Maybe that xenophobia in cyberpunk has merit after all. First Deus Ex, now this.
Was this in HR? How the fuck do I not remember this? JESUS
Maybe that xenophobia in cyberpunk has merit after all. First Deus Ex, now this.
Images don't actually convey how bad it was. Just watch this.
This is what this game has boiled down to for me. Defenders dismissing the complaints about the regressive undercurrent of CDPR and Cyberpunk 2077 because they're excited about the shiny toy.
The More I learn about this game the More I'm disappointed by it. Not only is their a transphobic ad in the game but their treatment of PoC is and so far. Seriously the Voodoo Boys being white in the tabletop game but mostly Black in the video game is just so stupid and offensive.Clarification on the Voody Boys issue.
Description of the gang in the tabletop RPG:
Representation of the gang in the 2077 game:
Wait really? Uh..that's interesting. And not in a good way.... and the fact that the Voody Boys in the soruce material are not even Hatians but white guys...
Someone at CDP must have felt really smart making them all Haitan.
That's not in Cyberpunk I think.If they can augment their bodies to look black how does anyone know they're not?
Well I found this in just a few seconds:That's not in Cyberpunk I think.
And if even, should everything be excusable because the setting allows it?
Yes. I posted that before even. What do you mean exactly?Well I found this in just a few seconds:
"Despite the biosculpting, tattoos, feather implants, and bones through their noses and ears, most members of the gang started as average white boys. Most are male, though female members exist as well. The females are often much worse, as they have twice as much to prove as the males. "
And then there's this too:
"This is a terrorist gang of drug dealers. They engage in weird magic rituals, and deal non-synthetic drugs to students near the University. Sadistic and pitiless, they will kill, torture, and rape for any reason or no reason at all. Victims will sometimes be warned with Chicken blood and feathers on their doorstep. Or not. Their motives and practices have no consistency. Mutilating and maiming victims is common, as is dissecting their body parts for rituals or to use to inspire terror. "
From the wiki.
This is going to get ignored because it doesn't play into the narrative that the posters wantPeople legitimately ignoring comments made by the developer is just hilarious.
The gang isn't just black people. And what if your character is also black? Does it still seem like a white supremacists fan fic to you?
Can we stop relying on conjecture and look for evidence first, like for instance waiting until the game fucking comes out.
This game is steeped in culture and different people along with different languages. It's different from Witcher.
It's a "free city" and a melting pot. Stop getting angry over nothing. Wait until you actually see what you want to get offended by.
Era needs to start recognizing extremism and just how many people are unreasonable and illogical on here.
You're going to kill black, white, brown, green, and orange people. You're going to get offended and you're going to offend others in the game. Why? Because you're in a fucking awful hellscape. You can't be in a hellscape without awful things happening and awful people being around. Also, the language is going to be pretty over the top childish and full of curse words because that's Mike Pondsmith's vision of his game he created over 30 years ago.
It's not getting ignored but it's also waving away the issues just because "the game is not out". What's wrong with criticizing what the see and read now?This is going to get ignored because it doesn't play into the narrative that the posters want
Same as the people ignoring the issues with all of this or continue to try and handwave it away.This is going to get ignored because it doesn't play into the narrative that the posters want
Calling it a "white supremacist fantasy" because the enemies happen to be black is straight up hyperbole. We've seen V kill white enemies too.It's not getting ignored but it's also waving away the issues just because "the game is not out". What's wrong with criticizing what the see and read now?
Not true. There is more.To be fair RPS is only outlet thus far to say gunplay looks weak. Every another outlet seemed to be impressed with gunplay and combat overall.
"It's incredibly hard to say without actually feeling it, of course, but the gunplay here did look a little stiff. "
" In this case, far from isolated, we had the distinct impression that the trajectories of the blows, as well as the movement of the weapon and the subsequent collisions, were far from the technical levels reached elsewhere by the title and, more generally, by the current standard of the videogame panorama. A defect that, as far as the battle brought into the field a good range of interesting dynamics (different attack patterns and weak points to hit), it significantly affected the perceived enjoyment of the action on screen. Findings that also involve gunplay, characterized by animations, at present, still to be finished. Impressions a little different from those raised by the first demo shown by the team, with a more intense and engaging combative dynamism. There is a lack of climbing on the walls with blade blows seen in the first trailer, as well as smart weapons and many contextual animations, in the context of significantly more static gunfights."
People keep saying that but it's wrong. They're mostly white guys; not all of them.Wait really? Uh..that's interesting. And not in a good way.
This also is making me think back to the white corporate lady with the silent black bodyguard from last year's demo.
I'd love for this all to be an overreaction because I've been dreaming of an open-world cyberpunk game for years, but I'm worried.
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything that was quoted? That tweet you seem to reference may seem harsh, but I don't feel competent on commenting how that person feels seeing the pictures.Calling it a "white supremacist fantasy" because the enemies happen to be black is straight up hyperbole. We've seen V kill white enemies too.
Theres criticizing and then there's fear-mongering.
Even then, that still feels weird.People keep saying that but it's wrong. They're mostly white guys; not all of them.
That's not in Cyberpunk I think.
And if even, should everything be excusable because the setting allows it?
Fair point on Pondsmith. One has to assume CDPR's vision jives with his. And I won't suggest that CDPR or Pondsmith have to alter that vision.I guess all the "CDPR doesn't understand cyberpunk" people also think the creator of Cyberpunk 2020 doesn't understand cyberpunk, because he's on the project.
It feels like a bunch of people want their own game rather than what already exists in the well-established Cyberpunk 2020 setting.
I don't think he'd work with CDPR if their visions didn't match.Fair point on Pondsmith. One has to assume CDPR's vision jives with his. And I won't suggest that CDPR or Pondsmith have to alter that vision.
But considering the tabletop game will be 30 years old by the time this game is out, and that this is set decades after the tabletop game, I don't think some advancement / evolution in the setting would hurt.
It's seeming like that. Which again, fair play, I won't say they have to change anything to please me.We've already seen the setting advance, but I think the people expecting this to make cyberpunk into post-modern cyberpunk set themselves up for disappointment. This is based around classic cyberpunk tropes not about reinventing it.
Is this supposed to make what they did less racist, all they did is make a mostly white gang now mostly black. Not only are perpetuating racist stereotypes of black people but they're also calling a Haitian group Voodoo Boys. They should have just kept them mostly white instead of creating this mess.People keep saying that but it's wrong. They're mostly white guys; not all of them.
If they were keeping accurate to the tabletop game the Voodoo Boys would be mostly white and let's not act like the tabletop game did not have it's own problems.I guess all the "CDPR doesn't understand cyberpunk" people also think the creator of Cyberpunk 2020 doesn't understand cyberpunk, because he's on the project.
It feels like a bunch of people want their own game rather than what already exists in the well-established Cyberpunk 2020 setting.
There's plenty of amazing games that take themes, settings and genres to new levels. Stuff like VA-11 HALL-A for cyberpunk. AAA will always take fewer risks than smaller games can.It's seeming like that. Which again, fair play, I won't say they have to change anything to please me.
But it is a little disappointing given how much time has passed and where we are these days as a society.
It's seeming like that. Which again, fair play, I won't say they have to change anything to please me.
But it is a little disappointing given how much time has passed and where we are these days as a society.
Is this supposed to make what they did less racist, all they did is make a mostly white gang now mostly black. Not only are perpetuating racist stereotypes of black people but they're also calling a Haitian group Voodoo Boys. They should have just kept them mostly white instead of creating this mess.
As a PoC I definitely find this offensive and if you can't how this is racist/offensive than....
If they were keeping accurate to the tabletop game the Voodoo Boys would be mostly white and let's not act like the tabletop game did not have it's own problems.
This is very true. I love how in Shadowrun they keep having to low-key retcon current huge corporations like Amazon, Apple, Microsoft as long-lost subsidiaries of the current Shadowrun megacorps or how they had to redo the whole setting because ubiquitous wireless connections became a thing in the real world.In many ways "classic" cyberpunk feels so dated these days that its largely like watching an action film from the 80's/90's (or the slavish modern homages to same). A product of its time. I suppose its inevitable as any speculative fiction set in the near future is obviously going to be heavily impacted by the radical speed of technological innovation. Classic cyberpunk sort of feels like planetary romance or ray guns and rocket ships, you can enjoy it for what it is but its all very much "genre work".
I'm black. I'm not arguing anything. I'm just pointing out a factual error that I think was based on the scan that I posted earlier in the thread. I have no idea what the racial makeup of the Voodoo boys is in the game. We'd probably have to see more than a cut scene or two to know so I won't form an opinion on that based on this.
RDR 2 had weak gunplay overall and yet it's hailed as the GOTG by many here so it just depends on the person.I don't get how you can have weak gunplay, but every Witcher game has abysmal combat so go figure.
Like...you do realize that the reason why cyberpunk has Chinese/Japanese takeovers of western companies was because of the then fear of China/Japan (depending on the decade) taking over via business warfare? That element was never in there just because "it was cool"
As history has shown creators have never gotten their own IP wrong. Not even once. Nope never.I guess all the "CDPR doesn't understand cyberpunk" people also think the creator of Cyberpunk 2020 doesn't understand cyberpunk, because he's on the project.
It feels like a bunch of people want their own game rather than what already exists in the well-established Cyberpunk 2020 setting.
Yeah, bruh but I don't know any of the context, okay? Maybe something changed? Maybe nothing has changed at all? Mike Pondsmith said that CDPR got/understood his world without a lot of unnecessary changes so at this point I'm taking his word for it. It's why he agreed to work with them.Not sure if that is representative of that cutscene, but that person on the right does not look like a "white boy dressed as a Voodoo person"
Guess they should have assembled a panel of the world's finest cyberpunk professors and had weekly reviews. For some people here, it's never enough.As history has shown creators have never gotten their own IP wrong. Not even once. Nope never.
I reached out to several freelance/ media people today and they all said the gunplay was good, and one even said, "...miles beyond any other open-world game." One said that it was hard to get a grasp on how good it was because they were watching and not playing... seems like it is going to be better than okay, if not great.I can live with the guns not being great, that isn't what I'm here for.
i can't wait for the endless "gunplay sucks" comments for years after launch. everyone loves doing it for Witcher 3 "combat sucks". lol
Thanks for not acknowledging my post!👍Guess they should have assembled a panel of the world's finest cyberpunk professors and had weekly reviews. For some people here, it's never enough.
If having the actual creator of the (specific) setting along with a AAA studio isn't good enough for you, I'm not really sure what to tell you.
Has been posted before, by me even. The source material is what it is, but CDP choose to handle it differently within the game.Yeah, bruh but I don't know any of the context, okay? Maybe something changed? Maybe nothing has changed at all? Mike Pondsmith said that CDPR got/understood his world without a lot of unnecessary changes so at this point I'm taking his word for it. It's why he agreed to work with them.
As far as the disrespect of naming the gang "The Voodoo Boys". people should remember that these are gangs and their naming conventions aren't necessarily sensitive towards society's concerns. And this(last paragraph):