Jul 7, 2023
3,503

A user on Reddit tested Borderlands 2 with a 9800X3D and RTX 5090 and they said this:

It works in BL2 if you force it on like you would with AMD cards, but it runs terrible. Got drops to below 60 FPS by just standing and shooting a shock gun at a wall.


This is expected behavior as 32-bit CUDA applications are deprecated on GeForce RTX 50 series GPUs: https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5615/

NVIDIA Support


CUDA Driver will continue to support running 32-bit application binaries on GeForce RTX 40 (Ada), GeForce RTX 30 series (Ampere), GeForce RTX 20/GTX 16 series (Turing), GeForce GTX 10 series (Pascal) and GeForce GTX 9 series (Maxwell) GPUs. CUDA Driver will not support 32-bit CUDA applications on GeForce RTX 50 series (Blackwell) and newer architectures.

Basically this means games that had 32-bit PhysX support will have potentially lower performance (waiting for testing) now if you enable PhysX on a 50-series GPU. This includes popular games such as:
  • Borderlands 2 (EDIT: Borderlands 1 was always CPU PhysX, so it shouldn't make a difference)
  • Mirror's Edge
  • Batman: Arkham City
  • BioShock Infinite (Edit; this title was always CPU PhysX)
  • Bulletstorm I don't think this one is GPU accelerated
  • Batman: Arkham Origins
  • Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag
and many more...

I'm expecting this to be the first step towards Nvidia starting to deprecate support for legacy PC titles. I imagine the drivers are pretty complex now with having to support titles from the last 20 or so years.

EDIT: I think I have found a complete list of 32-bit PhysX games that were GPU or PPU accelerated in some fashion, so I have compiled them here and I will add performance testing data people come up with just to see whether using the CPU for PhysX gives an acceptable level of performance in these titles:

EDIT2: I removed the PPU-only accelerated PhysX titles because I believe they can't be GPU accelerated


TitleRelease dateType of accelerationPhysX effectsPerformance impact of CPU PhysX
Monster Madness: Battle for Suburbia12-Jun-07GPU or PPUgameplay physics
Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 228-Jun-07GPU or PPUdebris simulation, dynamic tearable cloth, dynamic tree and plant simulation, particle effects, additional level with destructible environments
Crazy Machines 215-Oct-07GPU or PPUfluid simulation
Unreal Tournament 319-Nov-07GPU or PPUadditional levels
Warmonger: Operation Downtown Destruction29-Nov-07GPU or PPUdestructible environments, dynamic tearable cloth, particle physics
Hot Dance Party31-Mar-08GPU
QQ Dance2008-05GPU
Hot Dance Party II5-Aug-08GPU
Sacred 2: Fallen Angel7-Nov-08GPUparticle physics, dynamic leaves and rocks
Cryostasis: Sleep of Reason5-Dec-08GPU or PPUfluid simulation, particle physics, spark effectsIt runs considerably worse with CPU PhysX. See here
Mirror's Edge13-Jan-09GPU or PPUdebris and glass shard simulation, dynamic tearable cloth, spark effects, dynamic fog and steamConsiderable impact to 0.1% lows with PhysX running on the CPU, testing here.
Armageddon Riders2-Jun-09GPUdebris simulation, spark and particle effects
Darkest of Days8-Sep-09GPUdebris simulation, dynamic fog and smoke, dynamic leaves
Batman: Arkham Asylum15-Sep-09GPU or PPUdynamic fog and steam, dynamic tearable cloth and cobwebs, spark effects, dynamic paper and leaves, additional rigid bodies, destructible environmentsMajor hit to performance with CPU PhysX with the 7700X
Sacred 2: Ice & Blood2-Oct-09GPUparticle physics, dynamic leaves and rocks
Shattered Horizon4-Nov-09GPU
Star Trek DAC12-Nov-09GPUdebris simulation
Metro 203316-Mar-10GPUdebris simulation, dynamic smoke
Dark Void21-Apr-10GPUdynamic smoke, particle physics
Blur28-May-10GPU
Mafia II24-Aug-10GPUadditional debris (up to 10,000 pieces at a time), dynamic cloth, dynamic smoke, dynamic destruction
Hydrophobia: Prophecy9-May-11GPUfluid simulation
Jianxia 319-May-11GPU
Alice: Madness Returns14-Jun-11GPUdebris and particle simulation, destructible environments, fluid simulation, various types of dynamic particles (weapon effects, smoke, etc.)
MStar30-Jun-11GPU
Batman: Arkham City8-Nov-11GPUdynamic fog and steam, dynamic bank notes, posters etc., additional rigid bodies, destructible environments, cloth simulation, debris and particle effectsFairly significant performance decrease with CPU PhysX. Significant hit to 1% and 0.1% lows. Testing can be found here
755416-Dec-11GPUrigid body simulation, vehicle simulation, destructible environments, cloth simulation
Depth Hunter7-Feb-12GPU
Deep Black1-Mar-12GPU
Gas Guzzlers: Combat Carnage22-May-12GPU
The Secret World3-Jul-12GPU
Continent of the Ninth (C9)13-Sep-12GPUgameplay physics, destruction
Borderlands 218-Sep-12GPU or PPUvarious types of dynamic particles (weapon effects, smoke, etc.), tearable environmental cloth like flags and banners, interactive SPH fluids, ForceFields effects affecting particles and cloth
Passion Leads Army7-Dec-12GPU
QQ Dance 22012-Q4GPU
Star Trek23-Apr-13GPU
Mars: War Logs26-Apr-13GPU
Metro: Last Light14-May-13GPUphysically simulated particles, SPH based smoke and fog simulation, interactive cloth objects, dynamic forcefields
Rise of the Triad31-Jul-13GPUparticle effects (impact debris and weapon effects), destructible environments
The Bureau: XCOM Declassified20-Aug-13GPUparticle effects based on APEX Turbulence, cloth simulation
Batman: Arkham Origins25-Oct-13GPUdynamic fog and steam, dynamic bank notes, posters etc., additional rigid bodies, destructible environments, cloth simulation, spark and particle effectsDidn't support the highest PhysX setting via the CPU. So in this title it seems like it's impossible to use the highest settings with a 50-series or newer GPU
Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag29-Oct-13GPUparticle effects via APEX Particles, particle shadows, volumetric smoke, turbulence
Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel14-Oct-14GPU or PPUvarious types of dynamic particles (weapon effects, smoke, etc.), tearable environmental cloth like flags and banners, interactive SPH fluids, ForceFields effects affecting particles and cloth
 
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Ja-

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
1,107
This sucks. The best thing about PC gaming is backwards compatibility, and now nvidia wants take that away
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
20,346
I think at least some of these games have had major issues on recent drivers prior to this anyway.

Still a shame. But I think it's all still optional stuff, the games can be played fine.

I imagine modders will eventually come up with a workaround.
 

Vexii

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
3,415
UK
Can't wait to see how people end up defending Nvidia and their trillions of dollars with this decision.
 

NESpowerhouse

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,008
Virginia
pretty sure there were already ways around this by just deleting/replacing the old physx .dll's

EDIT: actually now that I think about it, it may not work anymore given that there would be no 32-bit dll's to fall back on anymore. You wouldn't be able to call a 64-bit .dll from a 32-bit executable. In the past, a game like mirror's edge would come packaged with a version of PhysX that ended up becoming deprecated over time, and people would get around this by deleting the .dll's in the game folder and forcing the game to use your system's drivers instead.
 
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Duxxy3

Member
Oct 27, 2017
25,918
USA
I still play Bulletstorm and Bioshock Infinite... whelp, I'm not getting a 5xxx series anyhow.
 

Zombegoast

Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,484
Surely they should have made this clear.

What are you losing in these games by disabling PhysX?

A living breathing world that game today struggles to do for better shadows and reflections

rpJCBT.gif


giphy.gif


9FcvYCq.gif
 

caff!!!

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,166
Considering the 50 series had some huge changes to the cuda cores, it doesn't shock me 32 bit cuda support was removed.
Surely they should have made this clear.

What are you losing in these games by disabling PhysX?
Fancy object physics and fluid dymanics on par with modern game engines
 

Freshmaker

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,818
Finally I have an excuse to toss in a 2080 with a 10090 for max performance several years from now.
 

sidephasing

Member
Dec 17, 2021
572
you know whats fucking crazy is i was actually interested in upgrading this year and part of the reason was so i could finally play arkham knight with good performance and physx on high, guess that dream is dead lmfao
 
OP
OP
RandomlyRandom67
Jul 7, 2023
3,503
How does that run on modern CPUs?

I don't have any objective data to provide, but the person who made the Reddit post tested Borderlands 2 with their 13900KS and 5090 and they said this:

It works in BL2 if you force it on like you would with AMD cards, but it runs terrible. Got drops to below 60 FPS by just standing and shooting a shock gun at a wall.
 

Antipode

Member
Jul 25, 2019
614
I recall reading that the PhysX effects that were allowed by Nvidia to run in CPU mode were limited and looked worse than the GPU-powered version (while also running terribly). This seems like a pretty big loss.
 

TeenageFBI

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,601
PhysX is legitimately cool, I hope there's still a way to run that stuff on 50-series cards, even if it requires mods or brute-forcing with a high end CPU.
 

Jebusman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,782
Halifax, NS
I remember the days of running a dedicated card for PhysX. Wonder if keeping an older low-end GPU around would still allow you to offload it.

Mirror's Edge was like, the defining use case of PhysX for me. It was the first time I ever had a PC with high end parts relative to the timeframe(Core 2 Quad Q6600 and SLI 8800GTs). Running the game on one card while the other did PhysX work. I'd just watch glass shatter all day long. I eventually stuck in an 8800GTS as a third card so I could maintain SLI and still have dedicated PhysX.

PC gaming was cool back then.
 

LordRuyn

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,711
DXVK to the rescue?

With PhysX off on the 5090, I can dip below my native refresh (240 Hz) on stock DX9 just running around Sanctuary with nothing going on, with DXVK I hold steady at 240 FPS at all times.

Still, this fucking sucks, what the hell Nvidia? I shouldn't be surprised really...
 

Madjoki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,434
Nvidia keeps finding new ways to fuck up.

you know whats fucking crazy is i was actually interested in upgrading this year and part of the reason was so i could finally play arkham knight with good performance and physx on high, guess that dream is dead lmfao

Arkham Knight is 64bit, shouln't be affected.
 

Soi-Fong

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,198
Illinois
I'm on a 9800X3D and a 5090 FE. Curious to see how Bioshock Infinite runs if I attempt to have phyx running on that game.
 
OP
OP
RandomlyRandom67
Jul 7, 2023
3,503
I'm on a 9800X3D and a 5090 FE. Curious to see how Bioshock Infinite runs if I attempt to have phyx running on that game.
It would be cool if you could do some testing if you have the time. I'm also curious to see Mirror's Edge performance

I'm also wondering if running PhysX on the CPU impacts the effects at all vs. GPU
 

thepenguin55

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,783
For what it's worth the physX support in Arkham Asylum is questionable. The way that cape flaps around is a little funky and it tanks the performance of the game so you're better off not even turning that on anyway.

While there are definitely good examples of PhysX, a lot of it was getting shitty performance for a very little in return. Doesn't mean I celebrate them getting rid of support for it but I also wouldn't overstate how good and important physX is. lol.
 

Ostron

Member
Mar 23, 2019
2,698
I remember the days of running a dedicated card for PhysX. Wonder if keeping an older low-end GPU around would still allow you to offload it.

Mirror's Edge was like, the defining use case of PhysX for me. It was the first time I ever had a PC with high end parts relative to the timeframe(Core 2 Quad Q6600 and SLI 8800GTs). Running the game on one card while the other did PhysX work. I'd just watch glass shatter all day long. I eventually stuck in an 8800GTS as a third card so I could maintain SLI and still have dedicated PhysX.

PC gaming was cool back then.
The thing with keeping a low end GPU around was that a newer card would be bottlenecked by the PhysX card, making it not worth it in the end. Probably still better using the CPU though. It was not worth using a 750ti with a 1080!

I wonder if you could make a case for it here, keep a 10-20-30 series card slotted in for legacy PhysX on your 5090. :'D

Somebody needs to find the best $ to performance value for those sweet Mirror's Edge particles and cloth.
 

Deleted member 125398

Sep 6, 2022
4,152
Does this mean that certain games will run worse or that they will stop running at all?
 

defaltoption

Plug in a controller and enter the Konami code
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
12,651
Austin
How was this not spoken about a bunch during launch this is a pretty big deal for long term game playability. Hopefully review channels scream this loud to get the awareness out even if the impact is only older games.

It's not like people are gonna have an old gpu dedicated to old stuff hanging around as a dedicated phsyx card.
 

senj

Member
Nov 6, 2017
9,208
How was this not spoken about a bunch during launch this is a pretty big deal for long term game playability.
It's not like you can't play the game anymore, or can't enable PhysX in them. It just runs the PhysX calculations on the CPU now instead of the GPU, which in most of these games is pretty much indistinguishable. Hence nobody even noticed for weeks.
 

defaltoption

Plug in a controller and enter the Konami code
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
12,651
Austin
It's not like you can't play the game anymore, or can't enable PhysX in them. It just runs the PhysX calculations on the CPU now instead of the GPU, which in most of these games is pretty much indistinguishable. Hence nobody even noticed for weeks.
CPUs are horrible for physx, it's likely it wasn't widely noticed because the thousand cards in the wild aren't being used to benchmark Borderlands 2.

The problem isn't that they don't support it anymore either, it's that it wasn't brought up, this was clearly meant to be a silent update so people don't get mad.
 

Pheonix1

Banned
Jun 22, 2024
796
User Thread-Banned: Trolling
Sounds like a first world problem, oh no, I can only run bioshock infinite at 120fps instead of 300fps on my $2000 gpu! Oh no!