Just because the creator is there doesn't magical absolve them of fucking up. See J.K Rowling and George Lucas.
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RPS: Cyberpunk 2077's E3 demo has weak gunplay and unimaginative stereotypes
- Thread starter derFeef
- Start date
If the still "get the setting wrong" I think it's time to take a deep look at your own understanding of the genre.
Whether the game itself is good depends on many other factors.
There is doing the genre justice, and then there is representing the genre by not understanding it and using a hamfisted, stereotypical way of doing it.
lmao policing a black man's tone. How dare you. There is nothing offensive, or no offense meant, by 'bruh.' I used it to show that I DON"T have an attitude holy shit.
so true.
I think these guys are one of the most overhyped studios ever and I own all of their games Witcher 1, 2, 3 (on PC and PS4). Totally overhyped.
And what's the gold standard that we're going to compare it to? Dragonfall? Deus Ex? Snow Crash? Altered Carbon?
I wonder if they thought that changing the gang from a group of violent cultural appropriators to "authentic" voodoo practitioners was an attempt at being socially aware.Yeah, bruh but I don't know any of the context, okay? Maybe something changed? Maybe nothing has changed at all? Mike Pondsmith said that CDPR got/understood his world without a lot of unnecessary changes so at this point I'm taking his word for it. It's why he agreed to work with them.
As far as the disrespect of naming the gang "The Voodoo Boys". people should remember that these are gangs and their naming conventions aren't necessarily sensitive towards society's concerns. And this(last paragraph):
In a game of this magnitude, chances are there will be some good writing and well rounded characters and some embarrassing at best offensive at worst stuff. It's totally possible to have both, and quite likely looking at the Witcher series as an example.
Besides that, there is room for conflicting opinions on quality. Some people find Tarantinos dialogue fantastic, others find it stilted and pretentious. I don't think there is a clear right/wrong there.
What the hell is thisMaybe that xenophobia in cyberpunk has merit after all. First Deus Ex, now this.
I think if this were coming from another developer besides CDPR, with a known history of regressive outbursts and casual bigotry, I would me more inclined to give it a shot. I think there is a way racism and classism and transphobia could theoretically be handled as an examination of their effects in society, but it's much more likely in this case that CDPR just doesn't care and it won't be integrated in any kind of thoughtful way into the game.
Would be happy to be proven wrong, of course.
Would be happy to be proven wrong, of course.
Yeah I legit was never going to buy the game after that lol Worthy e3 trailer but this cements it
Would this depiction have been received well?
Like I said earlier, there are LAYERS of racism revolving around the Voodoo Boys, both in their current and original state. And I doubt the game will dive into either one.
Considering combat is usually the weakest part of CD PR games this isn't that surprising. Won't be surprised if they make changes like they did with The Witcher series
The stuff about poor representation of ethic characters just falls in line with all the other missteps they've had lately . They definitely need to find a way to fix this stuff
The stuff about poor representation of ethic characters just falls in line with all the other missteps they've had lately . They definitely need to find a way to fix this stuff
it's an open-world rpg. the game will be good or bad based on how well they build the world and integrate choices with the story
i think cdpr is in a position to throw a ton of resources at world detail and quests. it would be surprising if what the game is actually about ends up being bad
fwiw, shooting mechanics are pretty hard to screw up (especially in first-person, and especially for single-player). if you need better combat/controls to enjoy a cdpr game, this game has a high probability of achieving that
i think cdpr is in a position to throw a ton of resources at world detail and quests. it would be surprising if what the game is actually about ends up being bad
fwiw, shooting mechanics are pretty hard to screw up (especially in first-person, and especially for single-player). if you need better combat/controls to enjoy a cdpr game, this game has a high probability of achieving that
Great to hear. That's just an added bonus for me though tbh, it's the world and the stories I can't wait for.
It would not shock me that the twist with Voodoo Boys is they are white people in black bodies like uploading there brain into them trying to appropriate the culture even more extremely. Especially if you look at the original description so V mocking them with that line be amused not shitty but who knows yet
Good shooting mechanics are arguably easier to pull of than good third person combat. Call of Duty 2 kind of locked down what makes a good feeling shooter (impactful enemy hit animations, notable hitmarker sound, visual hitmarkers, reasonable TTK, weapon specific predictable recoil) , and all CDPR had to do was copy that.
Then again, bad combat is the absolute least of this game's problems right now.
Could be interesting to see. But that's like extreme black-facing.
As for now, i'm in wait and see mode for the game. I have concerns, sure, but i want to see with my own eyes. I know internet and i know you can't really trust hot takes of people regarding something you can't see. And context is king regardless or how things can look like.
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That would be an incredible twist lol, future tech Get Out. but I think they're playing it straight with the Haitian stereotypes. Really hoping theres some nuance in here but we'll see
Either way everything I hear and see about this game aside from a few questionable issues makes me super hyped for it.
That would be an incredible twist lol, future tech Get Out. but I think they're playing it straight with the Haitian stereotypes. Really hoping theres some nuance in here but we'll see
Either way everything I hear and see about this game aside from a few questionable issues makes me super hyped for it.
Games tend to get passes for mediocre to poor design decisions by reviewers and gamers alike a lots. Latest being, that comes to my mind, RDR 2 and its control design. If combat is serviceable in 77 then ye, a lots of people will look past it.
People talk that the bossfights were the worst part of Human Revolution. Nah. This was.
Did they ever came out about this certain caracter? And there were more coloured caracters in the game right? How were they handled?
Okay now we're in deep end territory.
That's the difference between playing the game and looking. Lots of folks said the combat in W3 looked dynamic in the demos, but yet the opposite is said now.
no
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Wouldn't surprise me if they genuinely put in effort in good faith to include representation such as the Haitians, hired authentic VAs, had them speak Creole which you only get subtitles for IF you have the appropriate upgrade(which is great because it's immersive and shows respect for the language) and it still manages to blow up in their face somehow.
Hopefully some of it gets clearer when we see the E3 demo.
Hopefully some of it gets clearer when we see the E3 demo.
Square Enix PR put out a complete non-apology.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/kotaku...t-npc-in-deus-ex-human-revolution-5836692/amp
Deus Ex: Human Revolution is a fictional story which reflects the diversity of the world's future population by featuring characters of various cultural and socioeconomic backgrounds. While these characters are meant to portray people living in the year 2027, it has never been our intention to represent any particular ethnic group in a negative light.
And if you're wondering why their feet wasn't held to the fire more over it, people forget just how fucking shit games and games media was about being socially responsible in 2011. Like... people definitely called it out, but it wasn't treated like a big stink around the game.
There were other POC in the game, including black characters but most were minor quest characters. There's a long couple sections where you go to Hengsha, but I am hesitant to comment on how that bit might have aged.
Okay Thanks
I cant remember either tbh. Played the game at release and only remember i loved it... except the bossfights tho.
What's with CDPR and mediocre, unsatisfyung combat? Do they not know how physics work?
I can tolerate weak melee in Witcher 3 but FPS? At least copy Call of Duty or Apex Legend's gun play, or anything.
I can tolerate weak melee in Witcher 3 but FPS? At least copy Call of Duty or Apex Legend's gun play, or anything.
I thought you wanted impactful gunplay and not some weak ass shit...
Keyword "at least"
From the sound of it I doubt Cyberpubk's gunplay is anywhere near those.
TBH it's just one article out of dozens that say otherwise. Don't get hung up on it.
Because one preview says that? You have dozens others that say the gunplay is from good to even fantastic, so why do you believe so firmly that one specific preview? And even then, you have 50 minutes gameplay from last year, you can make your opinion based on what you see there.. no one from the journalists played so far the game, so maybe it's best to think for yourself for now, hmmm? We are going to see atleast this new 50 minute gameplay segment in August or September, so again, maybe wait first before you can say how the shooting/gameplay looks and feels? Or is common sense not used in this days?
No rpg shooter (more emphasis on the rpg) remotely is. Have you played the deus ex sequels or Fallout games. That's the barometer you should be looking at for this game
And I doubt it's as weak as Fallout, or I should hope not. It will prolly be decent.
It's really surprising that they are not capable of doing good gunplay, there's lots and lots of good recent FPS to use as inspiration.
But tbh I never expected good gameplay from CDPR, they will deliver something decent and people will think that it is the best game ever (they already did) , so maybe they don't think that they need to offer a good gameplay experience.
But tbh I never expected good gameplay from CDPR, they will deliver something decent and people will think that it is the best game ever (they already did) , so maybe they don't think that they need to offer a good gameplay experience.
Theres been a decent number of posts now where people are saying Cyberpunk seems to miss all the deeper themes that makes cyberpunk as a genre. I think its a fair assumption if you've just been watching the trailers and thats it. We've seen very little of the game and what they have decided to show us has been a lot of flash and cool shit without much of a hint of what really makes cyberpunk tick. But if you've been paying attention they've been talking about their intention to do Cyberpunk justice since they've been talking about this game publicly.
First, back in 2013 they did that infamous Power Point presentation where they said CP77 would be first person and third person. Back then they announced their tagline for the game which was "Style Over Substance", which is also the motto for the P&P game itself. Its not so much about the design philosophy but the philosophy that the world of Cyberpunk inhabits. In a place where the individual has so little power in the face of a corporate dystopia AND cybernetic modifications are the norm, how one presents themselves is above all else. Which is why all the characters we've seen so far have been over the top. In a way everyone is performing a more dramatic version of themselves in order to stand out. This approach and style might not jive well with your own personal tastes, but at least they're going for it.
Then theres been interview after interview where people from different parts of the team have said again and again how much they're not shying away from cyberpunk's themes. Even Keanu Reeves himself, THE cyberpunk actor, has spoken about the interesting questions and answers the game makes you play out.
Even in the gameplay trailer from last year we see hints of cyberpunk dystopia. The naked woman you save has "Trauma Team Platinum" status. Which is literally a private ambulance that saves you only if you have the money to dish out, meaning only the rich can get proper medical treatment in this world.
Its not like CDPR are new to this RPG thing either. TW3 didn't sell because CDPR got lucky. They have a reputation and its been built on how damn good they are at world-building with attention to detail. TW1 wasn't known for its graphics, it damn sure wasn't known for its combat, it was its writing and how well realized their worlds are.
First, back in 2013 they did that infamous Power Point presentation where they said CP77 would be first person and third person. Back then they announced their tagline for the game which was "Style Over Substance", which is also the motto for the P&P game itself. Its not so much about the design philosophy but the philosophy that the world of Cyberpunk inhabits. In a place where the individual has so little power in the face of a corporate dystopia AND cybernetic modifications are the norm, how one presents themselves is above all else. Which is why all the characters we've seen so far have been over the top. In a way everyone is performing a more dramatic version of themselves in order to stand out. This approach and style might not jive well with your own personal tastes, but at least they're going for it.
Then theres been interview after interview where people from different parts of the team have said again and again how much they're not shying away from cyberpunk's themes. Even Keanu Reeves himself, THE cyberpunk actor, has spoken about the interesting questions and answers the game makes you play out.
Even in the gameplay trailer from last year we see hints of cyberpunk dystopia. The naked woman you save has "Trauma Team Platinum" status. Which is literally a private ambulance that saves you only if you have the money to dish out, meaning only the rich can get proper medical treatment in this world.
Its not like CDPR are new to this RPG thing either. TW3 didn't sell because CDPR got lucky. They have a reputation and its been built on how damn good they are at world-building with attention to detail. TW1 wasn't known for its graphics, it damn sure wasn't known for its combat, it was its writing and how well realized their worlds are.
I think you make a good point. The problem is the traditional cyberpunk themes don't sell, but the flash and cool they've been showing does. The same goes for the cover art.
This is actually indicative of CDPR's marketing knowhow. They know what sells.