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RPS: Cyberpunk 2077's E3 demo has weak gunplay and unimaginative stereotypes
- Thread starter derFeef
- Start date
If that 20 minute video of Bloodlines 2 is representative, it is going to be even more of a mess than 2077.
So the same things Eurogamer brought up... just means what now? This is a horrible take.
First, check your tone.
Second, while the tabletop has problems, it's greatly misinterpreted in the game from what we see.
Third, fiction can be criticized. Hell my Avatar is HPL, who's blatant racism and xenophobia is well know. I read and like his work but can still think is highly problematic - but thankfully is handled better nowadays and there are books inspired by his view and still work with his imaginations.
You can do better and not just "bro it up" in a hamfisted way.
Thank you for bringing that interview to light, I'm glad that someone did it at all. It's really interesting to hear the stance of someone who has worked so long in the industry, especially in her unique position.
Sometimes I feel like there's a shared anxiety about being in the dark about someone's intentions or thoughts in these kinds of issues. Although I don't seek to invalidate anyone's readings of this imagery, it always feels like we'd know so much more if the creator (In this case, CDPR) was more vocal about their visions and intentions for their creation. Otherwise, some of us want to assume the worst because we stand against the implications we see, or we want to assume the best or dismiss things so that we don't have to think about the implications.
I would very much like to hear CDPR's thoughts on gender, race, transhumanism, etc. and what that means for their vision of Cyberpunk. I don't know if they have plans for that, but engaging in those topics at all would probably be a more welcoming step for understanding than the more accepted radio silence and "We don't talk about that kind of stuff but it's in our games somehow" that game developers and companies seem to want most times.
OT: I usually just read through these kinds of threads because I don't know if my opinion is very valuable, or maybe I'm afraid that my opinion won't be shared by other people. And for that reason, I tend to spout some pretty non-committal stuff and just don't end up posting it.
At the end of the day it's the issue that people don't want their race to be treated like a joke. I'm even a little surprised that not only was this faction originally "white boys" in the original Cyberpunk lore, but that they changed it the way that they did.
I must admit, it's far easier to assume that CDPR is tactless and potentially offending on purpose with their history. I don't feel comfortable making those kinds of assumptions without more context of the game, but I definitely respect that perspective. As many point out, it's the difference between just having something "in your game" and condoning/approving of it.
FFS! This looking to be my first ever CDPR experience, and now all of this shit... I should be excited, but now I don't even know.
Not really as proliferation of things like mechanical enhancements and technomancy basically blur what it is to be human. In a truly cyberpunk future, people wouldn't have time to worry about what your race is because they'd be more concerned about whether or not the augments you can see are an indication of whether or not they're going to murder you. It's the crux of the transhumanist argument.
But I doubt the game is going to explore that in any meaningful way.
Eh, it's both, but you're right. It's more classism because the people in the majority of these stories don't want to be where they are, they want to be "over there" as "over there" are usually depicted as ideal places to live and thrive.
not shocked at all given how the dialogue in the trailer sounded like it was written by a teenage edgelord
I mean, real talk. Is this ad trying to be interesting flavor text for a cyberpunk dystopian society, or is it "that girl has a dick, ha ha".
Like, the idea of gene manipulation and gender splicing is a very interesting thing to explore in this type of setting...but you better handle it with care because that is a whole can of worms that most CIS white dudes are not equip to open.
This game has become a real monkey's paw deal. A big budget open world Cyberpunk RPG is basically dream game material for me and yet the more we hear about this the more I'm put off by it.
I can deal with bad gameplay but extremely uncomfortable stereotyping and their garbage transphobic tweets are indefensible
I can deal with bad gameplay but extremely uncomfortable stereotyping and their garbage transphobic tweets are indefensible
I mean, the literal creator of the p&p is apparently working pretty intimately with them on this. It's one thing to criticize all this stuff for what it seek to portray. It's quite another to pretend that this isn't what cyberpunk is.
It's like all sense of subtlety went out the window from their witcher writing
From looking at the game I can't say the gunplay is any worse than being serviceable
All it needs to be imo
The witcher had subtly?
Oh I'd say the only way it can get away with just being serviceable is if the rest of that world is an amazing thing to explore and interact with.
And if it's not...god help them.
Feel s like a case of, "let's have this vision of Cyberpunk only taken from the most famous sources", even if they are 20-30 years old.
So it is works like The Diamond Age or Snow Crash which are the blueprint, but you can say they are outdated, since they saw a future that was even more racist than our own. Especially when the setting of the Diamond Age is a society culturally regressing with the help of technology.
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Of course people focus on the gunplay and not the stereotyping. Because CDPR have shown their ass on that front multiple times with very little done to try and change people's perception. And so everyone who LOVES CDPR and wants to get the game will focus on gunplay because they know whatever bs they throw out to defend the stereotyping will be flimsy at best.
I don't see why just because the guy playing either sucked or the controller settings were fucked. I meant more in the vain of social issues anyways.
I mean the fun think about Cyberpunk as a genre, or rather as a structure, is that we can bolt on as much present day politics as we feel is necessary. I wouldn't call the ideals from some of the older instances outdated, it's just that their targets have switched. If you were trying to stay relevant to today's fears and woes, I'd say that there would be a far more fearful aspect of a spanish take over rather than an asian one, and things like birth rates would be front and center rather than corporate espionage.
So much of 2077 seems like it's not even cribbing from PK Dick, but specifically blade runner and Akira and that's....fine? But the more we find out about the game, the less it seems like a real nuanced cyberpunk story and the more it feels like GTA6: THE FUTURE.
Gunplay is surprising considering they brought in Remedy people specifically for the combat if I recall. But maybe the translation of straight up shooter to rpg requires certain modifications.
By focusing less on issues of the moment and more on issues of the future.
Or, even better, taking the issues of the moment an using futurisms to change how we think about said issues. It would be really sad if 2077 takes the concept of being able to freely and effortless change your biological sex and how that relates to internal gender, and relegate it to a quick bad joke.
Please have good gunplay. I know it's not a shooter but you still shoot and it should feel good. *fingers crossed*
First of all, you REEEEEEAAALLY need to watch the video. Your assumption can't possibly be based on what was heard...
I've been around black women, including my mother, for 30 years. I've been around black people for 30 years. I've been all over the states, and have traveled abroad, and have literally never heard any black person period talk ***THAT*** way outside of stereotypical (and alot of the time, old) movies made by white people. I don't need to "speak for all black women", when my wife and every black woman I've shown that video to thus far finds it aggressively offensive...
Thing is it's maybe distasteful for being so blatantly sexual but even if the person is trans including them would not be phobia sexist if anything else
So, are you ignoring the second part of the the title or are you not worried about that either?
If so, what is the commentary here, then? "We can be racist and transphobic because it's cyberpunk"?
With actual good writing.
Hint: They got so big because they don't care, or even worse, enforce it.
It is if they're included solely for fetishism though, which this...in a vacuum and without context, certainly is.
All we can hope is that CDPR has a plan for this. I just don't think they do and did it for "funny hahas".
Lowered expectations are fine. Maybe it's because I like action games just as much as RPGs. The best of both worlds is a rare breed and I want more of that.
Feel like we need a thread reboot..
By having good writing instead of appealing to the lowest denominator. So far the most commentary we've seen from the game is a single line about life insurance costs.
Depicting racism doesn't mean that you need to make characters into offensive stereotypes. In fact, if you want to seriously tackle topics such as racism, you shouldn't use one-dimensional stereotypes for actual characters. If you're playing stereotypes straight you're not depicting or tackling racism, you're just being racist.
2077 looks to me like the Sprawl trilogy on steroids, basically, along with some aspects of other popular CP properties thrown in. Including all the edgy and stereotypical aspects of Gibson's work which were ok at the time but now can feel pretty outdated if you just transplant them to your own setting.
But this is what a dystopian world mean to be, a place full of bad pll, bad choices, no respect, stupidit, bigotry and goes on, the "bad joke" is part od the world as a dystopian one
hopefully the game ll have some good messagem behind all this madness
So this game look like another Witcher 3, awesome in everything except the combat. I remember forcing myself completing the expansion because I got tired of the game play in Witcher 3
I mean if the shoe fits. Gwent and putting the game on easy got me through. Otherwise forgettable gameplay. But damn that world.
Waypoint impressions.
Austin Walker quite eloquently summarises my feelings pretty well about the game (at 3hrs:43mins), wanting to be excited about something that hits so many of my personal likes and interest points but there is that lingering feeling of the next shitty thing being right around the corner.
Oh yeah. At this point, they don't even tried to hide it. It is awful.
Time for journalist of big websites to do their jobs here.