RPS: Cyberpunk 2077's E3 demo has weak gunplay and unimaginative stereotypes

XDevil666

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,511
You know what I’m most looking forward to from this game is the story telling, characters and beautiful world.
 

dishonestjest

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,046
Meh, good gunplay is obviously preferable, but for a game like this, it is probably lowest on my priorities or wants for them to polish and get right. If we were talking about a PvP game, it would register a lot higher, but I don’t really care, I just want to explore the world and role play with great story telling and that is what CDPR excels at.
Hell mother fucking yeah.
 

Mesoian

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,325

Zok310

Member
Oct 25, 2017
577
Hang on to your preorder money until we see more gameplay. The game bascially have a year to go before launch so plenty of time to make corrections.
 

jkm23

Member
Nov 10, 2017
8,332
Witcher 3 Gameplay didn't bother me. I liked it.

I see all the comparisons to Deus Ex... I'll admit I always went stealth so... not super familiar with how it works there. Bullet spongers WITHOUT a health bar are awful but I can deal with health bared ones.

On to the other shit:

1. It sounds like I'd be mortified to play certain parts of this game with my GF and one of my close friends. "Voodoers".... Oh boy. My friend speaks Creole and sounds nothing like what is depicted.
2. I'm not personally affected by fetishistic ads in game floating around, so not super important that my take be recorded in the other thread, but its the carnary in the coal mind for a lot of folks for good reason. The questions about CDProjeck Red being able to handle transhumanism and trans issues appear to be valid at this time.
3. I'm not up to speed with Cyberpunk 2020, I've just watched the Blade Runners, read Neuromancer and played a few Cyberpunk video games. I have no idea if the world of Cyberpunk 2077 is really that crass or not. And of it was, the source material is 30 years old, updating how such a world would be portrayed, if not updating the world itself, should have been a focus.

The game isn't out yet but certain parts aren't shaping up as a lot of people have hoped. CD Projeck had to win back some people and they haven't done it. The onus is on them, not the media and not us to fix this.
 

Soj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,314
After reading this thread and the one about the drink ad, the game has become off-putting to me on multiple fronts. I'll wait and see what the final product is, but it's hard to feel much excitement for it now.
 

Dphex

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,781
Cologne, Germany
i really think more people should look into the source material of Cyberpunk 2020 to form their opinion...

let me put it this way: many things aren´t CD Projekt Reds way of thinking but an adaptation of the source material-which is often also questionable
 
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derFeef

derFeef

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,648
Austria

Austin Walker quite eloquently summarises my feelings pretty well about the game (at 3hrs:43mins), wanting to be excited about something that hits so many of my personal likes and interest points but there is that lingering feeling of the next shitty thing being right around the corner.
Good video, added to threadmarks. So you still think there is nothing wrong with some of the depiction of stereotypes in this game?
 

Cyclonesweep

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,595
You're not alone in that, which is why I think people are taking such an affront to stuff like the poster way more than they would any other game.




I like Dues Ex a lot.

But when it gets it wrong, it gets it WAY wrong.
What was the issue with that. I've met people who talk like that in real life and isn't there other people of color who don't speak like that in the game?
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,199
i really think more people should look into the source material of Cyberpunk 2020 to form their opinion...

let me put it this way: many things aren´t CD Projekt Reds way of thinking but an adaptation of the source material which is often also questionable
I really think people like yourself need to read the threads about this game, and realize your point has been covered many times and why it's not an excuse to point at the source and say "but Cyberpunk".
 

Mesoian

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,325
I chuckled. If you put points in it, do you become more racist or less racist though?
I was going to make a joke about racism and ended up making a racist joke instead.

Comedy is hard.

What was the issue with that. I've met people who talk like that in real life and isn't there other people of color who don't speak like that in the game?
Oh my god. Please tell me your not from america.


Good video, added to threadmarks. So you still think there is nothing wrong with some of the depiction of stereotypes in this game?
What few minority depictions we've seen thus far haven't been...great.

But it's all without context. The question is, with context, is it going to get better or worse? Or WAY worse?
 

misho8723

Member
Jan 7, 2018
1,240
Slovakia
well while Witcher 3 was a great game, it too had weak combat and some unimaginative characters that seemed stereotypes ripped from other sources
This is a hot take.. Witcher 3 has dozens and dozens of interesting characters - only ones that are not so interesting are sadly the main bad guys - Eredin and the White Wild.. other than that, it has a fantastic set of characters.. Geralt is great, Ciri, Yennefer, Triss, Letho, Roche and Ves, Keira, Phillippa, Dandelion, Priscilla, Lambert, Zoltan, Eskel, Vesemir, Dijkstra, Avallac'h, Johnny, the Crones, Radovid, Emhyr, Bloody Baron and his family, Anabelle, Elihal, twin sisters var Attre, witcher from the Cat school Gaetan, Yoanna, the whole an Craite family, Mousesack, all the other characters from different Skellige clans, Uma, the Pellar, pretty much all talking trolls, etc.. not to mention all the great (and one of the best in all videogames) characters from the expansion packs
 

Hierophant

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,370
Sydney
Good video, added to threadmarks. So you still think there is nothing wrong with some of the depiction of stereotypes in this game?
Never said that I thought there is nothing wrong with it, I'm coming from a place similar to Austin Walker wherein I very much want to like and be ultra hyped for this thing that's like a fantasy come to life but the circumstances surrounding it are so muddled that it makes it hard, at this point all you can really do is have faith they don't fuck it up.
 
Oct 26, 2017
351
im all for a free world, complain as much as you like.

Pondsmith created a universe and that is what it is. artist and creators are free to do what they like imo.
 
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derFeef

derFeef

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,648
Austria
Wtf is it with people that seem to have biggoted views latching to cyberpunk, when the genre is innately about social issues?
90% of people don't know what Cyberpunk is about. They see cool near future tech, hacking and leather jackets.

Never said that I thought there is nothing wrong with it, I'm coming from a place similar to Austin Walker wherein I very much want to like and be ultra hyped for this thing that's like a fantasy come to life but the circumstances surrounding it are so muddled that it makes it hard, at this point all you can really do is have faith they don't fuck it up.
Fair enought. But for me personally they already showed to much bad stuff to really care about it anymore. It's just sad and I wish they would do better.
 

Mesoian

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,325
im all for a free world, complain as much as you like.

Pondsmith created a universe and that is what it is. artist and creators are free to do what they like imo.
No one's saying otherwise.

If Cyberpunk turns out to be a game that rolls around in racist and transphobic rhetoric, that's on them.

But we will forever question why they decided to fill their fictional world full of unnecessary hate, especially if there's actually no message behind any of it.

Wtf is it with people that seem to have biggoted views latching to cyberpunk, when the genre is innately about social issues?
I mean, there is a lot of racism and Xenophobia in cyberpunk fiction. The better stories are the ones that do something with it instead of including it in order to seem genuine.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,722
i really think more people should look into the source material of Cyberpunk 2020 to form their opinion...
This is literally not accurate to the source material so maybe YOU should look into it.


What was the issue with that.
Imma just quote myself:
Funny you should mention that. There's this thing called voice direction. And this was incredibly racist voice direction. Here's a transcript of the actress actually talking:

"What is the difference between Medea and my blackness? I think the issue with Deus Ex, again I did not have a visual of the character I was playing. Possibly because the roles I played were not major. So the idea that there are characters for priority does not exist, AS if I were the main character who is allowed to develop this."

Hmmmmm


Hmmmmmmmm

HMMMMMMMMMMMMM

I mean surely she has a positive opinion on the character after all she played the char----

"Personally I was under the impression that the voice that seems to be under the stereotypical depiction of blackness was the voice of the homeless character.”


Ok ok, well maybe i'm just making assumptions and projecting. Maybe i'm misinterpreting her words and she really DID put a lot of herself and her mannerisms into the ro---

"Again. After the first character they called me in for, I could've made a better match as to who that lifeless character (Letitia) was and brought to life if these character's were of value to the story and the director's 'point of view.' My character was not that important. And that is where the industry fails actors. I was payed a full days wage for working, no more than, an hour and a half. I would've gladly stayed for eight hours to bring these characters to life."

🤔 Next time you decide to wag your finger at people taking issue with this kinda shit maybe do some research first. 🤔
 

Orbit

Member
Nov 21, 2018
1,043
The Witcher had an incredible world but none of the 3 games had compelling gameplay. It seems like it's improved for Cyberpunk but this opinion is somewhat worrying. I don't want to play a dull shooter for 50-100 hours just because of a good story or world, the game has to feel good for me to bother.
so true. while i enjoyed witcher 3's combat, it def was nothing revolutionary, and CD projekt had 3 entries into the series to try and get it right. so now they are doing a first-person shooter - a genre they have never tackled before.but then again, bethesda fallout titles prove if you have an interesting world and cool enough mechanics, you can get by with crappy shooting. Heck, borderlands 2 is a pretty good game but the gun play only feels good because of the variety of guns.
 

Mesoian

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,325
I see. Definitely seems like a bad call on the one character. Which is really odd for that game cause like...every other character of color I remember was done very well.
YURP, which is why it was that much worse.

There is no reason for Lietisha to be like that, and no one saw a problem with it, which is, in and of itself, a HUGE FUCKING PROBLEM.
 

Zonal Hertz

Member
Jun 13, 2018
338
3. I'm not up to speed with Cyberpunk 2020, I've just watched the Blade Runners, read Neuromancer and played a few Cyberpunk video games. I have no idea if the world of Cyberpunk 2077 is really that crass or not. And of it was, the source material is 30 years old, updating how such a world would be portrayed, if not updating the world itself, should have been a focus.
I’m in a similar boat to you regarding info on the source material. However I don’t think updating how the world should be portrayed is such a simple decision to make like you have stated. Texts absolutely should be modernised, but if the crux of the world is based on it being a dystopic hellscape full of racisim, bigotry and homophobia, then cdpr kind of made their bed when they chose to create that world.

I’m not one to silence art and believe people should be able to create whatever they want. So if that’s the world cdpr want us to see, so be it. I just hope marketing etc doesn’t try to hide how bad it is. As long as the public know what they are getting into, people can vote with their wallets and their criticisms online. I have a feeling cdpr know all this and frankly don’t care and will be interested to see how their sales do.

Personally I’m still on the fence.
 

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,530
This is a very expansive rpg like Witcher so I don't think it plays well in short demos. That said the gunplay issues are very relevant and I hope they get ironed out.
 

Villein

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
477
This is a hot take.. Witcher 3 has dozens and dozens of interesting characters - only ones that are not so interesting are sadly the main bad guys - Eredin and the White Wild.. other than that, it has a fantastic set of characters.. Geralt is great, Ciri, Yennefer, Triss, Letho, Roche and Ves, Keira, Phillippa, Dandelion, Priscilla, Lambert, Zoltan, Eskel, Vesemir, Dijkstra, Avallac'h, Johnny, the Crones, Radovid, Emhyr, Bloody Baron and his family, Anabelle, Elihal, twin sisters var Attre, witcher from the Cat school Gaetan, Yoanna, the whole an Craite family, Mousesack, all the other characters from different Skellige clans, Uma, the Pellar, pretty much all talking trolls, etc.. not to mention all the great (and one of the best in all videogames) characters from the expansion packs
guess you need a refresher of what some means
 

PSqueak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,078
Correct me If I am wrong.
Shouldn't dystopian cyberpunk be full of racism,slurs and offensive stuff? This is downfall of social relationships, not sure why it should be pretty.
One of the core traits of cyberpunk is the raise of transhumanism, if you're at the point that body modifications and transhumanism is accessible to everyone, traditional racism and stereotypes would not be as prominent as in the real life present, discrimination and tension would instead shift towards those who embrace transhumanism and those who don't. So no, a cyber punk dystopian wouldn't be stuck in old timey racism and slurs when they should have moved into the next thing.
 

jkm23

Member
Nov 10, 2017
8,332
I’m in a similar boat to you regarding info on the source material. However I don’t think updating how the world should be portrayed is such a simple decision to make like you have stated. Texts absolutely should be modernised, but if the crux of the world is based on it being a dystopic hellscape full of racisim, bigotry and homophobia, then cdpr kind of made their bed when they chose to create that world.

I’m not one to silence art and believe people should be able to create whatever they want. So if that’s the world cdpr want us to see, so be it. I just hope marketing etc doesn’t try to hide how bad it is. As long as the public know what they are getting into, people can vote with their wallets and their criticisms online. I have a feeling cdpr know all this and frankly don’t care and will be interested to see how their sales do.

Personally I’m still on the fence.
You can create a world full of bad things, ideas and terrible social strife but do it with more depth than "voodoo gang". Even if there is an in universe explanation that adds more nuance and depth, caring about how something like this would be perceived would have led to them realizing that avoiding such tired sterotypes all together would save them time and effort. Give them a different name, something have to do with Haiti's history or something else from the culture and have a brief back story as opposed to just letting the sterotype lie or over explain how it doesn't mean what you think it means. And that's just one thing.

It's clear the CDPr is aware of all the coverage and discussions surrounding this but they probably think its a storm in a teacup. We'll see if sales are affected.


We haven't played the game yet and even RPS has sampled just a small segment. The signs haven't been amazing yet.
 

misho8723

Member
Jan 7, 2018
1,240
Slovakia
guess you need a refresher of what some means
So please, tell me about "some" of those characters.. I mean in a game where you have conversations with more than 150 characters, not every single one is going to have the depth of the main cast or somebody who is important to the main or a side story..
So can you remind me of those characters that you think were unimaginative ?
 

Soj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,314
i really think more people should look into the source material of Cyberpunk 2020 to form their opinion...

let me put it this way: many things aren´t CD Projekt Reds way of thinking but an adaptation of the source material-which is often also questionable
They have full creative control, right? I thought they acquired the IP.
 

Yossarian

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,372
One of the core traits of cyberpunk is the raise of transhumanism, if you're at the point that body modifications and transhumanism is accessible to everyone, traditional racism and stereotypes would not be as prominent as in the real life present, discrimination and tension would instead shift towards those who embrace transhumanism and those who don't. So no, a cyber punk dystopian wouldn't be stuck in old timey racism and slurs when they should have moved into the next thing.
Not defending CDPR here, but that’s not how fiction works.