nearly there!).
Your stat choice allows you to express yourself within the ruleset and for the ruleset to reflect those back at the player in a myriad of ways. Given that dialogue is a large part of what makes Planescape so unique and is central to it's design philosophy, appeal and, indeed, the praise it receives, I think reducing all that would fundamentally alter it.
Dark Souls, on the other hand, is expressed primarily by traditional game mechanics, all of which are hidden calculations made by the computer on the fly. It is considered an Action RPG, after all. Character stats only affect certain values; primarily damage, iframes, what weapons you can use, and how many spells you can have/fling.
If you press R1, your sword swing hits or misses based on your abilities as a player, not on how high your DEX or STR are. Certain weapons are gatewayed by stats, sure, but again, that's a threshold for a gameplay mechanic; whether you can use something or not, as opposed to an expression of your actual ability with that weapon (which, again, is entirely governed by your abilities as player). You can do that in Call of Duty's MP! 😂
If you spring a trap, it is your reactions as a player that will allow you to move out of the way, not a numerical abstraction of your finesse (though you'll have an easier time with more iframes, another unlockable gameplay mechanic).
If you talk to a character, you are given a couple of options; there is no stat governing the number or flavour of these based on an abstraction of your character's social abilities.
Take those stats out of Dark Souls and I think you'd still be left with all the fundamental aspects that make Dark Souls what it is. Take the dialogue options out of Planescape and it wouldn't be the same game at all.
Honestly, I think Dark Souls is probably closer to something like Zelda or even a very slow and simple character action game than a traditional RPG. Then again, I'm a guy who doesn't think Nirvana was a grunge band, so there may be something wrong with me.
Yeah, you're right. I meant that they share a similar formula/template, in the broadest and most reductive sense, and it is one that works - I think - with or without the additional layer of stats.
I'm not going to convince anyone about that, am I? Okay, forget Sekiro then.
I think Dark Souls is a specific atmosphere; it's incredibly realised boss battles; it's a punishing gauntlet of combat encounters that require patience and knowledge to overcome; it has a uniquely dark and melancholic 'fallen grandeur' aesthetic.
The character stats add a welcome layer of economy and customisation to the game, but I don't think they are fundamental to Dark Souls' identity.
It's a moot point, but if Demon Souls didn't have character stats and instead had weapons/armour/spells do all that heavy lifting in the background, I don't think anyone would have noticed.
I covered a lot of that (albeit very, very briefly) when I said "traditional gameplay mechanics". There's a difference between those and an overarching rule system.
If you took the gaming system out of Dungeons and Dragons (by which I mean the over rules that govern the world, your interactions with it, its interaction with you, and how you express yourself within it), you're not left with a game, you're left with a CYOA book.
The way I see it, everything in a role playing game - and I mean everything - is governed and expressed by an additional, top level rule set; a system that abstracts everything from sword swings, to your next encounter, to how the world sees you.
The player is very much aware of these rules and expected to understand and - on some level - partake in them. They suffuse everything. Removing them would be like surgically removing someone's skeleton.
Take the "binary choices" of Planescape: There are usually more than two and what's available is based on a combination of stats. If you have high Might, for example, you will open up different, more threatening dialogue options than if you had high Wisdom.
Which choice you pick feeds into the rule's alignment system, which in turn affects how other characters interact with you (in combination with your stat spread, faction choice, etc.), which can open up additional side quests or alter (possibly?) the ending in fundamental ways (don't spoil it, I'm nearly there!).
Your stat choice allows you to express yourself within the ruleset and for the ruleset to reflect those back at the player in a myriad of ways. Given that dialogue is a large part of what makes Planescape so unique and is central to it's design philosophy, appeal and, indeed, the praise it receives, I think reducing all that would fundamentally alter it.
Dark Souls, on the other hand, is expressed primarily by traditional game mechanics, all of which are hidden calculations made by the computer on the fly. It is considered an Action RPG, after all. Character stats only affect certain values; primarily damage, iframes, what weapons you can use, and how many spells you can have/fling.
If you press R1, your sword swing hits or misses based on your abilities as a player, not on how high your DEX or STR are. Certain weapons are gatewayed by stats, sure, but again, that's a threshold for a gameplay mechanic; whether you can use something or not, as opposed to an expression of your actual ability with that weapon (which, again, is entirely governed by your abilities as player). You can do that in Call of Duty's MP! 😂
If you spring a trap, it is your reactions as a player that will allow you to move out of the way, not a numerical abstraction of your finesse (though you'll have an easier time with more iframes, another unlockable gameplay mechanic).
If you talk to a character, you are given a couple of options; there is no stat governing the number or flavour of these based on an abstraction of your character's social abilities.
Take those stats out of Dark Souls and I think you'd still be left with all the fundamental aspects that make Dark Souls what it is. Take the dialogue options out of Planescape and it wouldn't be the same game at all.
Honestly, I think Dark Souls is probably closer to something like Zelda or even a very slow and simple character action game than a traditional RPG. Then again, I'm a guy who doesn't think Nirvana was a grunge band, so there may be something wrong with me.
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I don't think Fire Emblem Awakening should be #9.
Three Houses is a better game, and I'd also take Fates Conquest (which isn't listed) over it.
Awakening is important for revitalizing the franchise, but it doesn't warrant such an over-appraisal.
Three Houses is a better game, and I'd also take Fates Conquest (which isn't listed) over it.
Awakening is important for revitalizing the franchise, but it doesn't warrant such an over-appraisal.
The 3DS was totally robbed all things considered. None of the Shin Megami Tensei made it on the list either.
There are many things wrong with this list (omissions and miscategorizations chief among them) but ranking Divinity 2 as a tier 3 RPG is particularly egregious. It essentially invalidates the rest.