RPS: Cyberpunk 2077's E3 demo has weak gunplay and unimaginative stereotypes

Claven

Game Localization
Verified
Aug 22, 2018
2,998
If that 20 minute video of Bloodlines 2 is representative, it is going to be even more of a mess than 2077.
I don't mind a bit if jank if the writing, representation and themes are good.

But I'm going to have a huge issue with a superbly polished game that is juuuust a teeny bit racist and transphobic.
 

Mesoian

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,524
But this is what a dystopian world mean to be, a place full of bad pll, bad choices, no respect, stupidit, bigotry and goes on, the "bad joke" is part od the world as a dystopian one

hopefully the game ll have some good messagem behind all this madness
Yes, but just because "they're bad" doesn't mean crass or stupid examples of characterization are fine. If anything, it gives you a large sprawling narrative framework to use that you wouldn't normally get to, something where you can take a lot of liberties and risks.

And then they go with calling the black gang "the animals".

That's poor man.
 

MakotoYuki

Member
Oct 28, 2017
306
I dropped The Witcher 3 because of the mediocre gamplay, so I'm disappointed to hear they're repeating the same mistake again.
 

misho8723

Member
Jan 7, 2018
1,398
Slovakia
But aren't campanies using sex to sell stuff? It was that way in the past, it works that way today and it's pretty much a given that even in the future marketing is going to be heavily driven by "sex sells", no? Like there are so many sexist and fetish ads and billboards in our cities, do you thing it's not going to be that way in the future? Racism was here from the beginning, it's still here - look how the US are still racist even in this days and it's not going to be away even in 100 years in the future.. of course, not excusing actual racism and transphobia and homophobia and such in the finished and released game
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,508
Mushroom Kingdom
FFS! This looking to be my first ever CDPR experience, and now all of this shit... I should be excited, but now I don't even know.
Always figured the hype for this game won't meet expectation. This is their first foray into the FPS genre. People expecting them to automatically be in the upper tier of the genre mechanics are in for disappointment. i'll happily eat crow if i'm wrong come release though and i'm sure the RPG parts are top tier

You should really try Witcher 3 if you haven't. Still one of the best games this gen so far.
 

dreamfall

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,593
I honestly couldn’t care about the gunplay. In these massive RPGs, anything more serviceable than the Bethesda model has me excited. I will say Fallout 4’s over the shoulder shooting mechanics improved greatly even if the writing suffered.

For this game, writing is everything to me. These stereotypes seem to fall in line with some of the not so subtle racist trappings of the Cyberpunk genre. But I’m hoping with Mike Pondsmith on board, this can be addressed swiftly and in a balanced manner.
 

Slim

Member
Sep 24, 2018
2,383
Not really surprised about the gameplay. TW3 was incredibly weak in that regard.
 

LocoRoco

Member
Feb 22, 2019
345
Yes, but just because "they're bad" doesn't mean crass or stupid examples of characterization are fine. If anything, it gives you a large sprawling narrative framework to use that you wouldn't normally get to, something where you can take a lot of liberties and risks.

And then they go with calling the black gang "the animals".

That's poor man.
as i said before, maybe the game have a nice message or something i dont know, i agree with you that are better ways to get public attention then this one, but i cant fully judge without seeing the full game.
 

Mesoian

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,524

Villein

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
866
well while Witcher 3 was a great game, it too had weak combat and some unimaginative characters that seemed stereotypes ripped from other sources
 

Mesoian

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,524
well while Witcher 3 was a great game, it too had weak combat and some unimaginative characters that seemed stereotypes ripped from other sources
Remember in the Witcher 1 when you go to some lake and there's a naked lake nymph in there and she asks you get her pendant back and you do and then you have sex?

Pepperidge Farms remembers.
 

blackw0lf48

Member
Jan 2, 2019
318
I have a theory that because in Witcher 3 CD Project was using a pre-established world, that's why the worldbuilding and characterization was so strong. But with Cyberpunk, even though it's a pre-existing property, it touches on real world cultures and so they have to do their own research, which is why the game may not turn out to be as strong when it comes to representation of cultures.

Now this is maybe, they did say in the article that they are using consultants to make sure they get depiction of various cultures and groups right. So hopefully we'll see more nuance going forward. But I think the above is why just because the Witcher had such fantastic characterization doesn't mean Cyberpunk necessarily will
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,579
My man!!!!!

How about that Gwent though? That's a pretty good time though, right?
As I've said, I agree with everything you've said. This should've been a Pokemon-like game where battles are fought out in Gwent.
Beaten enemies are trapped in cards :))))
Oh, and replace that god damn horse with a dragon-mount or a jet-pack, so travelling from A to B isn't a chore.
Then we're talking 9.5/10 Gotg contender.
Are we still frens now?
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,777
I don't mind a bit if jank if the writing, representation and themes are good.

But I'm going to have a huge issue with a superbly polished game that is juuuust a teeny bit racist and transphobic.
And this is ultimately the crux of the matter. Writing wise CDPR strikes me as capable of being able to tell that these things are problematic. If you are making mistakes lesser studios can avoid, then I am not convinced they even acknowledge these are bad.
 

doncabesa

Member
Jun 27, 2018
428
You act like people haven't played this yet and aren't reporting about it.

You should go listen to waypoint's podcast from last night, they go in deep.



I mean his point is literally, "Shut up, I don't have a problem with it and neither should you."

So....:🤷:
I don't have 4 hours! I do enjoy their stuff from time to time but even as someone pretty far to the left they go too far for me occasionally.
 

Mesoian

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,524

ResidentDuke

Banned
Jan 16, 2019
37
You act like people haven't played this yet and aren't reporting about it.

You should go listen to waypoint's podcast from last night, they go in deep.



I mean his point is literally, "Shut up, I don't have a problem with it and neither should you."

So....:🤷:
i mean its still an opinion... he got banned ?!?!.... wow
 

Deleted member 49804

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 21, 2018
1,868
On a very different note, the shooting looks limp. Bullets pile into people as their healthbars tick down, each shot lacking impact despite goon after goon tumbling to the floor. I’m hoping I won’t need to resort to my gun too often, though: abilities like that turret manhandling spice up what looks like piddly gunplay.
What does the person mean by that?
Can someone compare this to The Division, Destiny or normal non RPG shooter?
 

Braaier

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
13,237
As I've said, I agree with everything you've said. This should've been a Pokemon-like game where battles are fought out in Gwent.
Beaten enemies are trapped in cards :))))
Oh, and replace that god damn horse with a dragon-mount or a jet-pack, so travelling from A to B isn't a chore.
Then we're talking 9.5/10 Gotg contender.
Are we still frens now?
LOL!

I played on PC so the first mod I installed was a fast travel mod. None of that finding a sign post bullshit. Made the game slightly more bearable.
 

Javier23

Member
Oct 28, 2017
998
It's like all sense of subtlety went out the window from their witcher writing
TW3 was amazing, but there was very little subtlety in how it lifted the themes and plot straight from the novels. It was a very utilitarian adaptation that just rehashed everything instead of writing an actual sequel. So the games' canon is this very weird timeline where stuff seemingly just happened twice.
 

Mesoian

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,524
i mean its still an opinion... he got banned ?!?!.... wow
I mean, it's not an opinion, it's a meaningless drive by statement that adds nothing to the conversation.

If you don't care, don't chime in. The majority of the two threads on this are people who are so sensitive that their privilege DICTATES that they have to tell people that it's not a problem because they don't think it's a problem. That's meaningless, it's less than nothing.

If you don't think it's a problem, explain why. Don't just fold your arms and sulk and go "why are people so fragile, I can't believe it, I still want to play the video game but everyone's mad, mheeee". There's no discourse there.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,338
why should he be banned, he gave his opinion which is totally legit ??
They were banned for their shitty dismissal of the concerns of people this affects.

You know, one of the things this community literally doesn't tolerate for good fucking reason?

There are other forums if you don't like it.

i mean its still an opinion... he got banned ?!?!.... wow
And opinions can be dismissive, harmful, and flat out fucking disgusting.
 

plau

Member
Oct 30, 2017
138
Remember in the Witcher 1 when you go to some lake and there's a naked lake nymph in there and she asks you get her pendant back and you do and then you have sex?

Pepperidge Farms remembers.
Huh? Pretty sure you couldn't have sex with her, but it's been a while since I played.
 

Fjordson

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,065
Mechanically the game is sounding pretty interesting to me. Based on last year's gameplay demo and impressions from this year, it sounds like you have a bunch of options at your disposal and that they aren't holding back on the RPG elements like skillchecks and whatnot. That all sounds great.

Creatively with the story, characters and dialogue though I am feeling a little uneasy. I really hope there's something a bit deeper here than just futuristic GTA crudeness. And CDPR's history with social issues gives me pause.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,338
How can they comment on the gunplay if they haven’t played it? 🤔
"the shooting looks limp" they#re commenting on what they saw.

And as people who have a lot of experience viewing material, and understanding how that translates to hands on experience, it's a fair point. If it looks limp, there's a good chance it will feel limp.

I'm sure you're the same if you have a lot of experience in gaming, while you can't always be 100% sure you can very often view footage and understand how the game will feel to play, If an animation is clunky, it will feel clunky to control. If bullets pile into enemies with little feedback, it will probably feel unsatisfying to shoot. Etc...

And while you need hands on to truly tell, a lot can be taken from a look when you have so much experience with games.
 

Chris McQueen

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
4,806
London
Always figured the hype for this game won't meet expectation. This is their first foray into the FPS genre. People expecting them to automatically be in the upper tier of the genre mechanics are in for disappointment. i'll happily eat crow if i'm wrong come release though and i'm sure the RPG parts are top tier

You should really try Witcher 3 if you haven't. Still one of the best games this gen so far.
Yeah, I'm looking to buy Witcher 3 before playing Cyberpunk.