The gunplay in last years demo looked pretty good. But I don't play RPG's for combat gameplay. I play them for immersive worlds I can get lost in and well crafted quests and I have no doubt Cyberpunk will be great in that regards.
Pretty much my stance on it. They're playing in muddy water but if you also avoid it and or have to retrofit everything in a nice bow? then where's the commentary...I think with a setting/game like the Witcher, there's a long leash of cultural representation. Like, the main character exists as a sort of pariah outside of society, so for him to be weird in some way ... questioning culture or doing something unacceptable, I think there's greater acceptance there. Also when it comes to a medieval fantasy world similar to Eastern/Slavic Europe, there's less opportunity to fuck something up.
Cyberpunk throws a wrench into that because if you inexplicably leave out other cultures from the game other than like ... white, eurocentric culture, then they'll rightly be criticized for not having any diverse representation in the game, but then if they do, then they actually have to do it well and the sort of cultural ignorance nearing on supremacy that pervades the community where CDPR develops in ... eh, they're entering touchy territory. I'm not saying all Poles, Slavs, or what have you, are ignorant of other cultures or supremacists for their own, but ... as a Polish American, we've got some issues with both here.
Uhhh, you don't need to make an offensive game (to the audience) just to be "awesome".Eh what? I can't like The game? Just cause some reporter didn't like the gun play or the dystopian setting with all its offensive stuff, I'm not going to stop liking what I see.
This game looks massive and awesome in every way
I mean they could always educate themselves by reading works of and talking to people who have extensively studied the subject? These companies do a ton of research into a million different things. Why not expect them to include this sort of stuff in that especially in a game dealing with a Cyberpunk setting. It's not exactly a huge ask. Fuck, just watch a few hours of Nick Cannon's Youtube show and even that tiny bit of effort ought to be enough to not be a complete fucking idiot in terms of racist garbage in your game. The internet exists. Not being stupid isn't as hard as some people try to make it seem.I think with a setting/game like the Witcher, there's a long leash of cultural representation. Like, the main character exists as a sort of pariah outside of society, so for him to be weird in some way ... questioning culture or doing something unacceptable, I think there's greater acceptance there. Also when it comes to a medieval fantasy world similar to Eastern/Slavic Europe, there's less opportunity to fuck something up.
Cyberpunk throws a wrench into that because if you inexplicably leave out other cultures from the game other than like ... white, eurocentric culture, then they'll rightly be criticized for not having any diverse representation in the game, but then if they do, then they actually have to do it well and the sort of cultural ignorance nearing on supremacy that pervades the community where CDPR develops in ... eh, they're entering touchy territory. I'm not saying all Poles, Slavs, or what have you, are ignorant of other cultures or supremacists for their own, but ... as a Polish American, we've got some issues with both here.
Eh what? I can't like The game? Just cause some reporter didn't like the gun play or the dystopian setting with all its offensive stuff, I'm not going to stop liking what I see.
This game looks massive and awesome in every way
I think the hypothetical question here might be if minorities are depicted in traditionally racist ways while whites are depicted as "normal," though still horrible criminals. Then the it's not racist, everyone's shitty argument dies on the vine.
And even if it's equally balanced stereotyping, it's like "if the story is about the presence of racism in a chaotic dystopia, why are you making the characters racist caricatures instead of just being racist people? Why is this the language of your commentary?"
Note: I have no idea if this is going on in Cyberpunk. I haven't seen enough of the story.
I mean they could always educate themselves by reading works of and talking to people who have extensively studied the subject? These companies do a ton of research into a million different things. Why not expect them to include this sort of stuff in that especially in a game dealing with a Cyberpunk setting. It's not exactly a huge ask. Fuck, just watch a few hours of Nick Cannon's Youtube show and even that tiny bit of effort ought to be enough to not be a complete fucking idiot in terms of racist garbage in your game. The internet exists. Not being stupid isn't as hard as some people try to make it seem.
As a Haitian American, I am cringing at the eye-rolling gang name of "the Voodoo Boys." The tone of the tweet isn't doing me any favors either.
I mean that's not to say that you can't kind of tell that a game has janky, gun play or driving mechanics.Very very good point.
Pertinent as it gets in this case, think we need to all hold off until we play and feel it.
I actually remember thinking the gunplay looked just "ok" in the Destiny reveal trailers now that I think about it...hmm, great point!!
If I understood it correctly from Cyberpunk 2020 the Voodoo boys are mostly white people who are so obsessed with Haitian culture, they use body modifications to look black and use all the stereotypes to act as the gang, because they actually do not know much about the culture themselves.
If I understood it correctly from Cyberpunk 2020 the Voodoo boys are mostly white people who are so obsessed with Haitian culture, they use body modifications to look black and use all the stereotypes to act as the gang, because they actually do not know much about the culture themselves.
That's part of the reason why I was cringing. The original idea actually had me fascinated, since I could see how a pre-dominantly white gang look and appropriate Haitian culture in a cyberpunk setting. Making them actual Haitians isn't even "on the nose" with subtlety, it's the equivalent of using a hammer to smash your nose and face in.
Nah I got you. Was railing more about the general point than what you specifically posted. I'm disappointed that this stuff is happening on their end when it's honestly so easily solved. I'm a pretty dumb motherfucker honestly and even I understand basic shit from actively listening and participating in discussions that are outside of my own life experience. I'm sure well-paid writers on a huge video game production can do at least 25% of that which should be enough to not have the fucking "voodoo boys" gang in their game.Yeah, exactly. And I don't think they're taking it very seriously. Or at least, I don't think they're making a genuine attempt. I think with the Witcher they had an escape-hatch of "It's medieval Prussian fantasy setting!" (or whatever), so they could easily define their own rules and sort of ... evade a more critical lens. Now, they're losing that escape-hatch but I don't think they're willing to make a very genuine attempt at doing things the right way.
*Edit*
Oh, and I don't want to make it seem like my post was explaining it away or making excuses for htem. I was trying to show how I don't think they're taking accurate cultural representation seriously. I might not have made that clear so I'm going to edit my last post to make it more obvious
People legitimately ignoring comments made by the developer is just hilarious.
The gang isn't just black people. And what if your character is also black? Does it still seem like a white supremacists fan fic to you?
Can we stop relying on conjecture and look for evidence first, like for instance waiting until the game fucking comes out.
This game is steeped in culture and different people along with different languages. It's different from Witcher.
It's a "free city" and a melting pot. Stop getting angry over nothing. Wait until you actually see what you want to get offended by.
Era needs to start recognizing extremism and just how many people are unreasonable and illogical on here.
You're going to kill black, white, brown, green, and orange people. You're going to get offended and you're going to offend others in the game. Why? Because you're in a fucking awful hellscape. You can't be in a hellscape without awful things happening and awful people being around. Also, the language is going to be pretty over the top childish and full of curse words because that's Mike Pondsmith's vision of his game he created over 30 years ago.
... and the fact that the Voody Boys in the soruce material are not even Hatians but white guys...
Someone at CDP must have felt really smart making them all Haitan.
Well I'm glad you get to decide for others what counts as "nothing". Calm the fuck down and stop trying to shut down discussion just because you're not interested in it.
It's like the less information there is, the bigger the outrage. The actual social/racial mix of the story is still pretty much up in the air, and people are already convinced it's a genocide simulator.
People legitimately ignoring comments made by the developer is just hilarious.
The gang isn't just black people. And what if your character is also black? Does it still seem like a white supremacists fan fic to you?
Can we stop relying on conjecture and look for evidence first, like for instance waiting until the game fucking comes out.
This game is steeped in culture and different people along with different languages. It's different from Witcher.
It's a "free city" and a melting pot. Stop getting angry over nothing. Wait until you actually see what you want to get offended by.
Era needs to start recognizing extremism and just how many people are unreasonable and illogical on here.
You're going to kill black, white, brown, green, and orange people. You're going to get offended and you're going to offend others in the game. Why? Because you're in a fucking awful hellscape. You can't be in a hellscape without awful things happening and awful people being around. Also, the language is going to be pretty over the top childish and full of curse words because that's Mike Pondsmith's vision of his game he created over 30 years ago.
It's like the less information there is, the bigger the outrage. The actual social/racial mix of the story is still pretty much up in the air, and people are already convinced it's a genocide simulator.
People legitimately ignoring comments made by the developer is just hilarious.
The gang isn't just black people. And what if your character is also black? Does it still seem like a white supremacists fan fic to you?
Can we stop relying on conjecture and look for evidence first, like for instance waiting until the game fucking comes out.
This game is steeped in culture and different people along with different languages. It's different from Witcher.
It's a "free city" and a melting pot. Stop getting angry over nothing. Wait until you actually see what you want to get offended by.
Era needs to start recognizing extremism and just how many people are unreasonable and illogical on here.
You're going to kill black, white, brown, green, and orange people. You're going to get offended and you're going to offend others in the game. Why? Because you're in a fucking awful hellscape. You can't be in a hellscape without awful things happening and awful people being around. Also, the language is going to be pretty over the top childish and full of curse words because that's Mike Pondsmith's vision of his game he created over 30 years ago.
Well I'm glad you get to decide for others what counts as "nothing". Calm the fuck down and stop trying to shut down discussion just because you're not interested in it.
Nothing is fucking not having the game in front of you and listening to something off handed by someone who is stating something that isn't totally accurate according to a developer's statement about the gang, way to read everything else.
From Eurogamer:
`The population is now largely black, and the major language is largely Haitian Creole. We're here to meet a man called Placide, of the Voodoo Boys gang, for a mission. We search for him in a nearby church, and an NPC, named as "Poor Man", comes up to us. There is some questionable dialogue - or rather, questionable subtitling - where the man's thick Creole accent is also written out in the subtitles, "they" as "dey" and "the" as "da" or "de". This is the same for nearly all of the Voodoo Boys and people of this area, and actully after you unlock a chip in-game that translates launguage for you, your software presents it as such - "la" in a foreign language still "da" in English. Later on, Placide mentions "they are coming", or something of that ilk, and our white male character asks "who is "dey"?".`
I'm real glad you all are here to tell both transgender people and people of color that they're "overreacting". And that you are praising yourself for being the 'reasonable' party.
/s in case it wasn't obvious.
In what sense? I'm pretty sure that if the game does a good job of representing social issues people will have no problem taking back what they say and enjoying the game on its own merits. Right now, we only have marketing to go on and the marketing has been spotty at best. Are we supposed to be time traveling mind readers or something? I don't get it.
Nothing is fucking not having the game in front of you and listening to something off handed by someone who is stating something that isn't totally accurate according to a developer's statement about the gang, way to read everything else.
Can you link to the devs saying the Voodoo Boys are the same as in the source material? I haven't seen anything yet.
You mean about The Animals? The ones you fight against in the demo who it was claimed were all black people and you were gunning them down in a white supremacist dream scenario?
"As for The Animals, if you play through the game you'll see that they're not mostly black people, it's mixed." "
In what sense? I'm pretty sure that if the game does a good job of representing social issues people will have no problem taking back what they say and enjoying the game on its own merits. Right now, we only have marketing to go on and the marketing has been spotty at best. Are we supposed to be time traveling mind readers or something? I don't get it.
Ah, I completely agree with you on that. I'm hopeful that they will steer this ship right because I have a huge passion for the social aspects of this setting but I'm not convinced that CDPR has done what they need to as of yet. Glad to be proven wrong once it's out, of course.I just see a lot of people giving CDPR a lot of credit when it comes to some of the themes in this game and, now, here, a year out, I ask why, looking at their history.
But yeah, we'll see. Time will tell.
No, I mean the Voodoo Boys, who in the tabletop game were white people that kind of played stereotypes of savage Haitians. And in the game are now, apparently, black.
You brought up 'genre staples' and 'hardcore racial stereotypes'. Not to speak on their behalf, but that doesn't seem to be what they were asking.
Regardless, my issue is, you said that racism 'would not' be prominent in a transhuman society. While that's certainly one way to build your cyberpunk setting, one does not automatically negate the other. Given Science/Speculative Fiction is invariably about the present through the 'safer' lens of a speculated future, it is perfectly within its remit to deal with one, the other or both.
See some posts above, Eurogamer threadmark.I know nothing about that. If they were white in the source material I'm pretty sure there are white people in the gang in the game as well but from what I've seen the ones that were talked about were black. Gameplay that is written about should be revealed in two months so we'll know more by then
I'm real glad you all are here to tell both transgender people and people of color that they're "overreacting". And that you are praising yourself for being the 'reasonable' party.
/s in case it wasn't obvious.
The poster i was replying to implied that racism and slurs would be baked into the dystopian cyberpunk scenario by default, which is why i was bringing up that Racism and racial stereotypes are not staples of Cyberpunk, obviously authors are free to write them, but it's not a must have feature of the genre.
It was my mistake to imply, one form of discrimination would override the other one, what i meant to say was that traditional realistic racism would take a back seat to the new divisions, tensions and bigotry introduced by transhumanism themes.
No, I mean the Voodoo Boys, who in the tabletop game were white people that kind of played stereotypes of savage Haitians. And in the game are now, apparently, black.
You are quite pathetic. How many times are you going to announce your departure only to waddle back in?
About weak gunplay, I don't know... CDProjekt Red isn't well known for a good combat, but the universe around
Don't just take one outlet's hot take as gospel: a lot of other spots said gunplay looked great, and thought the characterization was good.
Not to mention that was 2020 and now it's 2077, many things might have changed, we lack context IMO.They're also cyberspace nuts, whereas in the tabletop game they were psycho frat boys. So I think the lore has been changed to be completely different.