RPS: Cyberpunk 2077's E3 demo has weak gunplay and unimaginative stereotypes

GUSH

Member
Nov 17, 2017
395

I like Dues Ex a lot.

But when it gets it wrong, it gets it WAY wrong.
It's crazy this somehow made it into the game. I remember playing it at launch and being absolutely blown away they thought that was somehow a good idea. It's like they replayed Deus Ex (2000) and thought they had to go above and beyond the most egregious voice work in Hong Kong or it wouldn't be TRUE Deus Ex. Just awful.
 

Mesoian

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,325
It's crazy this somehow made it into the game. I remember playing it at launch and being absolutely blown away they thought that was somehow a good idea. It's like they replayed Deus Ex (2000) and thought they had to go above and beyond the most egregious voice work in Hong Kong or it wouldn't be TRUE Deus Ex. Just awful.
I mean the hong kong brothel stuff is ALSO bad. Using Apocalypse Now as the vocal print for ALL of your Asian people is a bad look.
 

KOHIPEET

Member
Oct 29, 2017
402
If the existence of these stereotypes are justified within the story, I don't really care. Game is a form of art. You can't do art without offending someone.
 

GUSH

Member
Nov 17, 2017
395
I mean the hong kong brothel stuff is ALSO bad. Using Apocalypse Now as the vocal print for ALL of your Asian people is a bad look.
Oh yeah I'm not trying to downplay that whatsoever, I really should've phrased that better.

It just strikes me as next to impossible to accidentally portray a character like that, which is where the tongue in cheek comment about them doing it intentionally as a throwback came from.
 
May 26, 2018
3,348
... and the fact that the Voody Boys in the soruce material are not even Hatians but white guys...
Someone at CDP must have felt really smart making them all Haitan.
Imagine looking at the source material and saying, you know what, these mindless butchers being white is the actual problem here. Let’s strip out the layer of commentary on messed up people in a dystopian society, and make it solely a gigantic racist stereotype.

Like, what? This is how you translate it? This is how you focus your time when writing in this setting? To devolve into r-rated Looney Tunes racism?
 

Kaizer

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,462
my apologies if this was already posted:

MAAAAAN, my enthusiasm & hype for this has deflated quite a bit - hearing things like this is just incredibly disappointing. I've still got a Collector's Edition pre-order locked in at Amazon, but I'm definitely inching closer & closer to a "wait & see" approach instead.
 

Ivory Samoan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
483
New Zealand
from last years impression of best game ever to this?
Don't just take one outlet's hot take as gospel: a lot of other spots said gunplay looked great, and thought the characterization was good.

Wait till you see it in August, everyone jumping on the bandwagon already it seems though.

Gunplay seems like Mankind Divided level, which was fine/great IMO.
 

Cabbagehead

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,822
It seems like folks are looking for things to shit on this game about. An RPG shotgun seems to have not changed.

Interesting to see if the game itself actual plays and looks as they say.
 

Yossarian

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,372
We're talking about genre staples here tho, so no, "Hardcore racial stereotypes" are NOT a staple of Cyberpunk.
You brought up ‘genre staples’ and ‘hardcore racial stereotypes’. Not to speak on their behalf, but that doesn’t seem to be what they were asking.

Regardless, my issue is, you said that racism ‘would not’ be prominent in a transhuman society. While that’s certainly one way to build your cyberpunk setting, one does not automatically negate the other. Given Science/Speculative Fiction is invariably about the present through the ‘safer’ lens of a speculated future, it is perfectly within its remit to deal with one, the other or both.
 

Loudninja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,715
It seems like folks are looking for things to shit on this game about. An RPG shotgun seems to have not changed.

Interesting to see if the game itself actual plays and looks as they say.
If you not going to discuss the subject matter why even bother?These are real and serious issues that need to be discuss.
 

SharpX68K

Member
Nov 10, 2017
3,850
I want to know about the gameplay graphics and framerate, and the specs of the PC it was running on this year.
 

Cabbagehead

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,822
If you not going to discuss the subject matter why even bother?These are real and serious issues that need to be discuss.
No one here has seen the demo, it odd to jump to a bunch of conclusions. Its like a powder keg looking for blood.

We have one article. With no general contextual information saying that its about killing black gangs. Despite other reports, saying its not as it seems.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,573
All other clearly problematic things aside which I won't further comment on as I feel others have provided plenty of good perspective on it, I just want to say...

It's not a good Deus Ex clone if the gunplay isn't complete garbage. So that's at least something working in this game's favor!
 
Oct 26, 2017
351
User Banned (1 week): Dismissing concerns regarding racism in a sensitive thread. History of similar behavior.
Game looks so good, haters gonna hate. keep at it CDPR this game is going to sell millions and be so awesome. I have no doubt.
 

Kurdel

Member
Nov 7, 2017
8,246
Thing is you cannot get mad that they are sexualizing a trans girl and be look okay it's cool of its a Cis girl both are sexism and you cannot pick and choose.
Why on earth would you assume I would defend either of those thngs? Especially in the context of this game and developer...
 
May 26, 2018
3,348
No one here has seen the demo, it odd to jump to a bunch of conclusions. Its like a powder keg looking for blood.

We have one article. With no general contextual information saying that its about killing black gangs. Despite other reports, saying its not as it seems.
Well, we (generally) trust single reports on the game from people who saw the demo. I suppose one could argue this too is an issue, but who is going to bring that up unless it's in a thread like this?
 

Yossarian

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,372
Correct me If I am wrong.
Shouldn't dystopian cyberpunk be full of racism,slurs and offensive stuff? This is downfall of social relationships, not sure why it should be pretty.
Cyberpunk as a genre is less about the breakdown of society (that’s more post-apocalyptic fiction’s wheelhouse) and more about rampant corporatism and the impact of technology on human identity and society.

While it is possible for racism to exist in the genre, the complaint here is about how CDPR are portraying certain groups in a stereotyped way.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,573
Game looks so good, haters gonna hate. keep at it CDPR this game is going to sell millions and be so awesome. I have no doubt.
As long as [popular thing] sells, it's all good! Let's not think too much about things. Especially not things that don't bother me personally because the universe clearly revolves only around me. Forever.

This post really pisses me off :/
Some people wear stupidity as a badge of honor, I've noticed.

my apologies if this was already posted:

What the fuck at that first tweet in particular.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,923
I think with a setting/game like the Witcher, there's a long leash of cultural representation. Like, the main character exists as a sort of pariah outside of society, so for him to be weird in some way ... questioning/mocking someone's behavior or doing something unacceptable by contemporary standards, I think there's greater leash there, you can try and dismiss it as "Well, the Witcher is a pariah who lives outside of society and so obviously he lacks social graces..." Also when it comes to a medieval fantasy world similar to Eastern/Slavic Europe, there's less opportunity to fuck something up.

Cyberpunk throws a wrench into that because if you inexplicably leave out other cultures from the game other than like ... white, eurocentric culture, then they'll rightly be criticized for not having any diverse representation in the game, but then if they do, then they actually have to do it well and the sort of cultural ignorance nearing on supremacy that pervades the community where CDPR develops in ... eh, they're entering touchy territory that they probably need to be better at. I'm not saying all Poles, Slavs, or what have you, are ignorant of other cultures or supremacists for their own, but ... as a Polish American, we've got some issues with both here.

I don't think CDPR is really willing to take cultural representation seriously, or willing to put in the work to make authentic representations that don't play up stereotypes. Given all of these "gaffes" they've had recently, I think they're on shaky ground and not putting in the work could make them persona non grata.
 
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Cabbagehead

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,822
I would take a bet that this is not representative of what is actually happening. CDPR suddenly decided to make a genocide simulator.
I guess we'll see. But i will say that Cyberpunk genre is going to get under a lot of peoples skin general speaking. Hopefully CDPR does take note.

Because the subject matter and the ways the genre explores so many underpinnings of future and modern society optics. Might be tricky.
 
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derFeef

derFeef

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,649
Austria
I would take a bet that this is not representative of what is actually happening. CDPR suddenly decided to make a genocide simulator.
 
May 26, 2018
3,348
Cyberpunk as a genre is less about the breakdown of society (that’s more post-apocalyptic fiction’s wheelhouse) and more about rampant corporatism and the impact of technology on human identity and society.

While it is possible for racism to exist in the genre, the complaint here is about how CDPR are portraying certain groups in a stereotyped way.
I think the hypothetical question here might be if minorities are depicted in traditionally racist ways while whites are depicted as "normal," though still horrible criminals. Then the it's not racist, everyone's shitty argument dies on the vine.

And even if it's equally balanced stereotyping, it's like "if the story is about the presence of racism in a chaotic dystopia, why are you making the characters racist caricatures instead of just being racist people? Why is this the language of your commentary?"

Note: I have no idea if this is going on in Cyberpunk. I haven't seen enough of the story.
 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,794
Eh what? I can’t like The game? Just cause some reporter didn’t like the gun play or the dystopian setting with all its offensive stuff, I’m not going to stop liking what I see.

This game looks massive and awesome in every way
No, people are angered by your dismissal of the transphobic and racist content in the game as "haters gonna hate'.
 

SpinierBlakeD

Member
Oct 28, 2018
1,240
The gunplay in last years demo looked pretty good. But I don't play RPG's for combat gameplay. I play them for immersive worlds I can get lost in and well crafted quests and I have no doubt Cyberpunk will be great in that regards.
 

Cabbagehead

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,822
I think with a setting/game like the Witcher, there's a long leash of cultural representation. Like, the main character exists as a sort of pariah outside of society, so for him to be weird in some way ... questioning culture or doing something unacceptable, I think there's greater acceptance there. Also when it comes to a medieval fantasy world similar to Eastern/Slavic Europe, there's less opportunity to fuck something up.

Cyberpunk throws a wrench into that because if you inexplicably leave out other cultures from the game other than like ... white, eurocentric culture, then they'll rightly be criticized for not having any diverse representation in the game, but then if they do, then they actually have to do it well and the sort of cultural ignorance nearing on supremacy that pervades the community where CDPR develops in ... eh, they're entering touchy territory. I'm not saying all Poles, Slavs, or what have you, are ignorant of other cultures or supremacists for their own, but ... as a Polish American, we've got some issues with both here.
Pretty much my stance on it. They're playing in muddy water but if you also avoid it and or have to retrofit everything in a nice bow? then where's the commentary...

Will there be commentary?

Is CDPR suited to do that? or is this a case of world building, going to deep. If any of this is the case.
 
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derFeef

derFeef

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,649
Austria
Eh what? I can’t like The game? Just cause some reporter didn’t like the gun play or the dystopian setting with all its offensive stuff, I’m not going to stop liking what I see.

This game looks massive and awesome in every way
Uhhh, you don't need to make an offensive game (to the audience) just to be "awesome".
You can have racism and sexism and all stuff handled in a much better way through better writing. Not to mention that obviously the tone of the game is much different to the soruce material.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,573
I think with a setting/game like the Witcher, there's a long leash of cultural representation. Like, the main character exists as a sort of pariah outside of society, so for him to be weird in some way ... questioning culture or doing something unacceptable, I think there's greater acceptance there. Also when it comes to a medieval fantasy world similar to Eastern/Slavic Europe, there's less opportunity to fuck something up.

Cyberpunk throws a wrench into that because if you inexplicably leave out other cultures from the game other than like ... white, eurocentric culture, then they'll rightly be criticized for not having any diverse representation in the game, but then if they do, then they actually have to do it well and the sort of cultural ignorance nearing on supremacy that pervades the community where CDPR develops in ... eh, they're entering touchy territory. I'm not saying all Poles, Slavs, or what have you, are ignorant of other cultures or supremacists for their own, but ... as a Polish American, we've got some issues with both here.
I mean they could always educate themselves by reading works of and talking to people who have extensively studied the subject? These companies do a ton of research into a million different things. Why not expect them to include this sort of stuff in that especially in a game dealing with a Cyberpunk setting. It's not exactly a huge ask. Fuck, just watch a few hours of Nick Cannon's Youtube show and even that tiny bit of effort ought to be enough to not be a complete fucking idiot in terms of racist garbage in your game. The internet exists. Not being stupid isn't as hard as some people try to make it seem.

Eh what? I can’t like The game? Just cause some reporter didn’t like the gun play or the dystopian setting with all its offensive stuff, I’m not going to stop liking what I see.

This game looks massive and awesome in every way
Excuse the backseat modding but this isn't a thread about how hyped you are for purchasing the latest product. How is you stating that you are interested in making a purchase at all relevant to the discussion other people are having? It comes across as you just wanting to show others how little you care about these issues and that they should probably also not care about them.