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Rumor: "AMD [...] is building Navi for the Sony PS5"

Bashteee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
416
Interesting read fromWCCFTECH: (<- link to full atricle)
Lisa packaged the graphics department neatly into Radeon Technologies Group and gave control of that to Raja Koduri, but at the same time devoted 2/3rds of the talent on-hand for RTG to develop the next semi-custom solution – which was Navi for Sony. The P&L of RTG was also not handed over to the group head and that meant they were effectively left with 1/3rd of the engineering talent devoted to making a graphics card for gamers and almost no control over their own finances.
Bad news for PC gamers though:
Navi 20 is the GPU that you are waiting for and will be a true high-end gaming GPU manufactured on the 7nm process by AMD. The downside? it won’t be coming anytime soon. In fact, our source stated it could take as long as 2021 before it sees the light of day.
Navi 10 (mainstream) is expected to hit 2H of 2019 or early 2020. The story seems plausible to me, but it is WCCFTECH, so take it with a hugh grain of salt. Nonetheless, if it's true, NVIDIA will have virtually no competition for an even longer time.

Postpone me to 2021 if old.
 
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Eylos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,890
I don't think 2021 for ps5 Will happen, with ALL this talk about next gen by Bethesda and v Microsoft
 

X1 Two

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,023
It's why we have been saying from the beginning that a PS5 in 2018 or 2019 is impossible.
 
Oct 29, 2017
1,100
I don't think 2021 for ps5 Will happen, with ALL this talk about next gen by Bethesda and v Microsoft
MS announced Scorpio/One X’s existance two years and 4 months before its release, which puts the next Box at Fall 2020.

There’s no way the guy would know that Navi 20 will not be ready for 2020.

I would bet Navi 20 is targeting a 2020 release along with the PS5 and Xbox Infinity.
 

nekomix

Member
Oct 30, 2017
226
Isn't Koduri at Intel right now at the helm of their graphics division? That's a huge thing to miss it.

Edit: Just read the link, he states that. So nice speculations but why prioritise only Sony and not MS? Only because more PS4 ?
 
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Jessie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,790
I don’t see how this points to 2021 for PS5. They’re not going to ship it with a super high end card. Navi 10 seems likely.

PS5 Pro might use Navi 20.
 

Deleted member 35598

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 7, 2017
6,350
Spain
2021 ? That would be such an opportunity for Microsoft and Nintendo.

Microsoft can have 1 or 2 years start and they would need big time in order to change things.

And Nintendo had pretty much one complete gen ( 4 years ) until the PS5. They can bring the Switch succesor the same year or a year after easily.

2021 ? I don’t see that happening.
 

ethomaz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,851
Santa Albertina
AMD didn't focus in high-end GPU market anymore... that is not news... they focus only in mainstream like Polaris first.

Said that yeap... PS5 and Next Xbox chip are being developed at full pace inside AMD... these machines will release late 2019 or late 2020.
 

VirtuaRacer

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
542
MS announced Scorpio/One X’s existance two years and 4 months before its release, which puts the next Box at Fall 2020.
Microsoft announced Scorpio at E3 2016. It released in 2017.

If we go by previous events, perhaps I'll be a Navi 15, all features from 10 and more upgrades from 20, but not fully there. Again, if we go by story isn't that what happened with the PS4?
The article says that "Navi 14 will follow Navi 10 soon after." So yes, similar to what transpired with PS4, you can bet that Mark Cerny is working with AMD directly to shape the chipset.
 
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gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,021
The article says PS5 is 'expected' in 2020. Whether that's something they heard, in terms of what AMD is targeting, or just their own guesswork, I'm not sure, but they seem to be saying that that's the timeline AMD is working on. edit - reading more, it seems that is what they hear AMD is working toward, that this is the deadline Sony's given them.

I think it's also interesting that PS5 seems to be the main driver for Navi development. The suggestion is that AMD's discrete GPU business isn't what dictates semi-custom work anymore, but the other way around now.

Navi 20 is a 2021 part, apparently. Navi 10 a 2019 part. So if this is all true, I guess PS5 is a Navi 10 bump-up or Navi 20 scale-down, depending on how small Navi 10 is, or commensurately how big Navi 20 is.
 
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Yerffej

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,963
MS announced Scorpio/One X’s existance two years and 4 months before its release, which puts the next Box at Fall 2020.

There’s no way the guy would know that Navi 20 will not be ready for 2020.

I would bet Navi 20 is targeting a 2020 release along with the PS5 and Xbox Infinity.
MS announced Scorpio a year and change out. Not two.
 

SolidSnakeUS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,929
How is it impossible? Navi 10 seems to be out next year and is rumored to have Vega 64 performance. That's probably what they are going to use for PS5.
If they can pull Vega 64 performance by the end of 2019, then fucking bravo Sony. Honestly, I am expecting the next system to come out by the end of 2019, as it fits in line with the 6 year console life before a new one. But I don't think this is a bad thing, as the architecture is still x86, everything should be easily BC.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,157
Navi 10 sounds like it will be ready for 2019. They arent going to put the cutting edge, fresh-out-of-R&D tech in a $399 box. PS5 will probably have some features if 20 but itll be 10... 2019 makes sense
 

Meelow

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,272
I want Switch 2 to use this just so we can have Nintendo say "Hey...Listen Navi's back!"
 

ffvorax

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,587
I expect PS5 to be revelead next year and coming in 2020, not before, not in 2021 (looks too late)... so probably will have not the Navi20 but Navi10, that is also plausible considering the cost...?
 

inspectah

Member
Oct 28, 2017
569
Germany
Navi is supposed to come out in H1/2019 and will be a midrange chip (hypothetical RX 680) like Polaris.
(Source (german): https://www.3dcenter.org/news/geruechtekueche-amds-navi-tritt-im-ersten-quartal-2019-mit-einer-midrange-loesung )

Speculation by Leonidas of 3dcenter (very well informed):
- the midrange-solution should reach performance of a GTX 1170/2070 and uses GDDR6-RAM
- 4096 shaders on 200-250mm² die size are possible on the 7nm node (Polaris was 230mm²)
- performance of a Vega 64 (+X%) with the powerconsumption of a RX 480 (150W) should be possible

Also, this is their latest roadmap from Computex:


This article is also pretty interesting:
https://www.pcworld.com/article/3279268/components-graphics/amds-new-graphics-engineer-pledges-yearly-gpu-releases-to-make-pcs-fun-again.html
 
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uncleniccius

Member
Nov 3, 2017
343
UK
The thing is, Navi 20 seems unlikely, I'm guessing Navi 14 would be possible(?), and the article implies that this would be ready sooner.
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,021
I expect PS5 to be revelead next year and coming in 2020, not before, not in 2021 (looks too late)... so probably will have not the Navi20 but Navi10, that is also plausible considering the cost...?
This article says:

Navi 10 (2019, 'Vega' levels of performance)
Navi 14 ('soon' after Navi 10)
PS5 (2020, some Navi variant)
Navi 20 (2021, high end)

PS5 will be some Navi configuration, probably not precisely like any PC part, but probably in and around Navi 10 or 14 perf I'd guess. Depends though.
 

Fafalada

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,444
It'd be fun if one of the makers went intel x86 with AMD GPU setup. Just so we can have endless arguments about single vs. multithreaded CPU performance next gen - this one was way too boring with CPUs being practically identical :P
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,021
It'd be fun if one of the makers went intel x86 with AMD GPU setup. Just so we can have endless arguments about single vs. multithreaded CPU performance next gen - this one was way too boring with CPUs being practically identical :P
Not to start probably misleading speculation, but if Sony is the main driver/consumer for Navi development, it does beg the question of where a MS contract fits in.

But maybe the author of the article doesn't have the full picture. Maybe 'Sony' is just shorthand for consoles in general, and both MS and Sony will be Navi clients. Or maybe MS is targeting a very different timeframe - by the sounds of it, Navi is using the bulk of AMD's engineering resources, so I'm not sure they could be developing another completely different solution simultaneously for another client. If MS is going AMD, and going for a similar timeframe, presumably it would have to be something Navi-based.
 

Hate

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,408
Isn't Koduri at Intel right now at the helm of their graphics division? That's a huge thing to miss it.

Edit: Just read the link, he states that. So nice speculations but why prioritise only Sony and not MS? Only because more PS4 ?
That’s basically all it needs. Doubt MS wouldn’t get their own custom solution. Besides xbox is moving away from traditional consoles and starting to dabble into PC space.
 

Lagspike_exe

Member
Dec 15, 2017
1,062
Navi 10 sounds like it will be ready for 2019. They arent going to put the cutting edge, fresh-out-of-R&D tech in a $399 box. PS5 will probably have some features if 20 but itll be 10... 2019 makes sense
That’s actually the principal way to design consoles. You take the latest, blessing edge, tech and then optimize the silicon footprint and TDP to pack it into a small box. That way, you get all the latest performance optimizations and features while having the same amount of transistors.
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,337
I hope they can still wait to 2021 for the best combo power/price. they don't need to rush it like the PS4 Pro.
 

StevieP

Member
Oct 27, 2017
610
Mainstream-Navi for next year is definitely a product that has its fingers and toes in consoles.
 
Feb 1, 2018
1,341
Europe
Îf it won't see the light of day before 2021 it won't be for any console. Hardware cycles don't work like that. There are other components to consider that have to work with this. This isn't a lego kit.
 

1.21Gigawatts

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,936
Munich
2021 ? That would be such an opportunity for Microsoft and Nintendo.

Microsoft can have 1 or 2 years start and they would need big time in order to change things.

And Nintendo had pretty much one complete gen ( 4 years ) until the PS5. They can bring the Switch succesor the same year or a year after easily.

2021 ? I don’t see that happening.
I dont think Microsofts newly expanded 1st party department will be fast enough to really capitalize on a significant headstart of next gen xbox over ps5.

Launching early doesnt do much when multiplats are cross gen and still held back by massive last gen userbase and exclusives arent ready yet.
 

Fafalada

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,444
If MS is going AMD, and going for a similar timeframe, presumably it would have to be something Navi-based.
But Navi is a GPU part - and we already have real-world example of Intel building Intel CPU with a Vega? integrated. Ie. if Intel was hypothetically trying to "steal" a CPU contract they could go out of the way of taking the engineering overhead of integrating the parts (not saying I have any idea if that could ever be profitable for them - but we've seen stranger things than that in both PS2/XBox and PS3 era chip designs - both times crippling the pricing structure of one of the parties involved).

But I admit I'm just being selfish and want to see fanboy mudslinging entertainment it would inevitably result in.
 

StereoVSN

Member
Nov 1, 2017
4,515
Eastern US
I can see PS5 come out in late 2019 as long as 7nm process is stable and GDDR6 is cheap enough to produce in sufficient quantity.

That said 2020 is probably more likely at this stage.
 

Deleted member 35598

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 7, 2017
6,350
Spain
I dont think Microsofts newly expanded 1st party department will be fast enough to really capitalize on a significant headstart of next gen xbox over ps5.

Launching early doesnt do much when multiplats are cross gen and still held back by massive last gen userbase and exclusives arent ready yet.
A year headstart helped the 360 big time. And maybe Microsoft has deals in place with some 3rd party devs to bring exclusive content on the Next Xbox. That would leave time for the new studios to get up to speed.
 
Oct 30, 2017
29
This article says:

Navi 10 (2019, 'Vega' levels of performance)
Navi 14 ('soon' after Navi 10)
PS5 (2020, some Navi variant)
Navi 20 (2021, high end)

PS5 will be some Navi configuration, probably not precisely like any PC part, but probably in and around Navi 10 or 14 perf I'd guess. Depends though.
Yeah, that's how I read the article. I've no idea why people are talking about the PS5 in 2021 and "head starts".
 

behOemoth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,401
How is it impossible? Navi 10 seems to be out next year and is rumored to have Vega 64 performance. That's probably what they are going to use for PS5.
We really should keep our expectations in check. Vega perfomance could also mean to be shlightly less powerful than a VEGA 56 (TDP ~210W), which imo is still a pretty big boost compared to the PS4.