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phisheep

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes
Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,760
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Rugby is a rugged, tough, elegant game. It may only be the national sport of Georgia, Madagascar, New Zealand, Samoa, Tonga and Wales (and Fiji if you count the 7-a-side version), but it is played all over the world. Seventy-nine international teams took part in qualifying tournaments around the world, plus twelve that qualified automatically from last time round in 2015. Twenty take part in the finals in Japan, split into four pools of five teams each.

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LINKS:
Official World Cup site
World Rugby Rankings
Squidge Rugby Youtube
Resetera Community Thread (usually rather quiet except during the Six Nations)

CeeCee is our resident qualified referee and as such is the final arbiter of stuff except when Scotland are playing.

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QUICK GUIDE FOR AMERICANS (USA is playing in Pool C)

Rugby is a close cousin of gridiron, if you take a time machine back to about 1880. Here's a quick run-down of the main differences.
  • 15 players a side instead of 11, but the playing field is a lot wider to make room for them
  • No specialist teams to be brought on and off – all the talents are on the pitch the whole time. There's a limit of 8 substitutes per team and mostly substitutions are permanent.
  • Play is more-or-less continuous except for a break at half time: no timeouts, no ad breaks, clock keeps going through set-pieces like scrums, kicks, lineouts. Minor injuries treated on the pitch while play continues.
  • Ball is actually in play 30-45 minutes as opposed to about 11 minutes in NFL
  • Line markings are kind of confusing. The 5-metre line is 5 metres from the side, the 10m line is 10m from the middle, the 15m line is 15m from the side, the 22m line is 22m from the goal line. Easiest to just ignore them because they don't mean what you think they do.
  • NO BLOCKING. You can only tackle the player who has the ball
  • NO FORWARD PASSING. Not ever. Well at least not by much so as the referee notices.
  • NO DOWNS RULE. A team can keep the ball as long as they can keep the ball. Earlier this year Wales took 35 phases before scoring against England.
  • NO HELMETS OR BODY ARMOUR
  • A player in front of the ball carrier or kicker is OFFSIDE and can't take part in the game. That's why you will sometimes see players standing still with their arms in the air – they are signaling to the referee that they know they are offside and didn't do it on purpose. It's a bit more complicated than that in set pieces, but that's enough to be going on with.
  • SCORING: a try is like a touchdown except you have to actually touch the ball down, that's 5 points. A conversion is like the extra point, but it must be kicked from opposite where the try was scored – so there's an advantage to scoring near the posts – 2 points. A drop goal is like a field goal from open play and worth three points, but it must be drop-kicked. A penalty goal is like a place-kicked field goal taken after an infringement by the other team – 3 points.
  • SCRUM: following a minor infringement both sets of forwards pack down and a scrum-half puts the balls in to restart play. All sorts of terrible things happen in scrums but you mostly won't see them.
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For each team here's the pre-tournament world ranking, pre-tournament odds and a link to Squidge Rugby's introductory video.

The top two teams from each pool go through to the quarter finals. Third place gets a free pass to the next World Cup in four years time in France.

POOL A
A year ago, you'd probably have expected Ireland to walk away with this pool with Japan second. But with Ireland's poor Six Nations and Scotland's second-half resurgence against England it could be any two from the top three. The matches between the attack-minded Scotland, Japan and Russia might well provide the most entertaining rugby of the tournament.​
POOL B
Blimey, look at those odds! Almost certainly it'll be New Zealand and South Africa going through, but we can't tell in which order. Those lower matches promise to be quite a bit of fun though.​

POOL C
Easily the most open pool in this tournament, with all the top three teams showing recent vulnerabilities. You'd expect England to walk it, except that assuming that England are going to walk it hasn't been an awfully good betting strategy over the last few years. Especially for England.​

POOL D
Probably Australia and Wales to go through in that order, but Fiji and Georgia might pull an upset or two.​

james-haskell-yellow-card-rugby-union-england_3423810.jpg


WHERE TO WATCH

Live in Japan is best of course, followed by a bar full of Rugby fans. Failing that, it'll be on TV.

Here's the official list of broadcasters.



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MATCH SCHEDULE

These are local dates and times in Japan.

It's kind of difficult to give times for games, since various daylight savings kick in and out during the course of the tournament. Very roughly, as the tournament is in Japan and games are played as early as 13:45 and end as late as 21:30 local time, they'll be on (give or take an hour) :
  • In Europe – mornings from about 5am
  • In North America (Eastern) daytime from about 10am
  • In North America (Pacific) afternoons from about 1pm
The official match schedule is here, including translating to your timezone.

20 Sep 19 19:45 - Pool A - Japan (30) v (10) Russia - After a nervous start Japan cut loose as Russia tired
21 Sep 19 13:45 - Pool D - Australia (39) v (21) Fiji - Aus reduced to scoring from rolling mauls after awesome Fiji first half
21 Sep 19 16:15 - Pool C - France (23) v (21) Argentina - Good France, Bad France, dropped goal and missed penalty. Tense!
21 Sep 19 18:45 - Pool B - New Zealand (23) v (13) South Africa - NZ took their opportunities as usual
22 Sep 19 14:15 - Pool B - Italy (47) v (22) Namibia - plucky underdogs lost to far better team
22 Sep 19 16:45 - Pool A - Ireland (27) v (3) Scotland - wet and slippery, Ireland's favourite conditions
22 Sep 19 19:15 - Pool C - England (35) v (3) Tonga - error-strewn victory, excellent ref, unlucky Tonga
23 Sep 19 19:15 - Pool D - Wales (43) v (14) Georgia - dominant Welsh start, but all square in second half
24 Sep 19 19:15 - Pool A - Russia (9) v (34) Samoa - Samoa kicked on after half-time after a sluggish start and two yellows
25 Sep 19 14:15 - Pool D - Fiji (27) v (30) Uruguay - What.A.Game! Fiji sloppy, Uruguay played their socks off.
26 Sep 19 16:45 - Pool B - Italy (48) v (7) Canada - bit of a steamrollering, this one.
26 Sep 19 19:45 - Pool C - England (45) v (7) USA - depleted (red card) USA scores (once, late) against the Imperial Power
28 Sep 19 13:45 - Pool C - Argentina (28) v (12) Tonga - (missed this one, I overslept)
28 Sep 19 16:15 - Pool A - Japan (19) v (12) Ireland - Phenomenal display by Japan. Shock of he tournament so far.
28 Sep 19 18:45 - Pool B - South Africa (57) v (3) Namibia - a traditional tonking
29 Sep 19 14:15 - Pool D - Georgia (33) v (7) Uruguay - dominant scrum dominates everything else
29 Sep 19 16:45 - Pool D - Australia (25) v (29) Wales - Super tussle. Mirrored the Aus v Fiji game but different outcome.
30 Sep 19 19:15 - Pool A - Scotland (34) v (0) Samoa - handling errors galore, but bonus point for Scotland
02 Oct 19 16:45 - Pool C - France (33) v (9) USA - only 3 points in it with 15 mins to go, then erratic France broke free
02 Oct 19 19:15 - Pool B - New Zealand (63) v (0) Canada - Juggernaut, meet mouse
-- HALFWAY STAGE --
03 Oct 19 14:15 - Pool D - Georgia (10) v (45) Fiji - Fiji back to their magical selves, look out Wales ...
03 Oct 19 19:15 - Pool A - Ireland (35) v (0) Russia - Ireland did this the hard way, way off their peak
04 Oct 19 18:45 - Pool B - South Africa (49) v (3) Italy - uncontested scrums, spear tackle, red card, and some spectacular stuff
05 Oct 19 17:00 - Pool C - England (39) v (10) Argentina - Is 6 tries over 14 men good though?
05 Oct 19 14:15 - Pool D - Australia (45) v (10) Uruguay - big expected win, but two yellows
05 Oct 19 19:30 - Pool A - Japan (38) v (19) Samoa - valiant Samoan defence not valiant enough.
06 Oct 19 13:45 - Pool B - New Zealand (71) v (9) Namibia - that went about as expected
06 Oct 19 16:45 - Pool C - France (23) v (21) Tonga - the tightest of tight squeaks, another 10 mins and Tonga might have stolen it.
08 Oct 19 19:15 - Pool B - South Africa (66) v (7) Canada - Thumped
09 Oct 19 13:45 - Pool C - Argentina (47) v (17) USA - Argentina played like Argentina ...
09 Oct 19 16:15 - Pool A - Scotland (61) v (0) Russia - ... Scotland played like Scotland at last ...
09 Oct 19 18:45 - Pool D - Wales (29) v (17) Fiji - ... and Wales played like Wales, 0-10 down after ten minutes. Super game though.
11 Oct 19 19:15 - Pool D - Australia (27) v (8) Georgia - compellingly watchable game for 60 mins before Australia cut free
12 Oct 19 13:45 - Pool B - New Zealand v Italy - CANCELLED BY TYPHOON 0-0 draw recorded
12 Oct 19 17:15 - Pool C - England v France - CANCELLED BY TYPHOON 0-0 draw recorded
12 Oct 19 19:45 - Pool A - Ireland (47) v (5) Samoa - super-tense goalline defense for the most part
13 Oct 19 12:15 - Pool B - Namibia v Canada - CANCELLED BY TYPHOON 0-0 draw recorded
13 Oct 19 14:45 - Pool C - USA (19) v (31) Tonga - Tight game, 7 points in it with 3 mins to go
13 Oct 19 17:15 - Pool D - Wales (35) v (13) Uruguay - Uruguay splendid, nailbiter up to 70 mins
13 Oct 19 19:45 - Pool A - Japan (28) v (21) Scotland - What a game. I'm speechless.
19 Oct 19 16:15 - QF1 - England (40) v (16) Australia - Australia shot themselves and were outplayed
19 Oct 19 19:15 - QF2 - New Zealand (46) v (14) Ireland - All Blacks utterly dominant
20 Oct 19 16:15 - QF3 - Wales (20) v (19) France - the good France turned up, super-tense game
20 Oct 19 19:15 - QF4 - Japan (3) v (26) South Africa - power prevailed in the end
26 Oct 19 17:00 - SF1 - England (19) v (7) New Zealand - the expected dominant performance, by the unexpected team
27 Oct 19 18:00 - SF2 - Wales (16) v (19) South Africa - kicked rucked and mauled into submission
01 Nov 19 18:00 - PLAYOFF - New Zealand (40) v (17) Wales - enjoyable game, a great attack beats a good defence though
02 Nov 19 18:00 - FINAL - England (12) v (32) South Africa - crushed.

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BanGy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
761
I'm deeply worried about the All Blacks going into this one 😭
 
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Any Questions

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,074
UK
It should be a good tournament. Not going to lie and must admit I am fairly clueless about who is in each team and statistics etc. However I love to watch and will have it on. Going to be a bit tricky with the time difference so imagine I will be watching while at work. Here's to a fun tournament and England for the win.
 
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phisheep

phisheep

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes
Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,760
I'm deeply worried about everyone! Every single team has shown some massive vulnerabilities over the last year or two - should be a super tournament.
 
Oct 31, 2017
5,632
Gotta be honest I prefer 7s as it's much easier to understand. Plus the US is much better in 7s than 15s. Even though I have been watching it for a couple of years I still get confused by some of the rules and calls.
 

Macadinho94

The Fallen
Nov 4, 2017
92
Heading over to Japan for Ireland's last 2 group stage games and the quarter final. Please let us finally get past the quarters!
 

Plinkerton

Member
Nov 4, 2017
6,060
Really feels like the most open World Cup in years (even if NZ are still clear favourites). I'm really excited about this and I think people will be surprised by how well this will be hosted by Japan. This is the first World Cup hosted outside of a traditional rugby nation and I think they'll absolutely smash it. Only downside is that most of the games are on really early or in the middle of the day here, but I guess that would be true for someone somewhere, no matter where you played.

For Wales, I feel like quarter finals are the minimum and based on the potential match ups, semis are realistic (Wales vs Eng in a World Cup quarter final would certainly be something...). After that it comes down to who plays best on the day and at the moment it feels like anyone could be beat anyone else in a one-off.
 

Soap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,186
I was at both the home warm up games for Wales, and although we only had one victory out of the four I am confident we can get out of the pool stages at the top at the very least.
 

Minilla

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,514
Tokyo
Got tickets for two games , scotland vs Ireland and austrailia vs Wales. Looking forward to this tourney, should be a cracker
 

Deleted member 42055

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Apr 12, 2018
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LOL just as I ordered All Blacks shorts off adidas ( they're on sale as is an old jersey). I was hoping someone would start an OK, I'm super looking forward to this. The springbok all black matchup in game one is mouth watering, worthy of a final with the form the teams are in. Will be rooting for NZ* ,RSA in that order then anyone but England lol. I am so glad it's so easy to find streams of this sport now, USA sports package is like $240 for the whole tournament which is just ridiculous. 2015 tourney was so annoying to try and watch.
* AB's fan since 04' when I was first introduced to Rugby when a club tweak was started my Senior year of high school
 

Deleted member 42055

User requested account closure
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Apr 12, 2018
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Oh and it's so refreshing that every team and pretty much every player has an Instagram account that they keep up with. Really there's never been a better time to love this sport, there is coverage everywhere online. Mammoth gains from 2015
 

Plinkerton

Member
Nov 4, 2017
6,060
LOL just as I ordered All Blacks shorts off adidas ( they're on sale as is an old jersey). I was hoping someone would start an OK, I'm super looking forward to this. The springbok all black matchup in game one is mouth watering, worthy of a final with the form the teams are in. Will be rooting for NZ* ,RSA in that order then anyone but England lol. I am so glad it's so easy to find streams of this sport now, USA sports package is like $240 for the whole tournament which is just ridiculous. 2015 tourney was so annoying to try and watch.
* AB's fan since 04' when I was first introduced to Rugby when a club tweak was started my Senior year of high school

I wouldn't be surprised at all if it actually was the final. They can't meet again in the knock out stages before the final and they're probably the top two favourites right now. I've got a sneaking feeling that this might be South Africa's year; they seem to be peaking at the right time.
 

CeeCee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,118
Cheers for the great thread Phi! :D

As Phi says, I'm our resident rugby referee. Happy to answer any questions about the laws, no matter how basic/complicated/bizarre!
 

CeeCee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,118
I'm really conflicted, because I want my Scotland to do well but I'm also kind of cheering for Japan.

My ideal scenario is we beat Ireland in our first game and then both us and Japan make it out of the group.
 

Minilla

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,514
Tokyo
I'm really conflicted, because I want my Scotland to do well but I'm also kind of cheering for Japan.

My ideal scenario is we beat Ireland in our first game and then both us and Japan make it out of the group.

Exactly my thoughts. Scotland and Japan through the group stage for me, the Irish can do one this WC
 

Deleted member 42055

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11,215
Cheers for the great thread Phi! :D

As Phi says, I'm our resident rugby referee. Happy to answer any questions about the laws, no matter how basic/complicated/bizarre!

Have you ever seen anything as strange as 6 nations I taly v England in 2017 when italy refused to commit to the ruck ? That was surreal to watch
 

CeeCee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,118
Have you ever seen anything as strange as 6 nations I taly v England in 2017 when italy refused to commit to the ruck ? That was surreal to watch

That was bizarre: I'd seen that tactic used before occasionally but never for a whole game like that!

In terms of other stuff that looks wrong but is completely legal, there's one obscure law that I once had to apply and ended up with some very irate players:

Imagine the ball is loose in-goal (for example, if it's been kicked there) and is resting on the ground. An attacking player whose feet are in touch dives on the ball and grounds it. If the ball was on the floor prior to him touching it (ie he has grounded it without taking possession of it), then a try is scored, even though the player is in touch.
 
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phisheep

phisheep

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes
Member
Oct 26, 2017
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Have you ever seen anything as strange as 6 nations I taly v England in 2017 when italy refused to commit to the ruck ? That was surreal to watch

Oddest thing I ever saw was the All Blacks putting up three-man scrums (front row only) and winning them . Of course, that was a very long time ago and the laws have changed.
 

Plinkerton

Member
Nov 4, 2017
6,060
Have you ever seen anything as strange as 6 nations I taly v England in 2017 when italy refused to commit to the ruck ? That was surreal to watch

Weirdest thing I ever saw in a rugby game was (I think) Scarlets vs Dragons a few years ago. Scarlets had a penalty from the tee but it looked like the fly half had missed the kick; however one of the Scarlets players was running after the ball and actually caught it and scored a try. The ref and linesmen weren't sure at first if the kick had gone over the posts so it went to TMO (if it had then it's a penalty and the try doesn't stand). You ended up with a situation where the attacking team were arguing to the ref that they'd missed their own kick so that they could claim the try instead. Just always seemed funny to me to see a team argue against having scored.

I think the try ended up being awarded.
 

Metalix

Member
Oct 28, 2017
883
Flying out next week to get into the mix in Japan, managed to secure tickets to six tests. Can't wait! No idea what Scoltand's strongest team looks like, though. Usually take the warm-up results with a fist of salt.
 

gosublime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,431
I'm really conflicted, because I want my Scotland to do well but I'm also kind of cheering for Japan.

My ideal scenario is we beat Ireland in our first game and then both us and Japan make it out of the group.

Exactly this - I love the way Japan play and it would be great for the game as a whole for Japan to get out the group. But being Scottish, I don't want it to be at our expense. I actually don't want Ireland out either - they aren't my favourite team for how they play but I appreciate how good they can be.

So excited about this World Cup - would love someone new to win, (obviously I'd love it to be Scotland) but I don't really want the threepeat. Cheers for the thread Phi and come on Scotland!
 

pulsemyne

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,640
Don't expect too much from Wales given their poor performances against Ireland. The last match, in particular, was worrying due to Ireland changing tactic after the break and Wales being unable to adapt.
 

Plinkerton

Member
Nov 4, 2017
6,060
Don't expect too much from Wales given their poor performances against Ireland. The last match, in particular, was worrying due to Ireland changing tactic after the break and Wales being unable to adapt.

Meh I wouldn't read to much into the warm ups to be honest, we've only fielded what I would consider to be a full strength team once and that was the game we won. Also we've been pretty poor in the warm ups before the last two World Cups too but have managed to turn up in the tournaments themselves.

I don't mean to downplay the significance of losing 3 out of 4 but I do think the results matter less in those games than (i) learning systems, combinations and who your best players are and (ii) not picking up too many injuries.
 
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phisheep

phisheep

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Oct 26, 2017
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Not too fussed about Wales - well, apart from the usual pre-tournament nerves. They are notoriously slow starters, both in matches (e.g. France in the 6N) and in tournaments. Getting a couple of losses out of the way early isn't a bad thing.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,654
I can't wait to have my hopes raised during the pool stage then crushed in the QF (Ireland). At least we got a half decent game in against Wales there. Still emotionally scarred from the England match.
 

Deleted member 42055

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Bought some AB shorts on sale from adidas to complete the kit. I look forward to wearing it alone on my couch since all the games are going to be late at night ( opener is at 3:45am California time LOL) and even if they weren't good luck finding a bar that's going to show rugby Ha
 

gosublime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,431
As far as I can tell, couple of reasons:

Most people want Japan to go through. They play some lovely rugby, have a great underdog story and are just easily likeable. That has to come at the expense of a team and that is most likely to be Scotland, as Ireland's ability to control a game negates Japan's tactics.

Also, Scotland are a bit of a bizarre team at the moment - they can play some amazing stuff but can also look like they've never touched a ball before. They also have the problem that their away record is pretty bad and that could be a factor in the final game of the pools - Scotland v Japan for what could be the final team to go through. (Although I've a feeling Samoa might have some say in all this as well)

Also, there is a bit of history - the last world cup Japan played Scotland three days after they had beaten SA, which kind of crystallised how rugby treats the Teir Two teams, with Japan being the first team to win three matches and not go through.

Also, of the Home Nations, it's pretty clear that Scotland are the worst at the moment. All in all, it can make Scotland the baddies at this World Cup if we knock out the hosts and people want to see Japan go through.
 

Oleander

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,589
My only desire is to see Ireland play a semi-final for the first time ever. It blows my mind that a team like Ireland, currently #1 in the World Rankings, has never won a quarter-final game in the World Cup.

Unfortunately, that quarter-final will likely be against the All-Blacks or South Africa, neither of which I would suggest are going to be accomodating to allowing this prolonged injustice to end. Merely getting out of the pools would be a sad farewell to Joe Schmidt, after all he has done for the team.

But as has been said, every team has shown significant vulnerabilities in ways I have never seen aligning with the World Cup. Southern hemisphere rugby was so dominant in 2015 in a way that doesn't appear to be true in 2019. Overall, I'm very much looking forward to these matches, and the impact of the timezone difference isn't nearly as bad as I had feared.
 

gosublime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,431
Ireland Scotland at 8:45 in the morning - no way am I playing any drinking game at that time.
 

Soap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,186
That's the thing. A lot of these games are on while I'm in work, so no drinking for me.
 
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phisheep

phisheep

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes
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Oct 26, 2017
4,760
Speed politics is moving at the moment, I feel like I posted the OT about a month too early. But only 6 days to go!
 

gosublime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,431
Just wait until someone asks how is the tournament still going on by the 2nd November.

Did not realise that if a Pool match is off due to a typhoon (not knock out matches) it apparently counts as a draw. So you could see a scoreline of New Zealand 0 Namibia 0.

Would be the most Scottish thing ever to get knocked out at the pool stages due to technically drawing with Russia.
 

LiquidSolid

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,731
I'm deeply worried about the All Blacks going into this one 😭
Why's that? I'm actually more confident than I was in 2015, as there were a lot of key players who went into that tournament out of form (Read, Savea and DC in particular). The prep for this year hasn't been great and, as usual, there have been some pretty big blows (Brodie missing the first half of the tournament and DMac's injury in particular) but I've seen enough to be encouraged. Dropping Franks, moving Ardie to 6 and not bringing Squire back (who honestly, was never a consistent performer despite the media hype) were the right moves. I am gutted for Jacobson's concussion issues though, I thought he had real potential to be our next starting blindside.

Having said all that, if we lose, we lose. I'd still be gutted but after winning two world cups back to back, it's a lot easier to deal with a failed campaign. Just so long as the loss isn't a total farce like the stupid fucking Cricket World Cup final.
 

weekev

Is this a test?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,215
Great OP, Can't wait. As a Scot I just hope we don't get embarassed by the host nation and make it out of the group. I reckon it will be won by a southern hemisphere team and wouldn't be surprised by an Aussie upset.
 

Shorty11857

Member
Oct 25, 2017
829
Flying out to Japan on Friday with tickets for Ireland Scotland and Ireland Russia so excited for the tournament
 

Benjamin

Member
Nov 11, 2017
154
Off to Japan next week too.

I have some random spare tickets for Georgia-Uruguay that I won't be attending due to reasons if anyone is interested in cheap tickets.