RPS: Cyberpunk 2077's E3 demo has weak gunplay and unimaginative stereotypes

Oct 27, 2017
727
Has been posted before, by me even. The source material is what it is, but CDP choose to handle it differently within the game.
What's with the tone? Can't we discuss this normally without getting called "bro" or worse?
lmao policing a black man's tone. How dare you. There is nothing offensive, or no offense meant, by 'bruh.' I used it to show that I DON"T have an attitude holy shit.
 

NinjaGarden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,481
Yeah, bruh but I don't know any of the context, okay? Maybe something changed? Maybe nothing has changed at all? Mike Pondsmith said that CDPR got/understood his world without a lot of unnecessary changes so at this point I'm taking his word for it. It's why he agreed to work with them.

As far as the disrespect of naming the gang "The Voodoo Boys". people should remember that these are gangs and their naming conventions aren't necessarily sensitive towards society's concerns. And this(last paragraph):

I wonder if they thought that changing the gang from a group of violent cultural appropriators to "authentic" voodoo practitioners was an attempt at being socially aware.
 

Poimandres

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,204
This says more about the people covering the game.
In a game of this magnitude, chances are there will be some good writing and well rounded characters and some embarrassing at best offensive at worst stuff. It's totally possible to have both, and quite likely looking at the Witcher series as an example.

Besides that, there is room for conflicting opinions on quality. Some people find Tarantinos dialogue fantastic, others find it stilted and pretentious. I don't think there is a clear right/wrong there.
 

Feep

Lead Designer, Iridium Studios
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,285
I think if this were coming from another developer besides CDPR, with a known history of regressive outbursts and casual bigotry, I would me more inclined to give it a shot. I think there is a way racism and classism and transphobia could theoretically be handled as an examination of their effects in society, but it's much more likely in this case that CDPR just doesn't care and it won't be integrated in any kind of thoughtful way into the game.

Would be happy to be proven wrong, of course.
 

Khezu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
978
Was hoping since it's a shooter, the gameplay would be decent and I could finally enjoy one of their games.

Oh well.
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
5,304
... and the fact that the Voody Boys in the soruce material are not even Hatians but white guys...
Someone at CDP must have felt really smart making them all Haitan.
Would this depiction have been received well?

Despite the biosculpting, tattoos, feather implants, and bones through their noses and ears, most members of the gang started as average white boys.
 

Mesoian

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,173
Would this depiction have been received well?


Like I said earlier, there are LAYERS of racism revolving around the Voodoo Boys, both in their current and original state. And I doubt the game will dive into either one.
 

grosvenor92

Member
Dec 2, 2017
424
Considering combat is usually the weakest part of CD PR games this isn't that surprising. Won't be surprised if they make changes like they did with The Witcher series

The stuff about poor representation of ethic characters just falls in line with all the other missteps they've had lately . They definitely need to find a way to fix this stuff
 
Feb 16, 2018
818
it's an open-world rpg. the game will be good or bad based on how well they build the world and integrate choices with the story

i think cdpr is in a position to throw a ton of resources at world detail and quests. it would be surprising if what the game is actually about ends up being bad

fwiw, shooting mechanics are pretty hard to screw up (especially in first-person, and especially for single-player). if you need better combat/controls to enjoy a cdpr game, this game has a high probability of achieving that
 
Would this depiction have been received well?


Yeah
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,158
I reached out to several freelance/ media people today and they all said the gunplay was good, and one even said, "...miles beyond any other open-world game." One said that it was hard to get a grasp on how good it was because they were watching and not playing... seems like it is going to be better than okay, if not great.

They all said the game is very gory which has me excited.
Great to hear. That's just an added bonus for me though tbh, it's the world and the stories I can't wait for.
 

Hystzen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
779
Manchester UK
It would not shock me that the twist with Voodoo Boys is they are white people in black bodies like uploading there brain into them trying to appropriate the culture even more extremely. Especially if you look at the original description so V mocking them with that line be amused not shitty but who knows yet
 

PopsMaellard

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,559
Considering combat is usually the weakest part of CD PR games this isn't that surprising. Won't be surprised if they make changes like they did with The Witcher series

The stuff about poor representation of ethic characters just falls in line with all the other missteps they've had lately . They definitely need to find a way to fix this stuff
Good shooting mechanics are arguably easier to pull of than good third person combat. Call of Duty 2 kind of locked down what makes a good feeling shooter (impactful enemy hit animations, notable hitmarker sound, visual hitmarkers, reasonable TTK, weapon specific predictable recoil) , and all CDPR had to do was copy that.

Then again, bad combat is the absolute least of this game’s problems right now.
 

Skade

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,686
It would not shock me that the twist with Voodoo Boys is they are white people in black bodies like uploading there brain into them trying to appropriate the culture even more extremely. Especially if you look at the original description so V mocking them with that line be amused not shitty but who knows yet
Could be interesting to see. But that's like extreme black-facing.

As for now, i'm in wait and see mode for the game. I have concerns, sure, but i want to see with my own eyes. I know internet and i know you can't really trust hot takes of people regarding something you can't see. And context is king regardless or how things can look like.
 

Disco

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,204
U
It would not shock me that the twist with Voodoo Boys is they are white people in black bodies like uploading there brain into them trying to appropriate the culture even more extremely. Especially if you look at the original description so V mocking them with that line be amused not shitty but who knows yet
That would be an incredible twist lol, future tech Get Out. but I think they're playing it straight with the Haitian stereotypes. Really hoping theres some nuance in here but we'll see

Either way everything I hear and see about this game aside from a few questionable issues makes me super hyped for it.
 

Cabbagehead

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,809
Talk about an overreaction. White supremacist fantasy game? Jesus fucking Christ.
Okay now we're in deep end territory.

Not true. There is more.





That's the difference between playing the game and looking. Lots of folks said the combat in W3 looked dynamic in the demos, but yet the opposite is said now.


no
 
Last edited:

Trice

Member
Nov 3, 2018
1,383
Croatia
Wouldn't surprise me if they genuinely put in effort in good faith to include representation such as the Haitians, hired authentic VAs, had them speak Creole which you only get subtitles for IF you have the appropriate upgrade(which is great because it's immersive and shows respect for the language) and it still manages to blow up in their face somehow.

Hopefully some of it gets clearer when we see the E3 demo.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
13,709
Greater Vancouver
Did they ever came out about this certain caracter? And there were more coloured caracters in the game right? How were they handled?
Square Enix PR put out a complete non-apology.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/kotaku.com/that-weirdly-racist-npc-in-deus-ex-human-revolution-5836692/amp
Deus Ex: Human Revolution is a fictional story which reflects the diversity of the world's future population by featuring characters of various cultural and socioeconomic backgrounds. While these characters are meant to portray people living in the year 2027, it has never been our intention to represent any particular ethnic group in a negative light.

And if you're wondering why their feet wasn't held to the fire more over it, people forget just how fucking shit games and games media was about being socially responsible in 2011. Like... people definitely called it out, but it wasn't treated like a big stink around the game.

There were other POC in the game, including black characters but most were minor quest characters. There's a long couple sections where you go to Hengsha, but I am hesitant to comment on how that bit might have aged.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,538
Netherlands
Square Enix PR put out a complete non-apology.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/kotaku.com/that-weirdly-racist-npc-in-deus-ex-human-revolution-5836692/amp
Deus Ex: Human Revolution is a fictional story which reflects the diversity of the world's future population by featuring characters of various cultural and socioeconomic backgrounds. While these characters are meant to portray people living in the year 2027, it has never been our intention to represent any particular ethnic group in a negative light.

And if you're wondering why their feet wasn't held to the fire more over it, people forget just how fucking shit games and games media was about being socially responsible in 2011. Like... people definitely called it out, but it wasn't treated like a big stink around the game.

There were other POC in the game, including black characters but most were minor quest characters. There's a long couple sections where you go to Hengsha, but I am hesitant to comment on how that bit might have aged.
Okay Thanks

I cant remember either tbh. Played the game at release and only remember i loved it... except the bossfights tho.
 

Blade Wolf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,280
Taiwan
What's with CDPR and mediocre, unsatisfyung combat? Do they not know how physics work?
I can tolerate weak melee in Witcher 3 but FPS? At least copy Call of Duty or Apex Legend's gun play, or anything.
 

misho8723

Member
Jan 7, 2018
1,219
Slovakia
Man, one guy says about the combat "I don't know yet" and everyone here is of course overacting like he said "it's the worst combat I have ever seen".. never change Resetera, never change
 

misho8723

Member
Jan 7, 2018
1,219
Slovakia
Keyword "at least"

From the sound of it I doubt Cyberpubk's gunplay is anywhere near those.
Because one preview says that? You have dozens others that say the gunplay is from good to even fantastic, so why do you believe so firmly that one specific preview? And even then, you have 50 minutes gameplay from last year, you can make your opinion based on what you see there.. no one from the journalists played so far the game, so maybe it's best to think for yourself for now, hmmm? We are going to see atleast this new 50 minute gameplay segment in August or September, so again, maybe wait first before you can say how the shooting/gameplay looks and feels? Or is common sense not used in this days?
 

Disco

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,204
Keyword "at least"

From the sound of it I doubt Cyberpubk's gunplay is anywhere near those.
No rpg shooter (more emphasis on the rpg) remotely is. Have you played the deus ex sequels or Fallout games. That's the barometer you should be looking at for this game

And I doubt it's as weak as Fallout, or I should hope not. It will prolly be decent.
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
7,455
Barcelona
It's really surprising that they are not capable of doing good gunplay, there's lots and lots of good recent FPS to use as inspiration.

But tbh I never expected good gameplay from CDPR, they will deliver something decent and people will think that it is the best game ever (they already did) , so maybe they don't think that they need to offer a good gameplay experience.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,989
Theres been a decent number of posts now where people are saying Cyberpunk seems to miss all the deeper themes that makes cyberpunk as a genre. I think its a fair assumption if you've just been watching the trailers and thats it. We've seen very little of the game and what they have decided to show us has been a lot of flash and cool shit without much of a hint of what really makes cyberpunk tick. But if you've been paying attention they've been talking about their intention to do Cyberpunk justice since they've been talking about this game publicly.

First, back in 2013 they did that infamous Power Point presentation where they said CP77 would be first person and third person. Back then they announced their tagline for the game which was "Style Over Substance", which is also the motto for the P&P game itself. Its not so much about the design philosophy but the philosophy that the world of Cyberpunk inhabits. In a place where the individual has so little power in the face of a corporate dystopia AND cybernetic modifications are the norm, how one presents themselves is above all else. Which is why all the characters we've seen so far have been over the top. In a way everyone is performing a more dramatic version of themselves in order to stand out. This approach and style might not jive well with your own personal tastes, but at least they're going for it.

Then theres been interview after interview where people from different parts of the team have said again and again how much they're not shying away from cyberpunk's themes. Even Keanu Reeves himself, THE cyberpunk actor, has spoken about the interesting questions and answers the game makes you play out.
Even in the gameplay trailer from last year we see hints of cyberpunk dystopia. The naked woman you save has "Trauma Team Platinum" status. Which is literally a private ambulance that saves you only if you have the money to dish out, meaning only the rich can get proper medical treatment in this world.
Its not like CDPR are new to this RPG thing either. TW3 didn't sell because CDPR got lucky. They have a reputation and its been built on how damn good they are at world-building with attention to detail. TW1 wasn't known for its graphics, it damn sure wasn't known for its combat, it was its writing and how well realized their worlds are.
 
OP
OP
derFeef

derFeef

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,537
Austria
NO one is complaining about what Cyberpunk is and what the themes are. We are critizsing the parts of the game that we saw because they seem to miss the mark of how they present it.
 

Fiery Phoenix

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,145
Theres been a decent number of posts now where people are saying Cyberpunk seems to miss all the deeper themes that makes cyberpunk as a genre. I think its a fair assumption if you've just been watching the trailers and thats it. We've seen very little of the game and what they have decided to show us has been a lot of flash and cool shit without much of a hint of what really makes cyberpunk tick. But if you've been paying attention they've been talking about their intention to do Cyberpunk justice since they've been talking about this game publicly.

First, back in 2013 they did that infamous Power Point presentation where they said CP77 would be first person and third person. Back then they announced their tagline for the game which was "Style Over Substance", which is also the motto for the P&P game itself. Its not so much about the design philosophy but the philosophy that the world of Cyberpunk inhabits. In a place where the individual has so little power in the face of a corporate dystopia AND cybernetic modifications are the norm, how one presents themselves is above all else. Which is why all the characters we've seen so far have been over the top. In a way everyone is performing a more dramatic version of themselves in order to stand out. This approach and style might not jive well with your own personal tastes, but at least they're going for it.

Then theres been interview after interview where people from different parts of the team have said again and again how much they're not shying away from cyberpunk's themes. Even Keanu Reeves himself, THE cyberpunk actor, has spoken about the interesting questions and answers the game makes you play out.
Even in the gameplay trailer from last year we see hints of cyberpunk dystopia. The naked woman you save has "Trauma Team Platinum" status. Which is literally a private ambulance that saves you only if you have the money to dish out, meaning only the rich can get proper medical treatment in this world.
Its not like CDPR are new to this RPG thing either. TW3 didn't sell because CDPR got lucky. They have a reputation and its been built on how damn good they are at world-building with attention to detail. TW1 wasn't known for its graphics, it damn sure wasn't known for its combat, it was its writing and how well realized their worlds are.
I think you make a good point. The problem is the traditional cyberpunk themes don’t sell, but the flash and cool they’ve been showing does. The same goes for the cover art.

This is actually indicative of CDPR’s marketing knowhow. They know what sells.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,989
NO one is complaining about what Cyberpunk is and what the themes are. We are critizsing the parts of the game that we saw because they seem to miss the mark of how they present it.


This has been posted a few times as criticism that Cyberpunk is missing the point. I was directly talking to these folks.
If you feel what has been shown of the game has been off taste to you, then I'm not gonna argue against you and what your own personal line is, I respect it. But again, CDPR is known for attention to detail. So I, personally, am willing to wait and see what the fully realized world will be.
 

xJavontax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
726
Illinois
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything that was quoted? That tweet you seem to reference may seem harsh, but I don't feel competent on commenting how that person feels seeing the pictures.
Seems more than harsh. As a black man that HAS been targeted both by cops and peers for my appearance (there have been numerous occasions where I’ve been stopped by a cop because “I look like the guy that did it”), jumping to conclusions like that is straight up fear mongering. A point would be made if you ONLY shot PoC in the game, or if you were wearing a white hood, but as it stands sharing shit like that is ridiculous
 

Fjordson

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,467
This is a small thing within the overall scope of the demo shown, but the response by V when speaking to one of the Voodoo Boys of "who is dey?", like sarcastically referring to their accent, seems so weird. At least on paper.

It's like if in the original Blade Runner, when the noodle stand cook tells Deckard in his thick accent "He say you Blade Runner!" and Deckard had responded with "What's a Braid Runner?".